Collectables Loot Lotto

[Valdaglerion]

After much consideration and review of previous threads I do think this would be a good idea -Add normal group looting rules to shiny and tome collection pieces. Currently body and chest dropped tome pages have this but ground spawns do not. Some of the higher level zones are seeing issues with these items which could easily be solved by adding them to loot. Someone collects a ground spawn and is in a group the loot window should pop up and those in the proximity have the opportunity to roll or decline it. No, it wont solve all the problems caused by some Ninja looters but it would assist is providing some better mechanisms for dealing with them while grouped or raid. We usually assign one person in Unrest to gather the items and we roll at the end - it would be so much simpler if I could just grab them and have people lotto them immediately. As is, I link them so people can see whether they need them or not, then rolls ensue.Does anyone else have additional methods they find easier or useful in absence of the collection lotto at this time?

[UlteriorModem]

Valdaglerion wrote:

After much consideration and review of previous threads I do think this would be a good idea -Add normal group looting rules to shiny and tome collection pieces. Currently body and chest dropped tome pages have this but ground spawns do not. Some of the higher level zones are seeing issues with these items which could easily be solved by adding them to loot. Someone collects a ground spawn and is in a group the loot window should pop up and those in the proximity have the opportunity to roll or decline it. No, it wont solve all the problems caused by some Ninja looters but it would assist is providing some better mechanisms for dealing with them while grouped or raid. We usually assign one person in Unrest to gather the items and we roll at the end - it would be so much simpler if I could just grab them and have people lotto them immediately. As is, I link them so people can see whether they need them or not, then rolls ensue.Does anyone else have additional methods they find easier or useful in absence of the collection lotto at this time?

Cant the person that found the shiney just ask "Hey look what I found ! Anybody need it ? I already have one".

[Valdaglerion]

UlteriorModem wrote:

Valdaglerion wrote:

[SNIP] As is, I link them so people can see whether they need them or not, then rolls ensue.Does anyone else have additional methods they find easier or useful in absence of the collection lotto at this time?

Cant the person that found the shiney just ask "Hey look what I found ! Anybody need it ? I already have one".

Yep, pretty much what I said to begin with. The problems really start in pickup groups (sure, I guess you could always say, well then dont do pickup groups etc but if there is an easy mechanic to implement why not use it?).

[Gladiia]

I would love to see a shiny lotto added.  I try to do it the way the OP does, but sometimes it just doesn't work for various reasons.

[cyclonus11]

Tank always gets the shiny, because he/she is always in front.

[Kendricke]

Am I the only old Everquest veteran here who still uses "alpha" as a system?  It's just like gemstones in old Sebillis.  Cleric gets the first gem and you run "alpha" from there.

We enter Unrest and see a "?".  I ask the group to roll.  Whoever rolls high loots the first "?".  If it's a trap, he or she gets the next "?" (repeat till actual award looted).  Once he or she gets a collectible, we simply use that group member's name as the starting point for an alphabetical list and keep going from there.

[Nogger]

Gladiia@The Bazaar wrote:

I would love to see a shiny lotto added.  I try to do it the way the OP does, but sometimes it just doesn't work for various reasons.

Ditto. it seems like every PUG (Pick up group) has one person who makes a beeline for the shiny, even during a fight. Adding it to the loot rolls would be fairest all the way around.Until it's added to rolling (If it ever is) linking it to chat works best when you are with guildies or folks you normally play with.

[Mighty Melvor]

Nyra@Unrest wrote:

Tank always gets the shiny, because he/she is always in front.

pft. Are you serious?  Tanks are almost always last.  If they run out to get the shiney, all the mobs stop beating on them.  It's the support classes that tend to get them more often than not!

[Mighty Melvor]

Valdaglerion wrote:

After much consideration and review of previous threads I do think this would be a good idea -Add normal group looting rules to shiny and tome collection pieces. Currently body and chest dropped tome pages have this but ground spawns do not. Some of the higher level zones are seeing issues with these items which could easily be solved by adding them to loot. Someone collects a ground spawn and is in a group the loot window should pop up and those in the proximity have the opportunity to roll or decline it. No, it wont solve all the problems caused by some Ninja looters but it would assist is providing some better mechanisms for dealing with them while grouped or raid. We usually assign one person in Unrest to gather the items and we roll at the end - it would be so much simpler if I could just grab them and have people lotto them immediately. As is, I link them so people can see whether they need them or not, then rolls ensue.Does anyone else have additional methods they find easier or useful in absence of the collection lotto at this time?

I wouldn't like a lotto for shineys myself.  Reason is, as you've stated in other responses, are PUGs.  Currently there is no way for anyone to tell who needs what item.  Sure, if I loot a chest and find an adept I, I KNOW who may or may not need it.  In PUGs, people will just be greedy and always click LOOT.  I know I would.  Also, alot of people hate gathering the ? cause they feel it wastes their time.  But now the shiney ninjas will be doing all the work gathering for them and all they have to do it click LOOT?  Nah.  Leave it the way it is.

