Soe. Please Help.

[Lyptus]

Alright, I love SOE. Despite any rumors, or gripes. Nerfs. I love SOE. Norrath is a wonderful place. =DNow I'm not gonna point fingers here, or say you guys aren't doing your job right, because thats not fair. You guys make money doing this, and most of us, shell our dimes out to play it. The feelings I am getting from reading these post on the ranger forum are that "There's something wrong, we're broken" Or "We're nerfed."  Most players aren't complaining about how much Damage we do. We do ton of damage. Its mostly about lack of Melee. I won't ever complain about my ranged dps or arrow usage. Summon Arrows is quite nice. Something I've never had as a scout class. Every other ranger the other games I've played, had to craft them or shell out coin meant for gear to buy them. The only really big hit is gear selection at higher end. Melee CA's are a bit to weak, in my humble opinion, but I just bow Kite to make up for them.So Rangers are "Ranged Primary" I will vote on taking a hit to my DPS, to make up for my melee. Or making us more of a benefit to a group other than hard hitting abilities. Most rangers who make it to high levels feel something that they can't quite put their fingers on...I can't quite either.Here is my take, lets get back to "Everquest" roots. Maybe not all the way, but here is what I'm talking about.This is what I say, make a ranger more like the EQ1 Ranger. Here is a quote...Rangers are warriors attuned to the ways of nature, able to call upon the power of the wild to aid them in their fights. Rangers are primarily a melee class, able to wear chain armor and wield many kinds of weapons.Rangers are scouts and hunters, able to track enemies from a great distance and engage them with deadly ranged attacks, but rangers can also fight well in a melee, using two weapons to attack their foes.Rangers have spells drawn from nature. They can increase run speed and add to an ally's armor, health or ability to attack. In a pinch, they can heal or directly damage enemies with fiery attacks.Rangers can hunt alone or in a group, though allies allow them to best use their abilities. A ranger's bow is a welcome addition to a group, adding a good deal of damage. The ranger is a great class for players who like to engage in melee battles between trips to explore the broad expanse of Norrath.

[Axor]

im happy how we are distributed melee / ranged, in fact i would prefer to never have to melee.in raid i rarely do.ALL i complain about is the lack of high end bows and ammo. the only way we can get up to Assasin or Wiz DPS is with a sarnak or a corruption bow + t8 ammo.Once with that in my guild, we only got 1 bazkul 1 ichostrand and no sarnak or corruption bows.There is a serius lack of bows in this game.

[Saihung23]

I enjoy the balance we have right now between Ranged and Melee.  We have a good mix.

 

I am rarely at a point where I dont have my ranged ca's up when I have run through my melee ca's.  I like the damage and utility provided to me with these melee ca's.  The utility is a self serving utility. The root generally is not usefull in a group, only the debuffs are useful group-wise.

 

But overall...I would rate myself as contented with my melee/ranged arts.

 

Now...fixing Hawk Dive and Stream of Arrows would be fantastic in my humble opinion.

[BSbon]

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Lyptus wrote:
Alright, I love SOE. Despite any rumors, or gripes. Nerfs. I love SOE. Norrath is a wonderful place. =D

Now I'm not gonna point fingers here, or say you guys aren't doing your job right, because thats not fair. You guys make money doing this, and most of us, shell our dimes out to play it.

The feelings I am getting from reading these post on the ranger forum are that "There's something wrong, we're broken" Or "We're nerfed."
 
Most players aren't complaining about how much Damage we do. We do ton of damage. Its mostly about lack of Melee.

i have 7 melee attacks not including the master strikes. that's close to half of all my CAs. I use them all. 1 of them hits for over 1000 so i wouldn't call that lacking or weak. i am only level 60 and i think there's an update coming.

 I won't ever complain about my ranged dps or arrow usage. Summon Arrows is quite nice.

while the summon arrows line is very nice, a new version of this CA should be given every 10 levels and not every 14 levels. i'm currently using grey summoned arrows from my level 48 spell against level 60 content. and while i seem to have enough arrows for soloing and small grouping a raiding ranger eats up way more arrows than they can possibly summon

Something I've never had as a scout class. Every other ranger the other games I've played, had to craft them or shell out coin meant for gear to buy them. The only really big hit is gear selection at higher end. Melee CA's are a bit to weak, in my humble opinion, but I just bow Kite to make up for them.

So Rangers are "Ranged Primary"

I will vote on taking a hit to my DPS, to make up for my melee.

i counter this vote with keeping us as we are. the balance is just right for my playstyle.

