My new hammer is broken

Hennyo · 09-08-2012, 12:55 AM

Tonight I got aITEM 1539439846 -691556995:Caragoth, Hammer of the Blight-Priests/a and then I went to my guild hall after raid and for about 40 minutes straight chain casted to see what the icon for the Deception of War buff was, and to my surprize, I never saw it proc even once. I was watching my character screen, and never saw my potency jump by more than amount from the other proc even once.

Avirodar · 09-08-2012, 01:28 AM

Try being in combat, with a target.

Hennyo · 09-08-2012, 01:47 AM

Avirodar@Oasis wrote:

Try being in combat, with a target.

Thanks, I got it to proc, but it still seems broken, I'll explain.

The proc says it is supposed to work on both "on hit" and "on a spell cast", it currently only seems to work at all with "on hit" right now, and either it should be fixed, or have the proc description changed.

EDIT: Why this is important, this means unlike other items with the "on a spell cast" trigger, this one does not work on heals.

Kander · 09-08-2012, 04:41 AM

Hennyo wrote:

Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
Try being in combat, with a target.
Thanks, I got it to proc, but it still seems broken, I'll explain.
The proc says it is supposed to work on both "on hit" and "on a spell cast", it currently only seems to work at all with "on hit" right now, and either it should be fixed, or have the proc description changed.
EDIT: Why this is important, this means unlike other items with the "on a spell cast" trigger, this one does not work on heals.

I'll take a look at it tomorrow. It should probably use on any hit and on cast beneficial spell.

Will try to get it adjusted ASAP.

Kreton · 09-08-2012, 01:12 PM

Hennyo wrote:

EDIT: Why this is important, this means unlike other items with the "on a spell cast" trigger, this one does not work on heals.

It procs fine on nondamaging debuffs. The proc itself does damage to the target, so the simple reason it wont proc on beneficial is because that would make no sense. Perhaps the proc should just change to add a special nondamaging proc for beneficial casts.

Mermut · 09-08-2012, 02:05 PM

It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already. It can't do the damage proc on a healing spell because the damage proc is on the target of your spell cast. Well.. unless you really don't like your tank and want to hit him/her with the damage proc SMILEY

Kreton · 09-08-2012, 02:15 PM

Mermut wrote:

It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already.

That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it.

Mermut · 09-08-2012, 05:20 PM

Kreton wrote:

Mermut wrote:
It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already.
That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it.

I understand.. I'm just suggesting that since there is already a proc on a heal, it doesn't really make sense to add a second proc on heal...

Kreton · 09-08-2012, 06:55 PM

Mermut wrote:

Kreton wrote:
Mermut wrote:
It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already.
That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it.
I understand.. I'm just suggesting that since there is already a proc on a heal, it doesn't really make sense to add a second proc on heal...

Why does it not make sense? There are other priest 2 handers with seperate procs both with "on heal" triggers. Not to mention there are many other 2 handers with 2 seperate procs for "on hit".

Kander · 09-09-2012, 05:50 PM

Kreton wrote:

Mermut wrote:
Kreton wrote:
Mermut wrote:
It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already.
That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it.
I understand.. I'm just suggesting that since there is already a proc on a heal, it doesn't really make sense to add a second proc on heal...
Why does it not make sense? There are other priest 2 handers with seperate procs both with "on heal" triggers. Not to mention there are many other 2 handers with 2 seperate procs for "on hit".

Prophetic Shield is a seprate effect. Currently it is flagged as On Cast Heal. I've changed that to On Cast Beneficial Spell.

Deception of War is now On Any Hit and On Cast Beneficial spell. I increased the proc chance a bit as well. Will have the change in for Tuesday if possible.

Hennyo · 09-09-2012, 05:57 PM

Thanks a ton Kander.

Kreton · 09-11-2012, 12:07 PM

Well the beneficial proc of Deception of War still has the "damage on target" part on it, so it still wont proc on beneficial spells.

Kander · 09-11-2012, 02:43 PM

It is procing for me fine. How are you going about testing it?

Kreton · 09-11-2012, 03:09 PM

Spam casting every beneficial/healing spell I have and the only proc that ever comes up is Prophetic Shield, which is the only time my potency increases. I can cast a few attacks on something and easily see deception but it is not proc'ing at all off beneficial spell I cast.

Kreton · 09-11-2012, 03:32 PM

And just to make sure, stripped all my gear, in combat with an epic test dummy and another group member and Deception of War still only procs from attacks and not any beneficial spells. Prophetic Shield is proc'ing fine on beneficial but not Deception of War. No potency or power replenish increase at all from it on benficial. Now on attacks it is working as expected. This is also on a PVE server, so maybe it works different on PVP since the actual proc would do damage to players if it proc'd on beneficial.

