Advice needed for class choice: "Paladins" compared to "Berserkers"

[Ael]

Hi Folks.... Just restarted a character on Crushbone/Qeynos, and getting close to that magic point where I'll have to decide which path to walk. I've narrowed down to "Warrior" (leading to 'Zerker) or "Crusader" (leading to Paladin).  Ah, choices of committment that cannot be undone are always a worry..... I've compared the two classes using the boards, and examined the class spell lists on caster's realm and still can't decide. I'd hate to have to re-roll later on if I'm unhappy - ie, I make a hasty uninformed choice and it turns out to be the wrong one. In EQ1, I used to play a Shaodwknight. Quite often I was either puller, or MT. But SK in EQ1 is totally unlike anything in EQ2 (including EQ2 SKs). EQ1 SK had a LOT of different strategies available - invis, self buffs, great pullers, and the taps could (if used tactically) change the tide of battle. Lousy DPS, though, even with the fixes they didn't really compare with other melees. The problem with being set up for being a great MT is that if the group already had a warrior that could take nearly as much abuse as you could, and someone who could pull, there was nothing you were able to add. So pickup groups would be hard to find (until PoP came out). So in EQ2, I'm looking for the class that "fits me" best, or the role(s) that I can enjoy playing. That's down to Berserker, or Paladin. 1. I enjoy having choices of tactics / strategies, so I can be creative on how I play my character. 2. Able to fill multiple roles, not necessarily at the same time. (Roles = MT, secondary assist, puller, DPS, whatever). In EQ1, I got squeezed into MT or "Raid puller" roles, and had a hard time getting groups or doing any other role. I really enjoyed the MT / Puller role - but it made it a pain to get xp groups... I'd rather not get squeezed into roles that lock me out of anything else. 3. Soloability - it's nice to have options if I can't find a decent pickup group, or if I'm farming for a quest or something. 4. Aggro - I like to have complete control of the aggro, and be able to take it when it's focused on me (this might be the main deciding factor, but if I have no dps worth mentioning, then it's pointless. I learned that from EQ1). Any suggestions on how Paladins and Berserkers compare in the above qualities ? Any advice is welcomed. I think I'll have to decide tonight. Right now here's what I'm thinking (some of this from chats with other players, so some of it may be incorrect): (I'm likely to be playing with a couple friends semi-regularly, ones a cleric the other is likely to be a mage) If I pick Paladin: 1. Soloing : Heals would cut downtime. 2. Main melee of the group, when partnering : Decent DPS, fantastic meatsheild 3. Spells : Decent enough that there can be some creative strategies there. 4. Pickup groups with more melees : Able to contribute DPS, or able to function as MT. 5. ? Heals/Buffs : Secondary healer ? Does a cleric make a Paladin redundant ? 6. ? Able to play different roles, but require gear swapping to do so 7. Good aggro control, able to take aggro from other characters If I pick Berserker: 1. Soloing : High DPS , Good tanking, good soloability 2. Main melee of the group when partnering : High dps, and/or able to take the beating. 3. King of Aggro generation 4. ? Able to play different roles simply by changing around active buffs / effects. 5. ? Lots of berserkers, hard to get pickup groups 6. ? No powers to reduce downtime or help support the group 7. ? Less AC than paladins, can't MT as well on raids 8. ? Puller ability totally know Any comments on this list ? Getting the above cleared up should help me decide.

[Styk]

No Power to reduce downtime- Paladin's have worser power issues then berserkers Less AC then paladins?- I have more AC then some of the better equipt pallies in my guild + i can use tower shields, pallies cant Can't tank as well as Paladins on raids - ummm we hold better agro then paladins so where did you get that one from as well? Buddy get some of your facts straight before you make comparisons

[Norgoz]

