Do not nerf wardens up the classes and fix the healing classes

mistress_darknes · 04-13-2005, 09:14 AM

Please read whats broken in the healing classes then fix the but to nerf us.

read this he said it very well

Warden's are not overpowered in my experience. I am not sure at level 50, but I've grouped since level 28 or so with a Warden that is a few levels behind me. Currently now I am level 42 and the Warden is 38. We also have a Templar that is our group just as much. And the templar is 42.

Most of the time, we have the Templar to heal and the warden is the backup healer and dps. Both of them combined do an outstanding job and work very well together. The primary healer by far is still the Templar.

Once in a while, the templar isn't on, so the warden takes over the primary healing role. And I can say that the Templar can hold his mana pool up longer then the Warden can. The Warden does a fine job healing, but her pool won't last as long as the Templar in a solo situation. Plus, if things get dicing, the Warden's healing aggro is what is overpowered. I can't tell you how many times I've had 2 or 3 groups of mobs on us, and if 1 gets on the Warden...they all end up on the warden. NEVER happens to the Templar.

Overall, from my perspective as the tank, I think that Wardens and Templars are balanced fine. Templars definitely have the advantage when it comes to healing. But Wardens can do the job if the templar isn't around, just not as well. And I know my healers because I can't keep the group moving if the healer is lom.

In the end, I prefer both of them in my group because they make an awesome team. And our group kicks [Removed for Content].

Message Edited by Eelyen on 04-04-2005 02:30 AM

I fear what they are going to do to us (

lets up the other clases.

not break them.

S

majinvegeta52 · 04-13-2005, 10:23 AM

Nerfing is the easier thing to do, and in most cases the thing that needs to be done..

Now this is extream case but you get my point..

FOR example.. Lets say the warden heal is abit too effective... SO instead of changing one spell, they go in and change the same spells in the other healers lines to equal that of the warden.. NOW every healer is healing too much, making the mobs damage trivial. SO they have to go in and change the mobs damage code to do more damage. This in turn throws off the " solo content" since the mobs are linked. SO instead of lowering the Wardens heal, they go and bugger up ALOT more crap by upping the other classes heals....Upping the other classes isnt always the thing to do..

Instead just lower the heal on the warden.. Nerfs/fixes/changes are part of a MMO, live it, love it, hate it, but understand that its here to stay. Devs cant please everyone so they do what they feel is best for the game..

Message Edited by majinvegeta5297 on 04-12-2005 11:24 PM

Dragonreal · 04-13-2005, 10:33 AM

If temps can have a GROUP heal that does 477/tick AND goes off all of its 8 times on ONE person in the grp, what exactly is wrong with a warden having an extra 200 points tacked onto their large direct heal and about 150 points onto the small direct heal? (Ppl may like to quote the total healing those spells do, but the fact is the only parts that are instant in it are the first 2 ticks which is 777 + 200ish and 456 + 150ish; note those numbers are at lvl 46 so are a bit smaller than what ppl usually quote). These big 2500 numbers ppl throw around are what happens in the 20 secs after those first two simultaneous ticks; 1600 hp in 20 secs isn't really all that much.

majinvegeta52 · 04-13-2005, 11:33 AM

Dragonrealms wrote:
If temps can have a GROUP heal that does 477/tick AND goes off all of its 8 times on ONE person in the grp, what exactly is wrong with a warden having an extra 200 points tacked onto their large direct heal and about 150 points onto the small direct heal? (Ppl may like to quote the total healing those spells do, but the fact is the only parts that are instant in it are the first 2 ticks which is 777 + 200ish and 456 + 150ish; note those numbers are at lvl 46 so are a bit smaller than what ppl usually quote). These big 2500 numbers ppl throw around are what happens in the 20 secs after those first two simultaneous ticks; 1600 hp in 20 secs isn't really all that much.

