COERCER LU45 ACTIVE ON TEST! - Details

[XFnarX]

First off, GO TEST AND /FEEDBACK THE RESULTS PLEASE!Here's what the test notes listed.Coercer Changes:Possession has been renamed to Possess Essence.  It now takes control of your target’s essence and makes them into a pet that you can control.Thoughtstones are no longer required as components for spells.The Despotic Mind line will now trigger off player based spell attacks.  In addition there is a new level 80 version called Tyrranous Mind  The other reactive lines have changed to be based on taking damage from when a spell hits the NPC.Puppetmaster has received an additional puppet.The Harmonious link line now reduces hate position when the player takes a melee hit.Enchanter Changes:The stun and stifle lines will now do damage rather than drain power.Enchanters will now also receive Call Servant and Shrink Servant at level 10.AA Changes:Enchanter Volatile Magic will now be a 15% boost that is always on.CoercerTashania will now debuff all magical resistances but slightly less than before.Coercive Healing will now give additional bonuses to reactive heal amount, beneficial casting time and beneficial reuse time.Manaward now acts as a true ward with a ratio of 1 health to 1.5 power.Discuss! (and yes these are copy/pasted from the test notes directly, this is not a teaser.)

[XFnarX]

I looked at the actual changes by logging in... honestly. We went from ok DPS to HOLY BABY JESBUS IN A CAN type DPS. This is way to over powered... I like it. But I don't see everything happening.

[Rijacki]

I did my /testcopy after the raid last night with my 80 coercer (if I'd gotten any new loot, I wanted to have it there, too ).  I'll /testcopy with my baby level 28 coercer tonight or soon (want to test the mid-range, too, ya know).  The baby just got the first of the * Mind spells when she dinged and I need to get the adept I to put in her inventory before doing the copy I just got home and am paaaaaatching (and I need to finish up some work for work... bleah).

[XFnarX]

I like the Coercive healing and Mana Ward changes. Maybe the CataMind change and Possession, but everything else is TO much. Ok, NOW discuss =p

[Rijacki]

So funny.... 6 people online: one anonymous, 4 coercers, and 1 shadowknight.  Hey!!!  What's that shadowknight doing on -our- server!  The nerve!*smirk*I'm heading to the Wall.  I've screen shot my current spells on Test and will do the same on Live for the side by sides.  I'm going to pretend I'm a ranger and go play with the Wall a bit   (yes, I am running ACT)

[Jesdyr]

Anyone else see a problem with possession being 3 Conc ? this means it is either charm or possess essence .. which isnt too bad but why would you use that when you can use charm? .. Ok it is safer and can be used on raids, but it is worth the 3 Conc in either of those settings?

[KamidariTuibumbi]

The dps felt pretty high to me, but I've never really soloed with a dps class before, so I don't know how to compare.  I was getting some pretty high numbers from act on some fights, but I know those fights also lasted longer than act said.  Maybe it doesn't start until there's damage or something?  I'm talking 2kdps variance on the parses, so I'm reluctant to post numbers because they were so different.Our dps definitely seemed pretty bursty: Spend a few seconds rooting, debuffing, and stacking reactives on the mob, then start casting and watch its hp drop like a rock.I think at 3 conc, the possession pet will pretty much be relegated to solo situations.  It seemed to be only putting out like 100-150dps, using nuking mobs in JW which would have put out much more than that when charmed.  Clearly I don't expect it to be anywhere near as powerful as a charmed pet, but I don't think its dps anywhere near justifies using it in a group (or raid) instead of dps buffing the melee toons.  I would think 1 conc, with a restriction that it can't be cast when charm is active would be more reasonable.  I didn't really test possessing too many different mobs, but it did work on a lvl100 epic x4 guard, but didn't work on General V'Deers.  I thought that the pet shrink and call spells were nice surprises, and I liked how you could possess a mob at pretty much any distance, because you're the target of the spell, not the mob.  Also, it was nice to be able to take a bio break without worrying about coming back dead. So far, I think it looks very promising!

