So since the dev's are looking at aa

[Rosvita]

Here is my personal write up on my thoughts on warden aa's figured we may as well show dev's what we are using and what we aren't:

Warden AA'sSo since its been said that they are gonna be looking at aa's I thought it worthwhile creating a thread about whats good and whats bad in the warden aa choices.Druid treeShapeshift - Nice small bonus for whichever choice you make can't really complainPrimordial Strike Line (STR)This line is pretty nice although at higher levels Natural Boon isn't really worth taking, most wardens just put 2 points here to open primordial strike upTortoise Shell Line (AGI)Calm Animals and Charm Animals are possibly the worse aa choices in game, they are very limited and charm animals takes up 3 con slots, I'm sure some pvp wardens may use this but PvE wise this is a complete waste of aa points that every raiding druid in game uses due to Wild Regeneration and Tortoise Shell which are both highly useful AA's.Serenity Line (STA)Overall this line isn't bad, would be nice to see more use for serene symbol outside of PvP however i can live with putting 4 points here to get the rest of the line.Rebirth Line (WIS)Some druids love this line, others hate it, Hierophant's Grasp is very useful for both druid classes and some people like the rest of the line too, overall not a overally bad line compared to some.Infusion Line (INT)This is another pretty nice line, not everyone takes it but for those that do they love it, stormvision is another meh ability but when you only need to put 2 points in it to get the endline no one is complaining.SF LineSome very nice choices here especially Wild Protection.Warden TreeNature's Walk LineThere is nothing really bad in this line and all wardens tend to take this line.Force of Nature LineThe Combat Art Conversions are nice especially at lower levels however with less melee stats avaliable to priests alot of wardens are starting to use range specs however they still take this line cause its 100% better than the shatter infection line and 0.3 auto-attack modifier is very nice.Reformation LineThis is a pretty nice line nothing that makes you go wow but everyone still takes it.Shatter Infection LineOther than Enhance Cure Curse this entire could be scrapped, I don't know any wardens who take this line at all.SF LineSame as on druid tree some nice choices although I would still like to see cyclone made castable on a raid member.Shadows TreeThere are some meh abilities here but nothing really bad.Heroic TreeBeing the new tree this is pretty much fine the way it is although not many druids are taking faith of the fallen.Some things that would be nice to see for wardens are:A way to make instinct groupwide or other offensive groupwide utilityMake cyclone castable on a raid friendWhat are everyone else's thoughts do you disagree with anything I've put, lets put ours thoughts together while soe are looking at the aa's

[Xillean]

I like all of what you said personally. Id like to see both Natural Boon and Stormcallers Renewal Proc Hot's instead of a direct grp heal, but prehaps thast asking for to much.

Like you said Natural Boon needs a increase in its healing if nothing else. Or leave it at its current value and make it where if you spend a full 10 in it it converts said amount to a Grp ward. I dont think that would be to over powered at its current value.

Our cure line is crap, There should be options to add a decent grp heal amount to both our grp cures and id be happy tbh. and no not the 300 or w/e hot it currently gets on the one cure, but maybe say 900 at least plus the hot? As far as the endline goes, they could make it where we can cast the ability and it frees our grp of all control effects and/or hostile effects and put it on a longer recast. I know we have breaks with howling and Sereinty, but just these few changes would give the line some life.

Or they can get rid of the cure line, just have a single aa to enhance our cures like our fury kin gets and give us some way to make Instinct Group wide. Please if any devs really read this I beg you consdier this, its been asked for for years, dont ingore us, its not like it would be op in any way especailly compared to what other healers get and really would make use wanted in raids, would be great for a scout grp imo.

I really think thats all we need, some way via aa to make our instinct grp wide and that alone would give us a much need boost in desireability in raids imo. And if you didnt know devs once the expac is broken in and in a lot of cases not even then, besides rare times you need three healers in mt grp we are benched for other healers who provide more.

And please before people start coming in here saying we are great healers and etc and we are DEFENISVE note I didnt ask for anything offensive for ourselves, I asked to make our abilties more in line with DOV content and for some much needed grp Utility.

[Xillean]

And not to derail, but this is sad, where are my fellow Wardens at? Its sad when Rosvita who is now a Fury (yes im aware you made a warden though ) Is the only one who is trying to spear head some changes for us, Are we the only two Wardens left? I know on Nagafen other then for pvp purposes it seems like wardens are extinct other then my own. I see a ton of Furies, and dont get me wrong, our fury kin needed love and a lot of it and im happy they got it, but im really hoping some dev listens to our pleas and helps us out.

We didnt even ask for much imo, just a few simple things and we would be good to go. I know it proably wont happen with Instinct, cant tell you how many times ive feed backed it And I know many have in the past, if a dev could at least say theyed look into it or flat out tell us no id rather that then being ingored. Come on Wardens pitch in, post your ideas like the op asked, Since the devs are looking at AA's theres a faint hope we can maybe get some needed changes if we have more voices weigh in!