Greetings Aelyi. Both classes can be versatile, it all depends on what kind of role you want to play. Paladins can be a group's MT or play a supporting role with wards and backup heals, and even a group heal now and then if needed. Lay of Hands is an instant heal that could save you, or your MT's life if the situation called for it. They have a couple group buffs for +HP or +AC, I can't say for sure which or both, I don't group with many Crusaders. Berserkers have 2 main roles, tanking and damage dealing. They can tank good and hold agro even better. If you need a 6th group member but with the group setup you have a normal DPS wouldn't work if MT were to drop or something went wrong, a Berserker can fill that role and backup tank and still do decent DPS. Don't get me wrong, however, Berserkers are NOT good DPS until 30+ when we get a group +MaxHP 8% Haste buff and our activatable Berserk at 34 (I might add this only lasts 10 seconds, however, and has a recast of 90 seconds). Our main boost to our DPS is at 37 when we get Tides of War. It's a group buff that raises C/P/S skills of group members, 43% self-haste, and chance to berserk on each hit. Addressing your bullets now. Paladin: 1. Of course it would, but in EQ2 there isen't much downtime to begin with. 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. Able to contribute DPS, but as mentioned, not much. MT, yes, but a Warrior can tank better (Warriors naturally have more HP and stronger agro abilities than Knights). 5. I think Crusaders get 2 or 3 buffs, and 1 ward. A Priest makes a Paladin pretty much obselete, yes. 6. Yes 7. Good agro control, however, as mentioned, Warriors have much better agro on EQ2. Berserker: 1. Yes. I can say that, as a Berserker, I can solo very well on green/blue group encounters and yellow/orange single encounters. 2. Yes 3. Berserkers are an agro magnet, enough said. 4. We can change roles, but no need to switch our buffs (refering to self-buffs) 5. Not true. Anyone can be any class, it takes a real player to stand out from the ordinary. You shouldn't have any trouble getting pickup groups, and if you do well, you'll likely hear form those people again. 6. Not true. We have 3 main Group Buffs and get more as we level. I currently have 4. 1 - +STR buff; 2 - +Max HP buff; 3 - 8% Haste +Max HP (yes, both +HP buffs stack) 4 - +Crushing/Piercing/Slashing buff, granting Berserker a chance to berserk. (At 37 you get the 43% self-haste tacked onto this as well) 7. I have no idea where you hear this from, but Warriors outrank Crusaders in the tanking role. 8. Tanks are almost always the puller in the usual pickup group. In EQ2 mobs normally hit too hard for another class to risk pulling. Hopefully my ranting has helped you make your decision. I am currently a Lv37 Berserker and have grouped with Paladins on accasion, and my brother plays a Lv24 ShadowKnight, so I don't know everything about Paladins of EQ2. I played a Berserker, Paladin, and Rogue on EQ1 so along with my EQ2 knowledge I can give you a decent idea of what to expect. If you have anymore questions please feel free to state them and I will try to reply when I can.

Message Edited by Norgoz on 04-20-2005 09:54 AM

[Taik]

At only 25 Zerk-ness I have to agree, once I get agro I can't lose it unless I stop attacking.  I also solo VERY well.   Oranges give me some trouble  in groups but yellows are no sweat solo.  I like being able to Tank and DPS.  Hell, with a Steel Imbued Longsword I do as much damage as any 2 dual weild weapons I've found.  And I can wear my nice Fir Towershield.

 

All this being said, I've seen plenty of paladins having a ball playging them.  Don't let anyone on either board tell you one class or another sucks.  Paladins are more helpful, Zerkers more hurtful.  I think both classes are pretty balanced.  I haven't played a Pally enough to know how good they are tanking.  You have opened a post in that forum I presume?

[Taik]

Also Styker , He was asking questions!   Don't jump down his throat.

 

?Less AC than Paladins, less able to tank on raids

 

-that means he wants to know if its true.  How about being helpful instead of condescending, and from a 50 level zerk too...

[Ael]

