Anyone actually run well with full shadows on?

crunk33 · 10-26-2008, 03:24 AM

I see people posting screenshots with shadows on all the time and I'm wondering if these people are actually playing with these on or just using it to take screenshots.

The reason I ask is because I run with a Core 2 Duo 3.2GHz E8500, 4GB RAM (Vista x64), and a Radeon HD 4870, and this game, with shadows on, dips the FPS quite a bit when I'm around many NPCs (i.e. docks of Garowyn) and I have shadows on. Torch shadows just aren't worth it in terms of performance, but it look great, I'll give it that. I take character shadows off because half the time I never see them due to being in an overcast area or something, and environmental shadows just don't make enough visual difference to me to take a performance hit.

So are these people just running on [Removed for Content] machines overclocked out the wazoo or am I missing something? My rig is fairly high end and I dip into the low 30 FPS around lots of NPCs (save the human eye can't notice above 30 FPS argument cuz it's false and it annoys me when I notice my FPS go from 50-60 to 30, it's noticeable) and into the low 20s if I have torch shadows on around busy areas.

Hell, I even cut flora off because, again, it makes such a small visual impact (I've toggled it on in areas where I thought it would make a big visual difference and I was surprised at how little it did), and saves me about 5 FPS.

Felshades · 10-26-2008, 04:11 AM

they do that for the screenshots.

alot of people i know crank the settings to max when they're going to take a screenshot. then turn them back down afterwards.

ke'la · 10-26-2008, 04:39 AM

I accually have a "Screenshot" saved setting that maxs the visual quality beyond even what "Max Quality" gives you. I also have a "Solo Running" mode for out in the wild that has some higher settings but is lag free outside cities, then I have a Group/City mode that I run when ever I am in a knowen laggy area like Terren's, QH, and anywhere a live event is running, then I have a Raid mode with everything turned as far down as I can get it.

Wilde_Night · 10-26-2008, 05:09 AM

I play that way. I can raid with my settings nearly max as well (as long as I turn down particle effects about halfway), with framerates that stay between 20-30 and in normal zones the framerates are between 50-70. But I am also playing on a decently built computer.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600(overclocked to 3.38 GHz), GeForce 8800 GTX, eVGA 680i motherboard, 2 GB XMS2 RAM, 1 Terrabyte Hard Drive space, running on Windows XP sp2. I rarely have any issues, even when running around zones that are notorious for killing FPS, like Qeynos Harbor, East Freeport or Gorowyn. In fact, since they've added the tweak to duel-core with the game, it runs just a little better with shadows on than it did before.

Just as important as your system specs are, which settings you have on or off are also frame rate killers. Particle Effects is the biggest setting that can make or break you. Looking at your video card, there are some known issues with it when it comes to high resolution so you may get a performance increase by turning your resolution down a notch but turning the other eye-candy up.

M0rticia · 10-26-2008, 01:01 PM

Both my boyfriend and I run with shadows on all the time and have no issues. Occasionally you get some lag in cities but that's always happened in cities (shadows or not). The only time I turn shadows off is for raiding. SMILEY

NorrinRadd · 10-26-2008, 01:14 PM

Running with everything Maxxed including Shadows & Particles. Brand new PC, Intel Quad proc. Q9300(2.5GHz),1GB NVidia GeForce 9800GT(2DVI,HDMI,adpt),640GB RAID 0 SATA HDDS-perf, & 4GB DDR2-800MHZ dual channel SDRAM. Vista Home Premium(64-bit). I've turned everything up to as high as it can go & have all effects on even when raiding with no issues.

crunk33 · 10-26-2008, 02:32 PM

I have a hard time believing some of what you people claim.

First and foremost you don't specify what you claim as shadows. Character/environmental shadows I can possibly believe, but all shadows including torch shadows I absolutely can't believe.

20-30 FPS in a crowded area is not acceptable to me. I can get 50-70 in a barren zone as well, but if I'm getting 20-30 in a town, that's not what I call running well.

Then someone claiming they're running maxed WHILE raiding I can believe even less. I've tried the "Extreme Quality" (aka maxed) setting, and it just brings your computer to a stuttering 15-20 FPS on my system in town areas.

Without further ado, my own screenshots on Garowyn docks in the same spot each time. The second and third SS are taken without particle effects on. My particle sliders are normally at about half (whatever balanced has it set on) and the effects are "very high," with not even an noticeable performance increase when changing them to "average."

My normal settings 37 FPS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000032.jpg

Environmental/Character/Torch shadows on - Average shadow quantity 26 FPS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000030.jpg

Same as above, but running at 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200 28 FPS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Q2_000031-1.jpg

Character/Environmental shadows on only (back at 1920x1200) and particle on 32 FPS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000034.jpg

As you'll notice, the first and last SS have hardly any visual difference. This is because it was nighttime. At night or in an roofed area, the only shadows that will appear are torch shadows. But you'll notice there's a performance drop even though you can't tell the difference at night. EDIT: The first SS being one without shadows on at all and the last being with only character/environ shadows.

I challenge anyone that wants to claim they are running max and wants to put me in my place, to go the same spot (Garowyn docks) and take screens of yourself in the same exact place, post your important settings, and post what resolution you are on and your PC specs if necessary. EDIT: You may want to note if you have a torch equipped on your character or not. As it is now, I'm not inclined to believe anyone, especially someone with lesser PC specs than me, can run this game at near max and run it well in busy areas and especially while raiding.

Lethe5683 · 10-26-2008, 03:12 PM

I play with the game set to extream quality. So all shadows, etc are enabled. I only have problems in some areas where the fps goes below 30 but that's rare.

ke'la · 10-26-2008, 06:26 PM

crunk33 wrote:

I have a hard time believing some of what you people claim.
First and foremost you don't specify what you claim as shadows. Character/environmental shadows I can possibly believe, but all shadows including torch shadows I absolutely can't believe.
20-30 FPS in a crowded area is not acceptable to me. I can get 50-70 in a barren zone as well, but if I'm getting 20-30 in a town, that's not what I call running well.
Then someone claiming they're running maxed WHILE raiding I can believe even less. I've tried the "Extreme Quality" (aka maxed) setting, and it just brings your computer to a stuttering 15-20 FPS on my system in town areas.
Without further ado, my own screenshots on Garowyn docks in the same spot each time. The second and third SS are taken without particle effects on. My particle sliders are normally at about half (whatever balanced has it set on) and the effects are "very high," with not even an noticeable performance increase when changing them to "average."
My normal settings 37 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000032.jpg
Environmental/Character/Torch shadows on - Average shadow quantity 26 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000030.jpg
Same as above, but running at 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200 28 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Q2_000031-1.jpg
Character/Environmental shadows on only (back at 1920x1200) and particle on 32 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000034.jpg
As you'll notice, the first and last SS have hardly any visual difference. This is because it was nighttime. At night or in an roofed area, the only shadows that will appear are torch shadows. But you'll notice there's a performance drop even though you can't tell the difference at night. EDIT: The first SS being one without shadows on at all and the last being with only character/environ shadows.
I challenge anyone that wants to claim they are running max and wants to put me in my place, to go the same spot (Garowyn docks) and take screens of yourself in the same exact place, post your important settings, and post what resolution you are on and your PC specs if necessary. EDIT: You may want to note if you have a torch equipped on your character or not. As it is now, I'm not inclined to believe anyone, especially someone with lesser PC specs than me, can run this game at near max and run it well in busy areas and especially while raiding.

