Unbalanced gameplay, its time to fix this issue once and for all

Exzile · 03-07-2008, 08:52 PM

Once upon a time... pvp servers had two factions, a good and an evil. If you were a good class you were limited to Qeynos, with all that followed. Raiding was rough, not having certain classes, your guildmates enjoyed pvp to get both gear but also for the fun of it. Evil classes the same. Then Haven comes, a faction that can hold any good/evil class, and lo and behold if not a guild registrar shows up. So what consequences did this bring? Well all the sudden a faction was equiped with the combined power of all classes and surely enough high end raid guilds formed. The guilds grew stronger over time and dominated PVE contents with swift PVE server progression through raid tiers. Not surprisingly, these guilds ended up locking up any contested mob on the server in cooperation with each other. The arrogance of the exile guilds grew over time and even blocking out city guilds from entering instanced raid zones occur now.

So what does this mean then. Well now insanely overpowered mythical weapons are out - compared to anything else obtainable. This is entirely out of reach for city guilds for months to come. What does that do to PVP gameplay then. Well this once temporary exile faction pretty much will dominate anything that does not outnumber them vastly. Its unbalanced and pvp armor does not even out the game at all. It is exceedingly depressing to watch as exiles grow stronger and stronger and it is really close to a point where exiles are in god mode and only truly awful play on their side will render them beatable. Add in that many exiles post that token gaining rates are to fast for their taste for city factions and the ludicracy really comes out. It is time to close down the exile faction or open up all classes to the city factions. It is unbalanced and if people cant see that I am sure its due to their current existence in an exile guild. To SOE; would you risk loosing a few exile accounts to keep the rest of them or do you want to continue this line of making the game unbalanced and loose many city based accounts? I for one is running out of patience...

Exile guilds belong on a blue server, not on a PVP server, they never did and its time to fix this problem.

Probably most replies to this post will be from exile faction members, keep this in mind...

Oh · 03-07-2008, 10:03 PM

I don't PvP in this game, so i want to get that out of the way first.

Question why can't a good city guild recruite an evil city player? is that prohibited somehow? Assuming that it is (not sure how but i'm sure someone will clarify for me) then i can truely see the plight that you guys are in, and would have to agree that exile is really a bad thing for PvP servers. Although part of this could be mitigated by doing more PvE content, granted you might not have ALL of the class posibilities but there should be a good mix that you should win relatively speaking.

Ze · 03-07-2008, 10:12 PM

Is it really that bad? I have to admit, I don't play that much anymore, but I was under the impression that exiles had an easier time raiding, but gave up plenty of things for it (pvp rewards, city faction and so forth). In other words, it seems to me like a well balanced tradeoff, allowing for different styles. After all, if exiling is so much better for raiding, and raiding is what you desire, why not exile?

What I really find ridiculous is that exiling forces us to give up pvp benefits and to live in a place that feels like some junior programmer developed during a free Sunday afternoon during breaks in a WoW raid. But that is a whole different issue...

Truth is, I don't know how bad is it. Is raiding without specific classes really that disadvantageous? In scouts I don't see it - nor with dps casters. Are healers the real problem?

tanis147 · 03-07-2008, 10:16 PM

Ohiv wrote:

I don't PvP in this game, so i want to get that out of the way first.
Question why can't a good city guild recruite an evil city player? is that prohibited somehow? Assuming that it is (not sure how but i'm sure someone will clarify for me) then i can truely see the plight that you guys are in, and would have to agree that exile is really a bad thing for PvP servers. Although part of this could be mitigated by doing more PvE content, granted you might not have ALL of the class posibilities but there should be a good mix that you should win relatively speaking.

no you can not. it's good classes vs evil classes. the factions can not even talk in chat.

yohann koldheart · 03-07-2008, 10:18 PM

the lore of eq2 says freeport and qeynos are at war.. pvp servers follow that idea so you cant group,guild with the enemy.

lots of raid content is easier to do with classes from both sides so exiles do have a advantage there. however the raid content is doable with city raids they just have to be put together differently. this isnt really a problem on venekor yet because the only exiled guild just exiled recently and isnt raiding that much more then the city raids.

also just because you exile dont mean you have to only live in haven, when i was exiled i had a nice place in majdul , there is a quest for a call spell to take you there as well.

KatrinaDeath · 03-07-2008, 10:23 PM

What classes do you need that the other side has to offer? I'd really like to know.

Roald · 03-07-2008, 10:23 PM

Ohiv wrote:

I don't PvP in this game, so i want to get that out of the way first.
Question why can't a good city guild recruite an evil city player? is that prohibited somehow? Assuming that it is (not sure how but i'm sure someone will clarify for me) then i can truely see the plight that you guys are in, and would have to agree that exile is really a bad thing for PvP servers. Although part of this could be mitigated by doing more PvE content, granted you might not have ALL of the class posibilities but there should be a good mix that you should win relatively speaking.