Hi Norgoz - Thanks for the excellent tips ! It looks like Paladins are more of "tank - support -dps" , and berserkers are more "tank - dps - support" . So I think my choice is going to be "Berserkers", based on the corrections (backed up with solid information) that I've seen here. I still want to see what the paladin's post in their forum. There may be important factors to consider that I simply haven't thought of questioning. And yes, Taiko1, you're right on the money when you pointed out that my original post was "questions looking for clarification" - a lot of the info that I had was from "hear-say" ,  which is not enough for me to base a decision on. Anyone happy with their class is going to feel it's "The Best Class" when the reality is "It's the Best Class for them". I'd rather be one of those people than pick the wrong class for me and complaining that I feel underpowered - when the reality is that I've got great powers but aren't comfortable with using them (so end up being an underpowered player, rather than underpowered class). I was quite surprised with how little downtime EQ2 has (compared to EQ1, anyway) - I had forgotten that was a consideration also, and was still thinking in EQ1 terms. Paladins would be extremely useful if the cleric ends up pushing daisies - but properly managing aggro (and I was quite good at that in EQ1) reduces that risk. Plus the idea of playing a 'pure action role' and leaving support to the specialists is a personal appeal. Some people like playing support, some like a mix (I've done both in EQ1 - Enchanter class, pure support , Druid - mix of damage and support), I think in EQ2 I'd like my possible roles to be "tanking" and/or "damage", and leave support to those who want to focus on it . There's still a LOT I don't know.... "duel weilding" vs "one hand weapons + sheild" vs "two handed weapons" . My personal preference is two handed for when I want damage, and "one+sheild" for when playing a main tank. Can Paladins duel weild ? Can Berserkers use two handed weapons ? (presumably they can use one handers plus sheilds). What role does a Berserker have on a small raid or large raid, where a variety of classes is available ? Oh, if anyone has any suggestions about the "special abilities to take" as they come up, at least for the early ones, advice there would be appreciated. For the stat increase that comes at 8th, I plan to pick the stamina increasing stat (would strength be better ?) . For the "extra ability" that comes with 10th... I really have no idea what warriors get for options. I understand a lot is up to individual playstyle, but are there any "bad choices" to stay away from ? (I notice that there is a lot of "sharing reuse timers", not sure if that's a good or bad thing....). Again - Thanks for the advice so far ! I think I've got enough information to make a choice and feel comfortable about it, anything extra is still nice.

[Pnaxx]

I have a Mid lvl Pally and Zerker in the 25's...kinda low mid:smileywink:

 

anyway....i love the zerker best becuase it is a pure warrior type and the Pally was just neither here nor there...didnt dps the way i wanted it too and had limited heals. Soloing the Zerker stands head and shoulders apart and i can use almost any weapon out there.

 

My Pally cant duel weild and is very limited in weapons he can use....swords, hammers.....and i think thats it! It is real boring to me.

The Zerker gets pretty much everything and its so  grat to be able to play around with all the different toys EQ2 has to offer. I pull withg my bow and usually kill with my Duel Weild.

As far as holding agro...Pallys must use a complez combination of buffs...wards and tuants to be any good. I didn't like that. Some do...butr fer me...the great taunts and DPS of my Zerker keeps agro no prob and def has better AC potentual than Pally....cause he only gets a Kite shield where warriors get Tower.

You cant go wrong with either Pally or Zerker...but im bored of my goody 2 shoes Pally and love my bloody Zerker...who is always getting better and better.

Pnaxx

 

 

[CherobylJ]

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Aelyi wrote:
If I pick Berserker:
1. Soloing : High DPS , Good tanking, good soloability

Yup

2. Main melee of the group when partnering : High dps, and/or able to take the beating.

Yup

3. King of Aggro generation

Yup.
4. ? Able to play different roles simply by changing around active buffs / effects.

Yup
5. ? Lots of berserkers, hard to get pickup groups

Huh?  Nope...besides most good groups I have done pickup I create.
6. ? No powers to reduce downtime or help support the group

We have 3 different HP/Haste spells (4 now with tides being fixed) that all stack fer HPS.  They add to the order of 500ish hps and 9pct haste not to mention str/etc.

7. ? Less AC than paladins, can't MT as well on raids

Ummm no.  Base plate AC is the same amoungst plate classes, difference is from skills/arts.  A Bers with stacked Weaponguard/Def skills is pretty formidable tanking anything.  If anything given our Bers haste/self haste we make better tanks on hard content due to agro management (debateable and subjective).  A Guard has better raid mitigation than other classes because their skills stack better....but that is by design.

8. ? Puller ability totally know
Not bad but not as good a range pull as a Pallie/SK.  Can be fixed with a really good range bow/Hex doll.  Most pulling skills involve proximity agro and knowing how to work social/non social MOBS...thats all brain not char class.  Also include that fact that a Bers can chain stun a single pulled mob for about 10 secs with the right set of combat skills you have nice opening agro lock.