[NolaDragon]

Hey hey, slow down Mayladen, you gota realize 8 days for response aint really that long.  And maybe some others are needing some time to ponder.

I gota say though Rosvita has done some awesome posting on the warden.  And I will never consider her a hissy kitty fury.  LOL

Off the top of my head based on what most people ask or complain about , and also it might make some sort of sense in a realism sort of way ~

What if charm animal had a group side effect that was similar to instinct?  

One of the reasons we hear nothing on a group instinct imo , is game mechanically it could potentially be to powerful.

But what if we had another version via a charmed pet? sorta like a shaman pet I suppose , possibly activateable by the mez animal ability for a short duration and based on ranks for potency and duration.

Just a ruff Idea that popped into my head.  But I'd totally forget about it if they decided to consider the ole ~Forrest of Terror~ idea 

[Xillean]

YAY we arent alone I know 8 days isnt to long but the clock is ticking just want to see some ideas a going. As far as Instinct goes even group wide it wouldnt be anywhere near Fantascim levels from the inq. Yeah I know it has a pwoer drain, they could add a power drain to ours to give it a determent though we dont run out of power due to myth neither does a ing with Inquest on a scout for example.

As far as your idea goes, I like it, personally id like to see them changed to effect our fae ally and the tree, make them aoe immune and give some increased healing or upgrade thier healing output. Or Id love to see both be turned into a enhance fae ally, the first with 10 spent could make the fae ally a perment summoned pet with aoe immune, and the other can increase the heals of the fae and enhance its abilties, nothing to ubber, but that is something id love to see personaly.

[Prestissimo]

Rosvita@Runnyeye wrote:

Druid tree

Shapeshift - Nice small bonus for whichever choice you make can't really complain

I would like the numbers to be increased a LITTLE bit beyond what it is atm. For example, the base heal is ok, the crit chance could stand to be 5% with the gross inflation of stats lately, and the melee proc could be either say 25% chance to proc, or maybe 1/2 the current amount but it procs on every attack (since theres extremely few choices for fast weapons cap level or not and our combat art spec cool downs are pretty hindering for increased procs, which combined renders this mostly a solo/leveling choice. We have pretty decent leveling, but given the choice that you're giving up crit chance or base healing, it could stand to be upped a bit to compete with one of the weaker attacks OR about the same as dawnstrike that procs on 1/4 of your attacks.) At high levels, that would be absolutely no where near game breaking, and would make the solo mobs go down at a more reasonable pace. Leveling and questing with healers is a serious time sink, and imo making soloing solo content a little less painful would at least help make that less of a deterent to those considering playing a healer.

Primordial Strike Line (STR)

This line is pretty nice although at higher levels Natural Boon isn't really worth taking, most wardens just put 2 points here to open primordial strike up

I'd like to see the heal procs compete with the melee line. The idea here is to give the option to be either melee or caster and have something similar on either pathway, and not be completely punished hps wise for doing some dps. This procs more often, but it feels like total hps wise the casting version gives better return for points invested. Mostly because again we do not have as fast of an attack speed anymore.

Tortoise Shell Line (AGI)

Calm Animals and Charm Animals are possibly the worse aa choices in game, they are very limited and charm animals takes up 3 con slots, I'm sure some pvp wardens may use this but PvE wise this is a complete waste of aa points that every raiding druid in game uses due to Wild Regeneration and Tortoise Shell which are both highly useful AA's.

1,000% agree, although have no idea what could be put into this line instead.

Serenity Line (STA)

Overall this line isn't bad, would be nice to see more use for serene symbol outside of PvP however i can live with putting 4 points here to get the rest of the line.

I'd personally like to see serene symbol dropped to 1% power per dispell, or if it does stay at 2%, allow it to dispell more than just spell based beneficial effects. I use it periodically as it is, but would definately put it on a hot bar if it was capable of dispelling more than just periodically one relatively lame buff on a mob. Would also like to see scerene knowledge a 4 second duration and scerene focus give a little bit more crit chance since it's a relatively low rate for that many points and crit chance is now a scaling value the longer the current itemization exists. When we need 400% crit chance, a lowly 16% crit for 10 aa points is going to be down right insulting. (for those naysayers, we went from 100% last expansion to mid level and entry level raids needing nearly 200% crit chance levels. At that same rate, we'll be looking at 400% next expansion not counting level increase and what ever gimicks that brings.)

Rebirth Line (WIS)

Some druids love this line, others hate it, Hierophant's Grasp is very useful for both druid classes and some people like the rest of the line too, overall not a overally bad line compared to some.

Some people like it, imo it's a second death in 99% of occations. Would make me re-evaluate scerenity line if the vast majority of the time this line's main use was not simply to get squished then as everyone else is falling and you get rebirthed to hit a tinkered FD to avoid having to do the walk of shame.

