Guardian FTW ?? No I don't think so...

minionofdeath · 12-10-2005, 03:10 AM

The solution to our problems is actually very simple. By problems I mean the following:Guardians are fine when it comes to tanking in raids and groups. Even with the much loathed (including me) taunt resists we can hold our own when it comes to tanking in raids/groups and so on. A few minor tweaks to some spells and this class is a great tanking class.Here's the problem. Guardians are not fine if they are not tanking. The keyword there is tanking. Unless we are tanking we are worthless to a raid. My group buffs of additional defense, atk and hit points are meaningless compared to actualy useful things like dps, heals, power regen etc. We have our "Protect" line of spells to intercept dmg for other people in the raid. In practice these work a little too good if you will and cause us to die faster than jumping in some lava. I don't know how many times I've taken the dmg meant for the MT on a raid, died, and then watched dead on the ground while the raid continues fighting the mob. You see I'm such a useless class that I only get a rez once the mob is dead or if they wipe and reform & try again. I've even had the honor of being the Raid Mob X AE guinea pig where I call out once the AE hits so everyone can come running in. I usually die from the AE and again am dead watching the raid continue on. I could write a book prob on the many ways to die as a Guardian not being a raid MT lol. Jokes aside, my usefullness if I'm not tanking is suicide on raids. I'm a Kamikaze so to speak. I hate this. Is this what SOE intended for me to do or have the abilities to do?I'm done playing as a Guardian. No dangling carrot of "we're looking into it" is going to keep my interest in this class anylonger. That leaves me with 3 decisions to make.1) Leave this game altogether.2) Re-roll a different class.3) Continue playing a Guardian.I truly feel SOE's vision of what a Guardian should be is what we are experiencing now. This "we're looking into it" notion will not bring the kind of results Iwe are hoping for. We will get a few tweaked spells of the "this spell will now do laughing dmg" nature, but nothing that will alter our class in anyway. How SOE can think that changing a few spells will make many dissatisfied people want to play this class again is a mystery. SOE's vision of a Guardian needs to change drastically before we see any affect at our end. I don't think this will ever happen.I have one suggestion for SOE. Why not give us a "severance" package with the ability to un-attune a handful of truly treasured items that we could take with us to our new character? You would end up keeping a customer instead of losing one.

minionofdeath · 12-10-2005, 09:07 AM

Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines.

Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM

Allowin · 12-10-2005, 02:13 PM

i made a 5 paragraph post on the pro's and cons of this update (most being cons)

but one of the brilliant forums mods decided that since i wasnt kissing the feet of the GM's who came up with these worthless updates, that he would delete the post.

bottom line of the update.

usless "fixes" and 1 fixing of a already broken spell

RafaelSmith · 12-10-2005, 07:37 PM

minionofdeath wrote:
Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines.
Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM

LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking.

Ratty31 · 12-10-2005, 11:29 PM

RafaelSmith wrote:

minionofdeath wrote:
Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...

Guardian changes:
- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.
- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.
- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.
- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.

There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines.

Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM

LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking.

You may need to read it again, we can now MOVE with hold the line skill.....Tower of stone damages the shield LESS now....Plant will now have LESS of a recast timer SHORTER cast time cost LESS power and not be BROKEN as often.

Nomore carrying 8 shields, and being able to move while tanking sounds good to me.

Sunrayn · 12-11-2005, 12:02 AM

Maddening defense at master2 is a 124% snare. On a 32% horse, it is a very slow jog. On foot with no run buffs, it is a heavily overburdened walk.

Quite a lot better than no movement at all

Sunrayn, 51 guardian--test

RafaelSmith · 12-11-2005, 01:52 AM

Ratty31 wrote:

RafaelSmith wrote:

minionofdeath wrote:
Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...Guardian changes:- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines.

Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM

LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking.

You may need to read it again, we can now MOVE with hold the line skill.....Tower of stone damages the shield LESS now....Plant will now have LESS of a recast timer SHORTER cast time cost LESS power and not be BROKEN as often.

Nomore carrying 8 shields, and being able to move while tanking sounds good to me.

This SOE were talking about...Snare will most likely be just shy of being rooted. Tower of Stone causing ANY dmg is stupid design, again this is SOE so LESS probably turns that 8 shields your carrying to 7. These are hardly changes that even remotely address fixing Guardians...and they [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure dont deserve us praising them for finally mentioning Guardian in a patch message. Sorry but they are still ignoring the class. They are not even throwing us bones its more like sunflower seeds.

Raahl · 12-12-2005, 08:23 AM

I have to agree with Rafael. Removal of the damage from Tower of Stone is the only way to fix it.

