From a Crafter's PoV - LU24 IS A MASSIVE NERF

Maroger · 06-13-2006, 12:28 AM

Crafting is really being nerfed out of existence in this LU24.

One of the things that made crafting specifal was the sub combines -- it stopped people from flooding the market with junk as they wouldn't waste the time on it. Now everything we make will be totally worthless. We can't even make a few silver from selling to an NPC.

I really would like to know how developers could ever think they were improving the game when all they are doing is dealing a death of a thousand cuts.

The obviously want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE. We can no longer make legendary items. That is reserved for adventuring.

Why the push for adventurers??? People who craft pay the same money as adventurers to play this game, why does the whole game have to be geared to adventurers.

I would like to see some of the crafting changes ROLLED BACK.

I could see maybe puting the WORTS on NPC vendors -- but I can't see doing away with the subcombines. True crafters really like them.

I think developerment should give some serious thought to NOT IMPLEMENTING all the crafting changes.

Bayler_x · 06-13-2006, 12:32 AM

Maroger wrote: ...
The obviously want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE. We can no longer make legendary items. That is reserved for adventuring.

...

You forgot to mention the part about them sitting in their smoking jackets at SOE headquarters, cackling and twisting the ends of their mustaches between their fingers.

valkyrja · 06-13-2006, 12:43 AM

Maroger wrote:
Crafting is really being nerfed out of existence in this LU24.

One of the things that made crafting specifal was the sub combines -- it stopped people from flooding the market with junk as they wouldn't waste the time on it. Now everything we make will be totally worthless. We can't even make a few silver from selling to an NPC.

I really would like to know how developers could ever think they were improving the game when all they are doing is dealing a death of a thousand cuts.

The obviously want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE. We can no longer make legendary items. That is reserved for adventuring.

Why the push for adventurers??? People who craft pay the same money as adventurers to play this game, why does the whole game have to be geared to adventurers.When you use the "I pay as much as they do" argument, you immediately lose any legit argument you may have.

I would like to see some of the crafting changes ROLLED BACK.

I could see maybe puting the WORTS on NPC vendors -- but I can't see doing away with the subcombines. True crafters really like them.What is a true crafter? I have 3 crafting toons over level 50 and I hate subs. I can't wait for the changes to take place, as now when someone asks me to make them some low level stuff I won't turn them down because I don't want to waste time making all the subs.

I think developerment should give some serious thought to NOT IMPLEMENTING all the crafting changes.

I really think people need to calm down about this. Sure some new people will begin crafting when the changes come up, but the bulk of them will still not like the new system and after a short while, will stop crafting. So there might be a short influx in the market, but it will go back to normal.

Message Edited by sparql on 06-12-2006 03:43 PM

Krieg · 06-13-2006, 12:49 AM

Dead horse. Beaten and bloody.

Finora · 06-13-2006, 02:26 AM

Double post opps.

Message Edited by Calendri on 06-12-200606:29 PM

Message Edited by Calendri on 06-12-2006 06:30 PM

Finora · 06-13-2006, 02:26 AM

Can we say bit of an overreaction?

I've 3 lvl 70 crafters, a couple 40-50s, and a multitude of teens and 20s. I spend most of my time crafting and harvesting so I can craft. I am looking forward to subs being gone. I didn't like the idea at first (because of how t7 was in the begining of KOS beta) but they improved upon it and now it will work out well in my opinion.

The people who hate TS ing will still hate TSing. It will still take a lot of time (perhaps even more ) to level up. Some of the broker crafters will likely lose some money because they won't be able to get away with charging 4 pp for something that costs under 4 gold to combine if you find your own rare and less than 1.5 pp if you buy one. The rest of us might see more business as the combines won't take as long so we will be able to do combine while you wait business instead of mostly mail order. I know my sage is making even more money these days with t7 combines being so fast. I'm able to make 5 spells in the time it used to take me to make one.

Don't knock the changes before you really give them a chance.

Message Edited by Calendri on 06-12-2006 06:29 PM

BWLeeEllison · 06-13-2006, 02:46 AM

It's always refreshing to see what new heights idiocy can acheive.

Crafting isn't being nerfed out of existance. It is being given new life. With subcombines going away, the "casual" crafter now has a chance to REALLY get into making things, opening up the market to competition from all sides. It could be this is where most of the angst is coming from, in regards to major craftsmen in the game to date. Let us not forget competition is good for business, so please stop the whining now.

Additionally, those who enjoy crafting will now be able to come out of the shops and actually experience some of the world's rich and diverse content. Mayhaps Sony should offer sunglasses for those who spend so much time in the dungeons called crafting instances, so they don't go blind upon coming into the light for a change. There are plenty of adventurers who could use the assistance of those who constantly chain themselves to a work bench.

The changes to harvesting and crafting will only make it so that you do not have to suffer financial [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at the hands of ruthless crafters/brokers who currently hoard resources and drive prices up. I personally can't wait to take advantage of the white sales that will spring up on all servers as of Wednesday 8P.

If you are harvesting now, you should stop. If you are tradeskilling now, you should stop. Get out and enjoy the game for a couple of days then go back to your harvesting and skilling when the PITA factors in both activities have been removed.

RAGE ON

Kidknie Rippender of Nagafen

Kidknee Rippender of Crushbone

Pumarah · 06-13-2006, 03:11 AM

Think I'll have to disagree in part her with the part about the sub-combines do they make it take longer, yes it does, but my real issue here is what is being offered in its place is the item at third level of quality, where as we for the most part as crafters willing to do that extra work can take it to the fourth/top level and that can be the little extra difference between getting a third or top quality item created, whethers it's armor and weapos, woodworking items, alchemy, scrolls and food/drink. I would have to say leave the subcombines in for those of us who want to make them, make it so we as crafters have the option of taking the new 'easier' For those with beavis and butthead intellects) route or the old fashioned and a bit more challanging method.

Shadus · 06-13-2006, 03:15 AM

Shrug, the crafting changes are about the only thing in LU24 i *do* like.

Impost · 06-13-2006, 06:13 AM

Pumarah wrote:
Think I'll have to disagree in part her with the part about the sub-combines do they make it take longer, yes it does, but my real issue here is what is being offered in its place is the item at third level of quality, where as we for the most part as crafters willing to do that extra work can take it to the fourth/top level and that can be the little extra difference between getting a third or top quality item created, whethers it's armor and weapos, woodworking items, alchemy, scrolls and food/drink. I would have to say leave the subcombines in for those of us who want to make them, make it so we as crafters have the option of taking the new 'easier' For those with beavis and butthead intellects) route or the old fashioned and a bit more challanging method.