Infusion Line (INT)

This is another pretty nice line, not everyone takes it but for those that do they love it, stormvision is another meh ability but when you only need to put 2 points in it to get the endline no one is complaining.

The main reason stormvision is meh is because having a theoretical higher chance to hit because of skills does not really play out to the value that it should. My wizzy is beyond hard capped on disruption and when a level 93 resists 3 times in a row a mastered fusion fully aa buffed with illuminate from the illy running, that does not exactly instill confidence that the skills are working as they should be. Maybe "as intended" because we all know soe has a hard-on against casters this expansion, but definately not as it should be working. If having the extra 70ish points of those skills actually reflected my skills being the appropriate amount more difficult to resist, then it'd be worth taking. Until then, pretty meh.

SF Line

Some very nice choices here especially Wild Protection.

Would like to see Wild Protection boosted to a 3% or 4% damage reduction since the biggest problem wardens face is preventing one shots. Unless this stacks with itself on multiple heals (which idk if it does or not, but from what I've seen I believe it doesn't) 2% damage reduction only while 2 heal over time spells are running for 8 points is really not something to write home about or really even get excited about. It does help, it's just not a "must have" and thats saying something if every warden wants anything that helps with reducing the posibilities of a one shot and not every warden takes this.

Warden TreeNature's Walk LineThere is nothing really bad in this line and all wardens tend to take this line.

Snare. That ability is worthless outside of a very very select scenario, and the aa is even more worthless.Force of Nature LineThe Combat Art Conversions are nice especially at lower levels however with less melee stats avaliable to priests alot of wardens are starting to use range specs however they still take this line cause its 100% better than the shatter infection line and 0.3 auto-attack modifier is very nice.

IDK, I use shatter infections on certain fights that have been known to once in a while throw out very inopportunely close together multiple dets that need curing quickly and not everyone can get a pot off in time for that last cure. That said, the combat arts need to have a slightly lower reuse time. I understand that they put out about the same dps due to the casting + reuse spell version = casting + reuse ca version, but really with resists, parries, blocks, etc, it makes the CA version a bit worse than spell version. It's not much, just a little bit. Either that, or boost the damage up a bit until skills mean literally the exact value they are supposed to mean.

Reformation Line

This is a pretty nice line nothing that makes you go wow but everyone still takes it.

Only because the alternatives are pretty much non-existant and you need x amount of points spent to get into the other good stuff in other places. IMO, healer deathsaves suck in general, if you're resorting to using them either you have a omg hit on a near perfect timer, or have a time when you just plain know someone is going to eat dirt. Either way, the death saves are rarely going to be that critical or reliable. For that reason, I don't justify the endline in this tree. If the heal and possibly the duration were better, I'd probably use them. The palm tree aa is pretty much pointless as 3 points in it and my reuse is up before the tree's duration is and i have pretty lame gear, aspect of the bat is only really useful for the agi or avoidance now, spores is a good one, and since I have to get to it to get to spores, I guess i'll take improvements to my rezes. The main reason they're meh imo is scaling.

Shatter Infection LineOther than Enhance Cure Curse this entire could be scrapped, I don't know any wardens who take this line at all.

Personally, I use it, and I like the heal tacked onto every cure and my group cure, and tbh if you're a warden and are not curing or using it, you're not doing it right. I don't know a single warden that does not spec it when they're serious about healing. Wardens get more cures than shamen or clerics who would be in group with us, and when I'm on my cleric or shaman, I really appreciate having a druid in the group, especially one who can both cure the det and restore the damage dealt by minor aoes (which usually have not very nice effects if left uncured) simply with one group cure. On my warden, curing makes up a huge portion of my hps parse (not nessecarily in raw hps every time, but I spend a lot of time doing cures, so it usually puts up some really good numbers). Also, imo the cure curse part is the most worthless simply because curses usually will come up faster than my cure curse will and the effect usually isn't instant death if it takes a little longer to cure it like alot of the other dets are (however thats from non-HM raiding view point). Every healer I've come across that uses the heals upon cure, ends up not specing out of it other than for their solo spec, and tbh even then it's because they want their death save more than heals tacked onto cures for when they're soloing mobs that have one shot abilities. The shatter infections endline does leave something to be desired, but imo the rest of the line is pretty ok.

SF Line

Same as on druid tree some nice choices although I would still like to see cyclone made castable on a raid member.

I would also like to see skin of wood a bit bigger. With shamen hitting group wards for 40-60k, [Removed for Content] would I do with a ward that barely eats a thorn-skin proc? Again, it helps, but given another choice that didn't suck, it wouldn't imo be worth the 5 points. If it were somewhere between 50%-100% larger than currently, I'd be totally content with it. At that point it's not getting beat by the troubador's raid wide elemental/arcane resistance buffs that each get a regenerating ward, and tbh their ward is perfect just the way it is. It helps on the fights with periodic hard hitting ele/arc based aoes but doesn't take away from the healers jobs; just makes it easier for the squishies to eat the shot and not dirt nap.