[Rijacki]

The DPS felt a bit high but.... *giggles like an impish school girl*  That is definitely some bit of fun!  I had to go off an find a yellow heroic, Eldrig the Young *laugh*.  But.. umm.. the elite Dracuruion fireguard (on the road to VP) reminded me I am squishy and only one hit can make me into paste *laugh*.I kept needing to remind myself to hit certain spells I generally avoid unless I need them.. stun, silence, ya know...3 concentration on Posses means we still won't get a pet in groups or raids because the concentration is needed for buffs.  I wish they'd come up with a different mechanism that would make charm and possess not usable at the same time while making posses viable in groups/raids.But.. damage... oh my holy... if I could get the fight to last a fair amount of time, even without being kitted up to the gills in the best stuff (I'm kitted in good stuff, not great stuff), I can see easy 2K happening on a regular basis. But... the long fights are even more paramount than before.  Other than The Wall, Eldrig was my longest fight and even he died way too soon to get the full range in motion.  Even without getting a good rhythm with the new spells and their damage maximised, 2K parse.Click for larger view.I'm doing some trim on the spell screenshots I took...Almost forgot the pie!Click for the damage numbers.

[Agaxal]

If things stay the way they are, high-end raid coercers will be doing 9k-10k a fight.its that OP, its not even funny.agressiv

[XFnarX]

I know isn't it funny =DAnd just being curious is...A raid or solo parse? And how much damage did you do. Because my chart looks totally different unless the mob is AE happy.

[Nuhus]

This is some RoK parses with posessed essence named the same (dps from pets really minimal majority coming from reactives)(Solo mobs)Allies: (00:12) 14584 | 1215.33 [Nolus-Convulsions-1211]Nolus 14584 | 1215.33Allies: (00:14) 13738 | 981.29 [Nolus-Convulsions-1206]Nolus 13738 | 981.29Allies: (00:15) 13807 | 920.47 [Nolus-Convulsions-1289]Nolus 13807 | 920.47Allies: (00:13) 11954 | 919.54 [Nolus-Convulsions-1292]Nolus 11954 | 919.54Allies: (00:16) 14828 | 926.75 [Nolus-Convulsions-1456]Nolus 14828 | 926.75Allies: (00:12) 14411 | 1200.92 [Nolus-Convulsions-1386]Nolus 14411 | 1200.92(blue con)Allies: (00:13) 14881 | 1144.69 [Nolus-Convulsions-1372]Nolus 14881 | 1144.69Allies: (00:16) 15209 | 950.56 [Nolus-Convulsions-1224]Nolus 15209 | 950.56Allies: (00:15) 15068 | 1004.53 [Nolus-Convulsions-1373]Nolus 15068 | 1004.53Allies: (00:20) 14974 | 748.70 [Nolus-Convulsions-1356]Nolus 14974 | 748.70Allies: (00:15) 14758 | 983.87 [Nolus-Convulsions-1493]Nolus 14758 | 983.87Allies: (00:12) 14851 | 1237.58 [Nolus-Convulsions-1344]Nolus 14851 | 1237.58(white con)Allies: (00:17) 15152 | 891.29 [Nolus-Convulsions-1292]Nolus 15152 | 891.29Allies: (00:21) 15956 | 759.81 [Nolus-Convulsions-1353]Nolus 15956 | 759.81Allies: (00:17) 15209 | 894.65 [Nolus-Convulsions-1354]Nolus 15209 | 894.65Allies: (00:15) 16198 | 1079.87 [Nolus-Convulsions-1267]Nolus 16198 | 1079.87Allies: (00:17) 15522 | 913.06 [Nolus-Convulsions-1458]Nolus 15522 | 913.06Allies: (00:21) 16064 | 764.95 [Nolus-Convulsions-1406]Nolus 16064 | 764.95(yellow)Bold is DPS, level 71 Coercer mostly mastered out.

[Xethren]

So far the changes have yeilded very positive results. Im quite happy with them. Possession takes 3 Con because its now a Charm, so to speak. a perma-till-you-zone charm in fact. Im not that high yet to get it, but it will be so nice to have a pet and be able to go afk without worring about coming back taking a dirt nap.

[Rijacki]

XFnarX wrote:

I know isn't it funny =DAnd just being curious is...A raid or solo parse? And how much damage did you do. Because my chart looks totally different unless the mob is AE happy.

Solo with a dragonfly pet.  If you click the pie in my post up there, you'll get the whole damage breakdown from ACT.Note: I do have a mixture of master I and adept III with one adept I (silence). I have a mixture of T8 legendary and fabled with a few treasured (I think).  My gear is a mixture of T8 quest rewards and some T8 (T1 &T2) raid drops.  I also only have my fabled epic.  I'm in Legion of the White Rose on Guk, we're only raiding T1/T2 and SoH. I copied Rjack right after our raid on Tues (Korsha up to the twins, an enchanter piece dropped that the illusionist got *sniffle*, and Thugga, didn't get anything but debt there, too *sniffle*). Like I said, I'm in good stuff not great *grin*To give the devs a fuller picture, we really need to have more coercers of all types, fully raid kitted and mostly mastered down to a mix of mastercrafted and quest rewards with adepts and even at different level ranges. (I just did a /testcopy on my level 28 coercer, after getting her new adept Is *laugh*).Oh... and why would the mob being AE happy have anything to do with the pie?  This is on Test Copy with the new spells that don't rely on the mob doing anything except stand there and die?

