Zerkers-- this is how you hold and/or regain agro

[Cozumel]

Last night, after dinging 39, and getting my new "upgrade" to maul, I noticed it had a "increases hate by xxx".I then inspected all my spells, and made note of which once increase hate, and placed them on my toolbar.Basically: The lvl 39 upgrade to maul (I forget the name), Promise of Violence (38?), Rage, Brachs Shout, and Mad Cry... I computed the hate "DPS", and NOT including my own DPS, I can generate ~200-230DPS of "HATE", add another 70ish or so from DPS,Bloodlust, and (optionally) hold-the-line, and quite honestly, NOBODY can pull a mob off me.I was tanking in Oblisk lvl 44^^ mobs last night, with the wizards/confurers going FULL BLAST, NON-STOP (yes, we were tearrring the place apart), andagro would NEVER leave me.There is a down-side: I'm not doing as MUCH DPS as I could because the hate generation isn't actually DPS, and those attacks don't do as much damage, however,playing that roll, makes a HUGE benefit for classes which (and should [read: wiz/warlock]) out damage me.Just a tip for those of you having agro problems. My pull method: Pull with Mad-cry (single encounter), or AE Taunt (Bracks taunt or Enrage), Rage, Stomp, Whirlwind, theninto mad-cry's/promise of violence/rage (repeated, until AE taunt comes up again 20 sec later). -- Coz

[Diabol]

Why are you using bloodlust now that you have tides of war?

 

[snapgor]

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Diaboliq wrote:

Why are you using bloodlust now that you have tides of war?

 

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Because they stack...

 

[Micbat]

Why not Sunder as your AE taunt?

[snapgor]

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Cozumel wrote:
I was tanking in Oblisk lvl 44^^ mobs last night, with the wizards/confurers going FULL BLAST, NON-STOP (yes, we were tearrring the place apart), and
agro would NEVER leave me.

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WIzards and conjurers are not known for taking ago, at least not in eq2.. No disrespect but I haven't seen a conjurer that could out DPS myself, and I'm a tank!

Anyway, you got your method right but sometimes nothing will work to hold agro if a bard or out scout wants to take agro. Bards have buffs which will out taunt anything you have, and if they do it just as you pull.. good luck! Obviously a team member won't buff as you pull but if they wanted to take agro, don't think the zerker is that powerful in that nothing can steal agro from you!

[Cozumel]

Because sunder's taunt(hate) isn't that high... but yes, it can be added into the equation for generating even more hate.I'm just trying to point out that agro generation for zerkers is NOT just Bloodlust + taunt.. we have MAAANNY more skills to hold agro and REGAIN agro off healers besides taunt.I hear lots of stories, "Taunt is broken, I can't taunt off a healer once he gets agro"... And thats simply not true, if you know what skills to use to HOLD and regain agro. Zerkers should look at their skills and note which ones increases HATE (agro)... and when playing MT, use them. Your job as a MT is to hold agro, not DPS... IMHO

[Cozumel]

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snapgorth wrote:

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Cozumel wrote:
I was tanking in Oblisk lvl 44^^ mobs last night, with the wizards/confurers going FULL BLAST, NON-STOP (yes, we were tearrring the place apart), and
agro would NEVER leave me.

---

WIzards and conjurers are not known for taking ago, at least not in eq2.. No disrespect but I haven't seen a conjurer that could out DPS myself, and I'm a tank!

Anyway, you got your method right but sometimes nothing will work to hold agro if a bard or out scout wants to take agro. Bards have buffs which will out taunt anything you have, and if they do it just as you pull.. good luck! Obviously a team member won't buff as you pull but if they wanted to take agro, don't think the zerker is that powerful in that nothing can steal agro from you!

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Well.. of course, if someone is an idiot and buffs, or hell.. AE Nukes on a PULL before hate (agro) is established.. too freakin' bad. I'm talking about normal play and holding the agro off healers, wizards, and the like... and with the improved DPS from wiz/warlocks, you should be aware of this (and from the druid heals which seem to generate a lot of agro also).. Also for holding agro on named mobs while the healer and nukers do their job... Just trying to point out that few too many zerkers don't use all the right skills to maintain agro, not trying to have a [Removed for Content] match over "if" someone else can steal agro.

[Too]

as far as getting agro

 

 

buffs > taunts

[Diabol]

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snapgorth wrote:

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Diaboliq wrote:

Why are you using bloodlust now that you have tides of war?

 

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Because they stack...

 

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DOH!