Or making us more of a benefit to a group other than hard hitting abilities. Most rangers who make it to high levels feel something that they can't quite put their fingers on...I can't quite either.

Here is my take, lets get back to "Everquest" roots. Maybe not all the way, but here is what I'm talking about.
This is what I say, make a ranger more like the EQ1 Ranger. Here is a quote...

Rangers are warriors attuned to the ways of nature, able to call upon the power of the wild to aid them in their fights. Rangers are primarily a melee class, able to wear chain armor and wield many kinds of weapons.

this is still true. all of our self buffs are named like forest, wild, pathfinding and such

Rangers are scouts and hunters, able to track enemies from a great distance and engage them with deadly ranged attacks, but rangers can also fight well in a melee, using two weapons to attack their foes.

this is still true as well

Rangers have spells drawn from nature. They can increase run speed and add to an ally's armor, health or ability to attack. In a pinch, they can heal or directly damage enemies with fiery attacks.

we still have fire attacks but my EQ1 heals and buffs were [Removed for Content] and in a group or raid they often didn't stack with other classes spells cause they were gimpier.

Rangers can hunt alone or in a group, though allies allow them to best use their abilities. A ranger's bow is a welcome addition to a group, adding a good deal of damage. The ranger is a great class for players who like to engage in melee battles between trips to explore the broad expanse of Norrath.

this is also still true

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[Jay]

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Lyptus wrote:

I won't ever complain about my ranged dps or arrow usage. Summon Arrows is quite nice.

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Hehehe, I hope you bookmark this thread and come back to it in a year or so.   I didn't complain about arrow usage myself, until I was over 60 and doing instances or raids on a regular basis. And I logged in to hunt, not to craft or gather or stand around town, so I didn't have sufficient time to sit there and click that button every 10 minutes.

You know what's weird? In WoW, I can't summon any arrows - I have to buy every one I shoot. But so far (I'm level 37), they're so cheap that it doesn't matter. I just check my quiver, and if I'm short, I stop at a nearby merchant. Every general goods merchant, bowyer, fletcher, and some weapons merchants all sell arrows, and most of them sell every 'tier' of arrow that I can access. So it's not hard to find a vendor that sells them. I shell out maybe 10-20 silver for several hundred arrows, refill my quiver, and go off on my merry way with my trusty black lion by my side.

I've never really thought "oh man these arrows are breakin the bank" or anything like that. I've never bought extra arrows and filled one of my other bags with them because I was afraid to run out. I did both of these things daily when playing EQ2.

It's really that simple. Make the vendor ones nice and cheap, and/or make the summons spells create more or refresh faster. There is no reason to force Rangers into this frustrating situation, no reason at all.

[Lyptus]

Don't get me wrong about being "one with nature". lol. When I refer to buffs, something other than a run speed increase for your group would be pretty cool. I mean they would probably have to balance the class down, and [Removed for Content] to even the playing field. But I think that would be pretty cool. Will it happen, probably not. These are things that would be nice to see from a ranger. I do have to say, as the game is set right now, I don't see a balanced mix of ranged and melee abilities. But ranged being preferred, guess you got have one or the other.I do agree with most folks about the gear factor.My ranger is Level 60. lol. So I know what arrow consumption feels like raiding vs. grouping. Still have to say, not handing out money for arrows as often. Instead I save it for the raid wipes =P. Ranger is a great class to play. I can honestly say I won't play any other class. Just some of the finer details that would really make it so much cooler. The only cool thing is being the only active ranger in my guild. lol. So all the ranger masters go my way. lol. Now if I can only see a cool ranger bow someday...someday =DThanks for all the replies.

[Magius789]

I'm curious to know how many people that have responded to this post and are happy with the ranged/melee are on a PvP server?  From reading the responses I'm thinking there are few if any.  I have a lvl 57 ranger on a PvP server and I can tell you its a hard class to play.  All a player has to do is simply stand next to us and 90% of our attacks don't work.  So take away our bow attacks and there are what, maybe 7 attacks we can use, two of which have to be stealth while doing it and one of those you have to be stealthed and behind your target.  So basically thats 5 attacks...in groups with raiding or regular questing we are great.  Solo PvPing most of the times we are screwed unless its a caster and we get off our power stealthed bow attack.

 

How many others play rangers on a PvP server?