[Nor]

So the manaward AA -  If I'm looking at it correctly, a manapool of 5,000 will give you a ward of 3,500?

(5,000 x 1.05 = 5,250 / 1.5 = 3,500)

I assume it eats up the mana as it absorbs the damage, or does it drain your mana all in one shot?  What happens if it expires and there is damage left on the ward, do you get it back into your mana pool, does it heal damage like a shaman ward, or does it just get lost into the black reaches of the netherworld?

[Rarlin]

Noruh wrote:

So the manaward AA -  If I'm looking at it correctly, a manapool of 5,000 will give you a ward of 3,500?

(5,000 x 1.05 = 5,250 / 1.5 = 3,500)

I assume it eats up the mana as it absorbs the damage, or does it drain your mana all in one shot?  What happens if it expires and there is damage left on the ward, do you get it back into your mana pool, does it heal damage like a shaman ward, or does it just get lost into the black reaches of the netherworld?

Actually, I believe it only uses 95% of your powerpool, so with that in mind, a 5000 powerpool would be:

5000 * .95 = 4750 -> 4750 / 1.5 = 3167

At least, that's the way I understood it from the notes and descriptions.

[Nor]

That makes more sense, the remaining questions still stand though...

• Does the mana get drained initially, or as the damage is absorbed?
• What happens if the ward expired?
• Does it heal for the reamaining mana/damage?
• Does the remaining ward go back into your power pool as unused mana?
• Does it just dissapear?

[XFnarX]

Noruh wrote:

That makes more sense, the remaining questions still stand though...

• Does the mana get drained initially, or as the damage is absorbed?
• What happens if the ward expired?
• Does it heal for the reamaining mana/damage?
• Does the remaining ward go back into your power pool as unused mana?
• Does it just dissapear?

It basically works like the defiler Soul Ward. You click the button, you lose ALL your power down to 5% marker instantly and it wards the target for 1 point of damage for every 1.5 points of power you sacrificed. You get nothing back.

[Nor]

Wow, thats pretty intense....not sure if that seems worth it, or not?

[Dallun]

Well... seems like a great use of the mythical now doesn't it?Dallun/FioneWarden/IllusionistAntonia Bayle

[Andu]

Looking at those spell descriptions, my guess is that the reactives are supposed to have only 3 triggers not 5. That would help explain the overpowered dps somewhat.

[Quarr]

I just viewed my coercers spells on test and they are different from the ones posted.

Hostage 1506-1825 m1

Absolute 842-985, 214-262/2.6 A3

Intrepid Focus  1150-1390 A3

Spell Curse 1346-1630 A3

Cataclysmic Mind 1174-1420 m1

Intelligence is 815.  Have they been changed already? Or does Intelligence make that much of a difference?

[Eriol]

Why wasn't the "not very good reward" of the risk vs reward for Charm itself addressed?  And what about the mid-level coercers who do not have possession yet?  We need to deal with the "unique aspects" of charm for all that time?Personally I'd ditch Charm entirely and extend the possess essence thing all the way down to lowbie levels, and make it as powerful as any other perma-pet from the summoner classes, it's just the type of mob you cast it on determines if it's more melee dps, tank, or caster.  Charm is used so seldom for serious CC that I'd completely give it up if the reliable pet was there.And even if you ditch my last paragraph entirely, charm is NOT balanced at 3 concentration slots, and IMO neither is the new possession at 3 slots.  There just pretty much always seems to be better things to do with those slots IMO.Though take all this with a grain of salt, as my coercer alt is mid-level, not top.

[Alfgand]

Eriol wrote:

Why wasn't the "not very good reward" of the risk vs reward for Charm itself addressed?  And what about the mid-level coercers who do not have possession yet?  We need to deal with the "unique aspects" of charm for all that time?Personally I'd ditch Charm entirely and extend the possess essence thing all the way down to lowbie levels, and make it as powerful as any other perma-pet from the summoner classes, it's just the type of mob you cast it on determines if it's more melee dps, tank, or caster.  Charm is used so seldom for serious CC that I'd completely give it up if the reliable pet was there.And even if you ditch my last paragraph entirely, charm is NOT balanced at 3 concentration slots, and IMO neither is the new possession at 3 slots.  There just pretty much always seems to be better things to do with those slots IMO.Though take all this with a grain of salt, as my coercer alt is mid-level, not top.