I love these kind of comments. I have been playing this game since day one. I'm not a dedicated crafter or adventure. I'm more of the ADHD kinda player. Just do whatever gets my attention at that moment. But to call someone stupid or as u put it "Beavis and butthead intellects" for wanting to get more faster in the same about of time just goes to show ur lack on intellect. Every successful business in the world was built on the foundation of someone who found a way to do it faster and better. So I'm all for letting u do it the old way. When u come back and post in a month "Cry i can't make any money cause the market is flooded, ppl have twice as much stuff on there as me." I will just laugh at u.

MadLordOfMilk · 06-13-2006, 06:28 AM

Imposter wrote:
...as u put it "Beavis and butthead intellects" for wanting to get more faster in the same about of time just goes to show ur lack on intellect. Every...

Just a side-note, you contradicted yourself there :smileyhappy:

redlance68 · 06-13-2006, 01:29 PM

Actually i feel this LU is a boon to crafting as a whole.. yeah some gear is getting downgraded. especially hard hit will be armor and weapons. However, I feel the loss of subcombines is AWESOME!

I craft for my guilies and myself. I dont think that a legendary rock/root/gem should be so high on the scale either.. they are relatively easy to get. One thing that people are whining about is it took alot of mining or harvesting or whatever to get such and such. Well this live update makes it easier to get that.

So we have simplified crafting check. easier harvesting check. harvesting skill helps check. harvesting tools to reduce time spent check. downgrade of some things to compensate how rediculously easy harvest is gonna be check. more legendaries in market. most probably. more desperately needed fighter loams.. god i hope so for the fighters.

For me this update means 1. my level 70 crafters will be used more but spend less time doing it.

I get to play in the game more.

No more people being soaked as bad.. (still will be soaked free market and at all)

and crafted gear will be relegated as gear to wear till you earn better set. but still gear that has a purpose. As for the doom and gloom peeps.. well you can feel doom and gloom. but people actually do buy apprentice spells.. and they upgrade later.. they will buy common crafted armor. just upgrade.. and they will buy a cheap legendary if thier whim hits.. and get an armor made.. but there is always better.

Rast · 06-13-2006, 03:48 PM

In many ways I agree with the OP here. LU 24 will herald a downward slide in crafting unless major modifications are made.

In LU24 we lose subcombines, but to compensate for the 'simplicity' and 'speed' of creation we also get a reitemization nerf which really hurts anyone crafting weapons or armor. We also get a sell to vendor nerf, where all you will get is the fuel costs back. Not the small profit (and I do mean small) we get now for vendoring all the crap we make to be able to make the rares, not that rares will be worth making after the LU.

This isn't the death knell of crafting, but it is certainly getting a crudgel upside the head and the burlap sack (which was ironically made by crafters) is about to be put over their heads for easy transport. They have truly taken it from a playstyle to a sideline, and that make me sad.

sAs-Bartleby · 06-13-2006, 04:11 PM

BWLeeEllison schrieb:

It's always refreshing to see what new heights idiocy can acheive.

Crafting isn't being nerfed out of existance. It is being given new life. With subcombines going away, the "casual" crafter now has a chance to REALLY get into making things, opening up the market to competition from all sides. It could be this is where most of the angst is coming from, in regards to major craftsmen in the game to date. Let us not forget competition is good for business, so please stop the whining now.

Additionally, those who enjoy crafting will now be able to come out of the shops and actually experience some of the world's rich and diverse content. Mayhaps Sony should offer sunglasses for those who spend so much time in the dungeons called crafting instances, so they don't go blind upon coming into the light for a change. There are plenty of adventurers who could use the assistance of those who constantly chain themselves to a work bench.

The changes to harvesting and crafting will only make it so that you do not have to suffer financial [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at the hands of ruthless crafters/brokers who currently hoard resources and drive prices up. I personally can't wait to take advantage of the white sales that will spring up on all servers as of Wednesday 8P.

If you are harvesting now, you should stop. If you are tradeskilling now, you should stop. Get out and enjoy the game for a couple of days then go back to your harvesting and skilling when the PITA factors in both activities have been removed.

RAGE ON

Kidknie Rippender of Nagafen

Kidknee Rippender of Crushbone

you said all which is needed. The summary is good. But this is the mistake. SOE announced that the players may decide wether they want to do tradeskill or adventuring and that both ways will be interessting to do. you said correctly that crafting is now for casuals and that the "real" crafters have to go out to find something interessting. My summary is: it is a kick for all old crafters and a bonus to all hardcore adventurers. It is because of the whining off the masses that they had to pay for crafted stuff. Like the one who ask me to craft him a t6 rare buckler with imbue. He ask me if the lambent was in the price of 15 gold because he thoughts this was too expensive. My result after LU24 will be, that i will only craft for friends. Everybody else i will tell to do it himeself.

Rast · 06-13-2006, 04:32 PM

I know for me, I am simply looking at getting my crafters into their 60s and then probably walking away...

SwissArmySh · 06-13-2006, 05:35 PM

I'm one of the "Crafting drives me nuts with the amount of subcombines" crowd.

I for one will be happy to see the subcombines go, I might actualy put the time and effort in to level up past lvl 30 without wanting to strangle myself.

Jerr · 06-13-2006, 06:05 PM

Looks like the WOW(instant gratification) crowd is out in force. From the very beginning SOE has started crafting down that slippery slope of making it easier for those not willing to take the time and effort.

You love the no sub-combines because now it fits your "get it on demand" lifestyle. Face it-a lot of people of come to expect things right away and are unwilling and lose interest if something takes a time commitment.

The reason I liked crafting was because it too longer and you actually had to make the various pieces a real craftsman would have to make in order to fashion an item.

Now we have entered the arena of Harry Potter potions class--a rock-a piece of wood-a gem and some fuel-throw it all into the cauldron and viola--a apell pops out.

Quite a few people enjoyed the process of actually making each piece-the ink-the quill-the paper.... and seeing your crafting come actually somewhat mimick how it is actually done in real life. For you flamers I said "somewhat"

Now the ADHD crowd gets to throw it all into one part-say a magic word-and out pops a spell..or whatever your crafting.

