Have I turned into a squishie

Jeger_Wulf · 03-05-2007, 12:59 PM

My troubadour has hit 65, and his armor is a mix of legendary, mastercrafted, fabled, and treasured. He is definitely not raid-equipped, but he is wearing better than usually he did while leveling up. I travel with a group that has played together for months: Two healers (templar and inquisitor), and zerker, and me. We usually get a couple DPS and go.

It seems lately that if my troubadour gets aggro, he will go down faster than the healers can even get a heal off. Back in the 40s and 50s, I could survive some aggro - even tank a while if the tank went down. Now, however, if the tank gets stunned and I get aggro, I am down so fast that no-one can react. My wife (the templar) says I am dying faster than a mage type now.

Is this normal?

(We are taking on yellow ^^^ in Mistmoor or Kaladim.)

Zygwen · 03-05-2007, 01:34 PM

Inspect the mages and compare their avoidance with yours. Also inspect the % mitigated. I would assume that their avoidance is higher and their mitigation is lower. If the difference between their avoidance % is greater than the difference between mitigation % then they should take less damage. This is possible because as a cloth wearer they get a higher base avoidance and self buffs that boost avoidance and mitigation. Looking at your gear, I'd suggest upgrading your chest piece since it has less mitigation than your Mastercrafted gloves. You might also want to get 2 imbued acrylia rings for agility and strength. You should get the Gnomeland Security cloak from one of the quest in Steamfonts it procs a 200 damage self ward and finally you might want to farm Acadechism for the chain set pieces.

Jeger_Wulf · 03-05-2007, 02:00 PM

Thanks for the tips. I have not found any chain in Acad better than what I am wearing, but will keep farming anyway, because there are a couple of us that still want the ring that drops there. The chain pieces that I have seen so far seem geared toward the Mystic with Wisdom instead of Intelligence, and a boost to wards.

Getting back to my question, though. Outside of raids, can troubies tank some at higher levels, or is that no longer possible?

Milaevo · 03-05-2007, 02:42 PM

I don't seem to have a problem being a tank, me and my wife run around as troub/mystic though we are both highly mastered and are mostly legendary + gear, but we can duo poet's palace with ease( actually seems a little easier troub/mystic then me playing my pally just due to DPS increase) and we have taken a few lvl 70 ^^^ named mobs. Could also go with a 1h and shield to help your avoidance, though your DPS will drop some with this. Also is your defense skill maxed out, with this not maxed your avoidance is not what it should be and can make you very squishie.

Novusod · 03-05-2007, 03:35 PM

If you go 4-4-8 str and 4-4-8 agi plus baladic avoidance (adept 3 or better) you will be a lot less squishy. Also when you start raiding there are going to be epics that can one shot you with their AoE. If you have blade-dance you will become one of the least squishy in the raid. Blade-dance will make defeating Garnel in Unrest and other high AoE mobs into a cake walk.

Jeger_Wulf · 03-05-2007, 03:35 PM

> I don't seem to have a problem being a tank

Thanks - I will assume it's something wrong with me or my gear then. SMILEY

It's highly possible my defense is real low, because I group with the tank all the time and so rarely get mob attention. I will check tonight.

Pogopuschel · 03-06-2007, 04:06 AM

Even with fabled/Nightcord stuff I find I'm very squishy still... SMILEY

I've seen wizards tank better. But stuff like PP is still doable especially with a healer. Also note that EoF T7 mobs just hit a lot harder than KoS stuff, the regular ^^^-KoS mob is a joke in comparison to an EoF one of the same level. I'm not 100% sure about this but it seemed to me that magical resists became a lot more important in the game, even when not in a raid zone. SMILEY

Emerix · 03-06-2007, 07:18 AM

I tanked Valdoons as a Trouby . So its not that bad . Were not raid tanks though . fortunately

Tri · 03-06-2007, 07:19 AM

lvl 70, 85 AAs , mix of nightcord and relic , almost fully mastered ... I should be allowed to slack a bit when facing the solo named on the small islands attached to HoF, but alas it is not possible SMILEY

using a shield helps a lot, though i rarely do so given i can't stand the looks of roundshields... Wish the drop rate of ferox's roundshield was higher SMILEY

missing_peace · 03-06-2007, 12:52 PM

The lack of a defensive stance will always hinder your defensive abilities so you will always be a little bit squishier than other scouts (but better to not dwell on that issue.)