Yea its prohibited, only slightly though SMILEY

Csky · 03-07-2008, 10:28 PM

the fix to exiles = make PVP gear have PVP bonuses for PVP only and make them the BEST weapons availiable for PVP since they were attained in PVP

and let exiles raid till thier hearts content for thier PVE gear that was attained in PVE..who cares if they have the best gear for PVE when PVPers have the best gear for PVP??

how now brown cow?

Exzile · 03-07-2008, 10:58 PM

Just to clarify, some think that a mix of all classes isent an advantage for PVE raid contents. I dont wish to comment too much on this as it is obvious to 99% of the people that read this post that all classes are a definate requirement to defeat EQ2 content, be it T5 or avatars. Anyway, city guilds would eventually defeat T2 raid instances I have no doubt. I dont see city based guilds in VP for another 6 months though. Its not because we are stupid and horrible at playing our classes. Current progress from city factions are limited to Overking, from dedicated raid guilds - this has created a trend that more and more guilds exile to be able to keep up and get mythical weapons. Qeynos guilds cannot get Coercer, Inquisitor, Defiler, Brigand, Necromancer, Shadowknight, Bruiser. Freeport cannot get Illusionist, Templar, Mystic, Swashbuckler, Conjurer, Palladin, Monk. Its an unfair advantage to have a 3rd faction that can get it all, remove exile guild registrar, make haven good or evil, or give everyone the same tools. If the exiles want our subpar pvp gear theyre more than welcome, though I highly doubt it would be an upgrade - 50% of it is not for my char...

Anyway, PVP against a VP geared exile with a mythical weapon is not my idea of PVP, I atleast would like to have a chance to win and not depend on the person being interrupted by something IRL. Its just not an even fight, Im not participating in that and SOE should even the field out before everyone leaves - other anticipated games are coming soon - heads up...

PS I play on Nagafen now, the sig is kinda old :/

Wildfury77 · 03-07-2008, 11:32 PM

Csky wrote:

the fix to exiles = make PVP gear have PVP bonuses for PVP only and make them the BEST weapons availiable for PVP since they were attained in PVP
and let exiles raid till thier hearts content for thier PVE gear that was attained in PVE..who cares if they have the best gear for PVE when PVPers have the best gear for PVP??
how now brown cow?

Agreed! Also, as i have said repeatedly SMILEY

, make Clerics and Rogues neutral classes available to both cities! That would significantly boost city raiding ability! (qeynos gets brigands+inquis & freeport swashie+templar).

Sorffats · 03-08-2008, 12:51 AM

Grondak@Nagafen wrote:

Csky wrote:
the fix to exiles = make PVP gear have PVP bonuses for PVP only and make them the BEST weapons availiable for PVP since they were attained in PVP
and let exiles raid till thier hearts content for thier PVE gear that was attained in PVE..who cares if they have the best gear for PVE when PVPers have the best gear for PVP??
how now brown cow?
Agreed! Also, as i have said repeatedly " width="15" height="15" />, make Clerics and Rogues neutral classes available to both cities! That would significantly boost city raiding ability! (qeynos gets brigands+inquis & freeport swashie+templar).

I say, forget stopping with just clerics and rogues being neutral. Make every single class available to either city alignment. To hell with lore. Lore is already broken because of exiled anyway. So a necro wants to play in Qeynos? Let 'em play in Qeynos. If we are talking lore...ogres, dark elves, trolls, iksar should not be allowed to betray at all because of their race anyway, but it is allowed. Why is race allowed and profession not allowed? So breaking on part of lore is ok but another isn't? Please, give me a break already. Give city factions access to all classes.

Csky · 03-08-2008, 05:24 AM

Naaa the lore is a good thing . theres other things that can be done like give the abilities that people claim are needed and buffs that stack to another class on each side, so it makes each side more effective at raiding without messing up the lore

Exzile · 03-08-2008, 03:34 PM

WTB comments from a developer... Some say that nothing will be done since some exile guilds have developers in them, I have no idea if thats true or just B/S. The lack of communication and attention to PVP servers is startling though. Its amazing that PVE comes before PVP on a PVP server...

Csky · 03-08-2008, 04:37 PM

its a PVE game with the added excitement of PVP.. dont ever think this is a PVP game because it isnt and never will be, the PVP is a bonus :p

Ol · 03-08-2008, 09:24 PM

Swisha@Nagafen wrote:

What classes do you need that the other side has to offer? I'd really like to know.

Well for one sk apposed to paladin. sk is more dps, paladin is more heal. same with bruiser and monk. bruiser is more dps, monk is other things(such as stealth and group fd). ranger and assassin ranger can snipe you down easily, assassin has to come to you. and finally, coerecer and illusionist. coerecer can mezz incredibly strong pets, while illys get some lame counterpart.