Hennyo · 09-11-2012, 09:27 PM

Yeah I just was testing it myself as well, still doesn't proc on benefical at all. With a target, without a target, in combat or out of combat, it doesn't proc at all with heals. It does still proc from combat arts and spells and such like it should tho.

Kander · 09-12-2012, 06:44 PM

Hennyo wrote:

Yeah I just was testing it myself as well, still doesn't proc on benefical at all. With a target, without a target, in combat or out of combat, it doesn't proc at all with heals. It does still proc from combat arts and spells and such like it should tho.

Unfortunately, Deception of War being a hostile spell, it will only know who to target on hostile actions. After looking at it further, this proc is only going to proc on a hostile trigger.

Sorry to get your hopes up, however the other proc works on Beneficial spells.

Hennyo · 09-12-2012, 07:29 PM

Kander wrote:

Hennyo wrote:
Yeah I just was testing it myself as well, still doesn't proc on benefical at all. With a target, without a target, in combat or out of combat, it doesn't proc at all with heals. It does still proc from combat arts and spells and such like it should tho.
Unfortunately, Deception of War being a hostile spell, it will only know who to target on hostile actions. After looking at it further, this proc is only going to proc on a hostile trigger.
Sorry to get your hopes up, however the other proc works on Beneficial spells.

Yeah no problem then, just my like my original post said, just change the proc description to not make it look like it includes beneficial casts.

Kreton · 09-12-2012, 07:32 PM

The proc needs to then be changed so it works again on nondamaging debuffs, which is what it did when it was "on spell cast". Now it only procs on damage attacks.

Hennyo · 09-12-2012, 08:06 PM

Kreton wrote:

The proc needs to then be changed so it works again on nondamaging debuffs, which is what it did when it was "on spell cast". Now it only procs on damage attacks.

I won't disagree with this, my intention was to never nerf this item, what the proc should say is "on hit" and "hostile spell cast" which includes nondamaging debuffs.

09-08-2012, 01:28 AM	#2
Avirodar Server: Oasis Guild: Tyranny Rank: Champion Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,035	Try being in combat, with a target. __________________ Templar of Oasis

09-08-2012, 01:47 AM	#3
Hennyo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 371	Avirodar@Oasis wrote: Try being in combat, with a target. Thanks, I got it to proc, but it still seems broken, I'll explain. The proc says it is supposed to work on both "on hit" and "on a spell cast", it currently only seems to work at all with "on hit" right now, and either it should be fixed, or have the proc description changed. EDIT: Why this is important, this means unlike other items with the "on a spell cast" trigger, this one does not work on heals.

09-08-2012, 04:41 AM	#4
Kander Game Dev Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 660	Hennyo wrote: Avirodar@Oasis wrote: Try being in combat, with a target. Thanks, I got it to proc, but it still seems broken, I'll explain. The proc says it is supposed to work on both "on hit" and "on a spell cast", it currently only seems to work at all with "on hit" right now, and either it should be fixed, or have the proc description changed. EDIT: Why this is important, this means unlike other items with the "on a spell cast" trigger, this one does not work on heals. I'll take a look at it tomorrow. It should probably use on any hit and on cast beneficial spell. Will try to get it adjusted ASAP. __________________ <img src="http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7049/kandersignatureskyshrin.jpg">

09-08-2012, 01:12 PM	#5
Kreton Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 222	Hennyo wrote: EDIT: Why this is important, this means unlike other items with the "on a spell cast" trigger, this one does not work on heals. It procs fine on nondamaging debuffs. The proc itself does damage to the target, so the simple reason it wont proc on beneficial is because that would make no sense. Perhaps the proc should just change to add a special nondamaging proc for beneficial casts.

09-08-2012, 02:05 PM	#6
Mermut Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 852	It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already. It can't do the damage proc on a healing spell because the damage proc is on the target of your spell cast. Well.. unless you really don't like your tank and want to hit him/her with the damage proc __________________ I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, But not hang it by the neck until dead.

09-08-2012, 12:55 AM	#1
Hennyo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 371	Tonight I got aITEM 1539439846 -691556995:Caragoth, Hammer of the Blight-Priests/a and then I went to my guild hall after raid and for about 40 minutes straight chain casted to see what the icon for the Deception of War buff was, and to my surprize, I never saw it proc even once. I was watching my character screen, and never saw my potency jump by more than amount from the other proc even once.

09-08-2012, 02:15 PM	#7
Kreton Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 222	Mermut wrote: It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already. That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it.

09-08-2012, 05:20 PM	#8
Mermut Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 852	Kreton wrote: Mermut wrote: It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already. That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it. I understand.. I'm just suggesting that since there is already a proc on a heal, it doesn't really make sense to add a second proc on heal... __________________ I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, But not hang it by the neck until dead.