I personally dont really know specifics about warden or temp high end heals. BUT I can tell you right now that my defiler at lvl 40 gets blown away by a temp/inq in healing abilitys.. Id love to have numbers like what yall are talking bout, but the simple fact is I will never get there.. Wards sucks, and my direct heals are underpowered..

mistress_darknes · 04-13-2005, 03:10 PM

Unless your a warden you do not know the sruggle we endure now to keep you alive, we get nerfed we will not be asked to group any longer.

it seems the ones that are whining are the classes that are not supose to heal a lot,

there the ones with the great buffs and debuffs.

if we get nerfed on our's.

then the rest need to be nerfed too

why because there out buffing the wardens.

each class was balanced and worked well together.

there are a rare amount of wardens.

if a healer class does not like that they buff or debuff and we heal then they need to go warden. after all we can not do it all they broke us into areas so we have to work together you buff i heal you debuff i heal ect.

Templers rock with healing i love to be secound healer in a group with a templer.

i know ones will always post the whines and negitive things those that do i really hope to group with you why?

because you will die over and over.... why because were nerfed because of you.

and there will be no need for wardens in the game.

next we will have to start a whine about wizards they pull the agro from the tank,

oh yes beter nerf the paladins why because they tank to well and out do monks.

oh yes nerf swashbucklers because there evacs better then anothers.

oh yes nerf the armorsmiths to because they are making ubber armor.

there selling at higher rates then weapoin smiths.

so next time you start up a char think about this you whined about stuff so now your char will be non usable in the future..

why not whine about the fact most classes of healing are broken need to be fixed?

why not about when we use a grifon we go to a black screen.

or the server lag.

whine about something that really needs to be fixed instead of crating more broken things.

S

Eneg · 04-13-2005, 05:21 PM

nevermind

Message Edited by Enegar on 04-13-2005 06:22 AM

Syanis · 04-14-2005, 08:36 AM

The issue with wardens or least one I see around is this. Warens have massive avoidance buffs. This coupled with buffs from mystic / templar or such but do to the wardens buffs can allow a tank at 50ish to gain massive avoidance like 90% + avoidance. This makes it so a a tank can tank a epic raid mob with barely getting touched. This is a massive tactic being used on many servers atm to kill epic mobs that the raid couldn't do if not for this tactic with their current groups or at least would require alot more tactics.

This is one of the major issues being looked at from my understanding among many others for the combat revamp being looked at for LU7 or LU8. But currently the fix for this is to remove the major reason people are able to do this. This means pretty much nerfing wardens in that aspect. While nerfing sounds bad balancing is what its attempt is. Simply raising mobs and such or charging stuff in one area by upping means upping everything else to match. The solution that tends to look best is sometimes a "nerf".

Look at it like this, an arguement for quite awhile. Mages were under par on dps for their role (yes warlocks are now heightened), scouts were being out dps'd by fighter types like beserkers and even guardians, monks, bruisers. Now either they could nerf fighter types that needed or not nerf them but increase others, Now you increase others instead.... increase scouts so they do more dps significantly above fighter types including beserkers..... now mages need to be brought up above scouts significantly.... doing this will increase group dps massively since now scouts are doing 20-25% more dps.... mages are doing 40-60% more dps (do to the arguement atm that fighters do more then scouts alot of the time and both can and do do more then most mage types minus warlock as stands). Now with such a huge dps increase they need to balance mobs which means increasing mobs life / mitigation or whatever. This basically starts a huge chain of changes that need to be done to balance everything out.

Now instead of that they could do a slight up to pull mages away from scouts of a minor bit and drop tanks dps under scouts by a significant amount.... theres enough gap between priests dps and and fighter dps (following SoE's intended priest

smreas · 04-14-2005, 06:10 PM

Warens have massive avoidance buffs?

To my knowledge, they have one little one (dust storm) that is rarely (well, occasionally) used.