Just sad SOE is taking the complexity and effort out of this game. I don't want another WOW-I picked EQ2 specifically because its harder.

Sad,

Jerril

Rast · 06-13-2006, 06:14 PM

I know Jerril, been trying to fight it for a while now, but it was a lost cause then, it is a lost cause now.

Hukklebuk · 06-13-2006, 07:14 PM

I thought I was going to hate the change coming in LU24, so I broke out a character I had sitting on Test for crafting purposes and I like it a lot better.I harvested and adventured for about 8 hours and got to lvl 18 adventure... hit the crafting station and made lvl 18 sage in about 2 hours. (no not all in one day). The only thing I did was make the spells I needed.. I in no way crafted everything in the recipe books.Now keep in mind on Test there is a permanent bonus to XP of both types, and the character had full vitatlity from sitting around on test under a name and only a newbie island log in.I think folks will be making things they would avoid in the past, be more willing to help others out accross all tiers, and overall I think it will be more enjoyable.And believe me I was a staunch supporter and flag waver for not changing the crafting process or if they did to simply allow stacks to be made. After seeing it and using it, I like it...There are a few minor issues with names of items etc.. but a job well done I think.

Terabethia · 06-13-2006, 07:18 PM

Jerril wrote:

Just sad SOE is taking the complexity and effort out of this game. I don't want another WOW-I picked EQ2 specifically because its harder.

Sad,

Jerril

What's sad is, the game you picked is not the most popular of them. Wow has 3 times, if not more, players than EQ2. There are several reasons behind this, but either way, SoE is missing out of a lot of customers who are picking WoW instead of EQ2. One huge factor that people like about WoW is that it is, for lack of a better word, easier. You do not have to spend as much time in the game to get to the end, and it is less effort there to be "uber". Other factor's include less expensive hareware requirements which allow more people to be able to afford to play, their outstanding and award-winning customer service, and the long following that WarCraft has in general.

Don't get me wrong, I love EQ2 and I got bored of WoW after 4 days (co-workers made me try it out! :smileytongue: ). But in the end, SoE is running a business, and it is very clear right now that the majority of MMO players, EQ2 ones included, want it this way. Sadly, you are in the minority.

Note: To the person here who mentioned it, and all the others that have said it, there is no way to make it so that you can craft combines and everyone else can choose the "easy" way. That would require making and creating two sets of recipies for everything, as well as maintaining those recipies. And don't get me started on the balance issue of it.

Dasein · 06-13-2006, 07:39 PM

Crafting is pathetically easy, with our without subcombines. Crafting consists of pressing one or two buttons over and over again for hours on end. There is virutally no skill involved. As a crafter, I have 3 total abilities I use, ever. As an adventurer, I have over 30 that I use for different situations.

Raveller · 06-13-2006, 07:48 PM

Pumarah wrote:
Think I'll have to disagree in part her with the part about the sub-combines do they make it take longer, yes it does, but my real issue here is what is being offered in its place is the item at third level of quality, where as we for the most part as crafters willing to do that extra work can take it to the fourth/top level and that can be the little extra difference between getting a third or top quality item created, whethers it's armor and weapos, woodworking items, alchemy, scrolls and food/drink. I would have to say leave the subcombines in for those of us who want to make them, make it so we as crafters have the option of taking the new 'easier' For those with beavis and butthead intellects) route or the old fashioned and a bit more challanging method.

What chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

If you mean to say that somehow your pristine items are better than anyone else's pristine items, then you have no experience with EQ2 crafting and you're whining for the sake of whining.

If you mean to say that player crafted items are getting nerfed in LU24, then you are correct. But then again, player crafted gear has always been the poor cousin to common looted and quested gear.

Message Edited by Raveller on 06-13-2006 08:49 AM

ornack · 06-13-2006, 07:49 PM

I, too, am part of the "subcombines suck [Removed for Content]" contingent.

After reading a few posts, I realize that my input is going to be instantly discounted by most as I have only been playing the game for 2 mos. I was not around for "walking up of the hills both ways" days of adventuring and TS'ing. That being said... this is my, a true newb, perspective...

"Quite a few people enjoyed the process of actually making each piece-the ink-the quill-the paper.... "

I agree. when I first started the game, I thought "Wow, this is pretty clever, so you have to make everything... each component! Very realistic. I likes"

Two months in, now I think "Wow, this eff'n sux, so you have to make everything... each component! Too realistic. Far too much work for something I'm paying *real* money for"

Enter CraftingBots - While I refuse to use one myself because I'm a cheap [Removed for Content], with the umpteen subs that must be created, if one were offered for free I might have to reconsider. Thank gawd for LU#24... now I no longer have to be tempted.

"Crafting is pathetically easy"

Agreed, which contributes to the boring factor. Making subcombines might be fun if it were challenging. I can honestly say I've never dozed during an Adventure... but cannot say the same re: TS'ing.

"want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE"

If I had a job where I was making 10x more than what I was worth, I'd complain if I got a severe pay-cut... regardless of how justifiable it was.

Again, Newb perspective... but not having a level 70 toon to feed me plat for gear and spell upgrades, the current economy is completly jacked and is very evident with the amounts TS'ers are able to charge for their wares. Tradeskilling pays much better than Adventuring. A Sage being to charge 15gp for a Tier 4 Adept III... only if you have the rare? A Jeweler being able to charge over a plat for a lvl 40 ring? (realizing prices vary) Playing the game the way it's designed to be played (i.e. not farming named and/or instances, completeing quests in timely manner, doing the long fed-ex HQs) There's no way I could make that in a night with a group and sho-nuff not gonna get there soloing. I would love to have a utility that shows how much coin has flowed through my char, b/c I would argue that I've only made about 2p in total since starting 2 months ago.

Vorlak · 06-13-2006, 08:13 PM

I am not a tradeskiller by anymeans, I am an adventure but from my perspective the OP is correct this is going to screw up the market.

Why dont people tradeskill now, because the subcombines take forever. Removing them will cause people to make more items on the market bringing down the prices. This might seem like a good thing to some but bad for others. In either case without the subcombines I will be making my tailor and sage so I no longer need to pay for those services.

I dont know if its a nerf, but it definitly makes bot/macroing alot easier.