Shadows Tree

There are some meh abilities here but nothing really bad.

IMO, the resistance boosts on the group buffs in the priest line could use a bit of improvement. ATM, 5 points for an increase of 434 resist on a cap level master buff? Really? I can hard cap that resist self buffed with just jewelry. All gear said and done in raid buffs, even eating a 20k resist reduction on that same stat and my warden will still be at the hard cap of 75% damage reduction on that resist. 434 resist for 5 whole points? Pass. Would be far better off putting it in the first spot of the druid tree for an extra 40 hp per point. The same applies to every one of the priests on both of the mit increase aas of the priest line on shadows page.

Heroic Tree

Being the new tree this is pretty much fine the way it is although not many druids are taking faith of the fallen.

I'd like the reuse reduction to beneficial spells to be a 2 parter. A 1% reuse reduction per point, and another 1% if in heal stance or perhaps some casting speed if that is too much. As it stands, there is really very little casting speed on most priest gear once you get into the higher caliber gear. Ry'gorr has none, easy mode raid gear has almost straight only reuse time reduction with a few exceptions, and most jewelry starts losing casting speed for reuse speed one step before you enter raid loot. The hard mode stuff seems to have more of it from what I've seen from looking up the links and what not.While I appreciate how much easier it is to get reuse speed in DoV than it was in previous expansions, the casting speed is equally as important. A lot of the cures with effects that nuke if not cured in time need to be cured off so fast as it is right now that having a high casting speed is absolutely mandatory regardless of what our heals need. The very design you devs put into this expansions content requires casting speed to be very high, and you're putting in tons of gear without casting speed enhancements AND with really poor drop rates? What is it that you have against healers? It's been this way since TSO and alot of healers do not like it. TBH, I have to shelf all of mine periodically just so I don't rage quit over the blatant and deliberate efforts taken to make healers lives harder.There is so much to remember when it comes to cure this, don't cure that, pot this because if the healer cures you it will kill us all (lolz had in soe dev room over how many people fell for that one), mem-wipers go RIGHT after the healers due to the nature of the system, have to have pretty fast reaction time for some of these short timer super nuke dets, etc. If the healer doesn't know completely about the zone and mobs, it's equally as bad as if the tank doesn't know the zone or the mobs. Not the case for the dps and largely for the utility.

Anyway, thats my thoughts on everything.

I'm only doing easy mode raids and solo healing every dov instance spare the drunders (simply because I'm playing my wizzy more at this current time when doing stuff like that), and tbh can't speak about it from a hm raiding perspective.

[NolaDragon]

I totally forgot about the Fairy ally xillean.

But something with pet charm happening  ... maybe a heroic enhance option.

Basically we trade 3 concentration for the upgrade , we need to charm an animal to get it , or mez ... enhance mez wouldnt be bad either.  But maybe throw the mez out and introduce a new ability relateing to pets and our other abilitys.  IDK   maybe sumthin totally different?

Ofcourse im crazy and I dont know what im talking about , But the forrest of terror would be awesome...  http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...181430&#2000685

[Xillean]

I forgot to add that if it bumped uo our fae ally the same would be done for the furies Ball lighting though that would mean if both helped our fae both would help thier ball lighting since they dont have another pet im aware of like we got the tree.

Still good ideas im seeing, we may not always agree with each other but as a community we have to try and get some changes made.

[Valonia]

Whatever you do to change the AA trees SoE ... do not touch my permanent, undispellable Tiger form!

.. Seriously! .. Remove it's stats and add it as fluff spell if you have to, but if you remove or change it into something else, I'll quit. For good! Rawr!!!

[gatrm]

TBH I'd be happy if they'd just add the option to spend 5 AA to make Instinct Group wide.  Heck, I would spend 10. 

I don't expect it to happen, and I'm rather apathetic at the moment, but I essentially agree with Rosvita's OP.  Would be nice if the Devs tore apart the KOS tree like they seem to be doing with the EOF tree, take out the webbing and prerequisites, and allow us to take certain abilities like Wild Regeneration and Tortoise Shell without having to take the useless charm and mez.  That way those druids who are unable to solo effectively on their own can continue to get the pets that I disdain because of their uselessness.

[Xillean]

Yeah id like that as well tbh. And id spend 10 for grp wide instinct as well, just give us a option devs, make it cost a bit, make it cost a lot, I dont care just give us the option.

[NolaDragon]

Thats what Im saying ... you have to charm a pet to get it ... does it make sense?

Maybe a heroic option to turn charm animal into a group buff

Basically you charm a pet and it is better than a shaman one , because you give up 3 concentration for it.

I suppose depending on the pet , you would get a different group buff???

[NolaDragon]

The Mez animal option should probably be changed.

To what though???  

Any Ideas?