 

Privan

Lvl 57 Ranger -Storm- Venekor

[schla]

I can understand that you want more melee CAs and better ones for soloing maybe...But in groups? Raids? I quite like the fact that a ranger is not "just" a brigand with a bow. Diversity of different classes is what makes this game fun and Rangers in my mind should be all about the bow....simply because noone else are. Rangers are unigue.Its the only class I have ever been able to bear levelling past 40 and I would like to see it stay that way I have played grouping/soloing for ages but lately due to my schedule I seem to only be able to log in for the medium/high end raids that i love to do (try this leaves very little time for soloing about and grouping (miss it tho)I use melee to maximize my dps like any raiding ranger should but I don't want to get in and mix it up with the mob anymore than i have to to be honest:smileyhappy:

[Taekwondo]

I play on a PvP server also, and I have to agree, if you get melee'd then you get owned most of the time.  We can't even stand up to the other scouts in melee.  I get owned by assassins in seconds, even if I manage to get off a sniper shot, it is so nerfed down in pvp that it's not really useful.  It takes WAAAY too long to cast, and unless you were running around in stealth looking for pvp, chances are good that the other guy already saw you anyway.  I'm usually the first person FP come after, even if I am grouped, because they know that even with all my mastercrafted / legendary gear, I'm still easy to squish. 

I guess I agree with some of what most people have said about rangers needing a good looking into, but I don't think it's necessarily a CA fix or gear fix (although I would love to see more ranger only stuff, or just better scout class gear that in general), but more of a cast / recast timer fix.  I had to burn like 24 AA to reduce Sniper Shot from 15 mins to 10 mins reuse, and even that is still too long imo. 

Also, just to address the whole arrow consumption thing, I dropped 2pp (out of the 8 I had) on Adamantine arrows (because to buy cheaper is only screwing yourself out of higher dps rating, and thereby screwing your group as well) from the Bowyer merchant just before I went out to raid.  I burned through 70% of them before the raid was half over and ended up (as usual) trying to conserve by meleeing some.  If anyone thinks we can melee as well as any other scout class, then I would like to take a hit off whatever you are smoking.  I am dual-weilding legendary dropped weps, and am quickly realizing that I might as well hurl insults at the mobs.  Meleeing may be part of our CA, but it's like a half-hearted attempt and last ditch effort kinda thing.  I mean, I can slow / snare / debuff a little and I have a couple attacks and an attack with a root component, but unless I am planning to use the 2 seconds the mob is rooted to run away, I might as well just stand there and get [Removed for Content] instead so I can revive with the group.  And that's what I usually end up doing.  Even if I manage to change to defensive stance, that usually only prevents me from dying half a second sooner than I did.  I mean, the parser says that when I do ranged dps, I am usually in the top 3, but when I do melee, I actually get a large picture of a middle finger where my dps number should be.

I think it's ridiculous that we have to spend 2pp per raid (or more if you buy from players) just to keep up with others dps.  And what really gets me is that there's a Berserker in my guild that does massive...I mean MASSIVE dps...and he wears plate...so he can tank and out dps me most of the time...and there's no balance issue there?  I mean I like the guy a lot, he's a great tank, but as far as the argument for my class goes, I think that is B.S.

So yeah, my biggest complaint is that we get all these ranged attacks that we can't use if the mobs / pvpers are too close, and then we get some crap melee attacks which (even when they say 1k, you need to look at the pvp stats of the CA) don't do squat really besides give you some time to run away.  Hey, at least we still have evac...unless your armor procs you into combat while you run from the x3 FP raid who love to gather around your corpse and giggle every time they kill you in KoS because they have every cloud platform camped and can call a group together in less than a minute to bring the pain.  Bitter? No way, not me.  I just want to be able to stand toe-to-toe with any other scout class and have it come down to the wire if everything is on the same level gear / skills wise.  If someone is going to argue that "rangers are melee with a ranged ability" then where's the high avoidance / mitigation?  If I can't out punch you, then I should have learned to dodge your fist...and if I can't do that, then I should be able to outrun you and then bring you down with arrows from afar...or perhaps I should just be able to do that anyway without having to worry about getting into melee (which is a death sentence in pvp now that you can't seem to EVER find a solo or duo FP to catch unawares). 

