Monk Raid AA

[Squigglle]

What is the best monk raid aa? would it be str and agi? agi and wis? or artand wis?

[Fleaba]

After thinking it over with my guild leader/raid MT, we decided on Agi and Wis. He hated the FD buff at first cuz when stuffed in a corner and see nothing but the mob, it's kind of hard at times to tell if you are just stunned or the FD buff kicked in. After a while he came to finally realize that the FD buff is the best OH SHEET thing out there and now loves it. Just remember, given the lengthy recast timer, I usually held off casting it until it looked like a good pull and it wouldn't be wasted on him cuz a healer was afk on the pull. Wisdom line to max out my health. Everything else in the game can be buffed to the point of ubber diminishing returns or capped, health on the other hand you can never have enough of, especially when Off tanking or MTing special mobs. For instance, the 3rd named in Freethinkers....kind of a bugger at times. I really couldn't do much of anything but auto attack with my ranged weapon because of the distance requirements for the raid force. However, with my 9.2k self buffed health, I would wait until I saw someone get knocked around and run right in to use my intercede on the MT so he could survive the spike damage (That extra health made the difference at times). Once the we got past the last mem wipe I'd cast the FD buff on our MT and viola! If the MT had a hard time getting agro back after a mem wipe, I'd FD my whole group to make sure that none of them would be holding agro from the MT and causing the raid to get pwned by the aoe. It all boils down to who your regular raiders are and what gaps you need to fill. We decided having me Spec'd out for maximum tanking ability was the way to go cuz of the variety of Raid mobs I ended up tanking or Off tanking while our MT was being rezzed and rebuffed. I do however miss the buff at the end of the Int line for raid tanking at times.... I've found a niche in our guild for my Monk and like I said in another post....when you need a tank to hold a mob off from the raid, surviving moments of no heals while you and the rest of your group are stunned etc. Fleaball Le'Itchy is the tank to call.... If you DO plan on raid tanking, concentrate on getting your paws on as much good gear with +x number vs. slash, piercing and crushing as you can and mit adorments too. They make a night and day difference.... P.S. Even with very little AA's in dps trees, I'd still see 2k+ parses at times if in a dps group.

[Kaoru]

It all breaks down to what your guild wants from you, ie. what your role is going to be. The most popular aa lines seem to be: 4/4/8 sta/wis/int - good straight dps build 4/4/8/6/2 wis/int - crane flock is nice burst damage, get lots of health from wis end line in int is good for solo/tanking (to a point). Both those give an extra point you can spend somewhere, I (as the last poster put) would recommend putting it in the max hp in the wis line since raw health is going to save your butt more times then anything else. I would forget completely about the str if you raid as it really isn't useful for anything but leveling up your toon. But again it really does depend on what you are going to be doing in your particular guild as we can be used in many different ways.

[Squigglle]

i want max dps

[Fleaba]

Then as the previous poster said, go 4,4,8 in stam, wis, and intl. Other builds can give you better burst dps for a quick rise up the parse every 5 minutes, but this build is a nice consistent dps build. Weasel your way into a dirge + zerker group and you'll do nicely. Mostly mastered, a nice selection of proc and str gear and staying on the ball should net you 1.8k to 2.2k average parses with that build easy. Don't forget to use the "I"m a monk with leet haste, so it'd be a waste to put your proc buffs on anyone else" shpeel too for a lil extra dpees Dang! Just realized you are only lvl 18...in that case dump the monk and roll a brig, assasin or swashy if you want max dps from swinging a weapon.

[Exordus]

~switched to appropriate thread~

Xordus

[Squigglle]

Hammburgler@Venekor wrote:

Then as the previous poster said, go 4,4,8 in stam, wis, and intl. Other builds can give you better burst dps for a quick rise up the parse every 5 minutes, but this build is a nice consistent dps build. Weasel your way into a dirge + zerker group and you'll do nicely. Mostly mastered, a nice selection of proc and str gear and staying on the ball should net you 1.8k to 2.2k average parses with that build easy. Don't forget to use the "I"m a monk with leet haste, so it'd be a waste to put your proc buffs on anyone else" shpeel too for a lil extra dpees Dang! Just realized you are only lvl 18...in that case dump the monk and roll a brig, assasin or swashy if you want max dps from swinging a weapon.

i have a assasin, and i like the monk role.

