Wouldn't a neutral class running the betrayal quest keep their original class?

Nerwen · 01-30-2006, 05:14 PM

I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen

Gaj · 01-30-2006, 05:21 PM

I guess in theory a neutral class would remain the same class.

So if you wanted to be a Dark elf Warden etc living in Qeynos that would be no problem. The class change would only affect those who were betraying to a city where their current class is no longer allowed.

Christofurious · 01-30-2006, 05:53 PM

Yes that should be the way it works. But I think there may be people that are unhappy with their subclass that are looking (hoping) for the betrayal to be an opportunity to change to the "other" subclass.

Magu · 01-31-2006, 02:32 AM

Edit; n/m

Message Edited by Magus` on 01-30-200601:43 PM

Svartmane · 01-31-2006, 02:42 AM

Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen

To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers.

Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-30-200601:52 PM

Hamen · 01-31-2006, 02:50 AM

Svartmane wrote:
Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen
To put it simply, you will have the choice. While you will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers.

Ok I don't mean to sound dense here, but I want to make sure I got this straight before I share with guildies ... does this mean that Necros can live in Qeynos or Rangers in Freeport ... just as examples?

Magu · 01-31-2006, 02:51 AM

NO.You will NEVER be able to break the good/evil class lines.What the dev post says is that NEUTRAL branches can choose to change.So a dirge COULD change to a troubador, but they don't have to.A necro betraying F->Q *will* change to a conjuror.

Gravewolf · 01-31-2006, 02:51 AM

No, they are only referring to Neutral classes (the ones that you can be in either city, i.e. Wizard/Warlock)

ArivenGemini · 01-31-2006, 04:52 AM

Svartmane wrote:
Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen
To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers.

So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get?

Sirlutt · 01-31-2006, 05:03 AM

Svartmane wrote:
Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen
To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers.
Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-30-200601:52 PM

In other news.. sony fixes the much maligned and nerf'd Guardian Class by allowing them to respec as Berzerks .. LOLZerkers FTW !

Magu · 01-31-2006, 05:04 AM

Ariven wrote:
So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get?

Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades?

ArivenGemini · 01-31-2006, 06:30 AM

Magus` wrote:
Ariven wrote:
So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get?
Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades?

so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city..

Za · 01-31-2006, 06:57 AM

Ariven wrote:
Magus` wrote:
Ariven wrote:
So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get?
Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades?
so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city..

What extra do they get? The one time opportunity to change from one neutral subclass to its alter ego class? If you want to do the quest you can!This only affects:Troubador/DirgeWizard/WarlockFury/WardenGuardian/BerzerkerIf you want to do the quest and loose all your spell upgrades then go for it. If you're happy in your city, then be happy!

HolyAvengerOne · 01-31-2006, 08:29 AM

Svartmane wrote:
Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen
To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers.
Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-30-200601:52 PM

Can't wait to see how that option will be done in-game. Might be interesting to try SMILEY

ArivenGemini · 01-31-2006, 09:26 AM

Zald wrote:
Ariven wrote:
Magus` wrote:
Ariven wrote:
So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get?
Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades?
so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city..
What extra do they get? The one time opportunity to change from one neutral subclass to its alter ego class? If you want to do the quest you can!

the extra of being able to choose to swap classes that was stated as not in the cards as an option that we would get, and something that you cannot get now. I can understand the forced change for citybound classes, but the neutrals dont need it. If the devs are insistant upon allowing this change, then they should add in a quest, just as hard as the betrayal, that allows anyone a onetime shot to change classes without forcing a city change...

Svartmane · 01-31-2006, 09:33 AM

Ariven wrote:
Zald wrote:
Ariven wrote:
Magus` wrote:
Ariven wrote:
So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get?
Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades?
so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city..
What extra do they get? The one time opportunity to change from one neutral subclass to its alter ego class? If you want to do the quest you can!
the extra of being able to choose to swap classes that was stated as not in the cards as an option that we would get, and something that you cannot get now. I can understand the forced change for citybound classes, but the neutrals dont need it. If the devs are insistant upon allowing this change, then they should add in a quest, just as hard as the betrayal, that allows anyone a onetime shot to change classes without forcing a city change...

When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however.

Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-31-200601:09 PM

Calthine · 01-31-2006, 09:40 AM

Svartmane wrote:When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however.

I assume that's a one-shot quest... so I couldn't decide to change my main to a Dirge, then change my mind back to Troubador, then change my mind again 'cause Dirge was cooler, then change my mind...

(woman's perogative, ya know)

Seiden · 01-31-2006, 10:38 AM

I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling.

Miracole · 01-31-2006, 12:16 PM

Seiden wrote:I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling.

you don't make any sense whatsoever.

HolyAvengerOne · 01-31-2006, 01:04 PM

Miracole wrote:
Seiden wrote:I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling.
you don't make any sense whatsoever.

I concur.At any rate, the class-changing / betrayal quest will stll have a level limit to complete it, as it always had.So I wouldn't fear what I think you just tried to explain.

Magu · 01-31-2006, 01:29 PM

No it won't.Once they revamp betrayal, it will work at any level, as they've clearly stated before.

MrDiz · 01-31-2006, 03:41 PM

Miracole wrote:
Seiden wrote:I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling.
you don't make any sense whatsoever.

What he is saying is that some classes are better at endgame, and some are better 1-59 grinding. eg. classA lvls fast but is not so hot in endgame raiding. Class B lvls slowly but is good in the endgame. Now the most effective way to do this is to play classA to 60, then switch. This will annoy the people who did class B the hard way SMILEY

SevrothVali · 01-31-2006, 04:24 PM

Svartmane wrote:
When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however.

I'll be cancelling my account. I don't like the direction this game is heading in. Never thought i'd see the day where they let you change your CLASS in an mmorpg. I'm sure a race change quest will be coming in the future now too. Along with appearance changes, what you choose at character creation will no longer mean anything.I'm sure future mmorpgs will eventually follow this also, when players start whining that "well X game has the feature, why not this one!" (cause you know, every mmorpg has to have the same features for some reason). So I predict class and race change abilities in alot of future mmorpgs.

Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:25 AM

Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:26 AM

MrDiz · 01-31-2006, 05:02 PM

SevrothValiba wrote:
Svartmane wrote:
When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however.
I'll be cancelling my account. I don't like the direction this game is heading in. Never thought i'd see the day where they let you change your CLASS in an mmorpg. I'm sure a race change quest will be coming in the future now too. Along with appearance changes, what you choose at character creation will no longer mean anything.I'm sure future mmorpgs will eventually follow this also, when players start whining that "well X game has the feature, why not this one!" (cause you know, every mmorpg has to have the same features for some reason). So I predict class and race change abilities in alot of future mmorpgs.
Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:25 AM
Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:26 AM

Actually I predict this will be the last such game that does this. Youre right tho, EQ2 has gotten ridiculous. Its a different game each month so you have different toons. They tried to take a certain genre of game and make it 'genreless' so as maximise number of players. Instead of some people liking it, now we all equally dont like it SMILEY

VampireWookie · 01-31-2006, 05:51 PM

Svartmane wrote:When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however.

I am a huge fan of this game, but this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Please let this consideration find it's way to the trash bin.

Ada · 01-31-2006, 06:33 PM

I can see with a betrayal, if your class is not supported in your new city, you're forced to change to the complimenting class (i.e. bruiser -> monk). However, please don't allow class neutral class changes, with or without betrayal. If you betray and your class is still supported, you should stay as that class. Please don't add any other quests or mechanics to allow class changes.

EvilErudite · 01-31-2006, 06:35 PM

Magus` wrote:No it won't.Once they revamp betrayal, it will work at any level, as they've clearly stated before.

Better watch out, they'll probably change their minds and people will bash you cause you stated it as fact....:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

MrDiz · 01-31-2006, 06:35 PM

VampireWookie wrote:
Svartmane wrote:When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however.
I am a huge fan of this game, but this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Please let this consideration find it's way to the trash bin.

Well it is stupid ... and it isnt ... all at the same time. In LU13 they effectively rewrote the game and the classes. This is just doing it again only with the players choice this time SMILEY

This game is not a slightly improved version of the game release over a year ago. Its a totally different game. Different classes, different game play.So the question is does it make more sense to pick a genre and style of game and then stick with it like eq1 or wow. Or is it best to radically shift your base on every whim of the verbal minority like eq2?