 

[Lev]

Well I don't think we will ever see an agreement on these issues. Every Week/month we see at least 1 new topic about something being wrong with our class.It is easy to say this and that about what you want for your own class, but whenever you do that you have to keep in mind EVERY other class there is. This is why balance is so hard to maintain.I get that many people want to see the rangers as a more iconic class, but please just take a look towards swg and forget that notion right away. The word "iconic" totally ruined that game.I however still agree that we are somewhat left out of the loop. We have had some nerfs to dmg due to the fact that we get ranged attacks, however mages have ranged attacks as well and their dmg is in most cases superiour to ours, and to add to this they can shoot of their spells at melee range. Of course we are chain wearers and take a hit in dps for that, but that still doesn't justify the fact that we are being punished because we can do stuff from range, and mages are not. Summoners are still the best dps class in the game, and they more than anyone can stay away from the fight.And we have the issue with dmg vs. utility. Many find it hard to uphold our dps against other scout classes that are classified t2, which basicly means they are both dps and utility classes. Some think we should have more utility and other think we should get a boost in dps. This however is hard considering we are classified t1 and changing that would mean changing the whole game mechanic, and that would only end badly.then we have these melee vs. ranged. This relates to the word "iconic" again. As allready stated we are the only classes that need to rely on the bow, yea sure other scout and fighter classes can use it, and some even have a few CAs, but we are the only ones that NEED the bow. To debate that our melee CAs are not weak is silly, yea I know we have some very useful melee attacks, like Rangers Blade and Emberstrike, both are stealth required and one of them is behind or flank, which means they do not work in a melee situation. I think this is a futile discussion, cause it all comes down to prefrence. However it is hard to make out the difference of what you want from your class, and what your class would do to benefit the game and the balance between the classes.Our main problem right now is probably in itemization, this comes down to timesink vs. reward. Arrow and poison consumption, and bow and arrow rarity really hurt us. Now poison consumption alone is something almost every scout class needs to worrie about, but they don't have to spend cash/time on gathering arrows, and they don't need to dedicate half their inventory to arrows.A ranger with Sarnak/LoC, and t8 ammo can do good enough compared to an equally equiped Assasin. However at mastercrafted lvls the rift is bigger, and you can often be outdone by t2 scouts. I think quivers should be ALOT bigger in slot size, I think bows should be more availible (I am not saying every ranger and her mother should have a sarnak and be ranger gods, I just don't think having the best 2 best bows in the game to uphold our dps is fair), I am not sure what I think about t8 ammo, it is however kinda discouraging knowing that I need to spend alot of time gathering arrows to have enough for a raid, and that if I had one of the summoning bows I would not have to. I think it is ok that getting hold of t8 arrow is rare, however I think our summoning spells should get a boost.Sorry for my long post, and my mangle of feelings. This was not meant as a rant or a hijack, just felt like sharing my opinions, my 2c if you prefer

[Teksun]

Didn't they promise us 6-12 months ago (fan faire I'm sure) that they were 'looking into' the arrow problem? If the T8 bows are their answer, than they are just WRONG. I hate spending all my money on arrows. I think it's wrong...

[Peadar2]

Hmmm well...the OP has an interesting point I suppose...not one I entirely agree with however....if you want "More" melee then betray and become an Assassin? Seems to me the whole argument over ranged and melee is whether you are on a PvP server or a PvE server...another hot topic of some debate. I like my ranged attacks as is and I don't want to trade off those attacks for better melee attacks...if I wanted to do more melee I would have rolled a fighter class.

[Mirdo]

I guess a lot of the PvP'ers don't actually realise SoE already made changes to the Ranger class because of them. They took away the ability to use many of our CA's on the run as a direct result of the introduction of PvP. Yep, all those CA's you would like to able to cast on the run? We used to be able to do that. I guess that means that PvP Rangers are right where SoE wants them - like it or not.The class has been geared more towards Ranged in the high mid-end game for over 2 years now. I expect a few whines from PvP players isn't going to have the designers doing a complete class about-face.Mirdo.

Message Edited by Mirdo on 12-05-2006 05:53 PM

[Gareorn]

Actually, I wouldn't complain if a few of the melee skills we have now were changed to ranged skills.  But this is coming from a PvE raiding ranger point of view.  I realize that this would upset about 95% of the Rangers out there because most still need the melee skills for soloing and some types of grouping.

 

I don't want to sound selfish, but frankly, the raiding ranger has taken a ton of nerfs just to balance PvP.  Enough is enough, I don't have any sympathy for PvP needs or desires anymore.

[Taekwondo]

I realize that adjustments were made to rangers when PvP was introduced, and I can tell that some of you are bitter about that...but how do you think we feel on the PvP server?  On PvE you only have to deal with mobs attacking you, and usually only when you are in a zone where you can catch aggro because you want to...at 67 I can still get [Removed for Content] in Antonica if a raid group of freeporters comes in, so all that "whining" we are doing about how the class is geared now?  Yeah, cram it.  If you don't PvP then you have no idea how useful those "on the run" CA's were...but I'm not asking for them back.  I adapted to the situation and I still manage to do ok most of the time.  And before you start in on me, I play on PvP because I like it, but yes, there are some things that I think should be changed or fixed or improved.  And if I, or any other PvP ranger voices his / her opinion about it (just like the rest of you PvE guys) and you don't like what we have to say, then so be it, but if you are flaming us just because we are "whiny PvPers" then you can go get bent. 