Csky · 03-08-2008, 09:27 PM

not one class you mentioned has any gamebreaking differences

Norrsken · 03-08-2008, 09:29 PM

Olik@Nagafen wrote:

Swisha@Nagafen wrote:
What classes do you need that the other side has to offer? I'd really like to know.
Well for one sk apposed to paladin. sk is more dps, paladin is more heal. same with bruiser and monk. bruiser is more dps, monk is other things(such as stealth and group fd). ranger and assassin ranger can snipe you down easily, assassin has to come to you. and finally, coerecer and illusionist. coerecer can mezz incredibly strong pets, while illys get some lame counterpart.

Nitpicking here, but coercers charm pets. Not mez.

Roald · 03-08-2008, 09:46 PM

Templar > Inquis

Conj > Necro

Illy > Coercer

All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts.

Shu · 03-08-2008, 10:05 PM

Milambers@Nagafen wrote:

Templar > Inquis     - this one is most important difference,   Templar is a must in tank group
~~Conj > Necro~~       no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking
~~Illy > Coercer~~      almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all
All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts.

i fixed it a bit. monk/bruiser sk/pally not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls)

KaiZas · 03-08-2008, 10:25 PM

And what exactly in the lore says the exile faction cannot exist? It's lore folks. (Badly) written by some dev. If it's in there now, it's part of the lore.Plus, it's an excellent way of putting in free for all pvp mechanics without having to actually implement a free for all server. Thus, with the exile faction, SOE caters to another pvp crowd. Now, I for one have given up on T8 pvp altogether. It feels to me like SOE went completely overboard with T8, they have jumped the shark. By adding another layer of uberness to most classes, they've overpowered the game in a way that can't be balanced anymore. The gear is ridiculous, the damage flying around equals the bizzare score system of a pinball machine. There's no fun to be had with the micro-fights we're given today. Most folk seem to gravitate towards the 5-second-fight class, making the problem even worse. When I look at the mythical weapons, I cringe. Luckily, we still have the reasonable lower tiers, where there's a challenge to be had by skill, not just godly powers. Running around FFA in those tiers is fun and engaging. There's no reason to take that out of the game. I find it a bit weird though... the game is clearly pve based. There's oodles more servers whitout pvp then there are with. Yet we get these weird lore-based restrictions of good and evil. Why can the two factions get along so well on the regular servers? Why are they allowed to intermingle, have guilds all around Norrath with players of any allignment? The true fight, the one some writer conjured up during creation of the game, is only being fought on the most neglected servers of them all. Weird. Factions I get. No factions at war, no pvp. As stated before, let all classes be neutral. What exactly is the point of denying one faction access to a class? Does it have to do with pvp balance? Highly unlikely, as they throw Haven in the mix, being able to pvp with every class available. There is absolutely no reason to restrict only the 3 pvp servers like this if you're just going to let the other 50 servers do their thing as they see fit.Lift the restrictions I say. Want a Qeynosian Shadowknight? Go ahead, roll one, betray him or her and there you are. Now what is so horrible about having an evil profession running around in Qeynos? The NPC's in Q will be complete jerks to you anyway, might as well keep your old profession. And it's not like Mss Bayle has never hired an assasin or two, I'm sure./rant off.

Amatheon · 03-08-2008, 11:07 PM

Shury in terms of PVP Templar is much better than a Inquis, sanctuary is an enormous boon. Illusionists own Coercers pvp wise as well except for when the Coercers could exploit the pet charm during the first couple of months of RoK. Conjurors as well are better than Necromancers in pvp because of the ae difference. In pvp anything but solo on solo ae dps is the undisputed winner. Rangers are more useful than Assassins because assassins have to be right on top of the people to kill them making pretty much sure they are locked down atleast some of the time by a tank. A ranger can sit outside anyones range and plink away. The rest of the classes that have counterparts seem to be pretty well balanced with perhaps the exception of bruiser/monk since the bruiser seems to get nerfed every other patch.

Roald · 03-09-2008, 08:20 AM

Shury@Nagafen wrote:

Milambers@Nagafen wrote:
Templar > Inquis     - this one is most important difference,   Templar is a must in tank group
~~Conj > Necro~~       no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking
~~Illy > Coercer~~      almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all
All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts.
i fixed it a bit.        monk/bruiser     sk/pally   not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls)

Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much.

Allena · 03-09-2008, 01:45 PM

Its not one particular class, its the combination - speaking raiding. This thread is not about what classes are needed for pvp - please revisit the original posts.

Shu · 03-09-2008, 02:03 PM

Milambers@Nagafen wrote:

Shury@Nagafen wrote:
Milambers@Nagafen wrote:
Templar > Inquis     - this one is most important difference,   Templar is a must in tank group
~~Conj > Necro~~       no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking
~~Illy > Coercer~~      almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all
All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts.
i fixed it a bit.        monk/bruiser     sk/pally   not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls)
Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much.

w-t-f are you talking about? there is no solo pvp for those classes and never was. i was typing that for loosers who cry that factions cant raid as good as exileds

Allena · 03-09-2008, 02:08 PM

Bleh Shury is kinda stupid, we all know this - atleast if you hang around in 70-79 chat on Q side.