 

[snapgor]

Ah okay.. then we're on the same page.. here's my routine which is slightly different than yours..

 

 

AE Taunt, AE Stun, Anarchy, attack, single taunt

 

or

 

SIngle ranged taunt, AE taunt, ae stun, anarchy, attack, single taunt

 

 

[Thundr]

Too bad the Haste from Bloodlust and Tides of War doesn't stack.

 

{Edit} thanks for the correction, just read the description of Bloodlust in game since I haven't actually used it since I got ToW...and there is no inherent haste on it.

Message Edited by Thundrox on 02-22-2005 07:06 PM

[DaemonSlay]

On top of your taunts, you should cast "buffs" (like Rallying cry, call to arms, Battle tactics, battlecry ect) this also increase hate

[snapgor]

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Thundrox wrote:

Too bad the Haste from Bloodlust and Tides of War doesn't stack

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Bloodlust, as far as I remember, does not have a haste component...

I could be mistaken since I can't check the description in game right now. Someone post what bloodlust description says?...

[-Aonein-]

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snapgorth wrote:

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Diaboliq wrote:

Why are you using bloodlust now that you have tides of war?

 

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Because they stack...

 

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Acually they dont stack, they stack in the buff window, but there effect's dont stack. Check your skill's when u buff yourself with it.

Bloodlust Adept 3 :

• Increase Crushing, Piercing and Slashing of group members by 8
• Casts Berserk on caster. On a succesful attack this spell has a 5% chance to :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of target by 36%

Tide's of War Adept 3 :

• Increase Attack Speed of group members by 46%
• Increase Crushing, Piercing and Slashing of group members by 9
• Casts Berserk on Caster. On a successful attack this spell has a 10% chance to :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of target by 43%

The OP has it a little wrong, Rage, Maul, Relentless Battering dont increase Hate with the target, Rage is just a 10 second Berserk, Maul and Relentless Battering are just small debuff's, which might generate agro, but not increase Hate.

Rage App 1 :

• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of caster by 42%

Maul App 3 :

• Inflict 159 - 265 melee damage on target
• Decrease Slashing, Crushing and Piercing of target by 5
• Interupts target

Relentless Battering Adept 3 :

• Interrupts target
• Inflict 190 - 318 melee damage on target
• Decrease Slashing, Crushing and Piercing of target by 5
• Decrease defense by 3

 

The spell's that we do have that increase Hate are, Taunt, Taunting Blow, Shout, Hold the Line, Anger, Enrage, Sunder, Mad Cry and Promise of Violence. This is the only spell's plus the one's you might chose from your lvl 20, 30 and 40 specialization skill's you get to chose from.

Taunt App 1 :

• Increase Threat by 97 - 118

Taunting Blow App 3 :

• Inflict 28 - 47 melee damage on target
• Increase Threat by 190

Shout App 3 :

• Increase Threat by 171

Hold the Line Adept 1 :

• Root caster
• Casts Hold the Line on caster. On a succesful attack this spell has a 33% chance to :
• Increase Threat by 153

Anger Adept 1 :

• Increase Threat by 247 - 301

Enrage App 3 :

• Casts Berserk on caster. On succesful attack this spell will :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of Target by 36%
• Increase Threat by 316

Sunder App 3 :

• Increase Threat by 327

Mad Cry Adept 1 :

• Increase Threat by 360 - 440
• Interrupts target

Promise of Violence Adept 1 :

• Inflict 61 - 102 melee damage on target
• Increase threat priority of target by 400 postions
• Casts Berserk on caster. On a succesful attack this spell has a 10% chance to :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of target by 44%
• Increase STR of caster by 18

 

Im lvl 40 now and i only use 2 tool bar's, there really isn't a need for anymore then that, you waste to much time casting when you could be helping the group with DPS. Only Hate increase's i have in my tool bar's is, Mad Cry, Balok's Furious Chant and Promise of Violence. You dont need to spam buff's during fight ot hold agro, you just have to make sure that you build enough intial Hate to keep agro during the course of a fight. What i do is i run in, keep the group back so trigger happy wizzie's dont jump the gun, AE taunt group mob's or SIngle Taunt ^^ con mob's, and on your way back to the group, cast Havoc or Anarcy, then just use your Taunt's as they pop for reuse to stay on top of the group, you dont have to spam Buff's at all, i never do, or have too, that way i'm maximizing my DPS to support the group instead of wasting time group buffing. I group with lvl 43+ wizzie's / warlock's pumping out over 200 - 240 DPS on group mob's and around 180 - 200 on single ^^ mob's and never lose it.