[NolaDragon]

Could be atleast 3 different group buffs ... and a buff similar to group wide instinct could be one of them.   I would say the pet would have to be a cat.  meow

[Xillean]

Hmm Problem with charm animal there isnt always a animal to charm, in zones and raids and etc, now if it where to work like the corecer possess essence it might be slightly better but only if what we copied staid with us upon zoning. I would rather them just make our fae ally permenant and let it provide your grp buff idea

Would be even better if it provided some small boost to a entire raid like the summoners pet oes, but really something to give us grp instinct or something like it and making our current pets worth something would be good for me, dont care how they do it just do it dev pwease!

[Tigress]

Prestissimo@Butcherblock wrote:

Rosvita@Runnyeye wrote:

Druid tree

Rebirth Line (WIS)

Some druids love this line, others hate it, Hierophant's Grasp is very useful for both druid classes and some people like the rest of the line too, overall not a overally bad line compared to some.

Some people like it, imo it's a second death in 99% of occations. Would make me re-evaluate scerenity line if the vast majority of the time this line's main use was not simply to get squished then as everyone else is falling and you get rebirthed to hit a tinkered FD to avoid having to do the walk of shame.

rebirth is very useful.  you just have to get to know it and understand it.  if you are with a bad tank, go ahead and hit that revive button & then shut it off.  if it was an accidental bad pull & you watch nearly everyone else die, you back out of the aggro range and take your death.  then you get up and revive the group.  if everyone died while you were dying, you quickly move out of the way before the mob realizes that you are alive again.  when i first started using rebirth, it was mostly two deaths per their one.  now, its not.  at times, i may end up dying more than the others but thats bc my death comes and then i can hit them with an emergency group heal so they dont die.  it would really stink if they removed this AA.

the calm animals & charm animal, yes please get rid of it!

[Vitriol]

Xillean@Nagafen wrote:

where are my fellow Wardens at? Its sad when Rosvita who is now a Fury (yes im aware you made a warden though ) Is the only one who is trying to spear head some changes for us, Are we the only two Wardens left? 

You've missed all the chatter in WWWarden channel since Nagafen players can't use it....

[Xillean]

/sad panda I really really wish They would let us naggy players join would love to talk to some of you guys and gals, I read lot and study the parses and etc on the other site, proably should make a account and stop lurking. But still wish I could talk to wardens but since I cant this is the best I get to do ftl.

[SOE-MOD-04]

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=50011...post_id=5594164 Removed for trolling

[Odys]

Vitriol@Splitpaw wrote:

Xillean@Nagafen wrote:

where are my fellow Wardens at? Its sad when Rosvita who is now a Fury (yes im aware you made a warden though ) Is the only one who is trying to spear head some changes for us, Are we the only two Wardens left? 

You've missed all the chatter in WWWarden channel since Nagafen players can't use it....

I send really a lot of feed back to the Dev about wardens. The class is going extinct. I never ever saw a raiding guild recruiting one. But i see dayly calls for furies/inquis and defilers and a bit less often for mystics.

The two healers that i never ever see being recruited are templar and warden.

The problem is that an offensive healer like an inquisitor provide enough healing a way way more buff than a poor templar with a single group cure.

The current mess is extreme, an inquisitor bring more safety to his group than a templar because it has a second cure that can be cast even while running/flying.

A furie bring more safety than a warden  to her group because she can use hibernate before an aoe hit and porcupine. Moreover a furie is inherently 10% stronger just with her self 10% potency buf. Now, add on the top massive HOT coming from any cure (SF fury aa) and very good buf for mage dps and you can simply delete the warden class.

I m quite sure that nobody plays a templar or a warden in san diego.

What i would like is a clear and official statement claiming that those 2 classes are discontunued and allowing us hencefore to betray without loosing any gear and while keeping the amount of masters we had in the "deleted" class.

PS: We are in a better shape than templars, at least i m not affected much by mana drains and i have 2 group cure + aoe blocker. Templars are currently a joke -- inquis get shield ally too --

[NolaDragon]

I dont think anybody needs to turn in their warden wings

Im guessing if your here complaining about it (unless your name is gtram) err how ever you spell his name

That you aint a Warden ... So maybe try the Asssass group.   cuz you aint no ranger either.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

So why not have an AA option involving pet charm and group instinct?

Take the most valuable buff we wardens consider ... and make it available via the least desireable

Sorta evens out , dont ya think?

Basically charm a pet ... BUT ,,, we have an upgrade for this in the Heroic ,,, hence it becomes desireable by the near end game raiders.  Dont forget some dungeons have charmable pets , usually spiders.

[NolaDragon]

I can see it now ... somebody asks what AA to get ... Then some one says "

Oh You gota get charm pet , You cant heal your group good enough unless you charm a pet ...