[Mronin]

Here is the problem. Those of us who play PvE are cheesed off because we were told by SOE on many occasions that PvP wouldn't impact PvE play. This was an outright lie and while they don't specifically say that anymore they also continue to make changes to (for some insane reason that is beyond anyone with an ounce of technical expertise) to PvE BECAUSE of PvP. They do this while specifically ignoring PvE issues that could easily be separated out from our PvP counterparts. So yeah PvP isn't going to get a whole lot of sympathy (least of all from me) until SOE gets their collective heads out of their collective arses and begins fixing the glaring issues that exist in PvE.

[Taekwondo]

Got it.  You're mad because you can't PvE as well as you used to be able to because PvP exists.  Guess what?  WE PVE TOO.  How do you think we get the majority of our gear?  So yeah, we're a bit "cheesed off" as well bro.  The fact is, while PvE may not function as well as you would like, it's still a whole lot better than the way PvP combat works.  Just imagine that you are in Mistmoore Catacombs hunting for rare drops, you are in a group you know well and you are handling the mobs easily.  Suddenly, before you can loot the Ornate Chest that just dropped, you are attacked by a raid x2 of level 70's wearing Fabled PvP gear and they beat down the entire group in a few seconds.  You don't know what suck is, so don't cry about how PvE is suffering and try to say that PvP is somehow to blame.  If you can't PvE well, then you should find a different game to play, because that's the ONLY place I see any kind of balance going on.  As for the rest of you who think that we are just as good at melee as our scout counterparts, it's never more evident how much we depend on ranged as when you have another player trying to kill you and you can't get a shot off. 

[Jay]

Frankly, Sony's mistake was starting off and saying "EQ2 is a PvE only game, we have no plans for PvP at this time." And then later, looking at WoW and realizing that they were really shooting themselves in the foot, and saying "Okay NOW we have plans for PvP, but the rulesets will be totally different, trust us." We know how well that turned out.

 

If they were going to include PvP, it should have been planned for and included from the start. We struggle against this bizarre division in all classes due to PvP vs PvE - and since you can *only* PvP on a server basis (outside of duels), most of the population has no idea how their skills translate to PvE. The PvE players have totally legitimate problems and desires, just like the rest of us, and it's not their fault that Sony didn't plan or execute the PvP aspect of EQ2 very well.

 

In WoW, there are no separate rulesets or separate servers. (You do have PvP servers, but they just handle the PvP auto-flagging differently, so you're more vulnerable to PvP more of the time, but players on PvE servers can and do PvP on a regular basis. I'm one of them.) It's up to any individual player how much PvP they want to experience, regardless of their server (though obviously those who want more will roll on PvP servers). You don't have skills that do one thing on Server X and something different on Server Y. You do have some skills that you think "why would I need to that to an NPC mob?" and then you realize that it's more useful / effective in a PvP situation. So if you never PvP, you don't purchase or upgrade that skill, or spend the points if it's a Talent. Same is true in reverse if you're a die-hard PVPer.

 

Whereas in EQ2, we all get the same skills and have very little opportunity to customize our characters to suit our playstyles. Our AAs are about the only mechanic for that, and the AA diversity is limited at best. So we're all struggling to force the same skillset to fit two very different purposes, because the CA mechanic wasn't (to my knowledge) intended to work for PvP when it was planned in pre-release. To me, it seems PvPers would be just as frustrated, if not moreso, than PvE players, seeing as how their "side" of this game was added as an afterthought. The clumsy attempt to make PvE skills viable in PvP has been problematic for all players, PvP and PvE alike.

[Jay]

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Taekwondo wrote:
Suddenly, before you can loot the Ornate Chest that just dropped, you are attacked by a raid x2 of level 70's wearing Fabled PvP gear and they beat down the entire group in a few seconds.  You don't know what suck is, so don't cry about how PvE is suffering and try to say that PvP is somehow to blame.

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It sounds like you might be happier on a PvE server, if being in a PvP environment is this upsetting to you. You understood what you were getting when you rolled on that server, no? So don't cry about it now - either suck it up and deal, or re-roll on a carebear server and move on.

