Seriously, why are these changes being made now?

Ramius613 · 02-29-2008, 02:01 AM

I am becoming more and more frustrated with SOE and their tactic of "we must change everything that people are happy with, and not fix the things that are broken." This latest round of changes is the latest proof of this. Just as more casual guilds are getting some success in t1 and even t2 zones, with viable and proven strategies, they have to go and change it up. Thus separating the hardcore from the casual even further because guess what, the hardcore guilds already have most of the gear out of these zones, and thus have the ability to clear them easier, not to mention being able to lock down the new contested mobs (which I thought the plan was to get away from them, since <1% of 1% of the population got to kill them.) Mind you, I have nothing against hardcore raiders, and only wished I had the time that they did to play the game.

Now since this is the feedback forum for testing I will give some feedback:

Since I am a monk, the first 2 nerfs(and they are nerfs) have to deal with Peel and Strikethrough. First what honestly is wrong with locking down a mob for a min and a half? With the changes being made, this makes this ability useful only if the MT goes down, and the monk uses it to hold the mob in check with Tsunami until the healers can get the Tank back up. I suggest, along with other monks in other threads, that the duration be changed to 20sec, and drop the recast to 1 min 30sec. (I know this won't happen since Aeralik has essentially said that the skill now is fine and won't be changed at all.)

Secondly, with Strikethrough, this essentially takes all of the teeth out of our Mythical weapon. I am paraphasing other people here since I don't have the weapon, and am unable to test it on Test atm. Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs. Since monks are rarely tanks, especially in higher tiered zones, this makes having the ability given by this weapon moot, since to take advantage of it we would have to stand in front of the mob with the tank, which is stupid and fatal. The more popular suggestion that I have seen floating around would be to lower the percentage to about 25%.

As one moderator on these boards said, "People are generally resistant to change." And they are correct, however, the thing about change is that there is supposed to be some benefit in making the change. The benefits of these change has not been communicated, nor will I ever expect it to be. SOE will just keep on making changes, going forward, and not look back to see if they missed anything (ie Brawler STR line, and T8 arrows, etc).

That is all for now.

Poison-X · 02-29-2008, 09:37 AM

GAMEPLAY * Strikethrough will no longer work with a successful dodge

===========================================

Have you ever seen a mob dodge? maybe in VP or something (haven't been there) but really its only a change for pvp servers and pve /duels

MOBS DON'T DODGE STOP CRYING FOR NO REASON

--

"Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs."

?? ?? You do know 360 degrees is a full circle why would it work if your standing in front of them?????????

MadBarman · 02-29-2008, 10:52 AM

Strikethrough only really effects fighting orange con mobs as it is currently on live. Monks don't have issues hitting anything thats yellow con or below.The idea that strikethourgh would only work if you are in front of a mob is because from behind you can hit, miss or they dodge. Which means strikethrough will never work as it only works on a parry, riposte, block or deflect (on test).If this change is primarily for pvp then they can keep it only on the pvp servers. We were promised as a community that changes to the pvp game would not effect the pve game.But it's not a pvp change, its a nerf of monks because we were able to do equal or better dps than scouts on orange con raid mobs. The complete removal of strikethrough (which is basically what this change is) is over the top as usual.

EQ2Luv · 02-29-2008, 02:33 PM

Poisonx@Nagafen wrote:

GAMEPLAY * Strikethrough will no longer work with a successful dodge
===========================================
Have you ever seen a mob dodge? maybe in VP or something (haven't been there) but really its only a change for pvp servers and pve /duels
MOBS DON'T DODGE STOP CRYING FOR NO REASON
--
"Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs."
?? ?? You do know 360 degrees is a full circle why would it work if your standing in front of them?????????