I find it hard to believe you don't have 1k differant pieces of spyware/bloatware running in the background killing your performance.

Performance from one machine to the next with the exsact same hardware can run VERY differantly depending on how long it's been sence the last time the system has had a clean install.

crunk33 · 10-26-2008, 07:05 PM

kela wrote:

I find it hard to believe you don't have 1k differant pieces of spyware/bloatware running in the background killing your performance.
Performance from one machine to the next with the exsact same hardware can run VERY differantly depending on how long it's been sence the last time the system has had a clean install.

Hm...so other MMOs and games run fine? So this computer isn't even but a month or two old and it's infested? So my constant use of AVG anti-virus, ad-aware, disk-cleanup, and defragging are all for naught? My 3DMark06 score placed exactly where it was supposed to: Above average. And yet somehow my so called infested PC is so infested that one person with a lesser system than me can raid with max settings getting 70 FPS all the time and I get 9 FPS on "Extreme Quality" in a busy area. Really? Really? Really?

One thing I've come to realize is that people always lie about their FPS, and most of the time they overrate their performance. Maybe even I am lying, but then again, I think I've set myself up to be more credible than anyone so far.

Again, I find it hard to believe people with similar or worse specs (or what do ya know, post no specs at all!) are getting such a phenomenal increase in performance than me. I don't believe it and if you really are getting 70 FPS with full shadows on, I'd love to see your screenshot and your specs.

So yeah, I'm talking big right now, and that's because I absolutely believe these people aren't getting the FPS they claim. If you wish to force me to put my foot in mouth, produce a screenshot like I requested (and better yet, include the "extreme performance" on your graphics menu in the same screenshot). Sure, you have no reason to do me a favor, but just think of it as a chance to point and laugh at someone and make a fool of them.

And if you happen to show me a similar system that is running at max graphics and doing it well, then perhaps I will try to find the source of the problem. But right now, odds are stacked against it being me. In fact, my brother's PC is the exact same build as mine and his is only a few weeks old. I shall be testing it on his as well. So if that prooves to run the same, I'd start to count out your spyware theory.

EDIT: Indeed, his also ran at a constant 10-20 FPS on extreme quality in Garowyn. Perhaps there are other explainations.

Perhaps it's my build. But it runs games and benchmarks fine.

Perhaps EQ2 runs horribly with ATI card. Maybe, haven't seen anyone say anything about this.

Maybe I don't know of important graphical settings to turn down, despite my constant tinkering with it.

Maybe it's just EQ2 and these people are candy coating their FPS.

Lethe5683 · 10-26-2008, 07:31 PM

Well yes in many areas of towns and such my fps goes to 20 something but that doesn't bother me as much as how dead the world looks without shadows.

Verrie77 · 10-26-2008, 07:42 PM

I dont have my settings very high. And Im happy if I have a fps at 20..im usually between 8-17 fps....my game runs smooth if im above 15.My PC is around 4 years old..ish.I would love to upgrade my PC, but money IRL doesnt come as easy as in EQ2 im afraid SMILEY

crunk33 · 10-26-2008, 07:56 PM

Lethe5683 wrote:

Well yes in many areas of towns and such my fps goes to 20 something but that doesn't bother me as much as how dead the world looks without shadows.

That sounds more like it as I experience a similar effect. Perhaps I'm making my FPS sound worse than they are. With full shadows on, I don't run at 20-30 FPS all the time, but only in NPC/PC crowded areas, which I have tried to stress. I too can get 40-60 FPS out in the field with shadows on.

It seems we are of a different frame of mind. You on one hand prefer the world to look better and aren't bothered by the drop in FPS. I, on the other hand, hate noticing my FPS dropping and like to have smooth transition between town and field without having to change settings. I personally never want to drop below 30 and in order to achieve that, I have to turn shadows off. This is what I mean by running well.

Although, I'm still not sure I believe your Extreme Quality claim (granted, you haven't posted your specs, so you could be running on a $3000 home built computer for all I know). I have noticed the visual difference between Extreme and Very High/High quality is minimal, and a lot of the performance difference gets wasted on small sliders that you really don't notice much. On Extreme Quality, it is possible for me to get 40 FPS, but that's if I'm looking at a very graphically uninteresting place. If I'm looking out over a hill or something at the mass field before me or I'm running through a town, I will constantly drop into the 10-20 FPS range at Extreme Quality.

thephantomposter · 10-26-2008, 08:45 PM

Due to different reasons, I had to reformat a few times.

One huge difference for me, anti virus software. I can run in EQ2s extreme settings(without adjusting any settings) if my anti-virus software is not installed. Not turned off but not installed. When it was installed and disabled, I could barely run one step above balanced.

I run an amd athlon 64x2 4200, 2GBs of RAM, I have EQ2 on a seperate drive, my video card is the ATI 4850. I have nothing else that runs in the back ground. No roxio burning software, anti spyware, etc. It is just my gaming pc. I do not download anything or install anything even just to try.

Except in the main city, like Gorowyn(5-10 ugly), I get 20 to 30 FPS and very rarely do I get lag, I do not raid and if I group I group with 1 to 3 people with no drop in FPS. EQ2s dual core support helped make it more constant for me too.

If you have a new brand name computer, go through the add/remove programs and remove everything you do not need. It is best if you have a fresh install of windows and add only what you need.

I am not trying to prove anything, this is just what gets me what I want from EQ2, I love the extreme settings, once I tried it out, wow!!! I couldn't go back.

NorrinRadd · 10-26-2008, 10:37 PM

Crunk33, why would you ask if anyone can run well with full shadows on( including Torch Shadows) & when they reply they can and give you their PC specs you don't believe them? I run fully maxxed even when Raiding & its the same as when I'm in any zone, NO issues at all. I don't have any reason to post in this thread and give you false information just thought I'd reply to your original question honestly.

crunk33 · 10-27-2008, 12:18 AM

NorrinRadd wrote:

Crunk33, why would you ask if anyone can run well with full shadows on( including Torch Shadows) & when they reply they can and give you their PC specs you don't believe them? I run fully maxxed even when Raiding & its the same as when I'm in any zone, NO issues at all. I don't have any reason to post in this thread and give you false information just thought I'd reply to your original question honestly.

Because half of them are like you and don't post specs or screenshot, thus making your posts useless information. The other half think 20-30 FPS is running a game well, but the problem with that is they sugar coat it and don't tell you the real story. So to them running "well" is running at a sluggish 20 FPS. "I run the game at max and get 15 FPS in raids and it's uber!" Except they leave out the 15 FPS part.

And why do I not believe them? It's not that I don't believe there are people out there who can run at max. It's the fact that someone with worse or equivalent specs is claiming to run the game significantly better than I do when there is no explaination for it.

What's your explaination? That I have spyware? No. That my computer sucks? No. Refer to other games running well (i.e. UT3 at max) and benchmarking. That I'm editing high-res pictures in photoshop and scanning my computers for viruses while I simultaneously edit a video and play EQ2? No. That I should delete everything off my computer and use it like a console gaming machine? Hell no.