Norrsken · 03-09-2008, 04:40 PM

Shury@Nagafen wrote:

Milambers@Nagafen wrote:
Shury@Nagafen wrote:
Milambers@Nagafen wrote:
Templar > Inquis     - this one is most important difference,   Templar is a must in tank group
~~Conj > Necro~~       no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking
~~Illy > Coercer~~      almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all
All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts.
i fixed it a bit.        monk/bruiser     sk/pally   not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls)
Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much.
w-t-f are you talking about? there is no solo pvp for those classes and never was.      i was typing that for loosers who cry that factions cant raid as good as exileds

Are you refering to necros there?Cause t3-6 they shine in solo pvp.t7-8 they are broken. Or rather, the most obvious examp0le of the flaw in the balance in this game.

Roald · 03-09-2008, 06:11 PM

Shury@Nagafen wrote:

Milambers@Nagafen wrote:
Shury@Nagafen wrote:
Milambers@Nagafen wrote:
Templar > Inquis     - this one is most important difference,   Templar is a must in tank group
~~Conj > Necro~~       no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking
~~Illy > Coercer~~      almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all
All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts.
i fixed it a bit.        monk/bruiser     sk/pally   not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls)
Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much.
w-t-f are you talking about? there is no solo pvp for those classes and never was.      i was typing that for loosers who cry that factions cant raid as good as exileds

No solo PvP? lol

L · 03-09-2008, 07:01 PM

Exzile@Venekor wrote:

Once upon a time... pvp servers had two factions, a good and an evil. If you were a good class you were limited to Qeynos, with all that followed. Raiding was rough, not having certain classes, your guildmates enjoyed pvp to get both gear but also for the fun of it. Evil classes the same. Then Haven comes, a faction that can hold any good/evil class, and lo and behold if not a guild registrar shows up. So what consequences did this bring? Well all the sudden a faction was equiped with the combined power of all classes and surely enough high end raid guilds formed. The guilds grew stronger over time and dominated PVE contents with swift PVE server progression through raid tiers. Not surprisingly, these guilds ended up locking up any contested mob on the server in cooperation with each other. The arrogance of the exile guilds grew over time and even blocking out city guilds from entering instanced raid zones occur now.
So what does this mean then. Well now insanely overpowered mythical weapons are out - compared to anything else obtainable. This is entirely out of reach for city guilds for months to come. What does that do to PVP gameplay then. Well this once temporary exile faction pretty much will dominate anything that does not outnumber them vastly. Its unbalanced and pvp armor does not even out the game at all. It is exceedingly depressing to watch as exiles grow stronger and stronger and it is really close to a point where exiles are in god mode and only truly awful play on their side will render them beatable. Add in that many exiles post that token gaining rates are to fast for their taste for city factions and the ludicracy really comes out. It is time to close down the exile faction or open up all classes to the city factions. It is unbalanced and if people cant see that I am sure its due to their current existence in an exile guild. To SOE; would you risk loosing a few exile accounts to keep the rest of them or do you want to continue this line of making the game unbalanced and loose many city based accounts? I for one is running out of patience...
Exile guilds belong on a blue server, not on a PVP server, they never did and its time to fix this problem.
Probably most replies to this post will be from exile faction members, keep this in mind...

There are no Mythical epics on Venekor. Why are you complaining?

Exzile · 03-09-2008, 07:53 PM

LFG wrote:

There are no Mythical epics on Venekor. Why are you complaining?

I already posted I play on Nagafen, read thread ftw.

Odawnus Haste · 03-09-2008, 09:11 PM

Amatheon@Nagafen wrote:

Shury in terms of PVP Templar is much better than a Inquis, sanctuary is an enormous boon. Illusionists own Coercers pvp wise as well except for when the Coercers could exploit the pet charm during the first couple of months of RoK. Conjurors as well are better than Necromancers in pvp because of the ae difference. In pvp anything but solo on solo ae dps is the undisputed winner. Rangers are more useful than Assassins because assassins have to be right on top of the people to kill them making pretty much sure they are locked down atleast some of the time by a tank. A ranger can sit outside anyones range and plink away. The rest of the classes that have counterparts seem to be pretty well balanced with perhaps the exception of bruiser/monk since the bruiser seems to get nerfed every other patch.

To counter your post, just as a ranger can sit on the outside, he can also get mezzed/rooted/stunned out of healing/curing range and be completely useless for the rest of the fight. Also they are pretty much the glass cannons of scouts.

