Soe and Rangers Perhaps they just don't get it..

[Mono]

Well i'm not usually one to complain. However Devs never respond to the ranger community even the ones who ask nicely.

 

However it seems they've never quite got to grips with the fact we do most of our damage from ranged. I hardly ever melee if i can help it auto ftw or ranged simple. 

 

When chatting to an assasin in raid last nite i found out he's got a spell lvl 55 concealment that throws him into stealth and allows him to get off all his big assasin hits and after each attack it puts him back into stealth. I thought wow i'd love something like that instead of stealthing hitting focus aim going to use selection only to find my stealths been broken and now i'm trying to get off as many CA's within my 10second allotment /sigh.

 

Concealment surely owns on pvp .. but hey don't nerf that assasins are melee combat system is probably easier to work with.

 

Rangers are the only peeps who've got a different combat system in game.. healers heal Casters cast everyone else melee's except the god old ranger. And they've never quite understood that or perhaps its been a challenge to them.

 

I look at some of the new AA's and i'm meant to be thinking hey thats great but infact i'm thinking isn't this just fixing the problem thats already there.. take stream of arrows for example i'm having to spend aa on a spell thats never lived up to what its meant to have since it got nerfed and now i spend aa on it to try and get it remotly useful unless i want a coffee that is..

 

I so accept that being ranged is an advatage at times and i don't tend to complain about my dps as i do ok most of the time although i've had to work like other rangers to get good gear.

 

However Adornments for bows suck there's many more options for Throwing weapons with 10.0 dps adornement for throwing weapons we just get a + pierec or slashing dmg.

 

And i guess my biggest gripe now paladins and Shadownknights can use bows and there's no ranger only bows so come raid and using a fair dkp system alot of rangers are gonna be screwed if it wasn't bad enought having to compete with zerkers who think they need a fabled bow.

 

Last but not least i don't think i've ever heard a dev comment on the ranger ... ever apart from the one who offered us a great option with the hawk dive and letting us get off our stealth attacks a bit like concelment i guess but pull it for PVP reasons no doubt.

 

I honestly think they've never quite got to grips with bow combat nor have they really bothered seems they skirt round the issues and think well they melee as well so just give them adornments on that.. i'm a ranger... BOW  ARROWS : )

 

oK well thats my rant off. I still love my ranger and my post isn't about dps i'm fine there thanks its about the uniqueness of rangers and how we're just getting quick fixes to long term problems and always being left out cos in my personal opinion they just can't be bothered to address the ranged combat issues let alone fix them. And i'm not asking for them to whoop my dps up i'm just asking for a few simple problems to be ironed out like stealth breaking and adornements and stream of arrows and ranger only bows would be nice.  Rangers are quite literally the running joke of eq2.. everyone has a joke about rangers.

 

I for one would just like a dev to comment but i know that will never happen as they either don't have a soloution for Rangers or it would compromise there plas for PVP. 

 

 

Oh and as for Gods i'm agnostic.. thanks soe.. i'll just have to wait and see.. i bet if u ran a poll you'd find more high end rangers scratching their heads as to which gods actually useful  again melee get alot more options and crit hit boosts bla bla bla as oppose to our one Tunare rangerd dps buff and then a few heals. As rightly pointed out by another ranger heals wouldn't be such a bad option.. but we don't even get a cloak that helps ranger crit or dps yet melee do.. 

 

So i'm agnostic until you bring me a god that has RANGED options cos i RANGE.. bow arrows your know..!!

 

OMG I KEEP ADDING TO THIS POST COS THERES SO MANY ISSUES..

 

Arrows .. i've got ichorstrand and any ranger who has it or Tari bow breathes a sigh or relief it makes a huge difference being able to summon arrows every 5min.. But for those raid rangers like me before i had ichorstrand.. my god arrows cost a fortune with many Guild banks having to support the ranger. I don't think the trueshot blessing is any use at all to the raid ranger especially as i heard there no zone.. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. anyhow's thanks again..