In the end, it all come's down to what work's for you, but it seem's alot of Berserker's out there are going about it the hard way when it doesnt have to be so hard. Working so hard to hold agro the wrong way can defeat the enjoyment of tanking. One of the problem's is alot of people seem to pass up on Balok's Furious Chant which is one of our lvl 30 specialization choice's we get. We dont get no AE taunt from lvl 22 until lvl 50, so you got basically 27 level's on just Enrage, which simply wont cut it later on plus it's 30 second recast timer. Balok's Furious Chant is of Adept 2 quaility, and has a 20 second recast timer, it would have to be easily number 1 choice for lvl 30 specialization skill by far and the best thing about the skill is it wont even turn White till lvl 45, meaning it will last you all the way to lvl 50, just in time for your lvl 50 AE taunt.

Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

 

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 02-22-2005 05:17 PM

[snapgor]

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-Aonein- wrote:

Acually they dont stack, they stack in the buff window, but there effect's dont stack. Check your skill's when u buff yourself with it.

Bloodlust Adept 3 :

• Increase Crushing, Piercing and Slashing of group members by 8
• Casts Berserk on caster. On a succesful attack this spell has a 5% chance to :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of target by 36%

Tide's of War Adept 3 :

• Increase Attack Speed of group members by 46%
• Increase Crushing, Piercing and Slashing of group members by 9
• Casts Berserk on Caster. On a successful attack this spell has a 10% chance to :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of target by 43%

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Afraid you're reading the numbers wrong. There is no haste component to Bloodlust, never was, and your description confirms it!

The description of Tides shows it provides a 10% chance to proc Beserk which gives 5% dmg per second increase, and 43% haste.
The description of Bloodlust shows it provides 5% chance to proc Berserk which gives 5% dmg per second increase, and 36% haste.

It is not possible to judge if you're proc'ing beserk more or less, conclusively, without doing some real tests. Now if you're saying the crushing, piercing, and slashing doesn't stack, than that's another story. Check out this command to confirm: /show_window MainHUD.Character

 

Message Edited by snapgorth on 02-21-2005 03:31 PM

[-Aonein-]

Snap im not reading anything wrong and im not sure what you getting at with Haste component, cause everyone know's Bloodlust is just a offensive buff with a chance to berserk which is haste in it's own right but my point had nothing to with haste, you asked for someone to display the stat's of Bloodlust, i did just that. We all knew that before we could see raw data from examining that all Bloodlust was, was a offensive buff with a small chance to berserk. Reason why i think they dont stack at all is one simple reason, when you cast Tide's of War on yourself, you gain the 9 to offensive skill's, now cast Bloodlust, no change to skill's, meaning you might have capped yourself with Tide's of War, now take Tide's off and cast reckless stance now you have lowered your skill's making it possibly for Bloodlust and Tide's to stack IF you were capped, now cast Tide's of war and then try and buff yourself with Bloodlust to see if your skill point's change. They dont. In other word's you could take 50 skill point's from Offense skill's and they both still wouldnt stack, stay with me here. Now take those off, cast Bloodlust, then Tide's of War, notice the number value change's when Tide's of war hit's hit's ? Now take those off, cast Reckless Stance, Bloodlust and then Tide's of War, you will notice that Tide's of war will change the value again, but Bloodlust wont change a thing if you already have Tide's of War up, in short, Tide's of War is overwriting Bloodlust, and id be more then willing to bet that Tide's of War overwrite's the entire Bloodlust spell, not just one part of it. With Focus Rage and Tide's of War up, your getting a 50% chance to berserk, that's not counting all the other combat art's we get that arent on the same line as Tide's of War.

I use the MainHUD window all the time, well i use too, and you probally havent noticed, but the amount of haste we get is capped, meaning having any more then Tide's of War, Screaming Fury and 1 Berserk Icon flashing and Rage when Berserk isnt flashing, is a waste cause you are capped at a certain percent, throw in the mix that most lvl 40 + people have FBSS and Ancient Slayer ring, so your looking at 49% from Tide's of War, 15% from Screaming Fury, 42% from Rage, 15% from FBSS, Slayer's ring 3%, 43% from Berserk, now at lvl 50, your most likely to be capped at around the 115% haste mark, so any more then one Berserk Icon flashing is just a waste. I can succesfully cap my haste value in my MainHUD window at 105% constantly with just one Berserk icon flashing, and when tanking, you always have at least 1 berserk icon flashing. When you dont have a Berserk icon flashing, you have Rage icon flashing which is 42% haste, when Berserk Proc's while Rage is up, it does nothing, when you use Rage while Berserk is up, it does nothing cause your capped. So there is no point in wasting time with Bloodlust once you get Tide's of War.

Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

 

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 02-22-2005 10:37 AM

[Styk]

ToW overwrites Bloodlust.... thats why it is an upgrade to it .... icons both might be up but that doesnt mean they stack.. also Bloodlust never had a haste componant, unlike ToW which at adept 1 gives 47% haste to your group, put that together with screaming fury ( 9% ) and you can haste your group for 56% plus give them HP plus atk..... also has people forgetten about Raging Strike.... at adept 1 it increases your threat priority 348 postions and you can use it right after PoViolence since they arent linked.... Strykr Destructicus42 Berserker

[-Aonein-]

I got a feeling Promise of Violence is bugged Styker, you dont get the 18 to STR that it state's it give's, well mine is Adept 1 and I dont get no STR bonus, and it doesnt say anything about just a chance for a STR bonus, all it say's is Increase STR of caster by 18, i have not once seen my STR move 18 point's.

 

Another thing is, notice the description on Promise of Violence and Raging Strike about the Threat level increase ?

 

Promise of Violence Adept 1 :

• Inflict 61 - 102 melee damage on target
• Increase threat priority of target by 400 postions
• Casts Berserk on caster. On a succesful attack this spell has a 10% chance to :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of target by 44%
• Increase STR of caster by 18

Raging Strike Adept 1 :

• Increase threat priority of target by 348 postions
• Casts Berserk on caster. On a succesful attack this spell has a 10% chance to :
• Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
• Increase Attack Speed of target by 37%
• Inflict 53 - 88 melee damage on target

Mad Cry Adept 1 :

• Increase Threat by 360 - 440
• Interrupts target

 

Why do they say Increase threat priority instead of just increase threat, like most other threat increasing art's? It is more then likely the same meaning, just worded differently, knowing SoE :smileywink:.

Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

[Davish_Darkwolf]

Nice thread.

 

Regarding pulls,  i usually pull them with  Mad Cry (single taunt), let them chase me and when near cast Enrage to ensure all mobs are onto me.

 

Sometimes when pulling not every mob comes at once, if i waste  Enrage  at the beginning, i loose a valuable AOE hate tool when the late mobs arrive, so i wait till they all are near before using it.

 

I also use only 2 shortcut bars in the bottom, with my attack skills on top and taunt skills, short duration buffs and special stances on bottom (hold the line, havoc, etc.).  Also have a side bar with my major buffs, range attack skill and Incoming macro message.

 

[Styk]

-Aonein- thats what i've noticed abot PoViolence as well, ive gotten the Str Bonus ONCE lol..... it might be be bugged.... but as far as keeping agro.... i dont have that problem.... i lose agro for 2 reasons mainly.... being lazy and someone is using 70% of their power bar to take it from me....Aonein keep up that research thou, you give us zerkers lots of info to compare against..... Strykr DEstructicus43 Berserker

[Cozumel]

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Styker wrote:-Aonein- thats what i've noticed abot PoViolence as well, ive gotten the Str Bonus ONCE lol..... it might be be bugged.... but as far as keeping agro.... i dont have that problem.... i lose agro for 2 reasons mainly.... being lazy and someone is using 70% of their power bar to take it from me....Aonein keep up that research thou, you give us zerkers lots of info to compare against..... Strykr DEstructicus43 Berserker

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Actually..thats wrong-- if you have any single mob in "range" and fire the AOE taunt, it hits all of the linked mobs, regardless of their distance... I pull with it regurarly... then fire stomp and they are all over me!

[Diabol]

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Styker wrote:
ToW overwrites Bloodlust.... thats why it is an upgrade to it .... icons both might be up but that doesnt mean they stack..

also Bloodlust never had a haste componant, unlike ToW which at adept 1 gives 47% haste to your group, put that together with screaming fury ( 9% ) and you can haste your group for 56% plus give them HP plus atk.....

also has people forgetten about Raging Strike.... at adept 1 it increases your threat priority 348 postions and you can use it right after PoViolence since they arent linked....

Strykr Destructicus
42 Berserker

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Just a couple things... ToW doesnt overwrite bloodlust, they do stack *somewhat* I played with them last night and watched stats etc.  When I had both (cast in either order, you just have to wait for the recast timer to cycle) my combat arts were 2 pts higher than with ToW alone, so there is some limited benefit.   The other thing is the haste from ToW is self only.