03-07-2008, 10:03 PM	#2
Oh General Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,516	I don't PvP in this game, so i want to get that out of the way first. Question why can't a good city guild recruite an evil city player? is that prohibited somehow? Assuming that it is (not sure how but i'm sure someone will clarify for me) then i can truely see the plight that you guys are in, and would have to agree that exile is really a bad thing for PvP servers. Although part of this could be mitigated by doing more PvE content, granted you might not have ALL of the class posibilities but there should be a good mix that you should win relatively speaking. __________________

03-07-2008, 10:12 PM	#3
Ze General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 203	Is it really that bad? I have to admit, I don't play that much anymore, but I was under the impression that exiles had an easier time raiding, but gave up plenty of things for it (pvp rewards, city faction and so forth). In other words, it seems to me like a well balanced tradeoff, allowing for different styles. After all, if exiling is so much better for raiding, and raiding is what you desire, why not exile? What I really find ridiculous is that exiling forces us to give up pvp benefits and to live in a place that feels like some junior programmer developed during a free Sunday afternoon during breaks in a WoW raid. But that is a whole different issue... Truth is, I don't know how bad is it. Is raiding without specific classes really that disadvantageous? In scouts I don't see it - nor with dps casters. Are healers the real problem? __________________ There is no Zerp

03-07-2008, 10:16 PM	#4
tanis147 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 71	Ohiv wrote: I don't PvP in this game, so i want to get that out of the way first. Question why can't a good city guild recruite an evil city player? is that prohibited somehow? Assuming that it is (not sure how but i'm sure someone will clarify for me) then i can truely see the plight that you guys are in, and would have to agree that exile is really a bad thing for PvP servers. Although part of this could be mitigated by doing more PvE content, granted you might not have ALL of the class posibilities but there should be a good mix that you should win relatively speaking. no you can not. it's good classes vs evil classes. the factions can not even talk in chat.

03-07-2008, 10:23 PM	#7
Roald Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,417	Ohiv wrote: I don't PvP in this game, so i want to get that out of the way first. Question why can't a good city guild recruite an evil city player? is that prohibited somehow? Assuming that it is (not sure how but i'm sure someone will clarify for me) then i can truely see the plight that you guys are in, and would have to agree that exile is really a bad thing for PvP servers. Although part of this could be mitigated by doing more PvE content, granted you might not have ALL of the class posibilities but there should be a good mix that you should win relatively speaking. Yea its prohibited, only slightly though __________________ Lickle Milambers Qtoon

03-07-2008, 11:32 PM	#10
Wildfury77 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 683	Csky wrote: the fix to exiles = make PVP gear have PVP bonuses for PVP only and make them the BEST weapons availiable for PVP since they were attained in PVP and let exiles raid till thier hearts content for thier PVE gear that was attained in PVE..who cares if they have the best gear for PVE when PVPers have the best gear for PVP?? how now brown cow? Agreed! Also, as i have said repeatedly , make Clerics and Rogues neutral classes available to both cities! That would significantly boost city raiding ability! (qeynos gets brigands+inquis & freeport swashie+templar).

03-07-2008, 08:52 PM	#1
Exzile Server: Venekor Guild: Exile Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	Once upon a time... pvp servers had two factions, a good and an evil. If you were a good class you were limited to Qeynos, with all that followed. Raiding was rough, not having certain classes, your guildmates enjoyed pvp to get both gear but also for the fun of it. Evil classes the same. Then Haven comes, a faction that can hold any good/evil class, and lo and behold if not a guild registrar shows up. So what consequences did this bring? Well all the sudden a faction was equiped with the combined power of all classes and surely enough high end raid guilds formed. The guilds grew stronger over time and dominated PVE contents with swift PVE server progression through raid tiers. Not surprisingly, these guilds ended up locking up any contested mob on the server in cooperation with each other. The arrogance of the exile guilds grew over time and even blocking out city guilds from entering instanced raid zones occur now. So what does this mean then. Well now insanely overpowered mythical weapons are out - compared to anything else obtainable. This is entirely out of reach for city guilds for months to come. What does that do to PVP gameplay then. Well this once temporary exile faction pretty much will dominate anything that does not outnumber them vastly. Its unbalanced and pvp armor does not even out the game at all. It is exceedingly depressing to watch as exiles grow stronger and stronger and it is really close to a point where exiles are in god mode and only truly awful play on their side will render them beatable. Add in that many exiles post that token gaining rates are to fast for their taste for city factions and the ludicracy really comes out. It is time to close down the exile faction or open up all classes to the city factions. It is unbalanced and if people cant see that I am sure its due to their current existence in an exile guild. To SOE; would you risk loosing a few exile accounts to keep the rest of them or do you want to continue this line of making the game unbalanced and loose many city based accounts? I for one is running out of patience... Exile guilds belong on a blue server, not on a PVP server, they never did and its time to fix this problem. Probably most replies to this post will be from exile faction members, keep this in mind...

03-07-2008, 10:18 PM	#5
yohann koldheart Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: harrisburg,PA Posts: 1,601	the lore of eq2 says freeport and qeynos are at war.. pvp servers follow that idea so you cant group,guild with the enemy. lots of raid content is easier to do with classes from both sides so exiles do have a advantage there. however the raid content is doable with city raids they just have to be put together differently. this isnt really a problem on venekor yet because the only exiled guild just exiled recently and isnt raiding that much more then the city raids. also just because you exile dont mean you have to only live in haven, when i was exiled i had a nice place in majdul , there is a quest for a call spell to take you there as well.