So how is it that some of these people magically run the game extremely well and yet I get 10 FPS on extreme settings in certain areas? Now if it were my 10 FPS to your 25 FPS, maybe I could see something there, but when it's my 10 FPS to your 70 FPS, something doesn't add up, and so far I've already had one person correct themselves on the FPS they get in busy areas.

But then again, you didn't post a screenshot of your FPS, didn't list your specs, and didn't even bother to mention what FPS you're getting, so why did you even bother trying to give me information when you didn't include anything useful in it to begin with?

If someone could kindly explain how TWO exact same PCs are running this game like crap in busy areas on max settings while other similar systems are supposedly cutting through this game on max like butter, I'd really love to hear it. In-depth specs if interested:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/P...Number=10533488

NorrinRadd · 10-27-2008, 12:36 AM

You asked if anyone could run the game well with full shadows on originally. I posted my PC specs in the 1st post I wrote in this topic(try going back & actually reading it). I'm not here to argue with you at all, just thought I'd answer your question & for the record we don't have the same or equivalent specs. You also didn't ask for Screenshots or proof regarding FPS in your original post & as I was at work allday & just now saw the reply post you wrote in regards to my original post there are no screenshots to show you for "proof". To be quite honest I could login & take some to show you but that would be pointless. Ignore my original post & I'll respectfully bow out of your topic.

crunk33 · 10-27-2008, 01:03 AM

NorrinRadd wrote:

You asked if anyone could run the game well with full shadows on originally. I posted my PC specs in the 1st post I wrote in this topic(try going back & actually reading it). I'm not here to argue with you at all, just thought I'd answer your question & for the record we don't have the same or equivalent specs.

My mistake on not realize you had posted before.

Not similar specs? Lets look at benchmarks, shall we?

Q9300 vs E8500

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cp...ad-q9300_9.html

Yours wins out in processor power, but loses out in gaming, which is exactly why I went with a C2D because dual core offers more bang for you buck for gaming.

9800 GT vs 4870

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...-Score,794.html

Mine beats yours again in that particular benchmark. If you look at other ones on the site, they can vary depending on the game benchmark, but the two are typically about the same.

You didn't mention any OCing, so I can only assume you're running at stock speeds and the other specs listed aren't really gonna matter much or are the same as mine to begin with. So how are we so disimilar again? The only argument I see you make from this is that EQ2 runs better on Quad than on Dual core processors. EDIT: Or that EQ2 is better optimized for GeForce cards...but that's an astounding difference if I've ever seen one.

thephantomposter · 10-27-2008, 01:25 AM

lol, there is a spec difference and then there is a show me the difference. Just because a computer out specs another computer in no way guarantees it will out perform it. Some top of the line products do not gel with other top of the line products. Getting the best mother board with the best processor with the best video card with the best sound card might do more harm than good.

Maybe it is hard to compare apples to apples because the main part of a product ie: the graphics chip may not work well with who built the board it goes on. Then there is the software issue, up to date drivers? Maybe the up to date driver has an issue and the previous version is better at the moment. Are they certified drivers? What programs are running in the background? Something as simple as a logitech top of the line gaming mouse(My friend had this) cuts into the processing power that cut his frame rate down to nothing. Changing that in his case changed everything.

I run smooth with no hesitation unless I am in city. Anyways, I gave some things to look at for ya to try and help you out, good luck and I hope you find what your looking for.

Nobody needs to prove anything to you, if what is working for them is working then more power to them. They are enjoying themselves.

Rorasis · 10-27-2008, 11:07 AM

2 8800GTX and a quadcore at 3.47ghz. q6600 I think. Shadows freaking kill my performance. They make me drop to unplayable levels, even after this halfassed multicore support.

Armawk · 10-27-2008, 04:44 PM

Never ever played an MMO that didnt have framerate dips below 30 in busy areas, settings and hardware regardless. There are way way too many factors, and graphics is only one of them.

That said, I have hardware almost identical to the OP (same processor, 4Gddr2-800 ram, 4850 instead of 4870) but run XP Pro not vista, and with settings based on very high quality (with some personal tweaks of things I like different) I am running mostly between 60-100 FPS, and in city areas between 30-50 with very occasional dips.

One factor I find very very significant in speed is that I now run eq2 on a hard drive I dont use for anything but application/game storage, not on my system or main data drives. I found this made things consistent and removed most speed dips.

thephantomposter · 10-27-2008, 05:29 PM

I wonder if that makes a difference because one of the things that is different when I was having performance issues was buying a seperate drive for just gaming and data.

Correct me if I am wrong but if window's paging/caching system is on the same drive as the game, could that hinder performance?

ke'la · 10-27-2008, 06:02 PM

thephantomposter wrote:

I wonder if that makes a difference because one of the things that is different when I was having performance issues was buying a seperate drive for just gaming and data.
Correct me if I am wrong but if window's paging/caching system is on the same drive as the game, could that hinder performance?

That would make sence if it is trying to Read and Write to the drive at the same time.

StormCinder · 10-27-2008, 10:15 PM

crunk33 wrote:

I have a hard time believing some of what you people claim.
First and foremost you don't specify what you claim as shadows. Character/environmental shadows I can possibly believe, but all shadows including torch shadows I absolutely can't believe.
20-30 FPS in a crowded area is not acceptable to me. I can get 50-70 in a barren zone as well, but if I'm getting 20-30 in a town, that's not what I call running well.
Then someone claiming they're running maxed WHILE raiding I can believe even less. I've tried the "Extreme Quality" (aka maxed) setting, and it just brings your computer to a stuttering 15-20 FPS on my system in town areas.
Without further ado, my own screenshots on Garowyn docks in the same spot each time. The second and third SS are taken without particle effects on. My particle sliders are normally at about half (whatever balanced has it set on) and the effects are "very high," with not even an noticeable performance increase when changing them to "average."
My normal settings 37 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000032.jpg
Environmental/Character/Torch shadows on - Average shadow quantity 26 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000030.jpg
Same as above, but running at 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200 28 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Q2_000031-1.jpg
Character/Environmental shadows on only (back at 1920x1200) and particle on 32 FPS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000034.jpg
As you'll notice, the first and last SS have hardly any visual difference. This is because it was nighttime. At night or in an roofed area, the only shadows that will appear are torch shadows. But you'll notice there's a performance drop even though you can't tell the difference at night. EDIT: The first SS being one without shadows on at all and the last being with only character/environ shadows.
I challenge anyone that wants to claim they are running max and wants to put me in my place, to go the same spot (Garowyn docks) and take screens of yourself in the same exact place, post your important settings, and post what resolution you are on and your PC specs if necessary. EDIT: You may want to note if you have a torch equipped on your character or not. As it is now, I'm not inclined to believe anyone, especially someone with lesser PC specs than me, can run this game at near max and run it well in busy areas and especially while raiding.

Can you give a zone/LOC for this location, please?