04-13-2005, 09:14 AM	#1
mistress_darknes Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 39	Please read whats broken in the healing classes then fix the but to nerf us. read this he said it very well Warden's are not overpowered in my experience. I am not sure at level 50, but I've grouped since level 28 or so with a Warden that is a few levels behind me. Currently now I am level 42 and the Warden is 38. We also have a Templar that is our group just as much. And the templar is 42. Most of the time, we have the Templar to heal and the warden is the backup healer and dps. Both of them combined do an outstanding job and work very well together. The primary healer by far is still the Templar. Once in a while, the templar isn't on, so the warden takes over the primary healing role. And I can say that the Templar can hold his mana pool up longer then the Warden can. The Warden does a fine job healing, but her pool won't last as long as the Templar in a solo situation. Plus, if things get dicing, the Warden's healing aggro is what is overpowered. I can't tell you how many times I've had 2 or 3 groups of mobs on us, and if 1 gets on the Warden...they all end up on the warden. NEVER happens to the Templar. Overall, from my perspective as the tank, I think that Wardens and Templars are balanced fine. Templars definitely have the advantage when it comes to healing. But Wardens can do the job if the templar isn't around, just not as well. And I know my healers because I can't keep the group moving if the healer is lom. In the end, I prefer both of them in my group because they make an awesome team. And our group kicks [Removed for Content]. Message Edited by Eelyen on 04-04-2005 02:30 AM I fear what they are going to do to us ( lets up the other clases. not break them. S __________________ Looking for a fun loving guild? With a family style play? a bit of Raiding? Vindicators! best guild you ll ever find!

04-13-2005, 11:33 AM	#4
majinvegeta52 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	Dragonrealms wrote: If temps can have a GROUP heal that does 477/tick AND goes off all of its 8 times on ONE person in the grp, what exactly is wrong with a warden having an extra 200 points tacked onto their large direct heal and about 150 points onto the small direct heal? (Ppl may like to quote the total healing those spells do, but the fact is the only parts that are instant in it are the first 2 ticks which is 777 + 200ish and 456 + 150ish; note those numbers are at lvl 46 so are a bit smaller than what ppl usually quote). These big 2500 numbers ppl throw around are what happens in the 20 secs after those first two simultaneous ticks; 1600 hp in 20 secs isn't really all that much. I personally dont really know specifics about warden or temp high end heals. BUT I can tell you right now that my defiler at lvl 40 gets blown away by a temp/inq in healing abilitys.. Id love to have numbers like what yall are talking bout, but the simple fact is I will never get there.. Wards sucks, and my direct heals are underpowered..

04-13-2005, 03:10 PM	#5
mistress_darknes Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 39	Unless your a warden you do not know the sruggle we endure now to keep you alive, we get nerfed we will not be asked to group any longer. it seems the ones that are whining are the classes that are not supose to heal a lot, there the ones with the great buffs and debuffs. if we get nerfed on our's. then the rest need to be nerfed too why because there out buffing the wardens. each class was balanced and worked well together. there are a rare amount of wardens. if a healer class does not like that they buff or debuff and we heal then they need to go warden. after all we can not do it all they broke us into areas so we have to work together you buff i heal you debuff i heal ect. Templers rock with healing i love to be secound healer in a group with a templer. i know ones will always post the whines and negitive things those that do i really hope to group with you why? because you will die over and over.... why because were nerfed because of you. and there will be no need for wardens in the game. next we will have to start a whine about wizards they pull the agro from the tank, oh yes beter nerf the paladins why because they tank to well and out do monks. oh yes nerf swashbucklers because there evacs better then anothers. oh yes nerf the armorsmiths to because they are making ubber armor. there selling at higher rates then weapoin smiths. so next time you start up a char think about this you whined about stuff so now your char will be non usable in the future.. why not whine about the fact most classes of healing are broken need to be fixed? why not about when we use a grifon we go to a black screen. or the server lag. whine about something that really needs to be fixed instead of crating more broken things. S __________________ Looking for a fun loving guild? With a family style play? a bit of Raiding? Vindicators! best guild you ll ever find!