Anlari · 01-31-2006, 06:52 PM

The ability to change classes is going to be a huge disturbance in the game. Especialy if they keep their goal on letting you betray at any level and then rebetray as many times as you like. This is a very bad change that will further reduce the community in the game and dilute your choices to having even less consiquences and impact on the world. Huge mistake, its the one feature of that stupid matrix online game that keeps people from playing it.

ArivenGemini · 01-31-2006, 07:25 PM

Svartmane wrote:
Ariven wrote:
the extra of being able to choose to swap classes that was stated as not in the cards as an option that we would get, and something that you cannot get now. I can understand the forced change for citybound classes, but the neutrals dont need it. If the devs are insistant upon allowing this change, then they should add in a quest, just as hard as the betrayal, that allows anyone a onetime shot to change classes without forcing a city change...
When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however.

Excellent! I think this is a great compromise Svartmane.. While not an advocate of allowing changing of classes at all, This is much more balanced of an idea.. SMILEY

01-30-2006, 05:14 PM	#1
Nerwen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 173	I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen __________________

01-30-2006, 05:21 PM	#2
Gaj General Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 33	I guess in theory a neutral class would remain the same class. So if you wanted to be a Dark elf Warden etc living in Qeynos that would be no problem. The class change would only affect those who were betraying to a city where their current class is no longer allowed. __________________

01-31-2006, 02:42 AM	#5
Svartmane Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers. Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-30-200601:52 PM __________________ ______________________ Jesse Knapp Game Designer, EverQuest II

01-31-2006, 02:50 AM	#6
Hamen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	Svartmane wrote: Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen To put it simply, you will have the choice. While you will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers. Ok I don't mean to sound dense here, but I want to make sure I got this straight before I share with guildies ... does this mean that Necros can live in Qeynos or Rangers in Freeport ... just as examples?

01-31-2006, 04:52 AM	#9
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Svartmane wrote: Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers. So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get? __________________

01-30-2006, 05:53 PM	#3
Christofurious Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 24	Yes that should be the way it works. But I think there may be people that are unhappy with their subclass that are looking (hoping) for the betrayal to be an opportunity to change to the "other" subclass.

01-31-2006, 02:32 AM	#4
Magu Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,332	Edit; n/m Message Edited by Magus` on 01-30-200601:43 PM

01-31-2006, 02:51 AM	#7
Magu Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,332	NO.You will NEVER be able to break the good/evil class lines.What the dev post says is that NEUTRAL branches can choose to change.So a dirge COULD change to a troubador, but they don't have to.A necro betraying F->Q will change to a conjuror.

01-31-2006, 02:51 AM	#8
Gravewolf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 68	No, they are only referring to Neutral classes (the ones that you can be in either city, i.e. Wizard/Warlock)

01-31-2006, 05:03 AM	#10
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	Svartmane wrote: Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers. Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-30-200601:52 PM In other news.. sony fixes the much maligned and nerf'd Guardian Class by allowing them to respec as Berzerks .. LOLZerkers FTW ! __________________ I heart DE Broads

01-31-2006, 05:04 AM	#11
Magu Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,332	Ariven wrote: So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get? Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades?

01-31-2006, 06:30 AM	#12
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Magus` wrote: Ariven wrote: So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get? Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades? so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city.. __________________

01-31-2006, 06:57 AM	#13
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Ariven wrote: Magus` wrote: Ariven wrote: So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get? Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades? so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city.. What extra do they get? The one time opportunity to change from one neutral subclass to its alter ego class? If you want to do the quest you can!This only affects:Troubador/DirgeWizard/WarlockFury/WardenGuardian/BerzerkerIf you want to do the quest and loose all your spell upgrades then go for it. If you're happy in your city, then be happy!