I would wager that with a full set of legendary gear that you would not be as vulnerable as a mage. Still, it is better to rely on charm and mez to temporarily cut down on the incoming damage until the tank can get things back under control. If the tank is stunned or mezzed then charm the worst mob in the encounter and sick it on it's buddies (or if it's a single mob, you get a short breather) Also, use evade once the tank gets back in the fight. If the tank starts eating dirt then it is often possible to mez and save the group. If that's not possible, well, there is always escape.

Jeger_Wulf · 03-06-2007, 01:01 PM

Well, I checked my defense and parry out last night, and they are both close to max. The mobs that destroyed me were EoF mobs, so perhaps that was it.

> If the tank is stunned or mezzed then charm the worst mob in the encounter > and sick it on it's buddies (or if it's a single mob, you get a short breather)

Yes, that's what I try. I am talking about what happens should that go wrong. The mob is on me, and BAM! I am down before the healers can react. This is a new thing with T7. With T6, I could tank a while. In fact, once the tank went down, and I was able to tank the mob with one healer, while the other got the zerker back up and buffed. I burned most of the first healer's mana doing that, but it worked.

Novusod · 03-06-2007, 02:49 PM

The very instant I take agro I use cheap shot on the mob. I have AA in cheap shot so it is quite a long stun that cannot be resisted where the mob can't hit me. It is more than enough time for a healer to react. I also use cheap shot if the tank is about to die.

Jeger_Wulf · 03-06-2007, 03:58 PM

I do also. Remember, I am not talking about what happens when things go right. Here is an example of what I am talking about:

We were not used to the invisible mobs in mistmore, and the tank was tanking two. Not a problem, but a little tense. Then, there was a surprise yellow ^^^ pop on a healer. I charmed him to pull him out of the pack, then broke his charm, and cheap-shotted him. I cast mezz, which was resisted. (doesn't happen too often, because of my AAs.) In the past, I would let him hit me once or twice, re-cast mez and all would be good. This time, though, I was dead before I could recast mez. It was fast, and surprising.

Spider · 03-07-2007, 05:27 PM

there were some recent changes with mit that as still a bit unclear to most people (myself included)

but basicaly from what i can figure out is if the mobs higher lvl or your gears lower lvl the functionaliy of your mitigation is drasticaly reduced or somethign to that effect

i dont have all the info on this and im sure there are people that can explain it far better than I so i will leave it to them but im betting that your being effected somehow by the new changes

Vraneth · 03-09-2007, 04:18 AM

The problems you are facing sounds like it's related to the fact that you are dealing with EoF mobs. EoF mobs are way are beefed up compared to the same level in KoS and especially Castle Mistmoore. Where I usually don't have a problem taking a yellow solo con toe-to-toe, the solo cons in CMM's foyer makes me have to use a few tricks instead of taking them head on, all this only due to the fact that the mobs in this zone are a lot tougher than in any other place.

03-05-2007, 12:59 PM	#1
Jeger_Wulf Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 505	My troubadour has hit 65, and his armor is a mix of legendary, mastercrafted, fabled, and treasured. He is definitely not raid-equipped, but he is wearing better than usually he did while leveling up. I travel with a group that has played together for months: Two healers (templar and inquisitor), and zerker, and me. We usually get a couple DPS and go. It seems lately that if my troubadour gets aggro, he will go down faster than the healers can even get a heal off. Back in the 40s and 50s, I could survive some aggro - even tank a while if the tank went down. Now, however, if the tank gets stunned and I get aggro, I am down so fast that no-one can react. My wife (the templar) says I am dying faster than a mage type now. Is this normal? (We are taking on yellow ^^^ in Mistmoor or Kaladim.) __________________ Karc Shadowwalker 80 Illusionist, Najena Jeger Wulf 80 Troubadour, Najena Foster Suncaller 7x Warlock, Najena