03-07-2008, 10:23 PM	#6
KatrinaDeath Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 690	What classes do you need that the other side has to offer? I'd really like to know.

03-07-2008, 10:28 PM	#8
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	the fix to exiles = make PVP gear have PVP bonuses for PVP only and make them the BEST weapons availiable for PVP since they were attained in PVP and let exiles raid till thier hearts content for thier PVE gear that was attained in PVE..who cares if they have the best gear for PVE when PVPers have the best gear for PVP?? how now brown cow?

03-07-2008, 10:58 PM	#9
Exzile Server: Venekor Guild: Exile Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	Just to clarify, some think that a mix of all classes isent an advantage for PVE raid contents. I dont wish to comment too much on this as it is obvious to 99% of the people that read this post that all classes are a definate requirement to defeat EQ2 content, be it T5 or avatars. Anyway, city guilds would eventually defeat T2 raid instances I have no doubt. I dont see city based guilds in VP for another 6 months though. Its not because we are stupid and horrible at playing our classes. Current progress from city factions are limited to Overking, from dedicated raid guilds - this has created a trend that more and more guilds exile to be able to keep up and get mythical weapons. Qeynos guilds cannot get Coercer, Inquisitor, Defiler, Brigand, Necromancer, Shadowknight, Bruiser. Freeport cannot get Illusionist, Templar, Mystic, Swashbuckler, Conjurer, Palladin, Monk. Its an unfair advantage to have a 3rd faction that can get it all, remove exile guild registrar, make haven good or evil, or give everyone the same tools. If the exiles want our subpar pvp gear theyre more than welcome, though I highly doubt it would be an upgrade - 50% of it is not for my char... Anyway, PVP against a VP geared exile with a mythical weapon is not my idea of PVP, I atleast would like to have a chance to win and not depend on the person being interrupted by something IRL. Its just not an even fight, Im not participating in that and SOE should even the field out before everyone leaves - other anticipated games are coming soon - heads up... PS I play on Nagafen now, the sig is kinda old :/

03-08-2008, 12:51 AM	#11
Sorffats Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 377	Grondak@Nagafen wrote: Csky wrote: the fix to exiles = make PVP gear have PVP bonuses for PVP only and make them the BEST weapons availiable for PVP since they were attained in PVP and let exiles raid till thier hearts content for thier PVE gear that was attained in PVE..who cares if they have the best gear for PVE when PVPers have the best gear for PVP?? how now brown cow? Agreed! Also, as i have said repeatedly " width="15" height="15" />, make Clerics and Rogues neutral classes available to both cities! That would significantly boost city raiding ability! (qeynos gets brigands+inquis & freeport swashie+templar). I say, forget stopping with just clerics and rogues being neutral. Make every single class available to either city alignment. To hell with lore. Lore is already broken because of exiled anyway. So a necro wants to play in Qeynos? Let 'em play in Qeynos. If we are talking lore...ogres, dark elves, trolls, iksar should not be allowed to betray at all because of their race anyway, but it is allowed. Why is race allowed and profession not allowed? So breaking on part of lore is ok but another isn't? Please, give me a break already. Give city factions access to all classes.

03-08-2008, 05:24 AM	#12
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	Naaa the lore is a good thing . theres other things that can be done like give the abilities that people claim are needed and buffs that stack to another class on each side, so it makes each side more effective at raiding without messing up the lore

03-08-2008, 03:34 PM	#13
Exzile Server: Venekor Guild: Exile Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	WTB comments from a developer... Some say that nothing will be done since some exile guilds have developers in them, I have no idea if thats true or just B/S. The lack of communication and attention to PVP servers is startling though. Its amazing that PVE comes before PVP on a PVP server...

03-08-2008, 04:37 PM	#14
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	its a PVE game with the added excitement of PVP.. dont ever think this is a PVP game because it isnt and never will be, the PVP is a bonus :p

03-08-2008, 09:24 PM	#15
Ol Server: Nagafen Guild: Elusive Rank: Recruit General Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 502	Swisha@Nagafen wrote: What classes do you need that the other side has to offer? I'd really like to know. Well for one sk apposed to paladin. sk is more dps, paladin is more heal. same with bruiser and monk. bruiser is more dps, monk is other things(such as stealth and group fd). ranger and assassin ranger can snipe you down easily, assassin has to come to you. and finally, coerecer and illusionist. coerecer can mezz incredibly strong pets, while illys get some lame counterpart. __________________ I see said the blind man...