 

Message Edited by mononoko on 11-27-2006 05:19 AM

Message Edited by mononoko on 11-27-2006 05:24 AM

Message Edited by mononoko on 11-27-2006 05:27 AM

[DarkMirrax]

well said what more can be addeded ? nothing much imo .. rangers still are mighty in numbers but lowest in dev help

 

as for concealment

 

Concealment > Punch Blade (1.5x damage) > Gorestrike (2x damage) > Deathly Blade (2.5x damage) > Assassinate (3x damage)

 

enough said really :smileymad:

 

Concealment is EXACTLY HOW HAWK DIVE SHOULD BE !

 

 

[Mono]

in fact the more i think about it the more wound up i'm getting so i'll stop..

 

But they couldn't even put a cloak in that helps our ranged dps.. yet casters get a spell dmg cloak healers get a heal cloak melee get a str cloak proc and melee cloak..

 

again because we melee which isn't our principle attack they think that will suffice. Again ignoring out combat arts because melee is an easier option for them.

 

As with Gods assasins an others get massive dps options cos there are massive MELEE dps options..

 

we have to spend ages justyfying what god we're using and even draw a conclusion that heals might be remotly useful. If i did choose tunare for the limited ranged option my cloak would still be a healers cloak unless i get a crafted one. I even did the quest from Edge in mistmoore catacombes and still my cloak had melee boost on it..

 

So list wise..

 

Dev's don't respond to the ranger community never have.

Good dps is do-able but takes time to get to know the ranger without a doubt in my mind having played all characters its the hardest to play and get good results

 

We don't get a ranged cloak

The god selection is limited infact brell is teasing me but still sucks for ranged

Our AA's are good poison line and double shot but others are just fixing problems we already had

There is still no soloution to our hawk and we we're offered/teased then it was taken away from us

We have to compete with every class non mage healer for bows now

Arrows still cost a fortune unless your lucky like me and other raid rangers and guild banks are having to support raid rangers here.

Adornments aren't very good for bows but if i had a throwing weapon it would be.

And i don't melee simple.. don't care what other rangers do i only use ember strike rangers blade and  master strike ..

 

Despite all this believe it or not i love my Ranger really do. I'm just saying soe don't do us any favours at all. Even the rain caller hq i loved it i even love the bow but why not do a T7 ranger only HQ? for a bow or class specific i mean claymore you catered for the melee community Healers mages hell even the bruisers.. but where was my Claymore bow.. oh thats right i melee as well don't i.???

 

Also assasins get haste and dps buff.. one being bloodline spell..36% at adept III. where's my dps buff?

 

back to loving my ranger.

 

Message Edited by mononoko on 11-27-2006 06:16 AM

[DarkMirrax]

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mononoko wrote:

 

having played all characters its the hardest to play and get good results

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thats the only thing i disagree with i would put coercer top of that list but the rest , spot on .

[Mono]

ok just seen cloak of valour it seems it works off ranged.. still .. umm yeah. /hides

[Jayad]

The assassin skill you should really be jealous of is the level 65 one, Exacting.  It's a temp buff which improves damage & re-use timers for all CAs under a native cast timer of 1 min.  (Basically, the DOTs for an assassin and a  few others)  It's an important buff whereas the ranger gets the bird (literally).  Concealment is needed in order to get all the assassin backstabs off.  (It also reduces hate gain)  Rangers get far fewer stealth attacks so it's not really necessary, plus your cast timers are so long that it would be dumb for you.  Concealment doesn't last very long.

On the other hand I'm not impressed with the assassin EOF AA tree.  I think the Ranger one is better.  So I think that will even things slightly.

[magnemmar]

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mononoko wrote:

However Adornments for bows suck there's many more options for Throwing weapons with 10.0 dps adornement for throwing weapons we just get a + pierec or slashing dmg.

 

And i guess my biggest gripe now paladins and Shadownknights can use bows and there's no ranger only bows so come raid and using a fair dkp system alot of rangers are gonna be screwed if it wasn't bad enought having to compete with zerkers who think they need a fabled bow.

 

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Just because SKs and Paladins can use bows doesn't mean that they'll want to spend DKP on them when their abilities are far better used from melee range.