04-13-2005, 05:21 PM	#6
Eneg Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 266	nevermind Message Edited by Enegar on 04-13-2005 06:22 AM __________________ __________________ ~~Deus ::: 50 Warden ::: Nektulos~~ Severity ::: 6x Bladedancer ::: Hindemith

04-13-2005, 10:23 AM	#2
majinvegeta52 Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	Nerfing is the easier thing to do, and in most cases the thing that needs to be done.. Now this is extream case but you get my point.. FOR example.. Lets say the warden heal is abit too effective... SO instead of changing one spell, they go in and change the same spells in the other healers lines to equal that of the warden.. NOW every healer is healing too much, making the mobs damage trivial. SO they have to go in and change the mobs damage code to do more damage. This in turn throws off the " solo content" since the mobs are linked. SO instead of lowering the Wardens heal, they go and bugger up ALOT more crap by upping the other classes heals....Upping the other classes isnt always the thing to do.. Instead just lower the heal on the warden.. Nerfs/fixes/changes are part of a MMO, live it, love it, hate it, but understand that its here to stay. Devs cant please everyone so they do what they feel is best for the game.. Message Edited by majinvegeta5297 on 04-12-2005 11:24 PM

04-13-2005, 10:33 AM	#3
Dragonreal General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,554	If temps can have a GROUP heal that does 477/tick AND goes off all of its 8 times on ONE person in the grp, what exactly is wrong with a warden having an extra 200 points tacked onto their large direct heal and about 150 points onto the small direct heal? (Ppl may like to quote the total healing those spells do, but the fact is the only parts that are instant in it are the first 2 ticks which is 777 + 200ish and 456 + 150ish; note those numbers are at lvl 46 so are a bit smaller than what ppl usually quote). These big 2500 numbers ppl throw around are what happens in the 20 secs after those first two simultaneous ticks; 1600 hp in 20 secs isn't really all that much.

04-14-2005, 08:36 AM	#7
Syanis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 60	The issue with wardens or least one I see around is this. Warens have massive avoidance buffs. This coupled with buffs from mystic / templar or such but do to the wardens buffs can allow a tank at 50ish to gain massive avoidance like 90% + avoidance. This makes it so a a tank can tank a epic raid mob with barely getting touched. This is a massive tactic being used on many servers atm to kill epic mobs that the raid couldn't do if not for this tactic with their current groups or at least would require alot more tactics. This is one of the major issues being looked at from my understanding among many others for the combat revamp being looked at for LU7 or LU8. But currently the fix for this is to remove the major reason people are able to do this. This means pretty much nerfing wardens in that aspect. While nerfing sounds bad balancing is what its attempt is. Simply raising mobs and such or charging stuff in one area by upping means upping everything else to match. The solution that tends to look best is sometimes a "nerf". Look at it like this, an arguement for quite awhile. Mages were under par on dps for their role (yes warlocks are now heightened), scouts were being out dps'd by fighter types like beserkers and even guardians, monks, bruisers. Now either they could nerf fighter types that needed or not nerf them but increase others, Now you increase others instead.... increase scouts so they do more dps significantly above fighter types including beserkers..... now mages need to be brought up above scouts significantly.... doing this will increase group dps massively since now scouts are doing 20-25% more dps.... mages are doing 40-60% more dps (do to the arguement atm that fighters do more then scouts alot of the time and both can and do do more then most mage types minus warlock as stands). Now with such a huge dps increase they need to balance mobs which means increasing mobs life / mitigation or whatever. This basically starts a huge chain of changes that need to be done to balance everything out. Now instead of that they could do a slight up to pull mages away from scouts of a minor bit and drop tanks dps under scouts by a significant amount.... theres enough gap between priests dps and and fighter dps (following SoE's intended priest

04-14-2005, 06:10 PM	#8
smreas Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Warens have massive avoidance buffs? To my knowledge, they have one little one (dust storm) that is rarely (well, occasionally) used.