Not to be rude sir but your post is completely incorrect. I point this out not to be a flamer but simply because I would not want others to be misinformed, and the point of the OP missed. Dodge is the mechanic responsible when you see "miss", which comes from base avoidance - defense and agility. IE you try to strike MobX but you miss. This is indeed an issue in PVE, since this is the primary form of mob avoidance - the only form when attacking from behind. Since this is the only avoidance when attacking from behind, the new strikethrough ability does nothing when attacking from behind because it does not affect dodges. Thus, it only works in front of the mob , because that is the only position where you will encounter parries, ripostes, and blocks on non-brawler mobs. Since brawler primary role on high end raids is to DPS (behind the mob) , this new strikethrough does very little for monks who raid high end, which are exactly the monks that will be using this mythical weapon. Moreover, monks need a dps boost on orange mobs because they rely on autoattack for their DPS even more than bruisers.

phoenixshard · 02-29-2008, 03:14 PM

How does one lock down a contested mob so that it is unable to be pulled by another group without engaging it first?

Calogrenant · 02-29-2008, 03:47 PM

By locking down the mob, the OP means timing the last death, and being the first one there on repop, and thus effectively locking everyone else outta it.

Poison-X · 02-29-2008, 11:02 PM

EQ2Luv wrote:

Poisonx@Nagafen wrote:
GAMEPLAY * Strikethrough will no longer work with a successful dodge
===========================================
Have you ever seen a mob dodge? maybe in VP or something (haven't been there) but really its only a change for pvp servers and pve /duels
MOBS DON'T DODGE STOP CRYING FOR NO REASON
--
"Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs."
?? ?? You do know 360 degrees is a full circle why would it work if your standing in front of them?????????
Not to be rude sir but your post is completely incorrect. I point this out not to be a flamer but simply because I would not want others to be misinformed, and the point of the OP missed. Dodge is the mechanic responsible when you see "miss", which comes from base avoidance - defense and agility. IE you try to strike MobX but you miss. This is indeed an issue in PVE, since this is the primary form of mob avoidance - the only form when attacking from behind. Since this is the only avoidance when attacking from behind, the new strikethrough ability does nothing when attacking from behind because it does not affect dodges. Thus, it only works in front of the mob , because that is the only position where you will encounter parries, ripostes, and blocks on non-brawler mobs. Since brawler primary role on high end raids is to DPS (behind the mob) , this new strikethrough does very little for monks who raid high end, which are exactly the monks that will be using this mythical weapon. Moreover, monks need a dps boost on orange mobs because they rely on autoattack for their DPS even more than bruisers.

Dodge is dodge it clearly states DODGE in logs when it happens

why would Miss be dodge?

-Arctura- · 02-29-2008, 11:35 PM

Ramius613 wrote:

I am becoming more and more frustrated with SOE and their tactic of "we must change everything that people are happy with, and not fix the things that are broken."

(( but the whole reason for the changes is to satisfy peoples complaints on things that are broken. One persons broken content is another person's happy-feature.Nerfs only exist because the forums exist.Without feedback, good or bad, on various gameplay issues, the nerfs would just simply not happen.

EQ2Luv · 03-01-2008, 01:35 AM

Poisonx@Nagafen wrote:

Dodge is dodge it clearly states DODGE in logs when it happens
why would Miss be dodge?

This is from game udpate 29 notes. " - Dodge Check: (Everyone) Base chance is determined by type of armor worn. Chance increases with additional Defense Skill and Agility. The chance to dodge an incoming attack is modified by level and offense skill of the mob you are fighting."When a mob attacks me, I either parry, riposte, or deflect, or the mob "misses". I do not "dodge", but the misses come from the "dodge check". Misses from attacking a mob also come from dodge checks. There is no "miss" check, it simply is how they word a successful dodge. When they say it does not work on dodges, they mean that you can still "miss" from the "dodge" check.

mr23sgte · 03-01-2008, 05:18 PM

I copied to pvp test --the new peel just plain lousy. It needs to be improved, drop the hate positions gain and make the lock a true 30 seconds IMO so we can still use our stun stance!