Any comments on this list ? Getting the above cleared up should help me decide.
Dont min/max.  Base your decsion on how you liek to play and then just jump in.  Both classes have alot to offer.  If you can live with being a shiney-icky-goodie then pallie may be for u!

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[Ru]

Most of your questions are personal preferance... As far as weapons go, right now, I carry a tower shield and axe for tanking, and my SBH for DPS. However, duel weild can be very effective if used right. Normally, 2 handed would win in damage, but, with duel wield, we get more chances to go berserk, and Blood Rage has more chances to proc. Also, you have to compare stats. I've found that 2 handed weapons have higher stats alone, but, combine the stats from two duel wield (or an axe/shield), and you will most likely end up with more. And, as for which weapons to use, again, personal preferance. We can use almost anything. I personally avoid swords, just cause I like axes/spears more. But, most are very well balanced, leaving the apperance choice to you. And, on skills, I recommend you check out the sticky on the top of the page (Rare Metal one). It lists all the skill upgrade choices. If you plan on getting adept 3/master in any of those, I'd advise against getting the natural adept 2. Also, skills that don't get replaced later, or, buffs are always a good choice. But, again, it's preferance. Want to tank better? Get the taunt upgrade. Damage? Get an attack upgrade. Finally, as far as our role in a raid. It depends on the party. We can tank raid fine. We can also off-tank, main assist, and be standard DPS. Our class is surprisingly versitile, so fill he role you are most needed in.

[DruidKing]

Hi,

I play a 34 Beserker and a 30 SK, the beserker is a MT, the SK really isn't. The SK can be, but does play a better role at support. As for getting groups, as a Beserker it never seems to be a problem.

[Mordicus]

Only 1 way to tell, just get on with it and roll one already, see for yourself. I wouldnt want to play any other class, but thats just me.

[Ansi]

Paladin vs. Bezerker is quite even excepting raid situations. AC throughout the plate tanks is reliant on gear, period. No class has an innate advantage in this area (unless SOE starts implimenting class specific gear as a means to manipulate this).

Paladin aggro, on the other hand, is a headache combining underpowered taunts with power sucking abilities meant to help with the issue of taunts (i.e. wards, heals, buffs, redemption) . In a raid situation, group make-up will determine which tanks over the other if gear and skill are on par with both players.

If you want to get to a core issue on zerker vs. paladin raid tanking it is just HP. In addition to this, bezerkers, a "offensive tank" have a better evasion buff, and serve with more efficiency as off-tanks than paladins. Will the combat changes affect this? Sure, but it will merely scale down fighter dps, not change the dps order in the archtype.

Now, if you are not really into the raid tanking stuff, in pickup groups, paladin offer some interesting options if you understand the class. Our heals give us unparalleled surviability in a multi-add situation, and our AE's are top notch (the finals of each line that is). Paladins are very diverse in their skill tree, and for that, we do not have a true specialization as a tank and suffer trade-offs. The difference between kite and tower shields is laughable, but in the end (for raids at least) power management and max hit points count for a lot.

P.S. Strykr as for gear, just you wait... rarrr!

Message Edited by Ansiri on 05-19-2005 10:49 AM

[Daran]

Being that I am an alt maniac I have a 30 berserker, a 23 bruiser, and a 14 crusader (I know the crusader is a bit low, but hey give me time) With each round of combat changes I try and play each of these to figure out the tradeoffs. So far this is my opinion Berserkers hold agro much easier than the other classes, whether this is by design or by accident is unknown. They are straight forward and smashmouth in their style. If you fight aggressivly and with reckless disregard for your safety (or your groups heh) then this may be the class for you. Being that they are so smashmouth they dont really rely on tactics instead focusing on brute force to mow down the opposition. Damage +agro + very good defense creates for a very effective tank in smaller 2-3 person groups. Paladins are much more reliant on tactics. I've found little to no agro problems thus far when I focus on holding agro rather than doing damage. While berserkers do both at the same time (many damage attacks are taunts and many taunts in some way increase damage). Paladins also have some of the best survivability in cases where there isnt a healer. They are power hungry though and really thrive when in larger groups where they can focus on agro and not worry about damage cause the mages and scouts have that covered. Bruisers....this one is hard to peg down, but amongst the fighters I've played they are by far the most finnesse, Unlike the other fighter classes bruisers have the abiltiy to do crowd control, Jeer for instance is an AE hate ability that has the bonus of fearing the target of the spell. They also get a mez. both these abilities are given before they get to 30. They have massive damage that for the most part is best focused on one target. The hard part of the bruiser is the part that makes the most sense, the basic martial arts disciplines (Karate Etc.) are all about stances. You take your stance, punch, then return to your stance before punching again. This is very similar in EQ2 where the bruiser gets special stances (that take up concentration slots) which are very specifically designed to be used either when tanking or when looking to be more DPS. Bruisers are finnesse and work best in cases where they can focus their power on one mob while keeping the others mezed/feared. groups of 3 -4 seem to pay more attention to tactics than 6 who can beat something down with pure power. Their main theoretical weakness may be single mob ++ heroic encounters, their crowd control abilities are negated otherwise they can very effectively turn a 4 on 4 encounter into a 4 on 2 encounter. Of course all of these are a work in progress and I want to get to 30 on all 3 before I give a more finalized opinion, again this is my opinion based on my own personal experience up to this point. I make no mention of guardians, shadowknights, or monks because I lack first hand experience on them.