03-08-2008, 09:27 PM	#16
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	not one class you mentioned has any gamebreaking differences

03-08-2008, 09:29 PM	#17
Norrsken Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,450	Olik@Nagafen wrote: Swisha@Nagafen wrote: What classes do you need that the other side has to offer? I'd really like to know. Well for one sk apposed to paladin. sk is more dps, paladin is more heal. same with bruiser and monk. bruiser is more dps, monk is other things(such as stealth and group fd). ranger and assassin ranger can snipe you down easily, assassin has to come to you. and finally, coerecer and illusionist. coerecer can mezz incredibly strong pets, while illys get some lame counterpart. Nitpicking here, but coercers charm pets. Not mez. __________________

03-08-2008, 09:46 PM	#18
Roald Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,417	Templar > Inquis Conj > Necro Illy > Coercer All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts. __________________ Lickle Milambers Qtoon

03-08-2008, 10:05 PM	#19
Shu Server: Nagafen Guild: Crusaders Rank: Defender General Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 43	Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Templar > Inquis - this one is most important difference, Templar is a must in tank group ~~Conj > Necro~~ no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking ~~Illy > Coercer~~ almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts. i fixed it a bit. monk/bruiser sk/pally not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls)

03-08-2008, 10:25 PM	#20
KaiZas Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	And what exactly in the lore says the exile faction cannot exist? It's lore folks. (Badly) written by some dev. If it's in there now, it's part of the lore.Plus, it's an excellent way of putting in free for all pvp mechanics without having to actually implement a free for all server. Thus, with the exile faction, SOE caters to another pvp crowd. Now, I for one have given up on T8 pvp altogether. It feels to me like SOE went completely overboard with T8, they have jumped the shark. By adding another layer of uberness to most classes, they've overpowered the game in a way that can't be balanced anymore. The gear is ridiculous, the damage flying around equals the bizzare score system of a pinball machine. There's no fun to be had with the micro-fights we're given today. Most folk seem to gravitate towards the 5-second-fight class, making the problem even worse. When I look at the mythical weapons, I cringe. Luckily, we still have the reasonable lower tiers, where there's a challenge to be had by skill, not just godly powers. Running around FFA in those tiers is fun and engaging. There's no reason to take that out of the game. I find it a bit weird though... the game is clearly pve based. There's oodles more servers whitout pvp then there are with. Yet we get these weird lore-based restrictions of good and evil. Why can the two factions get along so well on the regular servers? Why are they allowed to intermingle, have guilds all around Norrath with players of any allignment? The true fight, the one some writer conjured up during creation of the game, is only being fought on the most neglected servers of them all. Weird. Factions I get. No factions at war, no pvp. As stated before, let all classes be neutral. What exactly is the point of denying one faction access to a class? Does it have to do with pvp balance? Highly unlikely, as they throw Haven in the mix, being able to pvp with every class available. There is absolutely no reason to restrict only the 3 pvp servers like this if you're just going to let the other 50 servers do their thing as they see fit.Lift the restrictions I say. Want a Qeynosian Shadowknight? Go ahead, roll one, betray him or her and there you are. Now what is so horrible about having an evil profession running around in Qeynos? The NPC's in Q will be complete jerks to you anyway, might as well keep your old profession. And it's not like Mss Bayle has never hired an assasin or two, I'm sure./rant off.

03-08-2008, 11:07 PM	#21
Amatheon Server: Nagafen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	Shury in terms of PVP Templar is much better than a Inquis, sanctuary is an enormous boon. Illusionists own Coercers pvp wise as well except for when the Coercers could exploit the pet charm during the first couple of months of RoK. Conjurors as well are better than Necromancers in pvp because of the ae difference. In pvp anything but solo on solo ae dps is the undisputed winner. Rangers are more useful than Assassins because assassins have to be right on top of the people to kill them making pretty much sure they are locked down atleast some of the time by a tank. A ranger can sit outside anyones range and plink away. The rest of the classes that have counterparts seem to be pretty well balanced with perhaps the exception of bruiser/monk since the bruiser seems to get nerfed every other patch.

03-09-2008, 08:20 AM	#22
Roald Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,417	Shury@Nagafen wrote: Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Templar > Inquis - this one is most important difference, Templar is a must in tank group ~~Conj > Necro~~ no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking ~~Illy > Coercer~~ almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts. i fixed it a bit. monk/bruiser sk/pally not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls) Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much. __________________ Lickle Milambers Qtoon

03-09-2008, 01:45 PM	#23
Allena Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4	Its not one particular class, its the combination - speaking raiding. This thread is not about what classes are needed for pvp - please revisit the original posts.

03-09-2008, 02:03 PM	#24
Shu Server: Nagafen Guild: Crusaders Rank: Defender General Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 43	Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Shury@Nagafen wrote: Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Templar > Inquis - this one is most important difference, Templar is a must in tank group ~~Conj > Necro~~ no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking ~~Illy > Coercer~~ almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts. i fixed it a bit. monk/bruiser sk/pally not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls) Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much. w-t-f are you talking about? there is no solo pvp for those classes and never was. i was typing that for loosers who cry that factions cant raid as good as exileds

03-09-2008, 02:08 PM	#25
Allena Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4	Bleh Shury is kinda stupid, we all know this - atleast if you hang around in 70-79 chat on Q side.