SC

EDIT. For lack of a /LOC I went running around Gorowyn and took a bunch of screenies. Will post when I have somewhere to host them. Regardess, I run at 1680x1050. Added all lighting effects maxed minus shadows and dropped to about 50fps. Added all shadows...basically maxed everything..shadows, #light sources, #player torches, lighting, etc (basically went down the list and switched all to maximum and moved all sliders to right) and came down to 43-45. Tried a couple of different places...found a bar-like area on second floor of city that had lots of purple hanging paper lamps and multiple NPCs, 19 players in zone....dropped to 37 at one point, but stayed in mid-upper 40s consistantly. I noticed that if I dropped specular lighting (leaving shadows on) I got back about 10fps. I've got a torch equipped (you owe me 3 silver for the torch I had to buy).

Not sure how that rates against yours, but I do like my new settings. Will be keeping the shadows. TY.

Zutan · 10-30-2008, 09:52 AM

I'm currently set to "High Quality" and added all shadow options, including shadows from offscreen sources. The game works great and doesnt lag for me. I could not do this at all until the multi-core support came along.

NoobToEQ · 11-02-2008, 05:43 AM

If anyone wants to get better performance but can live with more jaggies I recommend lower the Lighting Resolution found under the performance settings in display.

By doing that I am now playing at a steady 60fps with shadows fully on and all the other fluff like bloom and flora.

I am running:

AMD 6000+ X2(dual core)

2GB DDR2 8500 RAM(gonna upgrade to 4 in 2 months)

7900GTX 512VRAM (4870x2 in 2 months gonna be fun to see how it handles eq2 =P)

Roybob · 11-02-2008, 08:33 AM

My take on all this, for what it's worth...

First off, I myself do not run with environmental or other fancy shadows except for character shadows. I've experimented with environmental shadows a few times and didn't notice enough consistant visual improvement to justify the potential performance drop. So shadows themselves are not my main thrust.

I run EQ at Very High Quaility 1280x1024, with Character LOD Textures reduced to High (back when I got out_of_memory crashes that setting helped reduce them) but light-sources bumped up to circa 14. My computer consists of an Intel e6600 2.4ghz CPU (not overclocked), 4gb DDR2800 ram (reduced to 667 for stability), nVidia 650i chipset motherboard, nVidia 8800gts 640mb (G80) GPU with 163xx driver (old, but if it ain't broke...), X-fi soundcard with recent driver and Alchemy (to enable EAX), single SATA hard drive with EQ2 on its on partition, Vista64 SP1. My antivirus is the free version of Avast since it's purported to use fewer system resources than most competitors.

EQ2 runs in a full screen window. x16 AF (but not AA) is enable in-game via nVidia's control panel and an EQ2.ini mod. Vista's "side-bar" is disabled. Aero is enabled. UAC is disabled. I often have an instance of Firefox 3x minimized on the taskbar to readily look up quest or other info.

Very High Quality with the mentioned mods works well for me except during the very few raids I participate in, when I drop to balanced. I've thought to experiment and see if a highly modified High Quality setting would get me through raids, but it's just not worth the hassle for the little I do them. Better safe than sorry in any case.

For the type of play I normally do ... solo and group quests, dungeon/instance crawls, etc. ... I've few complaints. Yes, every once in a while I notice lag, but it tends to be in specific locales, short-lived, and non show-stopping.

When the game's performance meter was introduced, I was therefore surprised to see that during numerous adventures my FPS registered in the twenties and sometimes dipped into the teens. This worried me at first, since many consider 30FPS minimal for acceptable performance. But I ran smoothly in the twenties! (Mind you, my FPS is often much higher, but that's beside the point.) It quickly dawned on me that FPS values in-and-of-themselves are a tool to guage system/program performance and a means to troubleshoot performance issues. But they should not, in my opinion, be the sole arbitrator of game enjoyment. What counts is what you see on-screen. Does the game seem smooth at your preferred quality setting? If so, what matter if the FPS meter reads 20, 30, 60, or 120? Conversely, choppiness at high FPS should be considered unacceptable.

I now rarely enable the performance meter, and then only when encountering connection/visual lag. Some weeks back I experienced noticeable lag/choppiness of longer duration than normal. Turning on the meter I was amazed to see FPS constantly in the 40s! Go figure.

I do wonder if some folk are simply more sensative to FPS than others? Back when CRT monitors ruled the earth, I visited friends whose monitor refresh-rates were invariably left at low default settings. Flicker drove me up the wall. I'd dig into their video control panel and adjust refresh to an acceptable level (when possible). I'd then explain what I'd done and why. Looks and comments received afterward frequently indicated that they either didn't notice the difference or it was no big deal to them.

This is getting overly long. I suppose the gist of it all is to not get too hung up on numbers for numbers' sake. Performance meter and FPS are valuable, but what counts in the long run is your impression of what's happening onscreen. If what you see looks to be running smoothly, then for you it is running smoothly regardless of FPS reading. Conversely, if FPS reads high but the game seems choppy or laggy, then for you it is choppy or laggy.

-Roybob

thephantomposter · 11-02-2008, 12:25 PM

Roybob wrote:

do wonder if some folk are simply more sensative to FPS than others? Back when CRT monitors ruled the earth, I visited friends whose monitor refresh-rates were invariably left at low default settings. Flicker drove me up the wall. I'd dig into their graphic settings and adjust refresh to an acceptable level (when possible). I'd then explain what I'd done and why. Looks and comments received afterward frequently indicated that they either didn't notice the difference or it was no big deal to them.

Way to funny, I thought I was the only one. I could go onto someones computer and see that it was below 80hz. Drove me crazy! Most of them wondered what I did. The odd person thanked me because it bothered them too but did not realize you could change that.

I agree with all of what you posted.

Lethe5683 · 11-02-2008, 04:27 PM

thephantomposter wrote:

Roybob wrote:
do wonder if some folk are simply more sensative to FPS than others? Back when CRT monitors ruled the earth, I visited friends whose monitor refresh-rates were invariably left at low default settings. Flicker drove me up the wall. I'd dig into their graphic settings and adjust refresh to an acceptable level (when possible). I'd then explain what I'd done and why. Looks and comments received afterward frequently indicated that they either didn't notice the difference or it was no big deal to them.
Way to funny, I thought I was the only one. I could go onto someones computer and see that it was below 80hz. Drove me crazy! Most of them wondered what I did. The odd person thanked me because it bothered them too but did not realize you could change that.
I agree with all of what you posted.

Yeah that drove me crazy too.

adolf102 · 11-03-2008, 03:15 PM

I have 280 GTX 1GB (overclocked by some 50 Mhz) that in 4GB Ram along with 3.2 GHz Core2 Duo.

I play in window mode at 1920x1200

I do play with shadows as I really like the look of those. What I've noticed that some areas are more some less shadow sensitive when it comes to FPS. Anyway outside zones my FPS vary from ~10 FPS to ~40 FPS. I can get ocassional spikes to 60 and drops to 7-8. Both are rare.

So in the end it is semi playable considering EQ2 was always slow. And again don't expect miracles SMILEY

And as pre-posters said those shadows can be configured in many/many ways so saying "with shadows" is not prcise enough. Day/night also affects FPS here.