02-29-2008, 02:01 AM	#1
Ramius613 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 144	I am becoming more and more frustrated with SOE and their tactic of "we must change everything that people are happy with, and not fix the things that are broken." This latest round of changes is the latest proof of this. Just as more casual guilds are getting some success in t1 and even t2 zones, with viable and proven strategies, they have to go and change it up. Thus separating the hardcore from the casual even further because guess what, the hardcore guilds already have most of the gear out of these zones, and thus have the ability to clear them easier, not to mention being able to lock down the new contested mobs (which I thought the plan was to get away from them, since <1% of 1% of the population got to kill them.) Mind you, I have nothing against hardcore raiders, and only wished I had the time that they did to play the game. Now since this is the feedback forum for testing I will give some feedback: Since I am a monk, the first 2 nerfs(and they are nerfs) have to deal with Peel and Strikethrough. First what honestly is wrong with locking down a mob for a min and a half? With the changes being made, this makes this ability useful only if the MT goes down, and the monk uses it to hold the mob in check with Tsunami until the healers can get the Tank back up. I suggest, along with other monks in other threads, that the duration be changed to 20sec, and drop the recast to 1 min 30sec. (I know this won't happen since Aeralik has essentially said that the skill now is fine and won't be changed at all.) Secondly, with Strikethrough, this essentially takes all of the teeth out of our Mythical weapon. I am paraphasing other people here since I don't have the weapon, and am unable to test it on Test atm. Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs. Since monks are rarely tanks, especially in higher tiered zones, this makes having the ability given by this weapon moot, since to take advantage of it we would have to stand in front of the mob with the tank, which is stupid and fatal. The more popular suggestion that I have seen floating around would be to lower the percentage to about 25%. As one moderator on these boards said, "People are generally resistant to change." And they are correct, however, the thing about change is that there is supposed to be some benefit in making the change. The benefits of these change has not been communicated, nor will I ever expect it to be. SOE will just keep on making changes, going forward, and not look back to see if they missed anything (ie Brawler STR line, and T8 arrows, etc). That is all for now. __________________

02-29-2008, 02:33 PM	#4
EQ2Luv Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 217	Poisonx@Nagafen wrote: GAMEPLAY * Strikethrough will no longer work with a successful dodge =========================================== Have you ever seen a mob dodge? maybe in VP or something (haven't been there) but really its only a change for pvp servers and pve /duels MOBS DON'T DODGE STOP CRYING FOR NO REASON -- "Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs." ?? ?? You do know 360 degrees is a full circle why would it work if your standing in front of them????????? Not to be rude sir but your post is completely incorrect. I point this out not to be a flamer but simply because I would not want others to be misinformed, and the point of the OP missed. Dodge is the mechanic responsible when you see "miss", which comes from base avoidance - defense and agility. IE you try to strike MobX but you miss. This is indeed an issue in PVE, since this is the primary form of mob avoidance - the only form when attacking from behind. Since this is the only avoidance when attacking from behind, the new strikethrough ability does nothing when attacking from behind because it does not affect dodges. Thus, it only works in front of the mob , because that is the only position where you will encounter parries, ripostes, and blocks on non-brawler mobs. Since brawler primary role on high end raids is to DPS (behind the mob) , this new strikethrough does very little for monks who raid high end, which are exactly the monks that will be using this mythical weapon. Moreover, monks need a dps boost on orange mobs because they rely on autoattack for their DPS even more than bruisers.