03-09-2008, 04:40 PM	#26
Norrsken Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,450	Shury@Nagafen wrote: Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Shury@Nagafen wrote: Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Templar > Inquis - this one is most important difference, Templar is a must in tank group ~~Conj > Necro~~ no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking ~~Illy > Coercer~~ almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts. i fixed it a bit. monk/bruiser sk/pally not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls) Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much. w-t-f are you talking about? there is no solo pvp for those classes and never was. i was typing that for loosers who cry that factions cant raid as good as exileds Are you refering to necros there?Cause t3-6 they shine in solo pvp.t7-8 they are broken. Or rather, the most obvious examp0le of the flaw in the balance in this game. __________________

03-09-2008, 06:11 PM	#27
Roald Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,417	Shury@Nagafen wrote: Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Shury@Nagafen wrote: Milambers@Nagafen wrote: Templar > Inquis - this one is most important difference, Templar is a must in tank group ~~Conj > Necro~~ no difference really, necro is better on single target but who cares, nothing ground breaking ~~Illy > Coercer~~ almost identical, both can mezz stuff. slightly higher illu dps not essential for raid at all All the other evil/good only classes are pretty much balanced for PvP with their counterparts. i fixed it a bit. monk/bruiser sk/pally not really needed in any raid (unless something changed since EoF style raids - pally was needed in one single encounter in Emerald halls) Please learn the classes before you do something like this. Conjurers are easily better than necros in solo PvP. Illys have more dps than coercers, more ultility and better buffs. Head over the ot the coercer forums. Pretty much the other thing coercers can do better than illys is buff healing. When you're solo PvPing...this doesn't help that much. w-t-f are you talking about? there is no solo pvp for those classes and never was. i was typing that for loosers who cry that factions cant raid as good as exileds No solo PvP? lol __________________ Lickle Milambers Qtoon

03-09-2008, 07:01 PM	#28
L General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 91	Exzile@Venekor wrote: Once upon a time... pvp servers had two factions, a good and an evil. If you were a good class you were limited to Qeynos, with all that followed. Raiding was rough, not having certain classes, your guildmates enjoyed pvp to get both gear but also for the fun of it. Evil classes the same. Then Haven comes, a faction that can hold any good/evil class, and lo and behold if not a guild registrar shows up. So what consequences did this bring? Well all the sudden a faction was equiped with the combined power of all classes and surely enough high end raid guilds formed. The guilds grew stronger over time and dominated PVE contents with swift PVE server progression through raid tiers. Not surprisingly, these guilds ended up locking up any contested mob on the server in cooperation with each other. The arrogance of the exile guilds grew over time and even blocking out city guilds from entering instanced raid zones occur now. So what does this mean then. Well now insanely overpowered mythical weapons are out - compared to anything else obtainable. This is entirely out of reach for city guilds for months to come. What does that do to PVP gameplay then. Well this once temporary exile faction pretty much will dominate anything that does not outnumber them vastly. Its unbalanced and pvp armor does not even out the game at all. It is exceedingly depressing to watch as exiles grow stronger and stronger and it is really close to a point where exiles are in god mode and only truly awful play on their side will render them beatable. Add in that many exiles post that token gaining rates are to fast for their taste for city factions and the ludicracy really comes out. It is time to close down the exile faction or open up all classes to the city factions. It is unbalanced and if people cant see that I am sure its due to their current existence in an exile guild. To SOE; would you risk loosing a few exile accounts to keep the rest of them or do you want to continue this line of making the game unbalanced and loose many city based accounts? I for one is running out of patience... Exile guilds belong on a blue server, not on a PVP server, they never did and its time to fix this problem. Probably most replies to this post will be from exile faction members, keep this in mind... There are no Mythical epics on Venekor. Why are you complaining? __________________ LFG EQ2Flames.com [Removed for Content], 80 Defiler/80 Sage/400 Tinker, Onyx, Nagafen Elleffgee, 80 SK/80 Alchemist/400 Tinker, Nagafen

03-09-2008, 07:53 PM	#29
Exzile Server: Venekor Guild: Exile Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	LFG wrote: There are no Mythical epics on Venekor. Why are you complaining? I already posted I play on Nagafen, read thread ftw.

03-09-2008, 09:11 PM	#30
Odawnus Haste Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 317	Amatheon@Nagafen wrote: Shury in terms of PVP Templar is much better than a Inquis, sanctuary is an enormous boon. Illusionists own Coercers pvp wise as well except for when the Coercers could exploit the pet charm during the first couple of months of RoK. Conjurors as well are better than Necromancers in pvp because of the ae difference. In pvp anything but solo on solo ae dps is the undisputed winner. Rangers are more useful than Assassins because assassins have to be right on top of the people to kill them making pretty much sure they are locked down atleast some of the time by a tank. A ranger can sit outside anyones range and plink away. The rest of the classes that have counterparts seem to be pretty well balanced with perhaps the exception of bruiser/monk since the bruiser seems to get nerfed every other patch. To counter your post, just as a ranger can sit on the outside, he can also get mezzed/rooted/stunned out of healing/curing range and be completely useless for the rest of the fight. Also they are pretty much the glass cannons of scouts.