Sony really should have just made it to where you could make stacks of 5, 10, 15, 20 from raws refines, and 5 stacks per subcomine. All this patch does is make the world of everquest2 more in the line of everquest1 in reguard to tradeskills except we dont get to carry around a tailorkit (yet)

Hukklebuk · 06-13-2006, 08:36 PM

Caswydian wrote:
Crafting is pathetically easy, with our without subcombines. Crafting consists of pressing one or two buttons over and over again for hours on end. There is virutally no skill involved. As a crafter, I have 3 total abilities I use, ever. As an adventurer, I have over 30 that I use for different situations.

it's nearly the same now as it was in EQ1, except it's not portable and you still have to counter 3 things... /shrughardest thing about tailoring in EQ1 was farming the [Removed for Content] silks......hardest thing here is going to be harvesting the [Removed for Content] roots....

Rast · 06-13-2006, 08:57 PM

The real issue isn't subs vs no subs... I admit that the no subs has a distinct advantange expecially in regards to lower tier creation and simplicity. But there is a price paid for that simplicity and it is one I didn't want to see us paid, but people kept shouting, be quiet or argue about the reitemization...

The problem being is, they are connected. The Devs apparent dislike of crafter, the simplification into a sideline and the nerfing of most, if not all products either by terms of true nerfs (making an item weaker) or by psuedo nerfs (making all the drop items around the item better). There is only one crafting profession that escapes this and that is the provie who has no rares to start with and has a natural advantage in that very few quests give food and it doesn't drop as loot.

We are getting nerfed, and the sad thing is people can't or refuse to see why. We aren't wanted. We just dig in the dirt. We take no risks. They are all just greedy profiteers. All you do is press buttons. All of these have been slurs used against us by players and by developers. They blame crafters for rare goods being so expensive, but then set their rare prices though the roof forcing us to charge that, and yet it is our fault. We don't go 'kill' everything in sight, so therefore we have no risk... Tell that to the poor soul trying to harvest T7 rares in his underwear because he knows his is going to die 30 times. We just dig in the dirt... That one has kept me ticked ever since I heard it... Yes and magically we get rares every bloody time we do it, NOT! All we do is press buttons... and all the raider does is press buttons too, that is all ANY of us do. I can tell you right now, the most complex toon I've ever played is a ranger, but even that strategy can be boiled down to a sequence of button presses. As can the Paladin, the Guardian, the Monk, Any Scout, Fighter or Mage... The only class that has to really think is the healers and that is because their job is the only unscripted one.

It just disgusts me really... I'm already looking at losing two members of my guild over various nerfs in this LU... Several others are talking about leaving as well...

This game had huge potential... Had the ability to become a game I could have probably enjoyed for a very, very long time even with the clumsy graphics and poorly designed zones. It had the potential of being a game where adventurers and crafters could exist side by side, both play styles being supported, but that wasn't acceptable to certain play styles who wanted the instant gratification or the me now syndrome. I am someone who wouldn't care if I could only physically craft 3-5 things a WEEK and couldn't adventure with that character at all.

Why, tell me, does crafting HAVE to be a sideline? Why does everyone out there discount that crafters are those who CHOOSE to play a game a certain way. If I wanted to adventure more, then I would build bloody adventurers. I like to craft, and specifically craft things that are useful to the game... Unfortunately, that is being taken away from me and anyone else who enjoys this underappreciated and often critized playstyle.

I hope you all are happy, because many of us are not.

Raveller · 06-13-2006, 08:58 PM

Vorlak wrote:

I am not a tradeskiller by anymeans, I am an adventure but from my perspective the OP is correct this is going to screw up the market.

Why dont people tradeskill now, because the subcombines take forever. Removing them will cause people to make more items on the market bringing down the prices. This might seem like a good thing to some but bad for others. In either case without the subcombines I will be making my tailor and sage so I no longer need to pay for those services.

I dont know if its a nerf, but it definitly makes bot/macroing alot easier.

Sony really should have just made it to where you could make stacks of 5, 10, 15, 20 from raws refines, and 5 stacks per subcomine. All this patch does is make the world of everquest2 more in the line of everquest1 in reguard to tradeskills except we dont get to carry around a tailorkit (yet)

The market will not get flooded, except by players like myself who will be giddy at not have to suffer through the mindless factory-drone work of making subs. Even we won't flood the market, but just increase production beyond our personal needs. The net effect will be that, with any luck, items will sell at a tier appropriate price instead of being jacked out of reality. The only people who are complaining about possible market flooding are those who price gouging anyway.

There may be a short term increase in player crafted goods in T1 or even T2, but for the most part that will be players experimenting with the new crafting system. It still takes time to level up a crafter and most players just won't take the time to do so.

Don't panic, the sky is not falling.

Raveller · 06-13-2006, 09:01 PM

Raston wrote:

They blame crafters for rare goods being so expensive, but then set their rare prices though the roof forcing us to charge that, and yet it is our fault.

Great, big, fat hole in your arguement there. As a crafter, you should never, under any circumstances, provide the rare raw to your customer. Always, always, always require your customer to supply his own rare raw. That way, you only have to charge for your skill, and you are immune to the market prices of rares.

MRRX · 06-13-2006, 09:01 PM

Raston wrote:

We also get a sell to vendor nerf, where all you will get is the fuel costs back. Not the small profit (and I do mean small) we get now for vendoring all the crap we make

Yikes. There goes the last thing my alchemist actually "sold". If by some miracle I can actually broker common potions after the update, I may progress, otherwise level 44 will be my alkie's cap.

That change just makes no sense at all.

MrrX's Character Journal

Rast · 06-13-2006, 09:03 PM

I agree, the market will not get flooded with weapons or armor because after the nerf, they are going to be completely worthless and unsellable. You will not see an increase in appIV skills, because again, they are worthless.

You might see more rares in various teirs being sold, but again, since they are relatively worthless compared to the cost of the rares involved, you likely will not even see that.

This LU will only cause crafted goods to become less valuable and even if it does flood the market, no one will care other than having to weed though more trash to find the ledgendary/fabled gear to buy... oh wait, they don't even have to do that, they can simply filter it out.