02-29-2008, 11:02 PM	#7
Poison-X Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 29	EQ2Luv wrote: Poisonx@Nagafen wrote: GAMEPLAY * Strikethrough will no longer work with a successful dodge =========================================== Have you ever seen a mob dodge? maybe in VP or something (haven't been there) but really its only a change for pvp servers and pve /duels MOBS DON'T DODGE STOP CRYING FOR NO REASON -- "Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs." ?? ?? You do know 360 degrees is a full circle why would it work if your standing in front of them????????? Not to be rude sir but your post is completely incorrect. I point this out not to be a flamer but simply because I would not want others to be misinformed, and the point of the OP missed. Dodge is the mechanic responsible when you see "miss", which comes from base avoidance - defense and agility. IE you try to strike MobX but you miss. This is indeed an issue in PVE, since this is the primary form of mob avoidance - the only form when attacking from behind. Since this is the only avoidance when attacking from behind, the new strikethrough ability does nothing when attacking from behind because it does not affect dodges. Thus, it only works in front of the mob , because that is the only position where you will encounter parries, ripostes, and blocks on non-brawler mobs. Since brawler primary role on high end raids is to DPS (behind the mob) , this new strikethrough does very little for monks who raid high end, which are exactly the monks that will be using this mythical weapon. Moreover, monks need a dps boost on orange mobs because they rely on autoattack for their DPS even more than bruisers. Dodge is dodge it clearly states DODGE in logs when it happens why would Miss be dodge?

02-29-2008, 11:35 PM	#8
-Arctura- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,589	Ramius613 wrote: I am becoming more and more frustrated with SOE and their tactic of "we must change everything that people are happy with, and not fix the things that are broken." (( but the whole reason for the changes is to satisfy peoples complaints on things that are broken. One persons broken content is another person's happy-feature.Nerfs only exist because the forums exist.Without feedback, good or bad, on various gameplay issues, the nerfs would just simply not happen.

03-01-2008, 01:35 AM	#9
EQ2Luv Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 217	Poisonx@Nagafen wrote: Dodge is dodge it clearly states DODGE in logs when it happens why would Miss be dodge? This is from game udpate 29 notes. " - Dodge Check: (Everyone) Base chance is determined by type of armor worn. Chance increases with additional Defense Skill and Agility. The chance to dodge an incoming attack is modified by level and offense skill of the mob you are fighting."When a mob attacks me, I either parry, riposte, or deflect, or the mob "misses". I do not "dodge", but the misses come from the "dodge check". Misses from attacking a mob also come from dodge checks. There is no "miss" check, it simply is how they word a successful dodge. When they say it does not work on dodges, they mean that you can still "miss" from the "dodge" check.

02-29-2008, 09:37 AM	#2
Poison-X Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 29	GAMEPLAY * Strikethrough will no longer work with a successful dodge =========================================== Have you ever seen a mob dodge? maybe in VP or something (haven't been there) but really its only a change for pvp servers and pve /duels MOBS DON'T DODGE STOP CRYING FOR NO REASON -- "Dodge is the only ability that non brawler mobs have that is 360 degrees, which means that this ability will only work if we are in front of said mobs." ?? ?? You do know 360 degrees is a full circle why would it work if your standing in front of them?????????

02-29-2008, 10:52 AM	#3
MadBarman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 242	Strikethrough only really effects fighting orange con mobs as it is currently on live. Monks don't have issues hitting anything thats yellow con or below.The idea that strikethourgh would only work if you are in front of a mob is because from behind you can hit, miss or they dodge. Which means strikethrough will never work as it only works on a parry, riposte, block or deflect (on test).If this change is primarily for pvp then they can keep it only on the pvp servers. We were promised as a community that changes to the pvp game would not effect the pve game.But it's not a pvp change, its a nerf of monks because we were able to do equal or better dps than scouts on orange con raid mobs. The complete removal of strikethrough (which is basically what this change is) is over the top as usual.

02-29-2008, 03:14 PM	#5
phoenixshard Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 403	How does one lock down a contested mob so that it is unable to be pulled by another group without engaging it first?

02-29-2008, 03:47 PM	#6
Calogrenant Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 31	By locking down the mob, the OP means timing the last death, and being the first one there on repop, and thus effectively locking everyone else outta it.

03-01-2008, 05:18 PM	#10
mr23sgte Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 450	I copied to pvp test --the new peel just plain lousy. It needs to be improved, drop the hate positions gain and make the lock a true 30 seconds IMO so we can still use our stun stance!