[reakshav]

Just FYI,

 

Havoc, is a great spell to increase agro... I learned this by mistake when I was not the main tank in a group, I used this buff on pull, and grabbed agro, it works almost as well as a taunt.

 

 

 

[-Aonein-]

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Diaboliq wrote:

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Styker wrote:
ToW overwrites Bloodlust.... thats why it is an upgrade to it .... icons both might be up but that doesnt mean they stack..

also Bloodlust never had a haste componant, unlike ToW which at adept 1 gives 47% haste to your group, put that together with screaming fury ( 9% ) and you can haste your group for 56% plus give them HP plus atk.....

also has people forgetten about Raging Strike.... at adept 1 it increases your threat priority 348 postions and you can use it right after PoViolence since they arent linked....

Strykr Destructicus
42 Berserker

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Just a couple things... ToW doesnt overwrite bloodlust, they do stack *somewhat* I played with them last night and watched stats etc.  When I had both (cast in either order, you just have to wait for the recast timer to cycle) my combat arts were 2 pts higher than with ToW alone, so there is some limited benefit.   The other thing is the haste from ToW is self only.

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What's the quaility level's of your Bloodlust and Tide's of War Diaboliq? Cause both of mine are at the same quaility level and Bloodlust never stack's with Tide's of War, ever. Also Tide's of War does add group haste, i have had my group check their attackspeed in the MainHUD window's, also :

 

Tide's of War Adept 3 :

• Increase Attack Speed of group members by 46%
• Increase Crushing, Piercing and Slashing of group members by 9
• Casts Berserk on Caster. On a successful attack this spell has a 10% chance to :
  • Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
  • Increase Attack Speed of target by 43%

 

Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

[Wolfmon]

You can add Brugal's Boastful Blow to the list of very good taunts.

 

I was very surprised to see how much agro this ability gives. It is, BTW, one of the lvl 20 bonus skills(upgrade to taunting blow). At work right now but believe it have aroun 357pts agro, up from around 160 for taunting blow so a very nice upgrade and around the same as Mad Cry at adept 1.

 

Very happy with that choice from /respec :smileyhappy:.

[-Aonein-]

Yeah i didnt put in Speciality's cause i like people to have that choice and i dont want to lead people down a track they might later on regret. The info about the spell's is here on the forum's, all people have to do is make a decision, which is what add's a bit of spice to gameplay, chosing the road you wish to take.

 

 

Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

[Styk]

I can email you SS Aoenin that shows my ToW at adept 1 is 47% to group , was wondering why at adept3 you have 1% less haste then at adept 1

[Diabol]

Both are app 4, er BL might be adept 1.  Maybe there is a cap that adept 3 hits on its own, but i dont see why the adept3 would cause a hard overwrite.   Up until the added details were added to skills ToW read that it increased the berserkers speed and said nothing about group, also seen many people say it was only affecting them.  Maybe they've been wrong, maybe its a recent change.  Either way its a positive suprise, I hope its not just some bug that will be taken away.

[Zenmu]

On the topic of Agro... anyone use Hold the Line post 40?... I have mine at app 4, and wonder if it's worth upgrading to adept 3 at some point.

 

It seems like a nice skill to have maxed, if anything it's added hate to our already stellar line of agro producing skills.

 

 

 

Also, anyone notice problems keeping agro with certain Conj. pets? This weekend i was doing Qeynos AQ 4 for some guildies, and reguardless of all my taunts and group buffs being adept 1 with a few at app4, using group buffs mid pull to build agro, and using Hold the Line on grouped pulls of 3 or more mobs, mobs would always break off me and attack the conj. pet and even the conj. some times.

I could maybe understand if the conjurer was burning mana like crazy, but majority of the time his mana bar was full, and he said he was only using his pet as dps halfway through when he noticed he was pulling so much agro. He was also only assisting off me, which was just mind boggling. So i'm just wondering if anyone else noticed wierd agro problems with conjurer pets, or pets in general...?

 

 

[-Aonein-]

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Styker wrote:
I can email you SS Aoenin that shows my ToW at adept 1 is 47% to group , was wondering why at adept3 you have 1% less haste then at adept 1

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Your level 43 though yeah Styker? It goes up 1% on it's own every few level's, it could be 1% every level i think, not 100% sure on that, when i scribed my adept 3 all i got was a 1% bonus from it, i didnt really expect anything huge cause it was already a nice increasement as it was.

 

Taemek Frozenberg 40th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 02-23-2005 12:13 PM

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 02-23-2005 12:14 PM