[gatrm]

lol well, gu 61 update is on test and of course there is no mention of instinct.....and the charm seems that it will be only slightly less useless- still something to waste points on to get wild regeneration and TS imo. I mean, if mezing or charming is needed, we'd be better off chain healing....If we had decent group buffs, then maybe the control abilities might be more useful, and in conjunction with the roots wardens could be a ghetto crowd control class, but I'd rather just heal and dps tbh.

Having the ability to charm and linking what we charm to a group buff is an interesting idea, but I think it may be too similar to ideas I have heard about how beastlords might work.

[NolaDragon]

Howdy Gatrm

OiC!  ... yes mentioning the BL word or reference to it , is sorta like mentioning a Bm during dinner

I never played WoW ... just the awesome est game of Star Craft I.     And Baldurs Gate.

But imo it seems sony pre set up wardens to be the beastlord XXX  or their version of the likeness (asumeing I even know what blizzard had in mind.  Somethin akin to the druid from Diablo?  (i only read it , didnt play that expansion)

So the Beast Lord title aside  .... what would be wrong with Wardens getting a" Charm animal/Mez animal" enhance beyond that of the druid tree?      And imo again ... sumthin relateing to instinct , ... sounds bout right  ^^shrug^^

[gatrm]

Heh, I tried the WoW free trial, but that's it.  I don't know about that class existing or not in WoW....

But Beastlord has been announced by EQ2 developers as the 25th class and it's coming out with expansion.  I don't know how much the devs will enhance the wardens ability to enhance their group with charmed pets cause it seems (to me anyway) that it will be stepping on the toes of the new class that's sure to be overpowered.

There's certainly nothing wrong with trying to get charm/calm enhanced, and now is the time to do it.  Newly on test, and the reason I responded  yesterday, there is a change to charm/calm making it useable on more than just animals.  Charm will be usable on anything that can be charmed for instance, but with a shorter duration. 

That's not going to make me use it.  Now if a group buff were attached to it, It might provide incentive to use it.  Wardens need some group dps utility buff to be wanted. 

Since I do raid, however I would prefer that not being linked to charm because charm cannot be used on epics, and it's pretty rare to find heroics in raid zones, so while your idea might be useful for soloing/grouping, it would be useless in raiding.  Turn the charm into a possess like coercers have, and attach a group buff to that, maybe it would then be useful for all, depending on how effective this buff is that you are suggesting.

*Edit:  After posting, I thought further about your idea.  The biggest problem with tying a group utility buff to a pet, whether it's charmed, possess spell like coercers have, or a weak perma pet like the shaman dog, is that these pets tend to die very easily to Aoes in a raid setting, and even in some group instances.  If your idea were to be carried out, then in order to make it effective, the pet would have to be aoe immune, including aoe autoattack.

[Evilnikki]

Mayladen@Nagafen wrote:

And not to derail, but this is sad, where are my fellow Wardens at? Its sad when Rosvita who is now a Fury (yes im aware you made a warden though ) Is the only one who is trying to spear head some changes for us, Are we the only two Wardens left? I know on Nagafen other then for pvp purposes it seems like wardens are extinct other then my own. I see a ton of Furies, and dont get me wrong, our fury kin needed love and a lot of it and im happy they got it, but im really hoping some dev listens to our pleas and helps us out.

We didnt even ask for much imo, just a few simple things and we would be good to go. I know it proably wont happen with Instinct, cant tell you how many times ive feed backed it And I know many have in the past, if a dev could at least say theyed look into it or flat out tell us no id rather that then being ingored. Come on Wardens pitch in, post your ideas like the op asked, Since the devs are looking at AA's theres a faint hope we can maybe get some needed changes if we have more voices weigh in!

ALOT of the warden community has either betrayed, rerolled, or all together quit. Honestly personally speaking the way I've felt is why play a warden in the raiding community if all I'm going to do is be sat 90% of the time, due to the fact that I offer no utility to the group or raid in general.

Now to speak of the little bit of change that has been posted. First off, the change to charm/mez animal seems cool, but personally I'm still probably not going to use this due to the conc slot requirement. I have to drop how many buffs just to be able to charm "something" for 30mins. Meh, its not going to help us as a class on a raid either. Now shatter infections change. I will agree something needs to be done with this aa, but having not tested it I don't think making it a faster duration temp buff isn't necessarily the way to go either. At least with the 2min duration you could throw it up n almost guarantee that it would catch something or other. Now u have to use it as another grp cure, with yet another cast time? I don't know doesnt seem like much to me.

Lastly, I will repeat as I have in the past a few times that the warden class in general needs help. We are slowly becoming extinct in the raid scene. We need utility BAD. Raidwide AND groupwide utility. Please dev's take our class into consideration and give us some love. Group wide instinct would be a start (no it would NOT be OP, if you compare it to the group utility an inq gets, ie Fanaticism, Tenacity, and Act of War combined would do way more then instinct would) and that is just a start. Cyclone NEEDS to be made castable on raid friend not just group friend with a 5 min recast. Sandstorm needs something added too it, because as it stands is a group buff that is only really useful to your tank. And what good does that do a scout group, since that is another viable spot a warden could take (if we were given some utility). Our tree and fairy ally need more hps, maybe ae blocker for the tree.. not the fairy as it heals on death. But both definately need ALOT more hps. How bout change the aa of spirit of the bat and give it some dps mod, or make it group wide for wardens as it now IS a scout buff.