06-13-2006, 12:43 AM	#3
valkyrja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 559	Maroger wrote: Crafting is really being nerfed out of existence in this LU24. One of the things that made crafting specifal was the sub combines -- it stopped people from flooding the market with junk as they wouldn't waste the time on it. Now everything we make will be totally worthless. We can't even make a few silver from selling to an NPC. I really would like to know how developers could ever think they were improving the game when all they are doing is dealing a death of a thousand cuts. The obviously want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE. We can no longer make legendary items. That is reserved for adventuring. Why the push for adventurers??? People who craft pay the same money as adventurers to play this game, why does the whole game have to be geared to adventurers.When you use the "I pay as much as they do" argument, you immediately lose any legit argument you may have. I would like to see some of the crafting changes ROLLED BACK. I could see maybe puting the WORTS on NPC vendors -- but I can't see doing away with the subcombines. True crafters really like them.What is a true crafter? I have 3 crafting toons over level 50 and I hate subs. I can't wait for the changes to take place, as now when someone asks me to make them some low level stuff I won't turn them down because I don't want to waste time making all the subs. I think developerment should give some serious thought to NOT IMPLEMENTING all the crafting changes. I really think people need to calm down about this. Sure some new people will begin crafting when the changes come up, but the bulk of them will still not like the new system and after a short while, will stop crafting. So there might be a short influx in the market, but it will go back to normal. Message Edited by sparql on 06-12-2006 03:43 PM __________________

06-13-2006, 12:49 AM	#4
Krieg Server: Everfrost Guild: Socii Equitis Rank: Eques Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 74	Dead horse. Beaten and bloody. __________________

06-13-2006, 02:26 AM	#5
Finora Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,423	Double post opps. Message Edited by Calendri on 06-12-200606:29 PM Message Edited by Calendri on 06-12-2006 06:30 PM __________________ Lady Finora Mystic of Prism Everfrost(Grobb) Finora of Valiant Knights Test Server

06-13-2006, 02:26 AM	#6
Finora Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,423	Can we say bit of an overreaction? I've 3 lvl 70 crafters, a couple 40-50s, and a multitude of teens and 20s. I spend most of my time crafting and harvesting so I can craft. I am looking forward to subs being gone. I didn't like the idea at first (because of how t7 was in the begining of KOS beta) but they improved upon it and now it will work out well in my opinion. The people who hate TS ing will still hate TSing. It will still take a lot of time (perhaps even more ) to level up. Some of the broker crafters will likely lose some money because they won't be able to get away with charging 4 pp for something that costs under 4 gold to combine if you find your own rare and less than 1.5 pp if you buy one. The rest of us might see more business as the combines won't take as long so we will be able to do combine while you wait business instead of mostly mail order. I know my sage is making even more money these days with t7 combines being so fast. I'm able to make 5 spells in the time it used to take me to make one. Don't knock the changes before you really give them a chance. Message Edited by Calendri on 06-12-2006 06:29 PM __________________ Lady Finora Mystic of Prism Everfrost(Grobb) Finora of Valiant Knights Test Server

06-13-2006, 03:15 AM	#9
Shadus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 142	Shrug, the crafting changes are about the only thing in LU24 i do like. __________________ Shadus

06-13-2006, 12:28 AM	#1
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	Crafting is really being nerfed out of existence in this LU24. One of the things that made crafting specifal was the sub combines -- it stopped people from flooding the market with junk as they wouldn't waste the time on it. Now everything we make will be totally worthless. We can't even make a few silver from selling to an NPC. I really would like to know how developers could ever think they were improving the game when all they are doing is dealing a death of a thousand cuts. The obviously want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE. We can no longer make legendary items. That is reserved for adventuring. Why the push for adventurers??? People who craft pay the same money as adventurers to play this game, why does the whole game have to be geared to adventurers. I would like to see some of the crafting changes ROLLED BACK. I could see maybe puting the WORTS on NPC vendors -- but I can't see doing away with the subcombines. True crafters really like them. I think developerment should give some serious thought to NOT IMPLEMENTING all the crafting changes.

06-13-2006, 12:32 AM	#2
Bayler_x General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 415	Maroger wrote: ... The obviously want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE. We can no longer make legendary items. That is reserved for adventuring. ... You forgot to mention the part about them sitting in their smoking jackets at SOE headquarters, cackling and twisting the ends of their mustaches between their fingers. __________________ Lokimor Human Coercer / Sage Venekor

06-13-2006, 02:46 AM	#7
BWLeeEllison Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 358	It's always refreshing to see what new heights idiocy can acheive. Crafting isn't being nerfed out of existance. It is being given new life. With subcombines going away, the "casual" crafter now has a chance to REALLY get into making things, opening up the market to competition from all sides. It could be this is where most of the angst is coming from, in regards to major craftsmen in the game to date. Let us not forget competition is good for business, so please stop the whining now. Additionally, those who enjoy crafting will now be able to come out of the shops and actually experience some of the world's rich and diverse content. Mayhaps Sony should offer sunglasses for those who spend so much time in the dungeons called crafting instances, so they don't go blind upon coming into the light for a change. There are plenty of adventurers who could use the assistance of those who constantly chain themselves to a work bench. The changes to harvesting and crafting will only make it so that you do not have to suffer financial [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at the hands of ruthless crafters/brokers who currently hoard resources and drive prices up. I personally can't wait to take advantage of the white sales that will spring up on all servers as of Wednesday 8P. If you are harvesting now, you should stop. If you are tradeskilling now, you should stop. Get out and enjoy the game for a couple of days then go back to your harvesting and skilling when the PITA factors in both activities have been removed. RAGE ON Kidknie Rippender of Nagafen Kidknee Rippender of Crushbone

06-13-2006, 03:11 AM	#8
Pumarah Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	Think I'll have to disagree in part her with the part about the sub-combines do they make it take longer, yes it does, but my real issue here is what is being offered in its place is the item at third level of quality, where as we for the most part as crafters willing to do that extra work can take it to the fourth/top level and that can be the little extra difference between getting a third or top quality item created, whethers it's armor and weapos, woodworking items, alchemy, scrolls and food/drink. I would have to say leave the subcombines in for those of us who want to make them, make it so we as crafters have the option of taking the new 'easier' For those with beavis and butthead intellects) route or the old fashioned and a bit more challanging method.