Plus, as you said, there are more options for Throwing Weapons, so why would a Paladin or an SK bother with a bow when they could just throw ranged weapons?

[kidpaul]

So I looked at the broker today for adorments only and out of 142 pages i found 6 items that are for bow I found 4 pages for throwing and I for melee tempers only it was 71 pages not counting bindings, handles, pommels, handguards and what not else there is for melee.now the cheapest for bow was a +2 dmg slash priced at 29gp the second was also a 2+ dmg slash priced at 29gp the third was a +2 dmg slash priced at 30gp and then it toke a leap to the real good stuff it was a scintillating +12 slash dmg priced at 4p 80gp then another +12 dmg priced at 7p and a +12 piercing also at 8p, 40gp. none of scintillating for melee was close to the pricing of the ranged cant remember all the effect poison procs, heat dmg, slow and what other goodies they get like the righteous life proc or phantom power tap was priced higher then 60gp however the people using throwing had to cough up around 3p at most.Sure this can relate to the fact that not everyone has found their books yet and the amount of tradeskillers in one category but still 6 items out of 142 PAGES and you can easily find lvl 40 Lambent tempers priced around the cheapest lvl 10 shimmering bow adorment I cant help but feel a little neglected since we only get to choose from slash and dmg where atleast the throwing has atleast slash, crushing, piercing, phanom power tap, and divine but again this can be becuase noone on our server has found the book that can make something else then slashing or piercing for bows if there is something else.About that hawk it was just a beta note and not everything makes it into the final cut. lets just hope they didn't scrub the idea they had about the hawk change for good.Oh yeah forgot to meantion that if a bow drops on a raid Im on. Im pretty got [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure that our guild leader would make sure that it will be ranger biding war first and no other gets to bid unless all rangers decline. unlike some other guild our leader seam to like us rangers since he keeps 3 of us around. but lately I have been the only ranger showing up to raid cause the other to play other toons or dont have time to raid.

Message Edited by kidpaul on 11-27-2006 03:14 PM

[Prandtl]

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magnemmar wrote:

Just because SKs and Paladins can use bows doesn't mean that they'll want to spend DKP on them when their abilities are far better used from melee range.

Plus, as you said, there are more options for Throwing Weapons, so why would a Paladin or an SK bother with a bow when they could just throw ranged weapons?

---

Why not?   Better range, better stats, and more damage then thrown weapons.  And they need something for the ranged slot anyways, so why not use a bit of dkp?

[Torrin]

Personally I'd like to see Rain Caller as a Ranger-Only Bow... everything about it including the HQ to get just screams RANGER..But no.. everyone who can use a bow can get it.. and use it..  In PvP It's invaluable.. sure it might not hit as hard as the Raid bows rangers can get.. but Come on, Storm Arrow owns face in PvP.. Nothing like finally having our own long-ranged Stun..Give the Brigs and Assassins a taste of their own medicine now..

[Boramyr]

Well I don't normally post on threads like this, as you can see I don't really post much at all.  This thread just caught me in the right mood I guess.  The problem is not that SOE doesn't get our class.   The fundamental flaw of your argument is that YOU do not get our class.   Rangers are NOT a 100% ranged class, never have been (not even in archetypal fiction) never will be.   You want to play an ARCHER that does nothing but shoot a bow, but that isn't what we are.  Almost 1/3 of our combat arts are Melee and our biggest dps combat art is melee.   I like the fact that I can stay at ranged if the AE's get too nasty and not loose too much DPS but if you want to play your class to the best of your ability then you need to dance in and out of melee range.    If you need to gripe, gripe that EQ2 doesn't have an archer class so you can stay at the back of the fight all the time like some sort of namby pamby mage (nm they can't do that either because of PBAE's and such).   Grab a sword get into the fight and learn to use ALL your class not just part of it and then gripe that you are lacking.  

 

Now I'm not saying that there isn't an issue or two, and assassin's are having their time in the sun like we did back in DoF, and then Summoners just after us. 

 

As for the Dev responses, other than the Hawk Dive debacle the last time I saw a Dev come into this forum he came in with absolute evidence from SOE's world parse and was told by at least five people that his numbers were WRONG and he was a LIAR.  Hell I wouldn't come back either. 