As I posted above, I don't blame PvPers for anything. I blame SOE for the problems with their game. If I were you, I'd be just as frustrated with the PvE skillset trying to do double duty when it wasn't designed to in the first place.

[Taekwondo]

"Whereas in EQ2, we all get the same skills and have very little opportunity to customize our characters to suit our playstyles. Our AAs are about the only mechanic for that, and the AA diversity is limited at best. So we're all struggling to force the same skillset to fit two very different purposes, because the CA mechanic wasn't (to my knowledge) intended to work for PvP when it was planned in pre-release. To me, it seems PvPers would be just as frustrated, if not moreso, than PvE players, seeing as how their "side" of this game was added as an afterthought. The clumsy attempt to make PvE skills viable in PvP has been problematic for all players, PvP and PvE alike." ------------------------ Yeah, I agree with that.  I hate the fact that my skills have different caps / effects in a PvP fight than they do in a PvE fight.  For example, I had a crit with Sniper Shot the other night on a mob that did over 14k dmg...but then I go out to PvP and I can maybe hit a cloth caster for 4k if they have crappy gear...once in a while I can one-shot them, but most of the time they either run away or they have a group that comes out of nowhere to root / stun me and then [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] me.  I don't know what the solution is, but I know that dropping my Sniper Shot damage cap by 6k points is not it.

[Taekwondo]

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Jay42 wrote:

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Taekwondo wrote:Suddenly, before you can loot the Ornate Chest that just dropped, you are attacked by a raid x2 of level 70's wearing Fabled PvP gear and they beat down the entire group in a few seconds.  You don't know what suck is, so don't cry about how PvE is suffering and try to say that PvP is somehow to blame.

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It sounds like you might be happier on a PvE server, if being in a PvP environment is this upsetting to you. You understood what you were getting when you rolled on that server, no? So don't cry about it now - either suck it up and deal, or re-roll on a carebear server and move on.

As I posted above, I don't blame PvPers for anything. I blame SOE for the problems with their game. If I were you, I'd be just as frustrated with the PvE skillset trying to do double duty when it wasn't designed to in the first place.

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Of course I understood that, and I said that in one of my previous posts.  I like PvPing because of the fact that it's NOT just the mobs...it's way more exciting to not know what's around the corner, and over time you get to know some of the guys on the other side because they are always PvPing and you can even say that you "hate" them because they are so good, but it's just a game and I don't get that amped up over it.  But to address your point, I'm not crying about PvP dude, I'm just trying to tell PvE players that when they say "you get no sympathy from me" it sounds pretty stupid.  You are crying about your "carebear server" not being easy enough, but you don't have to deal with the same threats we do on PvP...and when I agree with your points (or the OP's points) about how things need to be changed, or (gasp!) even give my own OPINION on them, I get attacked and told not to be a crybaby because of where I choose to play?  God forbid I try to relate some of my experiences as a PvPer to yours as a PvE.

[Magius789]

First off, lets keep things civil here, we're all rangers so we share a bond.  However I think the big frustration is that on a PvE sever you fight only when you want to.  On a PvP server you have to look over your shoulder every three seconds.  The people that play rangers on a PvE server don't understand the true meaning of pain.  You main concerns are how well you raid.  Our main concern is how to stay alive.  You might have trouble with a certain quest....we have trouble just getting to the NPC to start the quest!  PvP adds a whole new element to the game and IMO makes it more exciting.  I played on a PvE server for a few years and after I joined a PvP server I can't really see going back, it would be way to boring.  So instead of pointing fingers and saying PvE people are bitter at us PvP people because things got nerfed how about we think of idea's to get the changes we want made.  Remember it isn't our fault SOE nerfed the crap out us, it because they can't plan very well and make a good transition.  If we find the right ways to approach these problems we can get them changed, case in point...the whole evac change that SOE did was done soley because people complained and Sony got tired of hearing it.

 

Privan

Lvl 57 Ranger -Storm- Venekor

[Taekwondo]

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Magius789 wrote:

First off, lets keep things civil here, we're all rangers so we share a bond.  However I think the big frustration is that on a PvE sever you fight only when you want to.  On a PvP server you have to look over your shoulder every three seconds.  The people that play rangers on a PvE server don't understand the true meaning of pain.  You main concerns are how well you raid.  Our main concern is how to stay alive.  You might have trouble with a certain quest....we have trouble just getting to the NPC to start the quest!  PvP adds a whole new element to the game and IMO makes it more exciting.  I played on a PvE server for a few years and after I joined a PvP server I can't really see going back, it would be way to boring.  So instead of pointing fingers and saying PvE people are bitter at us PvP people because things got nerfed how about we think of idea's to get the changes we want made.  Remember it isn't our fault SOE nerfed the crap out us, it because they can't plan very well and make a good transition.  If we find the right ways to approach these problems we can get them changed, case in point...the whole evac change that SOE did was done soley because people complained and Sony got tired of hearing it.