On a side note.  I wouldn't mind seeing the NO-TRADE collectables from body drops/chests take on a smart-loot system.  People that have a NO-TRADE collectable already in their collection(s) would not get the option to loot the NO-TRADE item.  I've had people LOOT a NO-TRADE item more than once only to find that they already had the collectable.  That is very annoying at best...  They've already put this smart-loot in for NO-TRADE quest starters, would be nice to see it apply to collectables as well.

[cyclonus11]

"

Tank always gets the shiny, because he/she is always in front.

pft. Are you serious?  Tanks are almost always last.  If they run out to get the shiney, all the mobs stop beating on them.  It's the support classes that tend to get them more often than not!"Not from what I've seen. The shinies I've come across are more often than not in an area where there are no mobs, and they wander right over to it & collect...Anyways, I agree with the OP. Need a lotto.

[Josgar]

EWWWW NO!If I walk out into a billion mobs in hopes of getting a shiny... it should NOT go to someone else.

[Encantador]

I would like to see this too. Fed up of being the 'good' group member fighting until all is safe only to see someone ignore the fight and click on the shiny.

 Oh and in general I agree tanks get the shiny.

[liveja]

Valdaglerion wrote:

Does anyone else have additional methods they find easier or useful in absence of the collection lotto at this time?

Yea: I group with my friends, & we talk to each other.

[Toy Dragon]

Encantador wrote:

I would like to see this too. Fed up of being the 'good' group member fighting until all is safe only to see someone ignore the fight and click on the shiny.

 Oh and in general I agree tanks get the shiny.

Ditto everything except the last statement.  As a tank, the fun part is watching some idiot run out in front of me after a shiny.  I'll even let the healer die if they're that dumb.  And of course while I'm busy duoing the fight with a healer (if I'm lucky) the rest of the group is waiting at the shiny to see who managed to click it first.

[DragonMaster2385]

I absolutley love this idea.  I hope a dev reads this.

[Cadori Seraphim]

I also think this is a good idea.

[netglen]

I would like to see an option to disable looting collectibles while on a team. I've seen too many team deaths from some guy going off and bringing back aggro from collecting a shiny.

[Guy De Alsace]

Make all shinies into possible traps a la Unrest

[gi]

Yep an optional Lotto for shiney loot would be a good thing in my opinion.

[Galeden]

Mighty Melvor wrote:

I wouldn't like a lotto for shineys myself.  Reason is, as you've stated in other responses, are PUGs.  Currently there is no way for anyone to tell who needs what item.  Sure, if I loot a chest and find an adept I, I KNOW who may or may not need it.  In PUGs, people will just be greedy and always click LOOT.  I know I would.  Also, alot of people hate gathering the ? cause they feel it wastes their time.  But now the shiney ninjas will be doing all the work gathering for them and all they have to do it click LOOT?  Nah.  Leave it the way it is.

On a side note.  I wouldn't mind seeing the NO-TRADE collectables from body drops/chests take on a smart-loot system.  People that have a NO-TRADE collectable already in their collection(s) would not get the option to loot the NO-TRADE item.  I've had people LOOT a NO-TRADE item more than once only to find that they already had the collectable.  That is very annoying at best...  They've already put this smart-loot in for NO-TRADE quest starters, would be nice to see it apply to collectables as well.

How is this different then item lotto? People can and will sometimes roll on everything needed or not, at least this gives everyone a chance to win it rather then whoever is the shiny grabber who sneaks to each shiny during a battle and grabs it, not letting anyone else have a chance?  And so what if one person is doing the gathering work, is it fair to anyone in the group that a person keeps stepping out of a fight to grab a shiny, and be guarenteed the reward, not to mention the adds that are often brought back to the group to fight so said ninja could get his shiny, and get the reward himself while his group is forced to fight the add that resulted.

 BTW I am definatly for a group option for lottoing shinies

[Gorpier]

UlteriorModem wrote:

Valdaglerion wrote:

After much consideration and review of previous threads I do think this would be a good idea -Add normal group looting rules to shiny and tome collection pieces. Currently body and chest dropped tome pages have this but ground spawns do not. Some of the higher level zones are seeing issues with these items which could easily be solved by adding them to loot. Someone collects a ground spawn and is in a group the loot window should pop up and those in the proximity have the opportunity to roll or decline it. No, it wont solve all the problems caused by some Ninja looters but it would assist is providing some better mechanisms for dealing with them while grouped or raid. We usually assign one person in Unrest to gather the items and we roll at the end - it would be so much simpler if I could just grab them and have people lotto them immediately. As is, I link them so people can see whether they need them or not, then rolls ensue.Does anyone else have additional methods they find easier or useful in absence of the collection lotto at this time?

Cant the person that found the shiney just ask "Hey look what I found ! Anybody need it ? I already have one".