[Ansi]

You can not really appreciate some of the paladin issues until you reach the mid 40's. 20-40 for paladins is a great time, but it's in the high 40's when most of the caster and melee dps starts peaking that you find that straight up taunting is not enough.

[Alfgand]

Sytker=Rude

[Friskc]

really dont think there's much to compare 2 totally different classes i mean they heal them self ............

 

Zerkin Fury of the shard

 

Oggok

 

Guild Nerfed

 

[Sabin the Gre]

Mmmmm where do I start.  To be honest, this isn't a decision.  Berserkers are a far better class right now than pallies, hands down.  I'm biased, but never in your life will you see a pally out dps a berserker if their skill and gear are equal.  Further, Berserkers can stack just around 1k hit points for thier group, not to mention some monsterous attack buff's and proc's (anarchy anyone?).  And to be honest, for split pulls or keeping agro on alot of targets its really hard for Pally to get it done as effectively as berserker.  If you're talking about gear, their is nothing a Pally can use that a berserker can't, but berserkers can use tower shield.  Your wards and heals are nice, and your combat rez is second to none, but wards and heals can be taken care of by a healer.  Given I'm biased, b/c I'm a level 50 zerker, but a good zerker is a way more valuable class than a good pally.  Keep in mind this is the current state of things, and not how things might be when you get a toon to level 50.  But currently berserkers are everybit as good.

[Pernicious Pira]

 OK no specefic person in general but over last few weeks i been reading board post I have seen things sort of like this in reguards to group haste speeds.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ 6. ? No powers to reduce downtime or help support the group

We have 3 different HP/Haste spells (4 now with tides being fixed) that all stack fer HPS.  They add to the order of 500ish hps and 9pct haste not to mention str/etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~  Now I always have tides of war (master I) up and its a 10 min buff. UNless description is wrong it clearly states.    increase attack speed of group members by 50%  increase crushing, piercing and slashing of group members by 12  and other things.  but why do i see post saying haste group 10% or 9% or some number such as that and as best i know tides of war is or can grant 50% alone?

[Benaire]

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Pernicious Pirate wrote: OK no specefic person in general but over last few weeks i been reading board post I have seen things sort of like this in reguards to group haste speeds.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ 6. ? No powers to reduce downtime or help support the group

We have 3 different HP/Haste spells (4 now with tides being fixed) that all stack fer HPS.  They add to the order of 500ish hps and 9pct haste not to mention str/etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~  Now I always have tides of war (master I) up and its a 10 min buff. UNless description is wrong it clearly states.    increase attack speed of group members by 50%  increase crushing, piercing and slashing of group members by 12  and other things.  but why do i see post saying haste group 10% or 9% or some number such as that and as best i know tides of war is or can grant 50% alone?

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Thats because there mistakeing Tides with Screaming fury and the upgrade that adds HPs haste 9-10%

[Zav]

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Aelyi wrote:
Hi Folks....

Just restarted a character on Crushbone/Qeynos, and getting close to that magic point where I'll have to decide which path to walk.