[Xanthar]

For max DPS, I've found the 4,4,8 trick to work, but I use the AGI line to speed up my reuse timers. I see that as a far better option than the STA line. Also, with the AGI line you get an additional attack (Baton Flurry) that speeds up your recast time dramatically on all CAs that miss or are interrupted.

As a matter of fact, I think the AGI and INT lines are the best to increase DPS with the 4,4,8 build. I would use EITHER the WIS or STA lines, but WIS gets my vote because it gives you the AE proc plus the AE attack (Crane Sweep).

So, go 4,4,8 AGI; 4,4,8 WIS, and 4,4,8 INT for max DPS. Someone would have to come up with a darn good argument to convince me that either STA or WIS lines (at 4,4, give you better benefits than Baton Flurry and Ambidexterity. Ambidexterity speeds up reuse timers 12% with 8 points. That's all CAs 12% faster, that has to be either the 1st or 2nd best ability to gain DPS from (steady) in the entire tree (maybe second only to Eagel's Fury).

I would put the last point in STR just for giggles.

[Xanthar]

And, BTW... Putting the 2nd row AA abilities on the same timer was one of the most idiotic things I've seen in on-line gaming. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly and harshly, but it made absolutley no sense to force people to use AA points in an ability then not allow them to use it. That change made it where I spent 8 AA points I couldn't use AT ALL. I spam one of my 2nd row abilities and I had 2 others. That's 8 points wasted that you forced me to assign to get the 3rd ability. If you put anything on the same timer, make it the 4th row abilities since you don't HAVE to choose those to move down the line.

Thank you Sony for seeing the light on this one and giving it back. However, it's moves like these that change a person's gaming experience and cause them to leave the game entirely. For instance, my guild leader said to move along with the supposition that the AA line changes were permament. I was at my last whit with my Monk since I had just got my raid DPS where my raid leader wanted it (after months of testing and playing). That AA change lowered my DPS about 150-200, right back where I was 2 months before. It was frustrating to no end. So, I made a Dirge. He's now 70 and the guild counts on him at raids. I enjoy playing him more than the Monk with shared reuse timers but not more than a Monk without shared reuse timers. If my father, mother, brother, and son weren't all in my guild I would leave the game based on these ridiculous changes over the past few months. There are other games I enjoy more anyway, but I'm here because I like playing with my familiy. As it stands now, my Dirge is my main and that's irreversable. So, YOU changed my gaming experience by swinging the nerf bat once too often.

So, SoE, BE CAREFUL! When you get so much negative feedback when things are on test, you should listen. I haven't heard as much negative feedback as I have on anything in a long time as I heard on the shared AA timers. I saw post after post after post. If it weren't for my familiy all playing together, I'd be gone.

/vent over

[OokamiHime]

I'd like to hear a bit more about agi vs. wis or sta.  Since it doesn't make my CA's come back faster, I've been unsure how great the benifit is.  With our haste I assume that it will let us get a bit more auto-attack damage in inbetween CA's, but I'm not sure if that outweighs the procs from sta/wis.  Anyone messed around with this much?

[Couching]

What is monk aa in raid? It depends on if you want to max out your dps or for utilities? For dps, wis and int line combo is the way to go. The 12% haste on CA reuse for dps is worse than 18.1% critical chance or crane flock. The combo of agi/int or agi/wis is worse than wis/int in dps. Not to say, if you don't have a pair of 2.5 delay weapon, the more CA you use, the more auto attack you lose.

[OokamiHime]

ouch  I just went from str/agi/int  to sta/wis/int... and I lost quite a bit of dps.  went from 820 to 730 (all solo on the graveyard mobs in LP by the LF entrance)  For both parses I ran the graveyard plus the 3 heroic vamps that roam and the 4 heroic wargs at ent 3 times each.