09-08-2012, 06:55 PM	#9
Kreton Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 222	Mermut wrote: Kreton wrote: Mermut wrote: It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already. That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it. I understand.. I'm just suggesting that since there is already a proc on a heal, it doesn't really make sense to add a second proc on heal... Why does it not make sense? There are other priest 2 handers with seperate procs both with "on heal" triggers. Not to mention there are many other 2 handers with 2 seperate procs for "on hit".

09-09-2012, 05:50 PM	#10
Kander Game Dev Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 660	Kreton wrote: Mermut wrote: Kreton wrote: Mermut wrote: It's got a benificial buff on healing spell already. That's a completely seperate proc, Prophetic Shield. The post is about adding a beneficial proc to Deception of War since on spell cast can't proc on beneficial casts because of the damage attached to it. I understand.. I'm just suggesting that since there is already a proc on a heal, it doesn't really make sense to add a second proc on heal... Why does it not make sense? There are other priest 2 handers with seperate procs both with "on heal" triggers. Not to mention there are many other 2 handers with 2 seperate procs for "on hit". Prophetic Shield is a seprate effect. Currently it is flagged as On Cast Heal. I've changed that to On Cast Beneficial Spell. Deception of War is now On Any Hit and On Cast Beneficial spell. I increased the proc chance a bit as well. Will have the change in for Tuesday if possible. __________________ <img src="http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7049/kandersignatureskyshrin.jpg">

09-09-2012, 05:57 PM	#11
Hennyo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 371	Thanks a ton Kander.

09-11-2012, 12:07 PM	#12
Kreton Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 222	Well the beneficial proc of Deception of War still has the "damage on target" part on it, so it still wont proc on beneficial spells.

09-11-2012, 02:43 PM	#13
Kander Game Dev Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 660	It is procing for me fine. How are you going about testing it? __________________ <img src="http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7049/kandersignatureskyshrin.jpg">

09-11-2012, 03:09 PM	#14
Kreton Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 222	Spam casting every beneficial/healing spell I have and the only proc that ever comes up is Prophetic Shield, which is the only time my potency increases. I can cast a few attacks on something and easily see deception but it is not proc'ing at all off beneficial spell I cast.

09-11-2012, 03:32 PM	#15
Kreton Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 222	And just to make sure, stripped all my gear, in combat with an epic test dummy and another group member and Deception of War still only procs from attacks and not any beneficial spells. Prophetic Shield is proc'ing fine on beneficial but not Deception of War. No potency or power replenish increase at all from it on benficial. Now on attacks it is working as expected. This is also on a PVE server, so maybe it works different on PVP since the actual proc would do damage to players if it proc'd on beneficial.

09-11-2012, 09:27 PM	#16
Hennyo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 371	Yeah I just was testing it myself as well, still doesn't proc on benefical at all. With a target, without a target, in combat or out of combat, it doesn't proc at all with heals. It does still proc from combat arts and spells and such like it should tho.

09-12-2012, 06:44 PM	#17
Kander Game Dev Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 660	Hennyo wrote: Yeah I just was testing it myself as well, still doesn't proc on benefical at all. With a target, without a target, in combat or out of combat, it doesn't proc at all with heals. It does still proc from combat arts and spells and such like it should tho. Unfortunately, Deception of War being a hostile spell, it will only know who to target on hostile actions. After looking at it further, this proc is only going to proc on a hostile trigger. Sorry to get your hopes up, however the other proc works on Beneficial spells. __________________ <img src="http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7049/kandersignatureskyshrin.jpg">

09-12-2012, 07:29 PM	#18
Hennyo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 371	Kander wrote: Hennyo wrote: Yeah I just was testing it myself as well, still doesn't proc on benefical at all. With a target, without a target, in combat or out of combat, it doesn't proc at all with heals. It does still proc from combat arts and spells and such like it should tho. Unfortunately, Deception of War being a hostile spell, it will only know who to target on hostile actions. After looking at it further, this proc is only going to proc on a hostile trigger. Sorry to get your hopes up, however the other proc works on Beneficial spells. Yeah no problem then, just my like my original post said, just change the proc description to not make it look like it includes beneficial casts.

09-12-2012, 07:32 PM	#19
Kreton Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 222	The proc needs to then be changed so it works again on nondamaging debuffs, which is what it did when it was "on spell cast". Now it only procs on damage attacks.

09-12-2012, 08:06 PM	#20
Hennyo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 371	Kreton wrote: The proc needs to then be changed so it works again on nondamaging debuffs, which is what it did when it was "on spell cast". Now it only procs on damage attacks. I won't disagree with this, my intention was to never nerf this item, what the proc should say is "on hit" and "hostile spell cast" which includes nondamaging debuffs.