 

Privan

Lvl 57 Ranger -Storm- Venekor

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I agree, I just tried to make a few points in my first post and then 3 people attacked PvPers (perhaps I'm a bit sensitive to that issue, playing on a PvP server does tend to make you want to fight a lot hehe) saying they were "crybabies" or "would get no sympathy"...when did we ask for any?  Or at least, any more than you PvE guys are asking for :smileytongue:

[Magius789]

I agree Taranthiel we have the same problems the PvE rangers have as well as PvP problems.  I'm not saying this to complain about the PvP servers, its a hell of a lot of fun.  So please fellow PvEers don't be bitter at us, we have the same problems as you and then some!

 

Privan

Lvl 57 Ranger -Storm- Venekor

[Gareorn]

I know that I said I don't have anymore sympathy for PVPers.  But after being told to "cram it" and to "go get bent," I've decided to re-think my position on this matter...

 

Nope, I still don't have sympathy for PvPers.

 

For what it's worth, I realize it wasn't the Rangers on PvP that was screaming for the Ranger nerfs.  It was all those other classes, who were getting their butts handed to them on a platter by the Rangers, calling for the nerfs.  Also, I don't think anyone flamed you.  You're reading too much into the posts.

[Taekwondo]

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Gareorn wrote:

I know that I said I don't have anymore sympathy for PVPers.  But after being told to "cram it" and to "go get bent," I've decided to re-think my position on this matter...

 

Nope, I still don't have sympathy for PvPers.

 

For what it's worth, I realize it wasn't the Rangers on PvP that was screaming for the Ranger nerfs.  It was all those other classes, who were getting their butts handed to them on a platter by the Rangers, calling for the nerfs.  Also, I don't think anyone flamed you.  You're reading too much into the posts.

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Yeah, I tend to take things a little too personally at times I suppose.  It just felt like people were acting like PvPers are a bunch of whiners that were moaning about how hard PvP is...the fact is, it's hard to be a ranger in PvP, and even harder to be a good ranger because even though you have ranged attacks and stealth, you really only have ranged attacks and stealth, and once you start fighting another player, stealth is kinda worthless unless you are running away. But I understand your pain on the raids...running out of arrows sucks.

[Mronin]

Well bubba before you go assuming that no one else here has ever played PvP you better check yourself. Some of us have played PvP and ditched it very quickly. I know exactly what your talking about so leave the holier than thou attitude at the door. I've played PvP and frankly the computer generated mobs are more random than 90% of the people on any PvP server. People are predictable that's why certain tactics on a PvP server are always in place when you're out in a kill zone. You think PvP is tough then leave and don't let the door hit you in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on the way out. Go enjoy stroking your ego some where else and leave us poor dumb PvE people try and come up with ways to help the whole class out instead of whining because you don't like getting ganked when you're on a raid. This should be expected as you KNOW you're on a PvP server. jesus h. some peoples children.

[BSbon]

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Magius789 wrote:

I'm curious to know how many people that have responded to this post and are happy with the ranged/melee are on a PvP server?  From reading the responses I'm thinking there are few if any.  I have a lvl 57 ranger on a PvP server and I can tell you its a hard class to play.  All a player has to do is simply stand next to us and 90% of our attacks don't work.  So take away our bow attacks and there are what, maybe 7 attacks we can use, two of which have to be stealth while doing it and one of those you have to be stealthed and behind your target.  So basically thats 5 attacks...in groups with raiding or regular questing we are great.  Solo PvPing most of the times we are screwed unless its a caster and we get off our power stealthed bow attack.

 

How many others play rangers on a PvP server?

 

Privan

Lvl 57 Ranger -Storm- Venekor

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i have not played on a pvp server so forgive me if these questions sound dumb.

1) do you have the melee CA with the 4 second root effect? does it work against players?

2) does cheap shot work on players?

3) does point blank shot work on players?

when using these i can get off 5 arrow attacks on NPC mobs and by the time i've used the third one the first is almost refreshed.