01-31-2006, 08:29 AM	#14
HolyAvengerOne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	Svartmane wrote: Nerwen wrote:I have read about the way that the LU19 changes will affect the betrayal quests, but there is something that I have not fully understood. If you were to run a betrayal quest as a neutral class, wouldn't you keep your class? Would you get the choice to become either class? Or what?For example, both Qeynos and Freeport have Furies and Guardians, Dirges and Troubadors, etc. If I start in Freeport as a Dirge, and then go to Qeynos... wouldn't I still remain a Dirge, since the class is allowable in Qeynos? I did try to look it up but maybe I missed it. Does anyone know this?ThanksJen To put it simply, you will have the choice. While characters whose original class is not limited by their city will not have to switch to the other class available to you, it will be an option for Betrayers. Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-30-200601:52 PM Can't wait to see how that option will be done in-game. Might be interesting to try __________________

01-31-2006, 09:26 AM	#15
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Zald wrote: Ariven wrote: Magus` wrote: Ariven wrote: So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get? Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades? so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city.. What extra do they get? The one time opportunity to change from one neutral subclass to its alter ego class? If you want to do the quest you can! the extra of being able to choose to swap classes that was stated as not in the cards as an option that we would get, and something that you cannot get now. I can understand the forced change for citybound classes, but the neutrals dont need it. If the devs are insistant upon allowing this change, then they should add in a quest, just as hard as the betrayal, that allows anyone a onetime shot to change classes without forcing a city change... __________________

01-31-2006, 09:33 AM	#16
Svartmane Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Ariven wrote: Zald wrote: Ariven wrote: Magus` wrote: Ariven wrote: So, um, why do they get a choice that those of us who do not betray do not get? Because they're going through the work to betray, and are willing to give up their spell upgrades? so add in a quest that anyone can do that isn't a betrayal that lets us swap classes willy nilly.. just because they become a traitor, and are thereafter treated like crap in tehir new city doens't mean they should get something extra than those of us who are happy in their city.. What extra do they get? The one time opportunity to change from one neutral subclass to its alter ego class? If you want to do the quest you can! the extra of being able to choose to swap classes that was stated as not in the cards as an option that we would get, and something that you cannot get now. I can understand the forced change for citybound classes, but the neutrals dont need it. If the devs are insistant upon allowing this change, then they should add in a quest, just as hard as the betrayal, that allows anyone a onetime shot to change classes without forcing a city change... When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change to their correlating class (ie Warlock -> Wizard) without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however. Message Edited by Svartmane on 01-31-200601:09 PM __________________ ______________________ Jesse Knapp Game Designer, EverQuest II

01-31-2006, 09:40 AM	#17
Calthine ZAM EQII Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,439	Svartmane wrote:When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however. I assume that's a one-shot quest... so I couldn't decide to change my main to a Dirge, then change my mind back to Troubador, then change my mind again 'cause Dirge was cooler, then change my mind... (woman's perogative, ya know) __________________ Please visit my non-gaming Blog! or follow me on Twitter!

01-31-2006, 10:38 AM	#18
Seiden Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 185	I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling.

01-31-2006, 12:16 PM	#19
Miracole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 142	Seiden wrote:I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling. you don't make any sense whatsoever.

01-31-2006, 01:04 PM	#20
HolyAvengerOne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	Miracole wrote: Seiden wrote:I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling. you don't make any sense whatsoever. I concur.At any rate, the class-changing / betrayal quest will stll have a level limit to complete it, as it always had.So I wouldn't fear what I think you just tried to explain. __________________

01-31-2006, 01:29 PM	#21
Magu Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,332	No it won't.Once they revamp betrayal, it will work at any level, as they've clearly stated before.

01-31-2006, 03:41 PM	#22
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	Miracole wrote: Seiden wrote:I sorta like this idea, but I don't.I like the idea that neutral classes don't even have to do the quest, that is realistic.I don't like however that any class can swith to their opposing class at anytime. Example as follows.Lets say class A is great at PvE and decent at Raids.And class B is great at Raids but not so good at PvE.Lets say mr. Joe made the Raid character knowing he was going to get into a high level raiding guild later on.And mr. Bob made a pve character because he wanted to level easy.Later on they are both the same level, and Bob switches to the raid character. Now both joe and bob are raiding characters and bob had a easier time leveling. you don't make any sense whatsoever. What he is saying is that some classes are better at endgame, and some are better 1-59 grinding. eg. classA lvls fast but is not so hot in endgame raiding. Class B lvls slowly but is good in the endgame. Now the most effective way to do this is to play classA to 60, then switch. This will annoy the people who did class B the hard way __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