06-13-2006, 06:13 AM	#10
Impost Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Pumarah wrote: Think I'll have to disagree in part her with the part about the sub-combines do they make it take longer, yes it does, but my real issue here is what is being offered in its place is the item at third level of quality, where as we for the most part as crafters willing to do that extra work can take it to the fourth/top level and that can be the little extra difference between getting a third or top quality item created, whethers it's armor and weapos, woodworking items, alchemy, scrolls and food/drink. I would have to say leave the subcombines in for those of us who want to make them, make it so we as crafters have the option of taking the new 'easier' For those with beavis and butthead intellects) route or the old fashioned and a bit more challanging method. I love these kind of comments. I have been playing this game since day one. I'm not a dedicated crafter or adventure. I'm more of the ADHD kinda player. Just do whatever gets my attention at that moment. But to call someone stupid or as u put it "Beavis and butthead intellects" for wanting to get more faster in the same about of time just goes to show ur lack on intellect. Every successful business in the world was built on the foundation of someone who found a way to do it faster and better. So I'm all for letting u do it the old way. When u come back and post in a month "Cry i can't make any money cause the market is flooded, ppl have twice as much stuff on there as me." I will just laugh at u.

06-13-2006, 06:28 AM	#11
MadLordOfMilk Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NY Posts: 406	Imposter wrote: ...as u put it "Beavis and butthead intellects" for wanting to get more faster in the same about of time just goes to show ur lack on intellect. Every... Just a side-note, you contradicted yourself there :smileyhappy:

06-13-2006, 01:29 PM	#12
redlance68 Tester Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36	Actually i feel this LU is a boon to crafting as a whole.. yeah some gear is getting downgraded. especially hard hit will be armor and weapons. However, I feel the loss of subcombines is AWESOME! I craft for my guilies and myself. I dont think that a legendary rock/root/gem should be so high on the scale either.. they are relatively easy to get. One thing that people are whining about is it took alot of mining or harvesting or whatever to get such and such. Well this live update makes it easier to get that. So we have simplified crafting check. easier harvesting check. harvesting skill helps check. harvesting tools to reduce time spent check. downgrade of some things to compensate how rediculously easy harvest is gonna be check. more legendaries in market. most probably. more desperately needed fighter loams.. god i hope so for the fighters. For me this update means 1. my level 70 crafters will be used more but spend less time doing it. I get to play in the game more. No more people being soaked as bad.. (still will be soaked free market and at all) and crafted gear will be relegated as gear to wear till you earn better set. but still gear that has a purpose. As for the doom and gloom peeps.. well you can feel doom and gloom. but people actually do buy apprentice spells.. and they upgrade later.. they will buy common crafted armor. just upgrade.. and they will buy a cheap legendary if thier whim hits.. and get an armor made.. but there is always better.

06-13-2006, 03:48 PM	#13
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	In many ways I agree with the OP here. LU 24 will herald a downward slide in crafting unless major modifications are made. In LU24 we lose subcombines, but to compensate for the 'simplicity' and 'speed' of creation we also get a reitemization nerf which really hurts anyone crafting weapons or armor. We also get a sell to vendor nerf, where all you will get is the fuel costs back. Not the small profit (and I do mean small) we get now for vendoring all the crap we make to be able to make the rares, not that rares will be worth making after the LU. This isn't the death knell of crafting, but it is certainly getting a crudgel upside the head and the burlap sack (which was ironically made by crafters) is about to be put over their heads for easy transport. They have truly taken it from a playstyle to a sideline, and that make me sad. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

06-13-2006, 04:11 PM	#14
sAs-Bartleby Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 197	BWLeeEllison schrieb: It's always refreshing to see what new heights idiocy can acheive. Crafting isn't being nerfed out of existance. It is being given new life. With subcombines going away, the "casual" crafter now has a chance to REALLY get into making things, opening up the market to competition from all sides. It could be this is where most of the angst is coming from, in regards to major craftsmen in the game to date. Let us not forget competition is good for business, so please stop the whining now. Additionally, those who enjoy crafting will now be able to come out of the shops and actually experience some of the world's rich and diverse content. Mayhaps Sony should offer sunglasses for those who spend so much time in the dungeons called crafting instances, so they don't go blind upon coming into the light for a change. There are plenty of adventurers who could use the assistance of those who constantly chain themselves to a work bench. The changes to harvesting and crafting will only make it so that you do not have to suffer financial [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at the hands of ruthless crafters/brokers who currently hoard resources and drive prices up. I personally can't wait to take advantage of the white sales that will spring up on all servers as of Wednesday 8P. If you are harvesting now, you should stop. If you are tradeskilling now, you should stop. Get out and enjoy the game for a couple of days then go back to your harvesting and skilling when the PITA factors in both activities have been removed. RAGE ON Kidknie Rippender of Nagafen Kidknee Rippender of Crushbone you said all which is needed. The summary is good. But this is the mistake. SOE announced that the players may decide wether they want to do tradeskill or adventuring and that both ways will be interessting to do. you said correctly that crafting is now for casuals and that the "real" crafters have to go out to find something interessting. My summary is: it is a kick for all old crafters and a bonus to all hardcore adventurers. It is because of the whining off the masses that they had to pay for crafted stuff. Like the one who ask me to craft him a t6 rare buckler with imbue. He ask me if the lambent was in the price of 15 gold because he thoughts this was too expensive. My result after LU24 will be, that i will only craft for friends. Everybody else i will tell to do it himeself.

06-13-2006, 04:32 PM	#15
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	I know for me, I am simply looking at getting my crafters into their 60s and then probably walking away... __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

06-13-2006, 05:35 PM	#16
SwissArmySh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 71	I'm one of the "Crafting drives me nuts with the amount of subcombines" crowd. I for one will be happy to see the subcombines go, I might actualy put the time and effort in to level up past lvl 30 without wanting to strangle myself.

06-13-2006, 06:05 PM	#17
Jerr General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 134	Looks like the WOW(instant gratification) crowd is out in force. From the very beginning SOE has started crafting down that slippery slope of making it easier for those not willing to take the time and effort. You love the no sub-combines because now it fits your "get it on demand" lifestyle. Face it-a lot of people of come to expect things right away and are unwilling and lose interest if something takes a time commitment. The reason I liked crafting was because it too longer and you actually had to make the various pieces a real craftsman would have to make in order to fashion an item. Now we have entered the arena of Harry Potter potions class--a rock-a piece of wood-a gem and some fuel-throw it all into the cauldron and viola--a apell pops out. Quite a few people enjoyed the process of actually making each piece-the ink-the quill-the paper.... and seeing your crafting come actually somewhat mimick how it is actually done in real life. For you flamers I said "somewhat" Now the ADHD crowd gets to throw it all into one part-say a magic word-and out pops a spell..or whatever your crafting. Just sad SOE is taking the complexity and effort out of this game. I don't want another WOW-I picked EQ2 specifically because its harder. Sad, Jerril