 

Kurrash Darkstalker, 70 Ranger, Antonia Bayle

Message Edited by Boramyr on 11-27-2006 09:24 PM

[xandez]

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Boramyr wrote:

 Rangers are NOT a 100% ranged class, never have been (not even in archetypal fiction) never will be.   Agree to this...You want to play an ARCHER that does nothing but shoot a bow, but that isn't what we are.  Almost 1/3 of our combat arts are Melee and our biggest dps combat art is melee.  But now... Biggest DPS combat art is MELEE?? Sir, are you on crack or sumthing?  I like the fact that I can stay at ranged if the AE's get too nasty and not loose too much DPS but if you want to play your class to the best of your ability then you need to dance in and out of melee range.   Well, not really necessary... of course if you want to try to stay max cast, then ok. If you need to gripe, gripe that EQ2 doesn't have an archer class so you can stay at the back of the fight all the time like some sort of namby pamby mage (nm they can't do that either because of PBAE's and such).   Grab a sword get into the fight and learn to use ALL your class not just part of it and then gripe that you are lacking.  Wheeeeee..... I dont think the OP meant this in his post. I think he is meleeing also, did you get his point?

 

Now I'm not saying that there isn't an issue or two, and assassin's are having their time in the sun like we did back in DoF, and then Summoners just after us. Nothing wrong with assassins doing nice dmg. Just that why should we suffer so much from the ability to do ranged dmg? Because of PvP? What about mages and priests then? They can spell/heal from a distance too...

 

As for the Dev responses, other than the Hawk Dive debacle the last time I saw a Dev come into this forum he came in with absolute evidence from SOE's world parse and was told by at least five people that his numbers were WRONG and he was a LIAR.  Hell I wouldn't come back either. Well, the DEV:s do read even the ranger forums, im pretty sure about it. But do you think that they will answer if you demand it? And whay should they? They are the DEV:s

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++Xan

[Teksun]

Of course the Dev's read the Ranger forums. But it's like going to the seedy part of town: They sneak in, take a look and leave. They SURE as heck don't announce their presence, we are a mean group

[TaleraRis]

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Boramyr wrote:

 Almost 1/3 of our combat arts are Melee and our biggest dps combat art is melee.  

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What about Sniper Shot? Mine at my level and at Adept I maxes at 5299. There's also Stealthy Fire, which tops out for me at 2702. Both of these are ranged combat abilities.Dire Blade caps for me at 1386.  None of my other melee attacks even come close to this number. Now ignore the actual numbers for a second and study the ratios. One ranged attack is nearly twice my highest melee. The other is like 4 times the damage. I just don't see where you're getting that our biggest DPS combat art is melee. Even before the change to make rangers rangers from the get-go, our heavy hitters have always been our ranged attacks, and our melee abilities sub-par.

[Balerius]

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TaleraRis wrote:

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Boramyr wrote:

 Almost 1/3 of our combat arts are Melee and our biggest dps combat art is melee.  

---

What about Sniper Shot? Mine at my level and at Adept I maxes at 5299. There's also Stealthy Fire, which tops out for me at 2702. Both of these are ranged combat abilities.

Dire Blade caps for me at 1386.  None of my other melee attacks even come close to this number. Now ignore the actual numbers for a second and study the ratios. One ranged attack is nearly twice my highest melee. The other is like 4 times the damage.

I just don't see where you're getting that our biggest DPS combat art is melee. Even before the change to make rangers rangers from the get-go, our heavy hitters have always been our ranged attacks, and our melee abilities sub-par.

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You might want to note that he said highest dps CA.....not highest damage CA.

[Katsugen]

Yup blade is our highest dps CA. Given the cast time and the total damage it is the highest for a single target. Infact sniper shot is just about in the same boat as stream as far as a raider is concerned.

I agree with the OP to an extent. There are no doubt alot of dev's that work on the items/skills/buffs etc etc.. and over and over it seems that not all of them understand what is useful for rangers. Our class gears/buffs quite different from other scouts, and sometimes I'm unsure they realize that.