10-26-2008, 04:39 AM	#3
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	I accually have a "Screenshot" saved setting that maxs the visual quality beyond even what "Max Quality" gives you. I also have a "Solo Running" mode for out in the wild that has some higher settings but is lag free outside cities, then I have a Group/City mode that I run when ever I am in a knowen laggy area like Terren's, QH, and anywhere a live event is running, then I have a Raid mode with everything turned as far down as I can get it. __________________

10-26-2008, 05:09 AM	#4
Wilde_Night Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin Posts: 1,127	I play that way. I can raid with my settings nearly max as well (as long as I turn down particle effects about halfway), with framerates that stay between 20-30 and in normal zones the framerates are between 50-70. But I am also playing on a decently built computer. Intel Core 2 Duo E6600(overclocked to 3.38 GHz), GeForce 8800 GTX, eVGA 680i motherboard, 2 GB XMS2 RAM, 1 Terrabyte Hard Drive space, running on Windows XP sp2. I rarely have any issues, even when running around zones that are notorious for killing FPS, like Qeynos Harbor, East Freeport or Gorowyn. In fact, since they've added the tweak to duel-core with the game, it runs just a little better with shadows on than it did before. Just as important as your system specs are, which settings you have on or off are also frame rate killers. Particle Effects is the biggest setting that can make or break you. Looking at your video card, there are some known issues with it when it comes to high resolution so you may get a performance increase by turning your resolution down a notch but turning the other eye-candy up. __________________

10-26-2008, 01:01 PM	#5
M0rticia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 873	Both my boyfriend and I run with shadows on all the time and have no issues. Occasionally you get some lag in cities but that's always happened in cities (shadows or not). The only time I turn shadows off is for raiding. __________________

10-26-2008, 01:14 PM	#6
NorrinRadd Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 133	Running with everything Maxxed including Shadows & Particles. Brand new PC, Intel Quad proc. Q9300(2.5GHz),1GB NVidia GeForce 9800GT(2DVI,HDMI,adpt),640GB RAID 0 SATA HDDS-perf, & 4GB DDR2-800MHZ dual channel SDRAM. Vista Home Premium(64-bit). I've turned everything up to as high as it can go & have all effects on even when raiding with no issues. __________________ The delusions in this thread are awe-inspiring.

10-26-2008, 06:26 PM	#9
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	crunk33 wrote: I have a hard time believing some of what you people claim. First and foremost you don't specify what you claim as shadows. Character/environmental shadows I can possibly believe, but all shadows including torch shadows I absolutely can't believe. 20-30 FPS in a crowded area is not acceptable to me. I can get 50-70 in a barren zone as well, but if I'm getting 20-30 in a town, that's not what I call running well. Then someone claiming they're running maxed WHILE raiding I can believe even less. I've tried the "Extreme Quality" (aka maxed) setting, and it just brings your computer to a stuttering 15-20 FPS on my system in town areas. Without further ado, my own screenshots on Garowyn docks in the same spot each time. The second and third SS are taken without particle effects on. My particle sliders are normally at about half (whatever balanced has it set on) and the effects are "very high," with not even an noticeable performance increase when changing them to "average." My normal settings 37 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000032.jpg Environmental/Character/Torch shadows on - Average shadow quantity 26 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000030.jpg Same as above, but running at 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200 28 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Q2_000031-1.jpg Character/Environmental shadows on only (back at 1920x1200) and particle on 32 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000034.jpg As you'll notice, the first and last SS have hardly any visual difference. This is because it was nighttime. At night or in an roofed area, the only shadows that will appear are torch shadows. But you'll notice there's a performance drop even though you can't tell the difference at night. EDIT: The first SS being one without shadows on at all and the last being with only character/environ shadows. I challenge anyone that wants to claim they are running max and wants to put me in my place, to go the same spot (Garowyn docks) and take screens of yourself in the same exact place, post your important settings, and post what resolution you are on and your PC specs if necessary. EDIT: You may want to note if you have a torch equipped on your character or not. As it is now, I'm not inclined to believe anyone, especially someone with lesser PC specs than me, can run this game at near max and run it well in busy areas and especially while raiding. I find it hard to believe you don't have 1k differant pieces of spyware/bloatware running in the background killing your performance. Performance from one machine to the next with the exsact same hardware can run VERY differantly depending on how long it's been sence the last time the system has had a clean install. __________________

10-26-2008, 03:24 AM	#1
crunk33 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28	I see people posting screenshots with shadows on all the time and I'm wondering if these people are actually playing with these on or just using it to take screenshots. The reason I ask is because I run with a Core 2 Duo 3.2GHz E8500, 4GB RAM (Vista x64), and a Radeon HD 4870, and this game, with shadows on, dips the FPS quite a bit when I'm around many NPCs (i.e. docks of Garowyn) and I have shadows on. Torch shadows just aren't worth it in terms of performance, but it look great, I'll give it that. I take character shadows off because half the time I never see them due to being in an overcast area or something, and environmental shadows just don't make enough visual difference to me to take a performance hit. So are these people just running on [Removed for Content] machines overclocked out the wazoo or am I missing something? My rig is fairly high end and I dip into the low 30 FPS around lots of NPCs (save the human eye can't notice above 30 FPS argument cuz it's false and it annoys me when I notice my FPS go from 50-60 to 30, it's noticeable) and into the low 20s if I have torch shadows on around busy areas. Hell, I even cut flora off because, again, it makes such a small visual impact (I've toggled it on in areas where I thought it would make a big visual difference and I was surprised at how little it did), and saves me about 5 FPS.

10-26-2008, 04:11 AM	#2
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	they do that for the screenshots. alot of people i know crank the settings to max when they're going to take a screenshot. then turn them back down afterwards.

10-26-2008, 02:32 PM	#7
crunk33 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28	I have a hard time believing some of what you people claim. First and foremost you don't specify what you claim as shadows. Character/environmental shadows I can possibly believe, but all shadows including torch shadows I absolutely can't believe. 20-30 FPS in a crowded area is not acceptable to me. I can get 50-70 in a barren zone as well, but if I'm getting 20-30 in a town, that's not what I call running well. Then someone claiming they're running maxed WHILE raiding I can believe even less. I've tried the "Extreme Quality" (aka maxed) setting, and it just brings your computer to a stuttering 15-20 FPS on my system in town areas. Without further ado, my own screenshots on Garowyn docks in the same spot each time. The second and third SS are taken without particle effects on. My particle sliders are normally at about half (whatever balanced has it set on) and the effects are "very high," with not even an noticeable performance increase when changing them to "average." My normal settings 37 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000032.jpg Environmental/Character/Torch shadows on - Average shadow quantity 26 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000030.jpg Same as above, but running at 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200 28 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Q2_000031-1.jpg Character/Environmental shadows on only (back at 1920x1200) and particle on 32 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000034.jpg As you'll notice, the first and last SS have hardly any visual difference. This is because it was nighttime. At night or in an roofed area, the only shadows that will appear are torch shadows. But you'll notice there's a performance drop even though you can't tell the difference at night. EDIT: The first SS being one without shadows on at all and the last being with only character/environ shadows. I challenge anyone that wants to claim they are running max and wants to put me in my place, to go the same spot (Garowyn docks) and take screens of yourself in the same exact place, post your important settings, and post what resolution you are on and your PC specs if necessary. EDIT: You may want to note if you have a torch equipped on your character or not. As it is now, I'm not inclined to believe anyone, especially someone with lesser PC specs than me, can run this game at near max and run it well in busy areas and especially while raiding.