06-13-2006, 06:14 PM	#18
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	I know Jerril, been trying to fight it for a while now, but it was a lost cause then, it is a lost cause now. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

06-13-2006, 07:14 PM	#19
Hukklebuk Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 229	I thought I was going to hate the change coming in LU24, so I broke out a character I had sitting on Test for crafting purposes and I like it a lot better.I harvested and adventured for about 8 hours and got to lvl 18 adventure... hit the crafting station and made lvl 18 sage in about 2 hours. (no not all in one day). The only thing I did was make the spells I needed.. I in no way crafted everything in the recipe books.Now keep in mind on Test there is a permanent bonus to XP of both types, and the character had full vitatlity from sitting around on test under a name and only a newbie island log in.I think folks will be making things they would avoid in the past, be more willing to help others out accross all tiers, and overall I think it will be more enjoyable.And believe me I was a staunch supporter and flag waver for not changing the crafting process or if they did to simply allow stacks to be made. After seeing it and using it, I like it...There are a few minor issues with names of items etc.. but a job well done I think. __________________ Lost............

06-13-2006, 07:18 PM	#20
Terabethia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 256	Jerril wrote: Just sad SOE is taking the complexity and effort out of this game. I don't want another WOW-I picked EQ2 specifically because its harder. Sad, Jerril What's sad is, the game you picked is not the most popular of them. Wow has 3 times, if not more, players than EQ2. There are several reasons behind this, but either way, SoE is missing out of a lot of customers who are picking WoW instead of EQ2. One huge factor that people like about WoW is that it is, for lack of a better word, easier. You do not have to spend as much time in the game to get to the end, and it is less effort there to be "uber". Other factor's include less expensive hareware requirements which allow more people to be able to afford to play, their outstanding and award-winning customer service, and the long following that WarCraft has in general. Don't get me wrong, I love EQ2 and I got bored of WoW after 4 days (co-workers made me try it out! :smileytongue: ). But in the end, SoE is running a business, and it is very clear right now that the majority of MMO players, EQ2 ones included, want it this way. Sadly, you are in the minority. Note: To the person here who mentioned it, and all the others that have said it, there is no way to make it so that you can craft combines and everyone else can choose the "easy" way. That would require making and creating two sets of recipies for everything, as well as maintaining those recipies. And don't get me started on the balance issue of it.

06-13-2006, 07:39 PM	#21
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Crafting is pathetically easy, with our without subcombines. Crafting consists of pressing one or two buttons over and over again for hours on end. There is virutally no skill involved. As a crafter, I have 3 total abilities I use, ever. As an adventurer, I have over 30 that I use for different situations. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

06-13-2006, 07:48 PM	#22
Raveller Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 483	Pumarah wrote: Think I'll have to disagree in part her with the part about the sub-combines do they make it take longer, yes it does, but my real issue here is what is being offered in its place is the item at third level of quality, where as we for the most part as crafters willing to do that extra work can take it to the fourth/top level and that can be the little extra difference between getting a third or top quality item created, whethers it's armor and weapos, woodworking items, alchemy, scrolls and food/drink. I would have to say leave the subcombines in for those of us who want to make them, make it so we as crafters have the option of taking the new 'easier' For those with beavis and butthead intellects) route or the old fashioned and a bit more challanging method. What chu talkin' 'bout, Willis? If you mean to say that somehow your pristine items are better than anyone else's pristine items, then you have no experience with EQ2 crafting and you're whining for the sake of whining. If you mean to say that player crafted items are getting nerfed in LU24, then you are correct. But then again, player crafted gear has always been the poor cousin to common looted and quested gear. Message Edited by Raveller on 06-13-2006 08:49 AM

06-13-2006, 07:49 PM	#23
ornack Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1	I, too, am part of the "subcombines suck [Removed for Content]" contingent. After reading a few posts, I realize that my input is going to be instantly discounted by most as I have only been playing the game for 2 mos. I was not around for "walking up of the hills both ways" days of adventuring and TS'ing. That being said... this is my, a true newb, perspective... "Quite a few people enjoyed the process of actually making each piece-the ink-the quill-the paper.... " I agree. when I first started the game, I thought "Wow, this is pretty clever, so you have to make everything... each component! Very realistic. I likes" Two months in, now I think "Wow, this eff'n sux, so you have to make everything... each component! Too realistic. Far too much work for something I'm paying real money for" Enter CraftingBots - While I refuse to use one myself because I'm a cheap [Removed for Content], with the umpteen subs that must be created, if one were offered for free I might have to reconsider. Thank gawd for LU#24... now I no longer have to be tempted. *"Crafting is pathetically easy"* Agreed, which contributes to the boring factor. Making subcombines might be fun if it were challenging. I can honestly say I've never dozed during an Adventure... but cannot say the same re: TS'ing. "want to kill crafting and makie sure it is unprofitable FOR EVERYONE" If I had a job where I was making 10x more than what I was worth, I'd complain if I got a severe pay-cut... regardless of how justifiable it was. Again, Newb perspective... but not having a level 70 toon to feed me plat for gear and spell upgrades, the current economy is completly jacked and is very evident with the amounts TS'ers are able to charge for their wares. Tradeskilling pays much better than Adventuring. A Sage being to charge 15gp for a Tier 4 Adept III... only if you have the rare? A Jeweler being able to charge over a plat for a lvl 40 ring? (realizing prices vary) Playing the game the way it's designed to be played (i.e. not farming named and/or instances, completeing quests in timely manner, doing the long fed-ex HQs) There's no way I could make that in a night with a group and sho-nuff not gonna get there soloing. I would love to have a utility that shows how much coin has flowed through my char, b/c I would argue that I've only made about 2p in total since starting 2 months ago.