We should make a list of all the new items in this expansion that have +pierce +slash +crush on them. This to me, is not only a slap in our face, but a clear indication SOE has dev's creating items they don't realize are useless to rangers. Argue all you want about rangers needing to do melee dps as well, but I see absolutely no reason why there can't be +ranged on the items as well.

I don't have complaints about our dps, I do have complaints about how we manage our dps. The reason SOE is having trouble balancing our class is we follow different rules in achieving dps. I wouldn't expect to see ranger balanced until all the dev's figure out how we work.

- Katsugen

 

[Verm75]

There is no point in really spending that much time in rangers. Were the only class in game that does ranged damage with a bow. There are plenty of melee classes, plenty of casters, plenty of healer archtypes but only 1 ranger. That is why sony doesnt really care about or spend a lot of time on us because were such a minority.Anyway, i <3 the new hawk dive!Oh wait nvm, a dev just promised something that never happened, story of eq2 tbh.

[Mono]

I just think rangers are unique in there Combat style and it seems that the don't really put much effort into our Combat structure, especailly arrow costs, adornments and buffs. 

Assasins can add a poison proc and have a dps and haste buff (one being Bloodlines) we get haste.  Assains also add hate something i've never as a ranger been able to do and would on certain fights benefit from.

For me i love my ranger i like using a bow simple, i do think we have to work alot harder than other classes to parse well and i think really for us to be comparable we need to select our gear carefully. But it does sadden me that its still unbalanced that i have to get two of the best rarest bows in game to compete with an assasin kitted out from labs and some legendary items. We're both preadators our class is Dps.

And i feel CA's like stream have never been addressed properly since nerf and our hawk has been a total flop.  Rangers are limited on ranged adornments  sure we have melee options as well but in all honesty our melee is poor. I'd say assasins Ranged abilities far outweigh our melee abilities just for the fact they can auto for 2.5k

So we're an unbalanced class. I would just like a dev to post what he/she  thought about the Eq2 ranger class. Even if he post says  rangers are fine there just how we wanted them to be, however there's been so many changes and potential great things to come to our class that i can only really form my opinion of how i'd like my ranger to be.  Then at least i could play some what bemused but knowing well this is what they want us to be like.

At present it feels like we're almost there but not quite there. 

If u raid as a ranger without a summon arrow bow u're looking at high costs arrows poisons and repairs.

One last thing we have T7 ammo that obviously affect our auto attack i'd love to see RANGER only Arrows with stats. or Proc or debuffs that would be nice.  SOE THINK ABOUT IT its the least you could do.

[Starness]

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Katsugen wrote:

I don't have complaints about our dps, I do have complaints about how we manage our dps. The reason SOE is having trouble balancing our class is we follow different rules in achieving dps. I wouldn't expect to see ranger balanced until all the dev's figure out how we work.

- Katsugen

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I think that's the key point here. All the devs, not just Lockeye, need to understand that there's a class out there that uses the ranged skill full time (or almost) and uses a bow not just to pull, but as a primary weapon.

[kidpaul]

Im pretty sure that all the Devs know that the Ranger is different and not just Lockeye. just look at the character creation screen they tucked away the assassin, swashy and brigand under rogues and the dirge and troubador in bards and ranger well got our very own category and he (this is the best part) wields a bow. maybe we get the least goodies cause we are a minority in combat style and gear. or maybe because when a dev takes one step inside the ranger forum all the rangers decide to throw him a blanket party.It's kinda like when Eddie Izzard jokes about Pol Pot "So I suppose we're glad that Pol Pot's under house arrest... you know, 1.7 million people. At least he - we know where he is - under house arrest! Just don't go in that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing house" I guess you can figure out rest.