01-31-2006, 04:24 PM	#23
SevrothVali Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	Svartmane wrote: When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however. I'll be cancelling my account. I don't like the direction this game is heading in. Never thought i'd see the day where they let you change your CLASS in an mmorpg. I'm sure a race change quest will be coming in the future now too. Along with appearance changes, what you choose at character creation will no longer mean anything.I'm sure future mmorpgs will eventually follow this also, when players start whining that "well X game has the feature, why not this one!" (cause you know, every mmorpg has to have the same features for some reason). So I predict class and race change abilities in alot of future mmorpgs. Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:25 AM Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:26 AM

01-31-2006, 05:02 PM	#24
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	SevrothValiba wrote: Svartmane wrote: When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however. I'll be cancelling my account. I don't like the direction this game is heading in. Never thought i'd see the day where they let you change your CLASS in an mmorpg. I'm sure a race change quest will be coming in the future now too. Along with appearance changes, what you choose at character creation will no longer mean anything.I'm sure future mmorpgs will eventually follow this also, when players start whining that "well X game has the feature, why not this one!" (cause you know, every mmorpg has to have the same features for some reason). So I predict class and race change abilities in alot of future mmorpgs. Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:25 AM Message Edited by SevrothValiba on 01-31-200605:26 AM Actually I predict this will be the last such game that does this. Youre right tho, EQ2 has gotten ridiculous. Its a different game each month so you have different toons. They tried to take a certain genre of game and make it 'genreless' so as maximise number of players. Instead of some people liking it, now we all equally dont like it __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

01-31-2006, 05:51 PM	#25
VampireWookie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	Svartmane wrote:When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however. I am a huge fan of this game, but this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Please let this consideration find it's way to the trash bin.

01-31-2006, 06:33 PM	#26
Ada Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	I can see with a betrayal, if your class is not supported in your new city, you're forced to change to the complimenting class (i.e. bruiser -> monk). However, please don't allow class neutral class changes, with or without betrayal. If you betray and your class is still supported, you should stay as that class. Please don't add any other quests or mechanics to allow class changes.

01-31-2006, 06:35 PM	#27
EvilErudite Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	Magus` wrote:No it won't.Once they revamp betrayal, it will work at any level, as they've clearly stated before. Better watch out, they'll probably change their minds and people will bash you cause you stated it as fact....:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:

01-31-2006, 06:35 PM	#28
MrDiz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 689	VampireWookie wrote: Svartmane wrote:When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however. I am a huge fan of this game, but this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Please let this consideration find it's way to the trash bin. Well it is stupid ... and it isnt ... all at the same time. In LU13 they effectively rewrote the game and the classes. This is just doing it again only with the players choice this time This game is not a slightly improved version of the game release over a year ago. Its a totally different game. Different classes, different game play.So the question is does it make more sense to pick a genre and style of game and then stick with it like eq1 or wow. Or is it best to radically shift your base on every whim of the verbal minority like eq2? __________________ Gizzi: Halfling 70 Swashbuckler, Dizzi: Halfling 70 Templar, Vizzi - Halfling 61 Shadow Knight, Bizzi - Halfling 61 Dirge, Qizzi - Halfling 70 Illusionist, Tizzi - Halfling 60 guardian ( Peek inside Dizzi's Home )

01-31-2006, 06:52 PM	#29
Anlari Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 107	The ability to change classes is going to be a huge disturbance in the game. Especialy if they keep their goal on letting you betray at any level and then rebetray as many times as you like. This is a very bad change that will further reduce the community in the game and dilute your choices to having even less consiquences and impact on the world. Huge mistake, its the one feature of that stupid matrix online game that keeps people from playing it. __________________

01-31-2006, 07:25 PM	#30
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Svartmane wrote: Ariven wrote: the extra of being able to choose to swap classes that was stated as not in the cards as an option that we would get, and something that you cannot get now. I can understand the forced change for citybound classes, but the neutrals dont need it. If the devs are insistant upon allowing this change, then they should add in a quest, just as hard as the betrayal, that allows anyone a onetime shot to change classes without forcing a city change... When the NEW betrayal quest is implemented in an upcoming update we are currently considering allowing non-city specific classes to change their class without betraying. The penalties associated with the change (resetting all spells to Apprentice I) would still apply in this situation however. Excellent! I think this is a great compromise Svartmane.. While not an advocate of allowing changing of classes at all, This is much more balanced of an idea.. __________________