All in all, wardens need utility. Please help this dying class. Sorry I'm not trying to be "emo" but I'm being realistic. When you see all the top end wardens disappear (reroll, betray, quit) something is wrong. Something needs to be fixed, and we have been asking and asking for help. Please give us something.

[Rosvita]

Hey Guys

So awesome to see you all coming out of the woodworks I just got back from my holidays and catching up, I did get a chance to read about the aa changes made.  Honestly the changes made at the moment will make no difference to the desirability of wardens for end game raiding, I really want these changes to happen (cause I want rosvita to be a warden again and betray Roseus to fury - yes I do know how crazy that sounds), hopefully they will give use something nice for the new xpac.

[Odys]

Evilnikki@Guk wrote:

Mayladen@Nagafen wrote:

And not to derail, but this is sad, where are my fellow Wardens at? Its sad when Rosvita who is now a Fury (yes im aware you made a warden though ) Is the only one who is trying to spear head some changes for us, Are we the only two Wardens left? I know on Nagafen other then for pvp purposes it seems like wardens are extinct other then my own. I see a ton of Furies, and dont get me wrong, our fury kin needed love and a lot of it and im happy they got it, but im really hoping some dev listens to our pleas and helps us out.

We didnt even ask for much imo, just a few simple things and we would be good to go. I know it proably wont happen with Instinct, cant tell you how many times ive feed backed it And I know many have in the past, if a dev could at least say theyed look into it or flat out tell us no id rather that then being ingored. Come on Wardens pitch in, post your ideas like the op asked, Since the devs are looking at AA's theres a faint hope we can maybe get some needed changes if we have more voices weigh in!

ALOT of the warden community has either betrayed, rerolled, or all together quit. Honestly personally speaking the way I've felt is why play a warden in the raiding community if all I'm going to do is be sat 90% of the time, due to the fact that I offer no utility to the group or raid in general.

Now to speak of the little bit of change that has been posted. First off, the change to charm/mez animal seems cool, but personally I'm still probably not going to use this due to the conc slot requirement. I have to drop how many buffs just to be able to charm "something" for 30mins. Meh, its not going to help us as a class on a raid either. Now shatter infections change. I will agree something needs to be done with this aa, but having not tested it I don't think making it a faster duration temp buff isn't necessarily the way to go either. At least with the 2min duration you could throw it up n almost guarantee that it would catch something or other. Now u have to use it as another grp cure, with yet another cast time? I don't know doesnt seem like much to me.

Lastly, I will repeat as I have in the past a few times that the warden class in general needs help. We are slowly becoming extinct in the raid scene. We need utility BAD. Raidwide AND groupwide utility. Please dev's take our class into consideration and give us some love. Group wide instinct would be a start (no it would NOT be OP, if you compare it to the group utility an inq gets, ie Fanaticism, Tenacity, and Act of War combined would do way more then instinct would) and that is just a start. Cyclone NEEDS to be made castable on raid friend not just group friend with a 5 min recast. Sandstorm needs something added too it, because as it stands is a group buff that is only really useful to your tank. And what good does that do a scout group, since that is another viable spot a warden could take (if we were given some utility). Our tree and fairy ally need more hps, maybe ae blocker for the tree.. not the fairy as it heals on death. But both definately need ALOT more hps. How bout change the aa of spirit of the bat and give it some dps mod, or make it group wide for wardens as it now IS a scout buff.

All in all, wardens need utility. Please help this dying class. Sorry I'm not trying to be "emo" but I'm being realistic. When you see all the top end wardens disappear (reroll, betray, quit) something is wrong. Something needs to be fixed, and we have been asking and asking for help. Please give us something.

I totally support all your claims, i will simply add two things :

- We need better spike damage prevention : the two antideath + genesis + mythical thorns simly don't do it, using all we have we don't come even close to a mystic using only two single target wards (normal one + torpor).

- Our rezz is pathetic since we cannot ncrease the range nor the casting time.

[LivelyHound]

Some ideas I posted in the in-testing thread that some here probably won't see otherwise

Suggestions:

Options I would never take:Enhance:snareSnare has never been on my hotbar ever, so why on earth would I enhance it. We are not a kiting class so this is only useful to give you slightly more time to re-root before being hit. May aswell go with the suggested in-combat move speed.