*shrugs*  That is what most of the groups I ever have do.  Doesn't really seem to be an issue for us.  Someone finds it, posts it to group chat and everyone /random 's.

[Youngone31]

I think that colectables should be on a smart loot lotto. If a person has the item, they should not be able to lotto for it. That would take care of all the greedy people that lie just to get an item to sell. I mean it sad you can not trust everyone in a pug but that is the way the world works.

[Valdaglerion]

When I said PUG's are the biggest problem area for this my intent was to express you run into more shiny ninjas in PUGs who are only there for the shinies, especially in places like Kaladim, Mistmoore Catacombs and Castle, and Unrest. They tend to create a lot of adds for the groups to fight off and in the end they got the shiny they would otherwise of never gotten solo.

Groups of friends and usually with guildmates you tend to have more of an honor system.

Does this mean you should never get involved in a pickup group or raid? Unfortunately, many players are shying away from them and this being only 1 of several reasons. A simple lotto implementation would at least ensure that everyone in the group has the option to reap the reward of the group.

I do agree that it could be an option in the group options for collectables: Leader Only / Lotto / Free for all / None (I only included this last item because with zones like Unrest, shiny ninjas can wipe the group).

Adding No-Trade collectables to smart loot would be interesting concept as well. I would still like to see what it is we cant loot though, there are often times I find those and do a shout "Anyone looking for [TOME] name - pst, I have one rotting I dont need and its No-trade.". Inevitably I get a tell from someone and tell them where the chest or body is so they can loot it. Without knowing what is there, I cant do that any longer.

[KBern]

I dont see any reason why they cannot do it, but it would have to be optional.  I find the alpha rotation more fair in groups overall then banking on the "random" roll.

The only thing I point out with this is ?'s are a harvest, they are not looted items, so there may be some programming mechanic that makes this difficult.

[Valdaglerion]

Yes, I have wondered about the harvest item vs looted as well. Sure would be nice if a dev would pop in on issue like this and let us know if its at least possible or not for them to make such changes.

[Kendricke]

Devil's Advocate:  Does this lottery work in every group when you have the option turned on?  Does it only work for collectibles or does it work on book pages as well?  Does it work on other harvests? 

If I accept a group invitation from someone who has this option turned on, do I start rolling lotto on every collection I pick up in the same zone?

Better yet, using the new loot rules, do I even get the chance to roll on collectibles that I've already assigned to a collection, since technically collection items count as quest items?

[Valdaglerion]

Kendricke wrote:

(1) Devil's Advocate:  Does this lottery work in every group when you have the option turned on?  Does it only work for collectibles or does it work on book pages as well?  Does it work on other harvests? 

(2) If I accept a group invitation from someone who has this option turned on, do I start rolling lotto on every collection I pick up in the same zone?

(3) Better yet, using the new loot rules, do I even get the chance to roll on collectibles that I've already assigned to a collection, since technically collection items count as quest items?

1. All collectables (shinies and tomes). Only collectables not raw harvest. The harvested component is the game mechanic which makes this an unknown for probability at this time. Shinies and tomes are designated harvest so game mechanics for making this happen are unknown. Hoping a dev enlightens us one day.

2. Yes. If you are within looting range you would roll, same as other group loots.

3. A suggestion higher in the thread suggest that only No-Trade collections - pages only at this point, would be excluded be excluded from the roll. This seems to make sense as a collection can only be completed by a single toon one time and has no other value and can not be transmuted.

[Finora]

I'd just like to see it made so you can't harvest/collect if someone in your group is fighting in reasonable proximity (yes that includes mages & necros with pets too). That would solve all the problem I have with the situation.

Other than that I have no issues with someone running and getting a glowy. In groups, we generally lotto for them after sending someone out to collect them in difficult areas ( like unrest where they may be trapped), even when it isn't just a guild group. If it's pages in question, since some of those are no trade we lotto after clearing but before someone runs out to collect them.  If it's out in the middle of like Zek for example (or some other zone that you can easily get collectables without a group) though,  I could care less if it was lotto'd because I could easily run out there and get the thing solo, no grouping required. Lotto loot window on all collectables is just a little overkill I think since it is only a problem in a very few zones and can easily be worked out, if people just talk to each other.

[Deggials]

We already have the collectables lotto that come out of the chests so we dont need the harvestable ones in lotto. If u were to implement it tho be sure to implement it for harvesters (they may just harvest a rare) and transmuters as well.

[nia]

             "  Some of the higher level zones are seeing issues with these items which could easily be solved by adding them to loot. Someone collects a ground spawn and is in a group the loot window should pop up and those in the proximity have the opportunity to roll or decline it. "

        Yeah I have to agree with this....With items like black candles and so many others having such high value it makes it very unfair to most people in the group....Every group I have been in the puller or main tank gets all the shinies because they are the first to see them (since they are in front pulling)......WIth several items selling for a plat or more you just cant have one or two people getting all the shinies all the time it has to be a fair chance for everyone.