06-13-2006, 08:13 PM	#24
Vorlak Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 293	I am not a tradeskiller by anymeans, I am an adventure but from my perspective the OP is correct this is going to screw up the market. Why dont people tradeskill now, because the subcombines take forever. Removing them will cause people to make more items on the market bringing down the prices. This might seem like a good thing to some but bad for others. In either case without the subcombines I will be making my tailor and sage so I no longer need to pay for those services. I dont know if its a nerf, but it definitly makes bot/macroing alot easier. Sony really should have just made it to where you could make stacks of 5, 10, 15, 20 from raws refines, and 5 stacks per subcomine. All this patch does is make the world of everquest2 more in the line of everquest1 in reguard to tradeskills except we dont get to carry around a tailorkit (yet)

06-13-2006, 08:36 PM	#25
Hukklebuk Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 229	Caswydian wrote: Crafting is pathetically easy, with our without subcombines. Crafting consists of pressing one or two buttons over and over again for hours on end. There is virutally no skill involved. As a crafter, I have 3 total abilities I use, ever. As an adventurer, I have over 30 that I use for different situations. it's nearly the same now as it was in EQ1, except it's not portable and you still have to counter 3 things... /shrughardest thing about tailoring in EQ1 was farming the [Removed for Content] silks......hardest thing here is going to be harvesting the [Removed for Content] roots.... __________________ Lost............

06-13-2006, 08:57 PM	#26
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	The real issue isn't subs vs no subs... I admit that the no subs has a distinct advantange expecially in regards to lower tier creation and simplicity. But there is a price paid for that simplicity and it is one I didn't want to see us paid, but people kept shouting, be quiet or argue about the reitemization... The problem being is, they are connected. The Devs apparent dislike of crafter, the simplification into a sideline and the nerfing of most, if not all products either by terms of true nerfs (making an item weaker) or by psuedo nerfs (making all the drop items around the item better). There is only one crafting profession that escapes this and that is the provie who has no rares to start with and has a natural advantage in that very few quests give food and it doesn't drop as loot. We are getting nerfed, and the sad thing is people can't or refuse to see why. We aren't wanted. We just dig in the dirt. We take no risks. They are all just greedy profiteers. All you do is press buttons. All of these have been slurs used against us by players and by developers. They blame crafters for rare goods being so expensive, but then set their rare prices though the roof forcing us to charge that, and yet it is our fault. We don't go 'kill' everything in sight, so therefore we have no risk... Tell that to the poor soul trying to harvest T7 rares in his underwear because he knows his is going to die 30 times. We just dig in the dirt... That one has kept me ticked ever since I heard it... Yes and magically we get rares every bloody time we do it, NOT! All we do is press buttons... and all the raider does is press buttons too, that is all ANY of us do. I can tell you right now, the most complex toon I've ever played is a ranger, but even that strategy can be boiled down to a sequence of button presses. As can the Paladin, the Guardian, the Monk, Any Scout, Fighter or Mage... The only class that has to really think is the healers and that is because their job is the only unscripted one. It just disgusts me really... I'm already looking at losing two members of my guild over various nerfs in this LU... Several others are talking about leaving as well... This game had huge potential... Had the ability to become a game I could have probably enjoyed for a very, very long time even with the clumsy graphics and poorly designed zones. It had the potential of being a game where adventurers and crafters could exist side by side, both play styles being supported, but that wasn't acceptable to certain play styles who wanted the instant gratification or the me now syndrome. I am someone who wouldn't care if I could only physically craft 3-5 things a WEEK and couldn't adventure with that character at all. Why, tell me, does crafting HAVE to be a sideline? Why does everyone out there discount that crafters are those who CHOOSE to play a game a certain way. If I wanted to adventure more, then I would build bloody adventurers. I like to craft, and specifically craft things that are useful to the game... Unfortunately, that is being taken away from me and anyone else who enjoys this underappreciated and often critized playstyle. I hope you all are happy, because many of us are not. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)

06-13-2006, 08:58 PM	#27
Raveller Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 483	Vorlak wrote: I am not a tradeskiller by anymeans, I am an adventure but from my perspective the OP is correct this is going to screw up the market. Why dont people tradeskill now, because the subcombines take forever. Removing them will cause people to make more items on the market bringing down the prices. This might seem like a good thing to some but bad for others. In either case without the subcombines I will be making my tailor and sage so I no longer need to pay for those services. I dont know if its a nerf, but it definitly makes bot/macroing alot easier. Sony really should have just made it to where you could make stacks of 5, 10, 15, 20 from raws refines, and 5 stacks per subcomine. All this patch does is make the world of everquest2 more in the line of everquest1 in reguard to tradeskills except we dont get to carry around a tailorkit (yet) The market will not get flooded, except by players like myself who will be giddy at not have to suffer through the mindless factory-drone work of making subs. Even we won't flood the market, but just increase production beyond our personal needs. The net effect will be that, with any luck, items will sell at a tier appropriate price instead of being jacked out of reality. The only people who are complaining about possible market flooding are those who price gouging anyway. There may be a short term increase in player crafted goods in T1 or even T2, but for the most part that will be players experimenting with the new crafting system. It still takes time to level up a crafter and most players just won't take the time to do so. Don't panic, the sky is not falling.

06-13-2006, 09:01 PM	#28
Raveller Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 483	Raston wrote: They blame crafters for rare goods being so expensive, but then set their rare prices though the roof forcing us to charge that, and yet it is our fault. Great, big, fat hole in your arguement there. As a crafter, you should never, under any circumstances, provide the rare raw to your customer. Always, always, always require your customer to supply his own rare raw. That way, you only have to charge for your skill, and you are immune to the market prices of rares.

06-13-2006, 09:01 PM	#29
MRRX Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 70	Raston wrote: We also get a sell to vendor nerf, where all you will get is the fuel costs back. Not the small profit (and I do mean small) we get now for vendoring all the crap we make Yikes. There goes the last thing my alchemist actually "sold". If by some miracle I can actually broker common potions after the update, I may progress, otherwise level 44 will be my alkie's cap. That change just makes no sense at all. MrrX's Character Journal

06-13-2006, 09:03 PM	#30
Rast General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,805	I agree, the market will not get flooded with weapons or armor because after the nerf, they are going to be completely worthless and unsellable. You will not see an increase in appIV skills, because again, they are worthless. You might see more rares in various teirs being sold, but again, since they are relatively worthless compared to the cost of the rares involved, you likely will not even see that. This LU will only cause crafted goods to become less valuable and even if it does flood the market, no one will care other than having to weed though more trash to find the ledgendary/fabled gear to buy... oh wait, they don't even have to do that, they can simply filter it out. __________________ Ancient Council Jalathan T'Varik (90 Paladin) Rhapsodee Windsong (90 Troubador) Garaok (90 Brigand) Tytherian (90 Templar) Shaydroth (51 Illusionist) Raston Roderick (28 Assassin) Saphyrria (21 Warlock) Concordia Discors Jalathe Stoneshield (34 Guardian)