Being snared to where you are a hair from being rooted is also not the answer.

These are all steps in the right direction. Just too small of a steps.

DanielAtchison · 12-13-2005, 07:31 AM

yes these changes mean nothing SMILEY

they arent doing anything to fix our class at all. re-roll if you feel the need but i have stayed with my guardian and he has troubles sometimes but all in all hes good SMILEY

EvilIguana9 · 12-13-2005, 07:46 AM

My suggestion? Make tower shields stackable! SMILEY

Drulak · 12-13-2005, 06:49 PM

Ratty31 wrote:

RafaelSmith wrote:

minionofdeath wrote:
Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...

Guardian changes:
- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.
- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.
- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.
- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.

There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines.

Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM

LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking.

You may need to read it again, we can now MOVE with hold the line skill.....Tower of stone damages the shield LESS now....Plant will now have LESS of a recast timer SHORTER cast time cost LESS power and not be BROKEN as often.

Nomore carrying 8 shields, and being able to move while tanking sounds good to me.

No offense ratty but it was stated in another post that these updates are for the 60th guards who are tanking raids. for the rest of us (90%) they are utterly useless.

I have it down to a tee now clicking the madd defense on off , so being able to walk really slowly , will not make me tank better. I do not have ToS , sentry watch is useless to me so improving it is useless and entrench is no good when soloing . all in all 4 changes that mean nothing to the casual tank.

and before anyone says - you chose a guardian , so you should be a tank all the time , tell that to the other 5 fighter classes who get picked as a tank now before me please SMILEY

DevilWerks · 12-13-2005, 09:10 PM

I couldn't agree more, these changes are useless. SOE is not going to fix Guardians, that much is obvious. I"m looking into other games now, I'd rather spend my money on a game I enjoy.

Zendeil - 41 Guardian - Lavastorm

12-10-2005, 07:37 PM	#4
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	minionofdeath wrote: Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines. Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking. __________________

12-10-2005, 11:29 PM	#5
Ratty31 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 351	RafaelSmith wrote: minionofdeath wrote: Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted... Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer. There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines. Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking. You may need to read it again, we can now MOVE with hold the line skill.....Tower of stone damages the shield LESS now....Plant will now have LESS of a recast timer SHORTER cast time cost LESS power and not be BROKEN as often. Nomore carrying 8 shields, and being able to move while tanking sounds good to me.

12-11-2005, 01:52 AM	#7
RafaelSmith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,808	Ratty31 wrote: RafaelSmith wrote: minionofdeath wrote: Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...Guardian changes:- Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root.- Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level.- Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received.- Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines. Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking. You may need to read it again, we can now MOVE with hold the line skill.....Tower of stone damages the shield LESS now....Plant will now have LESS of a recast timer SHORTER cast time cost LESS power and not be BROKEN as often. Nomore carrying 8 shields, and being able to move while tanking sounds good to me. This SOE were talking about...Snare will most likely be just shy of being rooted. Tower of Stone causing ANY dmg is stupid design, again this is SOE so LESS probably turns that 8 shields your carrying to 7. These are hardly changes that even remotely address fixing Guardians...and they [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure dont deserve us praising them for finally mentioning Guardian in a patch message. Sorry but they are still ignoring the class. They are not even throwing us bones its more like sunflower seeds. __________________

12-12-2005, 08:23 AM	#8
Raahl Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,792	I have to agree with Rafael. Removal of the damage from Tower of Stone is the only way to fix it. Being snared to where you are a hair from being rooted is also not the answer. These are all steps in the right direction. Just too small of a steps. __________________ R.I.P. Najena Cougaar - 90 Dirge Corwin - 90 Guardian Raahl - 30 something Templar Kilped - 70'ish Ranger

12-13-2005, 07:31 AM	#9
DanielAtchison Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: VA Posts: 119	yes these changes mean nothing they arent doing anything to fix our class at all. re-roll if you feel the need but i have stayed with my guardian and he has troubles sometimes but all in all hes good