03-05-2007, 01:34 PM	#2
Zygwen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 277	Inspect the mages and compare their avoidance with yours. Also inspect the % mitigated. I would assume that their avoidance is higher and their mitigation is lower. If the difference between their avoidance % is greater than the difference between mitigation % then they should take less damage. This is possible because as a cloth wearer they get a higher base avoidance and self buffs that boost avoidance and mitigation. Looking at your gear, I'd suggest upgrading your chest piece since it has less mitigation than your Mastercrafted gloves. You might also want to get 2 imbued acrylia rings for agility and strength. You should get the Gnomeland Security cloak from one of the quest in Steamfonts it procs a 200 damage self ward and finally you might want to farm Acadechism for the chain set pieces. __________________ Evalin, lvl 90 Swashbuckler Joannax, lvl 90 Troubador Sacrifice Oasis

03-05-2007, 02:00 PM	#3
Jeger_Wulf Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 505	Thanks for the tips. I have not found any chain in Acad better than what I am wearing, but will keep farming anyway, because there are a couple of us that still want the ring that drops there. The chain pieces that I have seen so far seem geared toward the Mystic with Wisdom instead of Intelligence, and a boost to wards. Getting back to my question, though. Outside of raids, can troubies tank some at higher levels, or is that no longer possible? __________________ Karc Shadowwalker 80 Illusionist, Najena Jeger Wulf 80 Troubadour, Najena Foster Suncaller 7x Warlock, Najena

03-05-2007, 03:35 PM	#5
Novusod Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,719	If you go 4-4-8 str and 4-4-8 agi plus baladic avoidance (adept 3 or better) you will be a lot less squishy. Also when you start raiding there are going to be epics that can one shot you with their AoE. If you have blade-dance you will become one of the least squishy in the raid. Blade-dance will make defeating Garnel in Unrest and other high AoE mobs into a cake walk. __________________

03-05-2007, 03:35 PM	#6
Jeger_Wulf Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 505	> I don't seem to have a problem being a tank Thanks - I will assume it's something wrong with me or my gear then. It's highly possible my defense is real low, because I group with the tank all the time and so rarely get mob attention. I will check tonight. __________________ Karc Shadowwalker 80 Illusionist, Najena Jeger Wulf 80 Troubadour, Najena Foster Suncaller 7x Warlock, Najena

03-05-2007, 02:42 PM	#4
Milaevo Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 21	I don't seem to have a problem being a tank, me and my wife run around as troub/mystic though we are both highly mastered and are mostly legendary + gear, but we can duo poet's palace with ease( actually seems a little easier troub/mystic then me playing my pally just due to DPS increase) and we have taken a few lvl 70 ^^^ named mobs. Could also go with a 1h and shield to help your avoidance, though your DPS will drop some with this. Also is your defense skill maxed out, with this not maxed your avoidance is not what it should be and can make you very squishie.

03-06-2007, 04:06 AM	#7
Pogopuschel Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 408	Even with fabled/Nightcord stuff I find I'm very squishy still... I've seen wizards tank better. But stuff like PP is still doable especially with a healer. Also note that EoF T7 mobs just hit a lot harder than KoS stuff, the regular ^^^-KoS mob is a joke in comparison to an EoF one of the same level. I'm not 100% sure about this but it seemed to me that magical resists became a lot more important in the game, even when not in a raid zone. __________________ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Runnyeye.Luitgard, 80 Berserker - Member of Xanadu ... and a few alts... 80 Troubadour / 80 Dirge / 80 Ranger / 80 Warden / 80 Illusionist / 80 Mystic / 80 Necromancer / 80 Warlock / 80 Brigand