 I'm using the twin calamaties and the bonetooth skewer as my weapons, though I have not adorned them yet.

3 pieces of eof set gear, everything else legendary with some adorns (str, dps, etc.)

str with the sta/wis/int setup is only 484...  I know that better gear will help, but I didn't think I was so poorly setup that I would loose dps

 Anyone have some insight for me?  I really want to kick out some stellar dps (for a monk ) but I'm not sure what else I can do.  I still have quite a few aa to grab for the eof tree yet, but I want to do all that I can.  I almost never tank in any situation and I'm satisfied with my current utility- I just want to burn down mobs atm.

 I don't raid often (maybe once a month lol- not in a raiding guild anymore) but I WANT to.  I think I need to have more to offer to be able to though.

Though I don't raid yet much, I do instances frequently.  If there is gear I need to grab, adorns, different aa, tactics.. whatever it takes.  I've been reading the forums quite a bit and have taken what advice I've seen.. but yeah.  I'm not happy with 820 solo dps (and definately not with 730 /shudder) Thanks in advance

[Couching]

830 dps isn't bad. My dps is around 800-900 while soloing vampires in catacomb. If I use crane flock, I will have 1000-1100 dps. Since you are using bonetooth and twin, you may check if you can get better dos with hitting big CAs only rather than spamming CAs.

[OokamiHime]

I couldn't take it lol.  Just switched back to 448 str,agi,int and grabbed a +10dps adorn for my ranged slot and i'm back where I was before.  Oddly though, the only thing I changed was to add that adorn and my dps is just a bit lower than what it was when I parsed it earlier today.  I use ACT and I parsed in the same place, same mobs... anyone else notice the inconsistancy with that parser? Either way I'm going to stick it out barefisted until I get more quality gear and procs etc.  I just don't understand why the 448 sta/wis/int works for everyone but me

 If 730-830 dps solo isn't that bad then I'll stop beating myself up over it, but it just seems hard to get a raiding guild to be interested in a monk period- so I feel I need to really kick [Removed for Content] to stand a chance

 Any additional comments on what I can do to spruce this up would be helpful- and good luck to you all

[Bewts]

Right now I run INT/WIS, Craneflock in a group with a zerker and Dirge do wonders for your DPS.  I think the chance to do critical damage is probably one of the largest contributors to our overall damage, so I'd never give up the Int line down to at least the 3rd tier.  Craneflock also is a huge contributor, and the AE proc never hurts and IMO is more significant than the single target proc from the Sta line on named - which IMO is much more important than a ZW Parse.  You're gonna beat the trash most of the time and normally if you do wipe its on a named so thats my theory behind that.  I'd rather be able to pull 1.5k dps on a named, than pull 1.5k dps ZW, but only do 1k dps on the named due to lack of ways to increase my single fight DPS.

I have always wondered how STR/WIS would work combining Chi with Craneflock, but I can't give up the 18% to criticals, I also run the crit cloak and MoA necklace so my critical chance is what... 22% from worn/AP?

Agi line has intrigued me, but I try to limit using CA's because I don't run two 2.5 delay weapons yet so I'll lose a bit on my CA's.  No reason to use your CA's more often if you will end up losing DPS on your auto attack.

Regards,

Sanctum

[Xanthar]

What's the deal behind the comments I see about running 2 2.5 second delay weapons? Is faster better? Is faster worse? On one hand? Two hands?

I have a REAL nice fabled weapon on my first hand that has a 1.6 second delay and I use Razor Gaulnlets on my 2nd hand and they are 2.5 (I think) delay and do very good damage with adornment proc. My primary DW weapon is from Lord Vyemm (Sorry I'm not logged in and it's late LOL can't remember the exact name of the weapon). It's a scepter, though.