[Zholain]

/speculationThe reason that we're do difficult to deal with from a 'balancing' perspective is probably due to the fact that there are so many perceptions and misconceptions of what we can and can not do, and what we should and should not do.  If you were around during the DoF days and early in the KoS timeframe, it was pretty easy to see this phenomenon in action.  Removing all other historical roles of the ranger in previous MMO's, both PnP and computer based, from the conversation and solely discussing EQ2:In the eyes of most rangers, we are a dps class, pure and simple.  The value of what utility we have is perceived to be of minimal value.  We don't bring anything to a group or raid except damage.  Notice that I said 'most' rangers.  There are some rangers that believe we are, or should be, more of a utility class.  If rangers can not agree on this, then a development  team certainly will never be able to.Some wizards say 'Rangers can wear chain armor.  It's not balanced for rangers to do as much damage as a wizard since their risk of dying is less'.  Others say 'A ranger can stand back and fight from range and avoid all AOE's having less risk of death.  If their dps suffers when they move back, that's fair since their risk goes down.'There are literally hundreds of different arguments on the SOE boards alone going back and forth about this.  People who don't play a ranger in EQ2 every day can not possibly understand how frustrating it is to continually have to buy poisons.  Nor do they understand that our summon arrow ability, even at master, can't keep up if you run a couple of instances in the afternoon then go to raid that night.  They never had to give up 3 or more complete 20+ slot bags just to hold arrows.Little things like this that we just become accustomed to are things that most people don't understand.  There is no reason that the SOE dev team should be any different than the gemeral game population.  Varying perceptions persist among the players, and I'll bet that it exists on the dev team as well./speculation offI sure hope that this doesn't appear to be a rant.  It wasn't meant to be.  This is just my guess.  I think that most everyone, including the devs, know what they want the ranger to be...they just can't agree on it.

[Starness]

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kidpaul wrote:
Im pretty sure that all the Devs know that the Ranger is different and not just Lockeye. just look at the character creation screen they tucked away the assassin, swashy and brigand under rogues and the dirge and troubador in bards and ranger well got our very own category and he (this is the best part) wields a bow.

maybe we get the least goodies cause we are a minority in combat style and gear. or maybe because when a dev takes one step inside the ranger forum all the rangers decide to throw him a blanket party.

It's kinda like when Eddie Izzard jokes about Pol Pot "So I suppose we're glad that Pol Pot's under house arrest... you know, 1.7 million people. At least he - we know where he is - under house arrest! Just don't go in that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing house" I guess you can figure out rest.

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I'm sorry, but the state of adorments (for one) makes me disagree. Skills are way more important since the combat changes, yet I looked over the list and see no +ranged adorment, there are however +crush/slash/pierce adornments for melee weapons. There are some nice adorments for thrown weapons, I would think they would mirror them for bows, but they did not. There are some really nice melee weapon adornments that have no mirror in bow adorments (our primary source of AA dmg). +12 dmg is nice, but that damage is not normalized it's *just* +12 (unless it's been adjusted since beta). Well it's +12 to CAs too you say. I've looked at parses, melee classes will get in way more CAs than I will in a given combat and that's if I SPAM. A melee with one of the +12 DMG melee on their DWs get a lot more boost than our bows ever will.

On top of adorments I would add buffs (like pheonixblade) that are only melee for some reason, buffs (like the guardians group buffs) that add +c/s/p but no ranged, and items that add +c/s/p but no ranged. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think so.

I do agree with you though about the forum. If I were a Dev I wouldn't step in here. I try to be constructive. I try to have rational arguments to why I think things should be different, but yes, often times a Dev get's brow beaten in here. Oh wells.

[Jay]

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Zholain wrote:

In the eyes of most rangers, we are a dps class, pure and simple.  The value of what utility we have is perceived to be of minimal value.  We don't bring anything to a group or raid except damage.  Notice that I said 'most' rangers.  There are some rangers that believe we are, or should be, more of a utility class.  If rangers can not agree on this, then a development  team certainly will never be able to.

Some wizards say 'Rangers can wear chain armor.  It's not balanced for rangers to do as much damage as a wizard since their risk of dying is less'.  Others say 'A ranger can stand back and fight from range and avoid all AOE's having less risk of death.  If their dps suffers when they move back, that's fair since their risk goes down.'