Enhance: cure & cure III & verdant whisperThe heal from this is pitiful and it never gets cast as you are better off using tunare's grace to cure for example. The cure lines need a revamp because mainly you never actually cast cure. Revamping the cure line is a difficult one because what do you enhance instead? Well if you look at the fury tree a lot of it is enhance:dmg spells, which mainly take the place of our cure line. So as a defensive druid how about we get a bunch of enhance:heal spells on that tree. This would double up on other aa's but hear me out. All of our main heals have plus to crit and base from aa's and sylvan bloom already has skin like wood. So extend that idea.

There are Healstorm (has 2% dmg reduction aa), Winds of Healing, Photosynthesis (has 2% dmg reduction aa), Natures Embrace and 2 Emergency Heal Nukes left. There are 4 cure line skills that could be replaced so I suggest revamp the whole line: Enhance:Nature's Embrace per point, 2% increase in each dot tick. Giving 10% increase per dot tick at max rank. I.e. 100, 105, 110, 115, 121 (compound increase), 127 and so on. It is a 10 tick dot. This would then make it worth letting the heal expire unless you need the up front nuke to quickly give hp back in which case you could overwrite it. Balance the increase so that the end 2 ticks out of 10 are bigger than the initial heal hit and it provides some interesting game play for a druid. Do the same for Enhance: Winds of Healing.

Make Enhance: Photosynthesis & Enhance:Healstorm per point, +2%max hp as unconcious health, maxing at 10% of your current hp in bonus unconcious hp and make them stackable, at 30K hp that is a bonus 6K unconcious to one person and 3K to the group. This is essentially a one shot prevention aid as it is a different flavour of ward and is in keeping with the 2% dmg reduction you can already attach. This I would hope would then provide a little extra in the way of raid viability without stepping on the toes of shamans by giving us wards. In fact it would probably give more hp than the wards + grp buffs of other healers as on a 6 man group at 30K hp each those changes provide 21K hp whilst the spells are running, 23K if you run two photsynths on different people, 26K if you run 3 (which is possible with max reuse in theory). The tradeoff of course being that they are unconcious and you have to wait for your hot ticks to kick in, hence the above change for natures embrace and winds.

Play with the numbers a bit and voila the worthless cure line becomes much more useful.

Enhance: healing groveThe grove is so minimally useful due to dying and a small heal tick that it is hardly worth casting unless you have nothing better, thus speeding up its reuse is essentially pointless. Either revamp the tree to make it relevant to current gameplay or I would change to Enhance:Sandstorm with each point either increasing the block amount given or the increase the hate change.

Enhance: tranquilityEr... duration 1min, reuse 50 secs on my warden without having finished assigning trees for reuse etc... (I was on test at the time) The only reason to speed it up is to use it as a heal nuke more often for that primary heal on landing the spell. However it is supposed to be fire and forget if you think about its duration. With the recast times on our primary heals you can be constantly casting those and they are better value for money than using tranquility as a heal nuke. Thus this aa is imho worthless. Change this to just increase the crit bonus and potency like every other enhance heal spell aa, dull but useful or make it add a ward for each cure, like skin like wood does, or leave as is but add concurrently increased tick speed, so that you end up with possible cure/heal ticks every 7 or so seconds instead of every 15.

Those that I had to take to open up the tree

Enhance:cure III prefer this one to the others because at least it hurts the mob, albeit hardly noticable. Up the damage amount to make it really worth casting this cure when trauma appears as opposed to casting tunares grace or other better cure. Or revamp it along with the whole cure line aas, see above.

Enhance:cure curseCan be occasionally useful for pick up raiding for me and I am sure raiding players probably like this one so leave it.

Enhance:resurrectionsGotta take something and this makes tunares watch marginally more useful. Just beef it up or do the right thing and beef up the base resurrection spells. Make the base res's % based non modifiable and make this aa increase the only way to modify the %. Topping out with a 50% auto res. Base 25%, then 5% per res points, or whatever values you feel appropriate. At present the auto res's are about a 10% heal for me... that's including the 30% endline boost, and the 15% enhance aa boost. Of course it can crit so that boosts it somewhat topping out for me at 20-25% max hp. They are just too weak.

I only got so far as looking a the changes to the webbing etc on the wardne tree.

As to the druid tree the two changes on test to the AGI line are meh.

[Odys]

It seems that the devs actively ignore the feedback and the general concensus (there was a post about which healer should be played by someone wishing to raid, and the answer were : Inqui, warder, furie. Templars and warden were not even cited once in the replies.

The changes to the warden tree were minimal, and the new warden will simply be the old warden with a more usefull cure end line.

- Ca do not scale -> ignored.

- Spike damage issues (anti death triggering and people dying anyway) -> ignored.

- 20 useless AAs in the horrible cure tree -> ignored.

- 10 meters range ressurection (this translate into 3 steps)  -> ignored.

- Groups dps is 50-100% higher with an inquisitor (who can cure while running & stiffled) -> ignored.

- Furies bringing more safety (raid porcupine, group hibernate) -> ignored.