I don't know how things are supposed to be for Monks in general, but I spent months with my various weapons and AA builds looking for max DPS. I solo even con, no arrow mobs at about 950 to 1,100 solo. If all my abilities are up and they all fall just right I can get up to 1,250-1,300. I found the build and set up that gets me closer to the 1,100 more times than the others. Since I stopped playing my Monk to make the main guild Dirge, my Monk never had a Dirge in his group. The highest parse I remember from my Monk on a raid (no 5th tier AA abilities) was 1,720. The last 2 weeks before the notorious 2nd row AA time share, I was parsing 1,400 to 1,500 consistantly at raid.

I was spec'd 4,4,8 down the AGI, WIS, and INT lines.

[Bewts]

If I have my numbers right... .5 to cast most spells, 1 sec delay to refresh = 1.5 seconds available before you lose an auto attack... auto attack at 2.5 prior to haste means if you drop 2.5 in half you have 1.25 seconds to cast combat arts.

Most people don't cap at 100% faster swings, but we get pretty close so using a 2.5 delay weapon allows you to 'time' combat art uses between auto attacks to maximize DPS.

Now, if you lower casting times... you can get away with a 'faster' delay.  But then again, a 13.1% decrease is only .06 seconds in a .5 cast time(thats .44 seconds).  I'm not familiar with how much more you can shorten your cast times with agi, but I suppose if you can drop them to .25 seconds you can get away with a 'faster' delay weapon.

I also don't look so much at the delay as I do the damage range... when I'm running 25%ish on critical chance, a weapon thats base max damage is 100+ (for DW and theres only a couple that have 100+ base damage), you will see a larger increase in your DPS than you'd see with say a base max damage of 65.  This just so happens to coincide with the 2.5 delay weapons.

I rarely compare DR's anymore when comparing 2 weapons because we monks run so far to the extreme on haste we have to pay more attention to other things.

[Siatfallen]

I very recently respecced (I seem to do that a lot these days), and my current setup for raiding, which is a DPS purist setup (do not expect to be any good soloing heroics and a mediocre group tank at best) is explained below. It should be noted that I am raiding exclusively KoS content at this point. KoS: I use the Twin Calamities from the Labs, 1.6 second delay weapons, which means I'm looking at an autoattack delay (with 119 haste selfbuffed) of around 0.8 seconds. This has been important in placing the AA points here, as will be explained: Wis: 4/8/8/2/2 - Basically, this line I find valuable for AE damage, something the monk otherwise lacks, and I've maximized the damagedealers in the line. Crane Flock alone makes this a must-have for me and without having looked at parses over it, I'd wager Crane Twirl give a better over all DPS output than Mantis Bolt (from the sta line) even against a single target. My math could be off, though. Int: 4/4/8 - This line used to be 4/8/8/2/2 for me, but Eagle spin does very little for DPS, and the last four points essentially are irrelevant. The end ability is extremely useful for soloing, but that's not what this build is for. Agi: 4/5 - With Baton flurry at adept 1, the recovery time on my CAs are now .37 seconds. Together with the casting time reduction from swift calm, a CA now takes 0.81 seconds to cast and to recover from - which means fewer lost autoattacks. Alternately, I imagine it would be possible to exchange the int line for the Sta line, but I foresee very little gain DPSwise in doing so. Additionally, as soon as I have a set of weapons with a longer delay, the idea behind speccing to the agi line is likely void - As it stands, I have raid grade weapons with 1.2, 1.9 and 2.5 second delays, but the calamities is the only fabled set with the same delay I have lying around. I'll get back to this subject as soon as I have the weapons to properly test this. EoF: All kicks (the left side) are at 5 points. Jabs (the middle) are at 3-5-5. Combination 1. Crescent strike is at 3, infutiating tranquility 3, Tranquil Vision and Mongoose stance 5, Dragon Breath 4, Evade Check 1. - I plan to play around with this for a bit, and possibly abandon the evade check (it does not seem to do much anyway) and move the 6 points from Crescent Strike and Infuriating tranquility to the right-hand combination bar and stick a fifth point in dragonbreath, something like that.