There are literally hundreds of different arguments on the SOE boards alone going back and forth about this.  People who don't play a ranger in EQ2 every day can not possibly understand how frustrating it is to continually have to buy poisons.  Nor do they understand that our summon arrow ability, even at master, can't keep up if you run a couple of instances in the afternoon then go to raid that night.  They never had to give up 3 or more complete 20+ slot bags just to hold arrows.

Little things like this that we just become accustomed to are things that most people don't understand.  There is no reason that the SOE dev team should be any different than the gemeral game population.  Varying perceptions persist among the players, and I'll bet that it exists on the dev team as well.

/speculation off

I sure hope that this doesn't appear to be a rant.  It wasn't meant to be.  This is just my guess.  I think that most everyone, including the devs, know what they want the ranger to be...they just can't agree on it.

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Very well said, Cat. Rant or not, you happened to sum up a few of the big reasons why I don't feel compelled to play my ranger (or EQ) much anymore - it just felt like a lot of frustrations for very little payout. I just got tired of having to endure, and adapt, and overcome... eventually you start asking yourself "why?" Why should have to "overcome" something just to have fun? Sooner or later, you get weary having to adapt...and adapt... and adapt again. Especially when there's an artificial ceiling whereby you have to be an extreme hardcore player or just Ebay some platinum in order to put out the kind of DPS that other classes (including those with far more utility) can attain without so much time and effort.

Anyway, I'd submit that another reason SOE has trouble giving us a clear niche and some unique role in which we can excel is just the nature of our class abilities - we're classified as scouts in EQ2, but we're ranged attackers. So we depend on ranged procs, ranged weapons, +ranged stats, ranged ammunition, etc. No other class has these requirements; we're the odd men out. EQ2 has 24 classes, and most of them share characteristics with at least one other, but not rangers. I sorta feel like we're generally forgotten / overlooked b/c no other class requires the bonuses, abilities, and gear that we do. We've covered the lack of bows, ranged procs, and +ranged stat gear pretty extensively, and sadly, I think those problems are a by-product of being the square pegs that SOE is trying to fit into round holes.

[Ranja]

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Jay42 wrote:

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Zholain wrote:In the eyes of most rangers, we are a dps class, pure and simple.  The value of what utility we have is perceived to be of minimal value.  We don't bring anything to a group or raid except damage.  Notice that I said 'most' rangers.  There are some rangers that believe we are, or should be, more of a utility class.  If rangers can not agree on this, then a development  team certainly will never be able to.Some wizards say 'Rangers can wear chain armor.  It's not balanced for rangers to do as much damage as a wizard since their risk of dying is less'.  Others say 'A ranger can stand back and fight from range and avoid all AOE's having less risk of death.  If their dps suffers when they move back, that's fair since their risk goes down.'There are literally hundreds of different arguments on the SOE boards alone going back and forth about this.  People who don't play a ranger in EQ2 every day can not possibly understand how frustrating it is to continually have to buy poisons.  Nor do they understand that our summon arrow ability, even at master, can't keep up if you run a couple of instances in the afternoon then go to raid that night.  They never had to give up 3 or more complete 20+ slot bags just to hold arrows.Little things like this that we just become accustomed to are things that most people don't understand.  There is no reason that the SOE dev team should be any different than the gemeral game population.  Varying perceptions persist among the players, and I'll bet that it exists on the dev team as well./speculation offI sure hope that this doesn't appear to be a rant.  It wasn't meant to be.  This is just my guess.  I think that most everyone, including the devs, know what they want the ranger to be...they just can't agree on it.

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Very well said, Cat. Rant or not, you happened to sum up a few of the big reasons why I don't feel compelled to play my ranger (or EQ) much anymore - it just felt like a lot of frustrations for very little payout. I just got tired of having to endure, and adapt, and overcome... eventually you start asking yourself "why?" Why should have to "overcome" something just to have fun? Sooner or later, you get weary having to adapt...and adapt... and adapt again. Especially when there's an artificial ceiling whereby you have to be an extreme hardcore player or just Ebay some platinum in order to put out the kind of DPS that other classes (including those with far more utility) can attain without so much time and effort.

