LOL we are so over powered that...

[Snikey]

- Guardian: Crumble - Reduced damage on melee hit portion of the combat art.
- Guardian: Concussion - Increased damage, now reduces casting skills of target instead of power damage.

[aislynn00]

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Snikey wrote:

- Guardian: Crumble - Reduced damage on melee hit portion of the combat art.
- Guardian: Concussion - Increased damage, now reduces casting skills of target instead of power damage.

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While I don't know whether the damage increase pertaining to Concussion will outweigh the reduction with regards to Crumble, the implication that the above is a nerf is silly. 

Concussion is one of those abilities which truly serves no constructive purpose any longer--when was the last time you drained a mob of all its power?

Now, a casting skill debuff, on the other hand, will actually increase the survivability of whoever is tanking by allowing him a greater chance of resisting hostile spells. 

I, for one, welcome the combat art revamp.

[Snikey]

I see your point on the power drain, but why the crumble nerf?

[aislynn00]

 

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Snikey wrote:
I see your point on the power drain, but why the crumble nerf?

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Because the damage of Concussion is being increased to make Concussion a more attractive combat art overall.

I don't believe Lockeye wants guardian DPS increased at the bottom line, however, so a bonus in one place necessitates a reduction somewhere else.  Furthermore, the Crumble line is currently one of our two primary sources of damage, so if anything has to be nerfed, Crumble is probably the best place to do so; the combat art certainly is extremely good as things stand.

[Snikey]

And is the only CA I have a chance to regain aggro from when all 4 tuants are down. /Shrug  saying "It's our best damage CA, it has to be nerf'd" is a bit silly. But I guess Guardians has become so beat down they accept anything now adays. The overall DPS barely be changed from 1 CA.

[Xibi]

The only place the damage nerf might really matter is in pvp when you can get 2 big CA attacks off and kill a caster immediately before they start to run.   So that kind of sucks.

[Docimodo]

the power ddrain to casting skill reduce will impact pvp quite a bit id say... in a bad way imo

[Belce]

I think the skill debuff will mean better results for PvP for guardians and their groupmates.  Casters will loose effectiveness because of this and when was the last time a caster had no power for you?  This will mean they will effectively be casting those spells at a lower lvl and therefore a better chance to reduce or resist those spells.  The skill debuff means we will be mitigating their spell damage while it applies, which is better than saying you can cast one fewer of that spell if you should go oom.   This is a right across aboard debuff of any spell effects done while in effect. 

[aislynn00]

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Snikey wrote:
And is the only CA I have a chance to regain aggro from when all 4 tuants are down.

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Whine, whine, whine. 

The only CA that gives you a chance of recovering aggro?  Give me a break.

For one thing, a lot of Crumble's damage isn't up front; it is dealt by the DoT component, so claiming that it is the best aggro recovery tool you have is simply nonsense. 

Beyond that, if you need to recover aggro and your normal taunts are still recycling, read on.

Use Reinforcement: every single hit moves you up one position on the hate list.  Useable every 3 minutes.  If you are losing aggro more frequently than that on a regular basis, you should take a serious look at your tanking style.

You need more hate right then and there?  Use Obliterate followed by Flay, frequently resulting in 2000+ virtually instantaneous damage, and thus, hate.  Better than any single taunt, as a matter of fact, and harder to resist.

That isn't enough?  Stun the mob, for crying out loud!  Your stun affords you 4 seconds during which the mob can't attack anyone, and considering your primary single-target taunt is on an 8 second reuse timer, it will most often buy you the time you need.

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/Shrug  saying "It's our best damage CA, it has to be nerf'd" is a bit silly. But I guess Guardians has become so beat down they accept anything now adays. The overall DPS barely be changed from 1 CA.

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If you want to quote me, do it properly and don't try to twist my statements into something they are plainly not. 

If Lockeye wanted to make one combat art more attractive to us players, so we would start using it more often, one way of doing so would be by increasing its damage/power cost ratio.  Hence Concussion's damage rating was increased.  With me so far?

However, if guardian overall DPS is currently where it should be, then Lockeye can't increase the damage output of one combat art without lowering it on another.