10-26-2008, 03:12 PM	#8
Lethe5683 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,351	I play with the game set to extream quality. So all shadows, etc are enabled. I only have problems in some areas where the fps goes below 30 but that's rare.

10-26-2008, 07:05 PM	#10
crunk33 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28	kela wrote: I find it hard to believe you don't have 1k differant pieces of spyware/bloatware running in the background killing your performance. Performance from one machine to the next with the exsact same hardware can run VERY differantly depending on how long it's been sence the last time the system has had a clean install. Hm...so other MMOs and games run fine? So this computer isn't even but a month or two old and it's infested? So my constant use of AVG anti-virus, ad-aware, disk-cleanup, and defragging are all for naught? My 3DMark06 score placed exactly where it was supposed to: Above average. And yet somehow my so called infested PC is so infested that one person with a lesser system than me can raid with max settings getting 70 FPS all the time and I get 9 FPS on "Extreme Quality" in a busy area. Really? Really? Really? One thing I've come to realize is that people always lie about their FPS, and most of the time they overrate their performance. Maybe even I am lying, but then again, I think I've set myself up to be more credible than anyone so far. Again, I find it hard to believe people with similar or worse specs (or what do ya know, post no specs at all!) are getting such a phenomenal increase in performance than me. I don't believe it and if you really are getting 70 FPS with full shadows on, I'd love to see your screenshot and your specs. So yeah, I'm talking big right now, and that's because I absolutely believe these people aren't getting the FPS they claim. If you wish to force me to put my foot in mouth, produce a screenshot like I requested (and better yet, include the "extreme performance" on your graphics menu in the same screenshot). Sure, you have no reason to do me a favor, but just think of it as a chance to point and laugh at someone and make a fool of them. And if you happen to show me a similar system that is running at max graphics and doing it well, then perhaps I will try to find the source of the problem. But right now, odds are stacked against it being me. In fact, my brother's PC is the exact same build as mine and his is only a few weeks old. I shall be testing it on his as well. So if that prooves to run the same, I'd start to count out your spyware theory. EDIT: Indeed, his also ran at a constant 10-20 FPS on extreme quality in Garowyn. Perhaps there are other explainations. Perhaps it's my build. But it runs games and benchmarks fine. Perhaps EQ2 runs horribly with ATI card. Maybe, haven't seen anyone say anything about this. Maybe I don't know of important graphical settings to turn down, despite my constant tinkering with it. Maybe it's just EQ2 and these people are candy coating their FPS.

10-26-2008, 07:31 PM	#11
Lethe5683 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,351	Well yes in many areas of towns and such my fps goes to 20 something but that doesn't bother me as much as how dead the world looks without shadows.

10-26-2008, 07:42 PM	#12
Verrie77 Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 570	I dont have my settings very high. And Im happy if I have a fps at 20..im usually between 8-17 fps....my game runs smooth if im above 15.My PC is around 4 years old..ish.I would love to upgrade my PC, but money IRL doesnt come as easy as in EQ2 im afraid __________________ 89 Warden : Nelfia

10-26-2008, 07:56 PM	#13
crunk33 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28	Lethe5683 wrote: Well yes in many areas of towns and such my fps goes to 20 something but that doesn't bother me as much as how dead the world looks without shadows. That sounds more like it as I experience a similar effect. Perhaps I'm making my FPS sound worse than they are. With full shadows on, I don't run at 20-30 FPS all the time, but only in NPC/PC crowded areas, which I have tried to stress. I too can get 40-60 FPS out in the field with shadows on. It seems we are of a different frame of mind. You on one hand prefer the world to look better and aren't bothered by the drop in FPS. I, on the other hand, hate noticing my FPS dropping and like to have smooth transition between town and field without having to change settings. I personally never want to drop below 30 and in order to achieve that, I have to turn shadows off. This is what I mean by running well. Although, I'm still not sure I believe your Extreme Quality claim (granted, you haven't posted your specs, so you could be running on a $3000 home built computer for all I know). I have noticed the visual difference between Extreme and Very High/High quality is minimal, and a lot of the performance difference gets wasted on small sliders that you really don't notice much. On Extreme Quality, it is possible for me to get 40 FPS, but that's if I'm looking at a very graphically uninteresting place. If I'm looking out over a hill or something at the mass field before me or I'm running through a town, I will constantly drop into the 10-20 FPS range at Extreme Quality.

10-26-2008, 08:45 PM	#14
thephantomposter Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 573	Due to different reasons, I had to reformat a few times. One huge difference for me, anti virus software. I can run in EQ2s extreme settings(without adjusting any settings) if my anti-virus software is not installed. Not turned off but not installed. When it was installed and disabled, I could barely run one step above balanced. I run an amd athlon 64x2 4200, 2GBs of RAM, I have EQ2 on a seperate drive, my video card is the ATI 4850. I have nothing else that runs in the back ground. No roxio burning software, anti spyware, etc. It is just my gaming pc. I do not download anything or install anything even just to try. Except in the main city, like Gorowyn(5-10 ugly), I get 20 to 30 FPS and very rarely do I get lag, I do not raid and if I group I group with 1 to 3 people with no drop in FPS. EQ2s dual core support helped make it more constant for me too. If you have a new brand name computer, go through the add/remove programs and remove everything you do not need. It is best if you have a fresh install of windows and add only what you need. I am not trying to prove anything, this is just what gets me what I want from EQ2, I love the extreme settings, once I tried it out, wow!!! I couldn't go back.

10-26-2008, 10:37 PM	#15
NorrinRadd Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 133	Crunk33, why would you ask if anyone can run well with full shadows on( including Torch Shadows) & when they reply they can and give you their PC specs you don't believe them? I run fully maxxed even when Raiding & its the same as when I'm in any zone, NO issues at all. I don't have any reason to post in this thread and give you false information just thought I'd reply to your original question honestly. __________________ The delusions in this thread are awe-inspiring.

10-27-2008, 12:18 AM	#16
crunk33 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28	NorrinRadd wrote: Crunk33, why would you ask if anyone can run well with full shadows on( including Torch Shadows) & when they reply they can and give you their PC specs you don't believe them? I run fully maxxed even when Raiding & its the same as when I'm in any zone, NO issues at all. I don't have any reason to post in this thread and give you false information just thought I'd reply to your original question honestly. Because half of them are like you and don't post specs or screenshot, thus making your posts useless information. The other half think 20-30 FPS is running a game well, but the problem with that is they sugar coat it and don't tell you the real story. So to them running "well" is running at a sluggish 20 FPS. "I run the game at max and get 15 FPS in raids and it's uber!" Except they leave out the 15 FPS part. And why do I not believe them? It's not that I don't believe there are people out there who can run at max. It's the fact that someone with worse or equivalent specs is claiming to run the game significantly better than I do when there is no explaination for it. What's your explaination? That I have spyware? No. That my computer sucks? No. Refer to other games running well (i.e. UT3 at max) and benchmarking. That I'm editing high-res pictures in photoshop and scanning my computers for viruses while I simultaneously edit a video and play EQ2? No. That I should delete everything off my computer and use it like a console gaming machine? Hell no. So how is it that some of these people magically run the game extremely well and yet I get 10 FPS on extreme settings in certain areas? Now if it were my 10 FPS to your 25 FPS, maybe I could see something there, but when it's my 10 FPS to your 70 FPS, something doesn't add up, and so far I've already had one person correct themselves on the FPS they get in busy areas. But then again, you didn't post a screenshot of your FPS, didn't list your specs, and didn't even bother to mention what FPS you're getting, so why did you even bother trying to give me information when you didn't include anything useful in it to begin with? If someone could kindly explain how TWO exact same PCs are running this game like crap in busy areas on max settings while other similar systems are supposedly cutting through this game on max like butter, I'd really love to hear it. In-depth specs if interested: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/P...Number=10533488