Anyway, I'd submit that another reason SOE has trouble giving us a clear niche and some unique role in which we can excel is just the nature of our class abilities - we're classified as scouts in EQ2, but we're ranged attackers. So we depend on ranged procs, ranged weapons, +ranged stats, ranged ammunition, etc. No other class has these requirements; we're the odd men out. EQ2 has 24 classes, and most of them share characteristics with at least one other, but not rangers. I sorta feel like we're generally forgotten / overlooked b/c no other class requires the bonuses, abilities, and gear that we do. We've covered the lack of bows, ranged procs, and +ranged stat gear pretty extensively, and sadly, I think those problems are a by-product of being the square pegs that SOE is trying to fit into round holes.

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I think a dev really needs to step in here and read this post. Especially these last two by Jay and Cat. Spot on

[Mronin]

I whole heartedly second that notion Elbryan. I've thought a lot about what Cat and Jay have said and I'd be hard pressed to add anything substantive to what they have written thus far. My hat is off to both of you.

[Mono]

Keeping it short and sweet.

 

I too would like a dev response and hope other rangers will post asking for one.

Message Edited by mononoko on 11-30-200608:28 PM

Message Edited by mononoko on 11-30-2006 08:28 PM

[Jay]

Thanks for the kind words, y'all. As much as I'm enjoying WoW (and its Hunter class specifically), one thing that that game cannot touch is the community that this game has, especially the community that we Rangers share. I've been loathe to post much about my semi-retirement or disappointment with EQ2's Ranger class, b/c I don't want to depress anyone or bring people down with something that seems like excessive negativity.

But I do hope that those others who have been active in this forum long enough to know my posts and general attitude will understand where I'm coming from. (And not condemn me for putting Kaeros on the shelf to explore a new world, LOL.) I'd hate to come off all gloom-and-doom, b/c I don't think the class is horrible shape or anything. It's just the ongoing frustrations without a corresponding payout that wore me down...and a lot of other issues with the game in general, beyond just our class-specific frustrations.  

As for a Dev reading this.. maybe they have, or will, but I wouldn't worry too much about it either way. They just can't keep up with individual threads in 24 different class forums, in addition to all the other boards, and that's not really their job anyway. And any game forum is generally a horrible place to get objective feedback on the aspects of your work. While many of us do try to keep it constructive and share useful information, by and large, the forums are filled with venom, spite, and bitterness. That's just the nature of things.

[Sulas]

Kaeros, you'll always be in-game as some Ranger's tiger pet.I too hope the Devs will read this thread, and the preceding couple of posts especially.  My first rule of games is that it be fun to play, when it starts being work, I'll probably quit.  After two years of EQ2, I've really slowed down, in no small part because the Devs keep changing the game.  meh...  I got nothing else I feel like saying, but I def spend more time on the boards than I do actually playing.

[TaleraRis]

Amen, Jay, and I'm the last person that is going to fault you for finding greener pastures. I've been enjoying my archer-build blaster in City of Heroes leagues more than I've enjoyed Gwyn lately. Many hurdles put in place for the soloer in general, and the soloing ranger specifically, have me looking at my alts (I've been screwing around with a swash alt on the island) or other games (as you know I have my own trollop Hunter) because the fun is very slowly leaking out of EQ2 for me, despite the fact that there is much to enjoy about the game still and the new expansion. I can't play in the way I've been accustomed to for so long, even putting in a lot of effort, and it's hard not to be depressed about that. Especially if you go elsewhere and find exactly what you're looking for. I wouldn't be afraid to post about your feelings, though. They're honest and truthful and so long as you're not nasty about it (which you never are) then I would hope the constructive criticism would be welcomed and not spat upon.

[dazze]

hehe another soe dont treat rangers fairly thread

I admit the lack of decent ranged adornments is pretty crap, but from a dps point of view I dont see why people are whining.

Admittedly it takes good gear, but on average I will always do more dps than anyone else in my guild when raiding. I dont see how that is a bad thing. And I can think of at least another 4 rangers on SP and RE who would agree with me.

Maxamising dps as a ranger in a raid is about primarily about timing, and also the order in which you cast!! Read what your ca does and then attack accordingly.