4) do you stand still and fight or constantly move? timing is everything and when you are not infront of your oponent they cant hit you (unless they are a caster of course)

[Taekwondo]

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Mronin wrote:Well bubba before you go assuming that no one else here has ever played PvP you better check yourself. Some of us have played PvP and ditched it very quickly. I know exactly what your talking about so leave the holier than thou attitude at the door. I've played PvP and frankly the computer generated mobs are more random than 90% of the people on any PvP server. People are predictable that's why certain tactics on a PvP server are always in place when you're out in a kill zone. You think PvP is tough then leave and don't let the door hit you in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on the way out. Go enjoy stroking your ego some where else and leave us poor dumb PvE people try and come up with ways to help the whole class out instead of whining because you don't like getting ganked when you're on a raid. This should be expected as you KNOW you're on a PvP server. jesus h. some peoples children.

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I better check myself?  Or what?  First of all, I never assumed anyone here had never PvP'd before, if you bothered to read through my first post, you would see that I was only trying to give the PvP perspective on the OP's comments MOST OF WHICH I AGREED WITH.  I don't know why you feel it's your duty to taunt me, but I don't appreciate the way you keep trying to say I'm acting "holier than thou" when YOU are the one that posted the comment about PvP being a drain on your fun in a PvE server.  I have played PvP games for years, so I know the scoop, and if you bothered to read most of the stuff I said earlier, you would know that.  As far as me "whining" about being ganked, I was merely pointing out how different the considerations are in a PvP environment.  I didn't intend for you to take it as a personal stab in the eye.  And don't come at me with "I've played PvP..." because you're not going to win that one, bro.  At best, you could match me game for game, at worst, you "tried out" PvP on this game, decided you didn't like it and went back to your...what did you call it? oh yeah, carebear server. I NEVER said, nor implied that PvPer's were better players or people anything else even close to that, I was merely pointing out differences.  I can't believe I am letting you irritate me this much.

[Mronin]

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Taekwondo wrote:

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Mronin wrote:Well bubba before you go assumingthat no one else here has ever played PvP you better check yourself.Some of us have played PvP and ditched it very quickly. I know exactlywhat your talking about so leave the holier than thou attitude at thedoor. I've played PvP and frankly the computer generated mobs are morerandom than 90% of the people on any PvP server. People are predictablethat's why certain tactics on a PvP server are always in place whenyou're out in a kill zone. You think PvP is tough then leave and don'tlet the door hit you in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on the wayout. Go enjoy stroking your ego some where else and leave us poor dumbPvE people try and come up with ways to help the whole class outinstead of whining because you don't like getting ganked when you're ona raid. This should be expected as you KNOW you're on a PvP server.jesus h. some peoples children.

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I better checkmyself?  Or what?  First of all, I never assumed anyone herehad never PvP'd before, if you bothered to read through my first post,you would see that I was only trying to give the PvP perspective on theOP's comments MOST OF WHICH I AGREED WITH.  I don't know why youfeel it's your duty to taunt me, but I don't appreciate the way youkeep trying to say I'm acting "holier than thou" when YOU are the onethat posted the comment about PvP being a drain on your fun in a PvEserver.  I have played PvP games for years, so I know the scoop,and if you bothered to read most of the stuff I said earlier, you wouldknow that.  As far as me "whining" about being ganked, I was merely pointing outhow different the considerations are in a PvP environment.  Ididn't intend for you to take it as a personal stab in the eye. And don't come at me with "I've played PvP..." because you're not goingto win that one, bro.  At best, you could match me game for game,at worst, you "tried out" PvP on this game, decided you didn't like itand went back to your...what did you call it? oh yeah, carebear server.I NEVER said, nor implied that PvPer's were better players or peopleanything else even close to that, I was merely pointing outdifferences.  I can't believe I am letting you irritate me thismuch.

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Probably because most ignorant blowhards know at their core what they really are. I've read your other posts and you have got to be one of the most puerile idiots I've run across in these forums in a while. kid I can absolutely assure you that the only one impressed by you "Skills" is yourself.As you can probably tell there aren't many here who give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about the "PvP perspective". Not to mention the fact that despite the drivel you just wrote, every post previous is simply you crowing either about your supposed skills or trying to tell the rest of us how we are wrong for being upset at SOE lying to us and claiming PvP wouldn't effect PvE. Now if you can bother to pull your head out of your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and do what you actually claim I am not doing, which is re-read the tripe you've posted thus far you will what I'm talking about.Edited to add that given the level of sheer idiocy you continue to display you've just made it on the ignore list. Congrats, you can stand up on the short bus tomorrow and say you've won the internet forums. Have a nice day .

Message Edited by Mronin on 12-05-2006 03:21 PM