10-27-2008, 12:36 AM	#17
NorrinRadd Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 133	You asked if anyone could run the game well with full shadows on originally. I posted my PC specs in the 1st post I wrote in this topic(try going back & actually reading it). I'm not here to argue with you at all, just thought I'd answer your question & for the record we don't have the same or equivalent specs. You also didn't ask for Screenshots or proof regarding FPS in your original post & as I was at work allday & just now saw the reply post you wrote in regards to my original post there are no screenshots to show you for "proof". To be quite honest I could login & take some to show you but that would be pointless. Ignore my original post & I'll respectfully bow out of your topic. __________________ The delusions in this thread are awe-inspiring.

10-27-2008, 01:03 AM	#18
crunk33 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28	NorrinRadd wrote: You asked if anyone could run the game well with full shadows on originally. I posted my PC specs in the 1st post I wrote in this topic(try going back & actually reading it). I'm not here to argue with you at all, just thought I'd answer your question & for the record we don't have the same or equivalent specs. My mistake on not realize you had posted before. Not similar specs? Lets look at benchmarks, shall we? Q9300 vs E8500 http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cp...ad-q9300_9.html Yours wins out in processor power, but loses out in gaming, which is exactly why I went with a C2D because dual core offers more bang for you buck for gaming. 9800 GT vs 4870 http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...-Score,794.html Mine beats yours again in that particular benchmark. If you look at other ones on the site, they can vary depending on the game benchmark, but the two are typically about the same. You didn't mention any OCing, so I can only assume you're running at stock speeds and the other specs listed aren't really gonna matter much or are the same as mine to begin with. So how are we so disimilar again? The only argument I see you make from this is that EQ2 runs better on Quad than on Dual core processors. EDIT: Or that EQ2 is better optimized for GeForce cards...but that's an astounding difference if I've ever seen one.

10-27-2008, 01:25 AM	#19
thephantomposter Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 573	lol, there is a spec difference and then there is a show me the difference. Just because a computer out specs another computer in no way guarantees it will out perform it. Some top of the line products do not gel with other top of the line products. Getting the best mother board with the best processor with the best video card with the best sound card might do more harm than good. Maybe it is hard to compare apples to apples because the main part of a product ie: the graphics chip may not work well with who built the board it goes on. Then there is the software issue, up to date drivers? Maybe the up to date driver has an issue and the previous version is better at the moment. Are they certified drivers? What programs are running in the background? Something as simple as a logitech top of the line gaming mouse(My friend had this) cuts into the processing power that cut his frame rate down to nothing. Changing that in his case changed everything. I run smooth with no hesitation unless I am in city. Anyways, I gave some things to look at for ya to try and help you out, good luck and I hope you find what your looking for. Nobody needs to prove anything to you, if what is working for them is working then more power to them. They are enjoying themselves.

10-27-2008, 11:07 AM	#20
Rorasis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 345	2 8800GTX and a quadcore at 3.47ghz. q6600 I think. Shadows freaking kill my performance. They make me drop to unplayable levels, even after this halfassed multicore support.

10-27-2008, 04:44 PM	#21
Armawk Server: Everfrost Guild: Nos Es Rutilus Rank: Tirones Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,240	Never ever played an MMO that didnt have framerate dips below 30 in busy areas, settings and hardware regardless. There are way way too many factors, and graphics is only one of them. That said, I have hardware almost identical to the OP (same processor, 4Gddr2-800 ram, 4850 instead of 4870) but run XP Pro not vista, and with settings based on very high quality (with some personal tweaks of things I like different) I am running mostly between 60-100 FPS, and in city areas between 30-50 with very occasional dips. One factor I find very very significant in speed is that I now run eq2 on a hard drive I dont use for anything but application/game storage, not on my system or main data drives. I found this made things consistent and removed most speed dips.

10-27-2008, 05:29 PM	#22
thephantomposter Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 573	I wonder if that makes a difference because one of the things that is different when I was having performance issues was buying a seperate drive for just gaming and data. Correct me if I am wrong but if window's paging/caching system is on the same drive as the game, could that hinder performance?

10-27-2008, 06:02 PM	#23
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	thephantomposter wrote: I wonder if that makes a difference because one of the things that is different when I was having performance issues was buying a seperate drive for just gaming and data. Correct me if I am wrong but if window's paging/caching system is on the same drive as the game, could that hinder performance? That would make sence if it is trying to Read and Write to the drive at the same time. __________________

10-27-2008, 10:15 PM	#24
StormCinder Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,009	crunk33 wrote: I have a hard time believing some of what you people claim. First and foremost you don't specify what you claim as shadows. Character/environmental shadows I can possibly believe, but all shadows including torch shadows I absolutely can't believe. 20-30 FPS in a crowded area is not acceptable to me. I can get 50-70 in a barren zone as well, but if I'm getting 20-30 in a town, that's not what I call running well. Then someone claiming they're running maxed WHILE raiding I can believe even less. I've tried the "Extreme Quality" (aka maxed) setting, and it just brings your computer to a stuttering 15-20 FPS on my system in town areas. Without further ado, my own screenshots on Garowyn docks in the same spot each time. The second and third SS are taken without particle effects on. My particle sliders are normally at about half (whatever balanced has it set on) and the effects are "very high," with not even an noticeable performance increase when changing them to "average." My normal settings 37 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000032.jpg Environmental/Character/Torch shadows on - Average shadow quantity 26 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000030.jpg Same as above, but running at 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200 28 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Q2_000031-1.jpg Character/Environmental shadows on only (back at 1920x1200) and particle on 32 FPS http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../EQ2_000034.jpg As you'll notice, the first and last SS have hardly any visual difference. This is because it was nighttime. At night or in an roofed area, the only shadows that will appear are torch shadows. But you'll notice there's a performance drop even though you can't tell the difference at night. EDIT: The first SS being one without shadows on at all and the last being with only character/environ shadows. I challenge anyone that wants to claim they are running max and wants to put me in my place, to go the same spot (Garowyn docks) and take screens of yourself in the same exact place, post your important settings, and post what resolution you are on and your PC specs if necessary. EDIT: You may want to note if you have a torch equipped on your character or not. As it is now, I'm not inclined to believe anyone, especially someone with lesser PC specs than me, can run this game at near max and run it well in busy areas and especially while raiding. Can you give a zone/LOC for this location, please? SC EDIT. For lack of a /LOC I went running around Gorowyn and took a bunch of screenies. Will post when I have somewhere to host them. Regardess, I run at 1680x1050. Added all lighting effects maxed minus shadows and dropped to about 50fps. Added all shadows...basically maxed everything..shadows, #light sources, #player torches, lighting, etc (basically went down the list and switched all to maximum and moved all sliders to right) and came down to 43-45. Tried a couple of different places...found a bar-like area on second floor of city that had lots of purple hanging paper lamps and multiple NPCs, 19 players in zone....dropped to 37 at one point, but stayed in mid-upper 40s consistantly. I noticed that if I dropped specular lighting (leaving shadows on) I got back about 10fps. I've got a torch equipped (you owe me 3 silver for the torch I had to buy). Not sure how that rates against yours, but I do like my new settings. Will be keeping the shadows. TY. __________________ ______________________________________________ Hostis Humani Generis curÂ·mudgÂ·eon (kr-mjn) n. An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.