12-10-2005, 03:10 AM	#1
minionofdeath Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 94	The solution to our problems is actually very simple. By problems I mean the following:Guardians are fine when it comes to tanking in raids and groups. Even with the much loathed (including me) taunt resists we can hold our own when it comes to tanking in raids/groups and so on. A few minor tweaks to some spells and this class is a great tanking class.Here's the problem. Guardians are not fine if they are not tanking. The keyword there is tanking. Unless we are tanking we are worthless to a raid. My group buffs of additional defense, atk and hit points are meaningless compared to actualy useful things like dps, heals, power regen etc. We have our "Protect" line of spells to intercept dmg for other people in the raid. In practice these work a little too good if you will and cause us to die faster than jumping in some lava. I don't know how many times I've taken the dmg meant for the MT on a raid, died, and then watched dead on the ground while the raid continues fighting the mob. You see I'm such a useless class that I only get a rez once the mob is dead or if they wipe and reform & try again. I've even had the honor of being the Raid Mob X AE guinea pig where I call out once the AE hits so everyone can come running in. I usually die from the AE and again am dead watching the raid continue on. I could write a book prob on the many ways to die as a Guardian not being a raid MT lol. Jokes aside, my usefullness if I'm not tanking is suicide on raids. I'm a Kamikaze so to speak. I hate this. Is this what SOE intended for me to do or have the abilities to do?I'm done playing as a Guardian. No dangling carrot of "we're looking into it" is going to keep my interest in this class anylonger. That leaves me with 3 decisions to make.1) Leave this game altogether.2) Re-roll a different class.3) Continue playing a Guardian.I truly feel SOE's vision of what a Guardian should be is what we are experiencing now. This "we're looking into it" notion will not bring the kind of results Iwe are hoping for. We will get a few tweaked spells of the "this spell will now do laughing dmg" nature, but nothing that will alter our class in anyway. How SOE can think that changing a few spells will make many dissatisfied people want to play this class again is a mystery. SOE's vision of a Guardian needs to change drastically before we see any affect at our end. I don't think this will ever happen.I have one suggestion for SOE. Why not give us a "severance" package with the ability to un-attune a handful of truly treasured items that we could take with us to our new character? You would end up keeping a customer instead of losing one.

12-10-2005, 09:07 AM	#2
minionofdeath Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 94	Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted...Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer.There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines. Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM

12-10-2005, 02:13 PM	#3
Allowin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	i made a 5 paragraph post on the pro's and cons of this update (most being cons) but one of the brilliant forums mods decided that since i wasnt kissing the feet of the GM's who came up with these worthless updates, that he would delete the post. bottom line of the update. usless "fixes" and 1 fixing of a already broken spell

12-11-2005, 12:02 AM	#6
Sunrayn Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 498	Maddening defense at master2 is a 124% snare. On a 32% horse, it is a very slow jog. On foot with no run buffs, it is a heavily overburdened walk. Quite a lot better than no movement at all Sunrayn, 51 guardian--test

12-13-2005, 07:46 AM	#10
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	My suggestion? Make tower shields stackable!

12-13-2005, 06:49 PM	#11
Drulak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 234	Ratty31 wrote: RafaelSmith wrote: minionofdeath wrote: Well the LU18 update notes have just been posted... Guardian changes: - Goading Defense and its upgrades now place a heavy snare on the caster instead of a root. - Entrench now breaks less often, costs less power, has a reduced casting time, and has a shorter reuse timer. Its duration now increases with level. - Tower of Stone reduced the amount of shield damage received. - Sentry Watch now has a reduced casting time, a larger radius of effect, and a shorter reuse timer. There's our "we're looking into it" answer then. A few changes but mostly tweaks from what I see. The fundamental problem still remains. Guardians are one trick ponies. You either tank or watch from the sidelines. Message Edited by minionofdeath on 12-09-2005 08:15 PM LOL What a bunch meaningless changes. Proof again that I need some of whatever Moorgard and company are smoking. You may need to read it again, we can now MOVE with hold the line skill.....Tower of stone damages the shield LESS now....Plant will now have LESS of a recast timer SHORTER cast time cost LESS power and not be BROKEN as often. Nomore carrying 8 shields, and being able to move while tanking sounds good to me. No offense ratty but it was stated in another post that these updates are for the 60th guards who are tanking raids. for the rest of us (90%) they are utterly useless. I have it down to a tee now clicking the madd defense on off , so being able to walk really slowly , will not make me tank better. I do not have ToS , sentry watch is useless to me so improving it is useless and entrench is no good when soloing . all in all 4 changes that mean nothing to the casual tank. and before anyone says - you chose a guardian , so you should be a tank all the time , tell that to the other 5 fighter classes who get picked as a tank now before me please __________________ Zobiex 90 Bezerker -EX-Guardian Cyan 42 EX-provisioner Drulakx 90Reinstated EX-Alchemist Tattood 38Reinstated EX-Monk Zobios 90 Warlock

12-13-2005, 09:10 PM	#12
DevilWerks Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 29	I couldn't agree more, these changes are useless. SOE is not going to fix Guardians, that much is obvious. I"m looking into other games now, I'd rather spend my money on a game I enjoy. Zendeil - 41 Guardian - Lavastorm