So, he has to reduce the damage of one of our combat arts.  Which one to pick?  Something that is only semi-decent, like Perfect Strike, which just might make it not worth our time any longer?  Or something that is really great, which could easily survive a minor nerf, such as the Crumble line?  Obviously, you adjust the best ability, not the worst.

Why, exactly, is that hard to get?  

And as for guardians ostensibly being "beat down", we are undoubtedly the best main tanks in the game, we have superior aggro control vs epic mobs, we are number one in terms of aggro recovery capabilities, we have the highest mitigation in the game, we are the kings of HP, and with Obliterate and the stamina AA line, our DPS can be quite impressive.  We are, in short, in the best shape ever since LU13. 

And you are whining?  I guess some people will never be satisfied until they are the best in pretty much any regard, as warriors used to be back in EQ1.

Message Edited by aislynn00 on 06-01-2006 01:39 AM

Message Edited by aislynn00 on 06-01-2006 01:41 AM

[Meinen]

I personally don't have a problem with this.  without knowing exactly how much they are reducing one and increasing the other, its hard to say its even close to a nerf since they will more than likely even out anyway. 

Power drain on the concussion CA line wasn't very practical and i like the new change.  Besides, considering what they did to guards in the beginning, this is minor and something that i am not even concerned with.

I won't say anything about holding aggro cause that would be derailing the thread lol. 

[Xibi]

Oh crumble is the melee debuff.  I think some here (including myself) were thinking crumble was one of the 2 big attack spell lines.   Crumble doesn't do much damage to begin with, so I doubt it can be nerfed much.

[aislynn00]

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Xibitt wrote:
Oh crumble is the melee debuff.  I think some here (including myself) were thinking crumble was one of the 2 big attack spell lines.   Crumble doesn't do much damage to begin with, so I doubt it can be nerfed much.

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I don't think Crumble even exists any longer by that name, but as I recall, it used to be one of the combat arts in our offensive skill debuff line.

For the record, though, if you chain-cast all your combat arts (Master I quality) at 70th, the two that consistently deal the most total damage are Sever and Merciless Charge, our two DoT debuffs.  Flay comes in third, followed by Obliterate, but both of those are far behind Sever and Merciless Charge, primarily due to the reuse time.

[Snikey]

Aye I was thinking it was the T7 versions of Blast/Crush... my bad

[Wabit]

SS's from a betabuffed toon taken today

[Docimodo]

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Belce wrote:

I think the skill debuff will mean better results for PvP for guardians and their groupmates.  Casters will loose effectiveness because of this and when was the last time a caster had no power for you?  This will mean they will effectively be casting those spells at a lower lvl and therefore a better chance to reduce or resist those spells.  The skill debuff means we will be mitigating their spell damage while it applies, which is better than saying you can cast one fewer of that spell if you should go oom.   This is a right across aboard debuff of any spell effects done while in effect. 

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Ill extrapolate then.

 

~half of archetypes are not casters. ~half of those dont cast much offensive spells during combat (unless solo) ~half of my group fights last until multiple players are oom. usually the group with an oom taunter or healer is the loser.

 

as for one v one the skill is a little more useful versus certain classes but a lot worse versus tank types and healer types, its a major way to stop a healer whos staying out of combat to regen, the skill on top of free auto attack dmg is an easy way to get them near oom before u unleash the rest of your power. now for say a berserker one v one its a battle of who can drain the others power faster. all my fights versus an even geared berserker have resulted in us both going oom but if the berserker isnt oom first i am always in bad shape due to their sickeningly high incombat hp regen topped of with nasty auto dps...

[Xibi]

Looks like the damage nerf / benefit is very minimal.   Merciless Charge is the "crumble" line.  It still does up to 800 dmg in 20 seconds if max'ed.  Not to mention how much you can get if you get critical strikes.

[Izzypop]

  A loss of 25 points in casting skills is  a lot.  That's 5 levels.  The implacations on PvP servers means a lot smack a yellow con caster with it and their root will now be at the skill level of a blue caster.  Much better than a tiny power drain.