[Couching]

I might be wrong but as I know that the refresh time is 0.5 sec rather than 1 sec. If the casting speed of a CA is 0.5 sec, 0.5 sec to refresh = 1 sec total to cast a CA. In other word, if your weapon delay is lower than 1 sec hasted, you will lose auto attack no matter how you time your CA. How to verify you did good timing on CA or not, you can check your log with ACT. It shows your actually weapon delay. Comparing your weapon delay with haste and actual delay in your log by ACT, you can get a rough idea of how many auto-attack you lose by CA. For example, if you have a pair of 1.6 delay weapons. With 100% haste, it should be 0.8 delay ideally. However, in your log, your weapon delay is 1.1 only, it means 38% of your atuo-attack were wasted. Also, you need to consider what buff you have. For example, did you get double attack from illusionist or from dirge? Or if you have weapon with double attack? Besides, don't forget we have 100% double attack in 16 sec when we hit crane flock. Basically, it's not hard if there is no lag while playing. For example, I have checked my parse on 3rd floor of EH. I was dueling two 2.5 delay weapon with group of dirge and zerker. With my self haste, it's about 105% haste. Moreover, I will get temp haste buff from zerker and dirge pluse 10% double attack from dirge. The actual delay I got on ACT is 0.5 (since both of my weapons are slashing damage, that's why). See, I did good timing on CA since the ideal delay of my weapon should be 1.1-1.2 depends on temp buffs. Though, with 10% double attack and several crane flock I used, I got 1 sec delay on both weapons rather than 1.1-1.2. PS: This example is merged from 13 fights of trash and Herald of Woushi on 3rd EH. The total length is 20 minutes.

[PantherXX]

Two different weapon delays can make the problem even worse, as you now have to time your CAs between two different autoattack cycles.  That is the reason people suggest two matched weapons.

[Vandiyan]

Fleaball@Crushbone wrote:

Weasel your way into a dirge + zerker group and you'll do nicely. Mostly mastered, a nice selection of proc and str gear and staying on the ball should net you 1.8k to 2.2k average parses with that build easy.

Boy would this be nice if it happened.....Ever. 

Although I do make it into a Zerker group every now and then and do parse a lot better.  But that is once in a blue moon.

[Fleaba]

Xanthar@Unrest wrote:

My primary DW weapon is from Lord Vyemm (Sorry I'm not logged in and it's late LOL can't remember the exact name of the weapon). It's a scepter, though.

Sure your not thinking of the Scepter that Tarinax drops with the 1.2 sec. delay??

[OokamiHime]

Just wanted to update on the testing I've been doing.

Went back to sta/wis/int (44 and am now using Twin Calamaties (both versions).  I once again noticed a HUGE drop in dps.. but when I started scouring act... realized that my melee was missing far too often.  Go and check my skills... and yeah.  had next to nothing for piercing skill  /embarassed.    Worked on it a lot tonight and am still not all the way up, but did see a slow improvement.  I still don't see how its going to surpass what I had going with str/agi/int.. but we'll see.   Just wanted to amend my earlier post about sta/wis/int being horrible for me- I just need to give it more time.

Did my testing in a different place this time as well- was soloing the heroic mobs surrounding OoB.  Gave me a chance to fuly cycle my CA's and start on a second cycle.

• Dps with the str/agi/int build averaged 920
• With the sta/wis/int build averaged 760  (but considering the miss rate I'm getting its not so terrible)

Slight gear upgrades as well with Wu armor for head,chest,shoulder,wrist, and the fabled dwarven workboots, and Marr cloak

 I'll post again once I'm sure that the pierce skill was what was messing with the results, but I still feel mildly [Removed for Content].  Finally got into a newer raiding guild on my server and I'm working with the Raid Leader to figure out where I should be shooting for my zonewide dps to be.  I'd love some information on that if anyone has it.  I will rarely (aka never) be in a good group.  MIGHT see a fury with me.. but thats about it for now.  SO: with that in mind.. anyone have any idea what I should be trying to hit for my zonewide dps goal for raids?

 Thanks for any info