10-30-2008, 09:52 AM	#25
Zutan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 497	I'm currently set to "High Quality" and added all shadow options, including shadows from offscreen sources. The game works great and doesnt lag for me. I could not do this at all until the multi-core support came along. __________________

11-02-2008, 05:43 AM	#26
NoobToEQ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 15	If anyone wants to get better performance but can live with more jaggies I recommend lower the Lighting Resolution found under the performance settings in display. By doing that I am now playing at a steady 60fps with shadows fully on and all the other fluff like bloom and flora. I am running: AMD 6000+ X2(dual core) 2GB DDR2 8500 RAM(gonna upgrade to 4 in 2 months) 7900GTX 512VRAM (4870x2 in 2 months gonna be fun to see how it handles eq2 =P)

11-02-2008, 08:33 AM	#27
Roybob Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 155	My take on all this, for what it's worth... First off, I myself do not run with environmental or other fancy shadows except for character shadows. I've experimented with environmental shadows a few times and didn't notice enough consistant visual improvement to justify the potential performance drop. So shadows themselves are not my main thrust. I run EQ at Very High Quaility 1280x1024, with Character LOD Textures reduced to High (back when I got out_of_memory crashes that setting helped reduce them) but light-sources bumped up to circa 14. My computer consists of an Intel e6600 2.4ghz CPU (not overclocked), 4gb DDR2800 ram (reduced to 667 for stability), nVidia 650i chipset motherboard, nVidia 8800gts 640mb (G80) GPU with 163xx driver (old, but if it ain't broke...), X-fi soundcard with recent driver and Alchemy (to enable EAX), single SATA hard drive with EQ2 on its on partition, Vista64 SP1. My antivirus is the free version of Avast since it's purported to use fewer system resources than most competitors. EQ2 runs in a full screen window. x16 AF (but not AA) is enable in-game via nVidia's control panel and an EQ2.ini mod. Vista's "side-bar" is disabled. Aero is enabled. UAC is disabled. I often have an instance of Firefox 3x minimized on the taskbar to readily look up quest or other info. Very High Quality with the mentioned mods works well for me except during the very few raids I participate in, when I drop to balanced. I've thought to experiment and see if a highly modified High Quality setting would get me through raids, but it's just not worth the hassle for the little I do them. Better safe than sorry in any case. For the type of play I normally do ... solo and group quests, dungeon/instance crawls, etc. ... I've few complaints. Yes, every once in a while I notice lag, but it tends to be in specific locales, short-lived, and non show-stopping. When the game's performance meter was introduced, I was therefore surprised to see that during numerous adventures my FPS registered in the twenties and sometimes dipped into the teens. This worried me at first, since many consider 30FPS minimal for acceptable performance. But I ran smoothly in the twenties! (Mind you, my FPS is often much higher, but that's beside the point.) It quickly dawned on me that FPS values in-and-of-themselves are a tool to guage system/program performance and a means to troubleshoot performance issues. But they should not, in my opinion, be the sole arbitrator of game enjoyment. What counts is what you see on-screen. Does the game seem smooth at your preferred quality setting? If so, what matter if the FPS meter reads 20, 30, 60, or 120? Conversely, choppiness at high FPS should be considered unacceptable. I now rarely enable the performance meter, and then only when encountering connection/visual lag. Some weeks back I experienced noticeable lag/choppiness of longer duration than normal. Turning on the meter I was amazed to see FPS constantly in the 40s! Go figure. I do wonder if some folk are simply more sensative to FPS than others? Back when CRT monitors ruled the earth, I visited friends whose monitor refresh-rates were invariably left at low default settings. Flicker drove me up the wall. I'd dig into their video control panel and adjust refresh to an acceptable level (when possible). I'd then explain what I'd done and why. Looks and comments received afterward frequently indicated that they either didn't notice the difference or it was no big deal to them. This is getting overly long. I suppose the gist of it all is to not get too hung up on numbers for numbers' sake. Performance meter and FPS are valuable, but what counts in the long run is your impression of what's happening onscreen. If what you see looks to be running smoothly, then for you it is running smoothly regardless of FPS reading. Conversely, if FPS reads high but the game seems choppy or laggy, then for you it is choppy or laggy. -Roybob

11-02-2008, 12:25 PM	#28
thephantomposter Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 573	Roybob wrote: do wonder if some folk are simply more sensative to FPS than others? Back when CRT monitors ruled the earth, I visited friends whose monitor refresh-rates were invariably left at low default settings. Flicker drove me up the wall. I'd dig into their graphic settings and adjust refresh to an acceptable level (when possible). I'd then explain what I'd done and why. Looks and comments received afterward frequently indicated that they either didn't notice the difference or it was no big deal to them. Way to funny, I thought I was the only one. I could go onto someones computer and see that it was below 80hz. Drove me crazy! Most of them wondered what I did. The odd person thanked me because it bothered them too but did not realize you could change that. I agree with all of what you posted.

11-02-2008, 04:27 PM	#29
Lethe5683 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 5,351	thephantomposter wrote: Roybob wrote: do wonder if some folk are simply more sensative to FPS than others? Back when CRT monitors ruled the earth, I visited friends whose monitor refresh-rates were invariably left at low default settings. Flicker drove me up the wall. I'd dig into their graphic settings and adjust refresh to an acceptable level (when possible). I'd then explain what I'd done and why. Looks and comments received afterward frequently indicated that they either didn't notice the difference or it was no big deal to them. Way to funny, I thought I was the only one. I could go onto someones computer and see that it was below 80hz. Drove me crazy! Most of them wondered what I did. The odd person thanked me because it bothered them too but did not realize you could change that. I agree with all of what you posted. Yeah that drove me crazy too.

11-03-2008, 03:15 PM	#30
adolf102 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 176	I have 280 GTX 1GB (overclocked by some 50 Mhz) that in 4GB Ram along with 3.2 GHz Core2 Duo. I play in window mode at 1920x1200 I do play with shadows as I really like the look of those. What I've noticed that some areas are more some less shadow sensitive when it comes to FPS. Anyway outside zones my FPS vary from ~10 FPS to ~40 FPS. I can get ocassional spikes to 60 and drops to 7-8. Both are rare. So in the end it is semi playable considering EQ2 was always slow. And again don't expect miracles And as pre-posters said those shadows can be configured in many/many ways so saying "with shadows" is not prcise enough. Day/night also affects FPS here.