If I pick Berserker:
1. Soloing : High DPS , Good tanking, good soloability
2. Main melee of the group when partnering : High dps, and/or able to take the beating.
3. King of Aggro generation
4. ? Able to play different roles simply by changing around active buffs / effects.
5. ? Lots of berserkers, hard to get pickup groups
6. ? No powers to reduce downtime or help support the group
7. ? Less AC than paladins, can't MT as well on raids
8. ? Puller ability totally know

Any comments on this list ? Getting the above cleared up should help me decide.

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5. I play on Crushbone too and zerkers are definetly needed. Typically I get tells within 30 minutes of logging in. Not because I'm lfg but because people need tanks and they are rarely LFG on the server. If I'm banking, checking the broker, finishing quests, doesn't matter, people are always looking for a tank.

Now as far as Paladins go, Crushbone seems to be where they all are. A large percentage of my pickup groups with my mystic result in a Paladin tanking but we're always looking for a guard/zerker. The tanks in my guild are Paladins and we're holding off on raiding until the guilds zerker comes back. I'm working my alt zerker to 50 so we don't have to wait anymore.

So not long ago when I had to make the choice it was berserker all the way.

[Braell]

I done a shadowknight and berserker comparison a little while back, tryed to follow the format for the spells hear to make it easier to swap between the two spell/ca lists.

 http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=9771#M9771

It helps if you played a crusader or warrior even slightly so that you recognise some of the skill names, though basically Paladin and Shadowknight follow the crusader template only with there own flavour.

What i covered is mainly mechanics - and to show the "balance" as i believe it was intended, it fell short in places but i am going to re-write it when the new changes come live. (was interesting writing it, i covered 2% of what i wanted to say, but that was to much waffling) If you want to know what it's like to play a shadowknight or play a berserker then thats a bit different.

One thing i will say if you want to be a paladin or shadowknight - be preparied to micromange every scrap of power, as a berserker you can hit every skill and go nuts in an attempt to kill something fast, something i enjoyed about my EQL sk.

Saying that, well i havent played a paladin but from what i've looked into, asked and gone through with the shadowknight, Paladins do look reasonably robust, able to fit in as a 2nd tank quite nicely (lots of skills to do that job, vs Guardian/Berserker who get skills to purely make themselves better tanks) - while that sounds like a bit more flexability, in some ways it is just more crippling.. but thats a point of view, if you want to tank all the time then probably a paladin is a bad choice, if you like to sometimes slack off and not be the main tank but still enjoy "being" a tank class - then a paladin is a nice choice to, though also to fill that role is monk/bruisers who focus on damage more than the non-offensive skills of a paladin - but hey, what ever you like playing.

 

Braellar

 

 

[Braell]

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8. ? Puller ability totally know
Not bad but not as good a range pull as a Pallie/SK.  Can be fixed with a really good range bow/Hex doll.  Most pulling skills involve proximity agro and knowing how to work social/non social MOBS...thats all brain not char class.  Also include that fact that a Bers can chain stun a single pulled mob for about 10 secs with the right set of combat skills you have nice opening agro lock.

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Heh reading this made me think i was missing something - i remember the first time i saw a person dual wielding in EQL i was trying to figure out how he done it and why i couldnt heh.

Shadowknights/paladins can cast while running (cant when you are a crusader) which allows you to complete a HO while running back to the group.

But those range spells arent enough to give you solid agro from two blasts, but you can easily cast a taunt while running back then follow with a stun/knockdown when it hits the group, usualy a nice general thing to do for single mobs as any melee, be it you pull with ammo or spell etc it doesnt hugely matter, imho if you dont get at least one taunt off before its in casting range of the wizards and crew then somone's slacking.

I dont know about a good range doll - so far most of the range weapons i've seen have the identical range and are not noticably further or short from spells range - and hex dolls, only ones i have owned have been 10 second cast but in reality feels more like 30 seconds when you are looking at the bar, if these get a lot shorter then thats great.

And tricks to pulling - i didnt think there was anything complex but heck there might be neat things i am missing, but i thought that if you attacked a mob then others around it would come to (assumeing they are on the same factions etc, ready to attack and non-ready to attack i assume are set via factions to and wont help each other from what i've seen) which leaves proximity agro as the only neat trick so to speak. (comeing from EQL playing an sk where we had tons of neat tricks heh it feels odd to have gone back to something even less complex than warriors pulling with bows in EQL)

 

Braellar