Charm is fine the way it is. Charm is your soloing friend. Its not for raids and its seldom used in groups. Sometimes it is nice in groups but you need a Coercer friendly/educated/experianced group and those are rare.

[xpraetorianx]

actually the dps is not that high... you cant accurately test dps on the flimsy solo con mobs in the game, even Dirges i know can hit a 3k Parse.....With the recasts of both spells burst or not, in a raid setting its not going to be that high.  You guys are all going gagga over droppign a pittily solo mob or mini heroic pretty fast when  a swashy or brigand can still drop it faster.

[Nuhus]

It's better than it was. If I could find 23 people on test copy willing to go raid EH or something, I'd be more than willing.

[Jeepned2]

First of all...to those of you on test and feeding us this information, Thank you.Yes I still have a lot of questions about some of this stuff. Do I think that possession is going to be used by me very much? No not really. But still nice to have in my bag of tricks. As for the Manaward, for me as an MT group, raiding Coercer, this is HUGE. Yes it drops me to 5% mana, so what? I have 11.5K mana self buffed. So that's an extra 5.75K ward for the MT? Did I figure that right? Dang straight that's HUGE. I admit that you wouldn't want to use this all the time it's up. First, it would destroy your DPS. Second, it just isn't needed every time it's up. But, there are numerous timed AOE's in VP that this could easily save a raid from wiping by saving the MT's rear end. Another HUGE upgrade that hasn't really been talked about yet is Coercive Healing. The recast and casting speed addition is going to be a big deal to the MT Mystic/Defiler.Overall, I really like what I have seen so far. Again are a few of the spells a little disappointing? Sure. I wasn't expecting near as much as we gotten though. So no complaining here. If Possession doesn't work just the way we had hoped, oh well. The time and effort that SoE has put in the rest of the changes for us more then makes up for any disappointment I might have in a few of the spell changes.Do I expect to see a huge just in our dps? No I really don't. An increase yes, but not huge. When the raid leader finds out about the changes to Peaceful Link, Manaward, Tas, and  Coercive Healing and as few of our other new toys, he/she will be expecting us to provide that utility to it's maximum. These changes have done one GIGANTIC favor for us though, they have reaffirmed our position in the MT group. For now at least I think that guilds that had started to sit their Coercers are going to be screaming to get them back in the MT group. And for the guilds that got rid of their Coercers, they are really going to wish they hadn't.So if it goes live as is, I will be doing the happy dance for a very long time. Well until the next GU comes out.

[Kerri]

Overall I like some of the new changes. I just wish that we can get a raid together on Test because the soloing mobs is not a good reflection on what raid dps will be like.

Possession really needs to go back to the drawing board. Taking 3 con slots and being a pretty poor pet why bother with it when you can use Charm. If I wanted a safe pet I would have rolled an Illusionist.

[Rijacki]

Not the best possible presentation (trying for quick, not elegant), but some side by side comparisons to ponder.Coercer Changes comparisonsI've got my gear listed as well as my current stats when taking the screenshots (though I might have had an int drink I just ran out of).I was going to try to get melee Charm/Possess parses but Test seemed to be down when I tried to get on.. but that gave me more time to wrestle with the comparison page.As I said before, I am neither the best equipped nor do I have the ideal spell line up (not even on Live), but I'm not horrid, either *grin*

[Outerspace]

I'm disappointed that Kozak has not sorted out all the power drains such as Gaze and Brainshock.Posession is still a pointless novelty. At the moment from what I have read at least it seems like a single version of puppetmaster that's always on. Personally I think it would be cooler to have the possessed mob give our group a buff of some sort, so if you posess a caster you gain a few spell damage or some crit, or if it's a melee you gain some +DPS and/or +haste. That way the spell would at least have some value and some reason to use it.Apart from that changes all look good so far. Am I right in thinking Spell Curse, Cataclysmic Mind and Hostage are exactly the same in all but name? So if they are all on a mob and I fire a Hemorrhage at it, I get three procs?(waiting for my coercer to be copied)

[Dallun]

Rijacki,Stupid question, but does hostage, Spell curse, etc, also proc on a tick of a DoT?  I know it shouldn't... but all too often should be and reality don't seem to match up.Dallun/FioneWarden/IllusionistAntonia Bayle