03-06-2007, 07:18 AM	#8
Emerix Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 371	I tanked Valdoons as a Trouby . So its not that bad . Were not raid tanks though . fortunately

03-06-2007, 07:19 AM	#9
Tri General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 156	lvl 70, 85 AAs , mix of nightcord and relic , almost fully mastered ... I should be allowed to slack a bit when facing the solo named on the small islands attached to HoF, but alas it is not possible using a shield helps a lot, though i rarely do so given i can't stand the looks of roundshields... Wish the drop rate of ferox's roundshield was higher

03-06-2007, 12:52 PM	#10
missing_peace Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	The lack of a defensive stance will always hinder your defensive abilities so you will always be a little bit squishier than other scouts (but better to not dwell on that issue.) I would wager that with a full set of legendary gear that you would not be as vulnerable as a mage. Still, it is better to rely on charm and mez to temporarily cut down on the incoming damage until the tank can get things back under control. If the tank is stunned or mezzed then charm the worst mob in the encounter and sick it on it's buddies (or if it's a single mob, you get a short breather) Also, use evade once the tank gets back in the fight. If the tank starts eating dirt then it is often possible to mez and save the group. If that's not possible, well, there is always escape.

03-06-2007, 01:01 PM	#11
Jeger_Wulf Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 505	Well, I checked my defense and parry out last night, and they are both close to max. The mobs that destroyed me were EoF mobs, so perhaps that was it. > If the tank is stunned or mezzed then charm the worst mob in the encounter > and sick it on it's buddies (or if it's a single mob, you get a short breather) Yes, that's what I try. I am talking about what happens should that go wrong. The mob is on me, and BAM! I am down before the healers can react. This is a new thing with T7. With T6, I could tank a while. In fact, once the tank went down, and I was able to tank the mob with one healer, while the other got the zerker back up and buffed. I burned most of the first healer's mana doing that, but it worked. __________________ Karc Shadowwalker 80 Illusionist, Najena Jeger Wulf 80 Troubadour, Najena Foster Suncaller 7x Warlock, Najena

03-06-2007, 02:49 PM	#12
Novusod Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,719	The very instant I take agro I use cheap shot on the mob. I have AA in cheap shot so it is quite a long stun that cannot be resisted where the mob can't hit me. It is more than enough time for a healer to react. I also use cheap shot if the tank is about to die. __________________

03-06-2007, 03:58 PM	#13
Jeger_Wulf Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 505	I do also. Remember, I am not talking about what happens when things go right. Here is an example of what I am talking about: We were not used to the invisible mobs in mistmore, and the tank was tanking two. Not a problem, but a little tense. Then, there was a surprise yellow ^^^ pop on a healer. I charmed him to pull him out of the pack, then broke his charm, and cheap-shotted him. I cast mezz, which was resisted. (doesn't happen too often, because of my AAs.) In the past, I would let him hit me once or twice, re-cast mez and all would be good. This time, though, I was dead before I could recast mez. It was fast, and surprising. __________________ Karc Shadowwalker 80 Illusionist, Najena Jeger Wulf 80 Troubadour, Najena Foster Suncaller 7x Warlock, Najena

03-07-2007, 05:27 PM	#14
Spider Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,112	there were some recent changes with mit that as still a bit unclear to most people (myself included) but basicaly from what i can figure out is if the mobs higher lvl or your gears lower lvl the functionaliy of your mitigation is drasticaly reduced or somethign to that effect i dont have all the info on this and im sure there are people that can explain it far better than I so i will leave it to them but im betting that your being effected somehow by the new changes

03-09-2007, 04:18 AM	#15
Vraneth Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 55	The problems you are facing sounds like it's related to the fact that you are dealing with EoF mobs. EoF mobs are way are beefed up compared to the same level in KoS and especially Castle Mistmoore. Where I usually don't have a problem taking a yellow solo con toe-to-toe, the solo cons in CMM's foyer makes me have to use a few tricks instead of taking them head on, all this only due to the fact that the mobs in this zone are a lot tougher than in any other place.