Enough of the DPS posts plz!

Ranja · 12-07-2006, 08:02 PM

OK everyday I come into this forum there are 1 of 3 new posts that go something like this:1. Ranger DPS is fine. I parse on the top all the time. Then we find out top means 900-1000 DPS and everyone else is parsing around 500-8002. Ranger DPS sucks. The devs hate us and neglect rangers.3. Ranger DPS is fine if you have a bow that summons t8 ammo and a DR of 100+Can we stop these posts please SMILEY

Lets all agree on some central themes and call it a night. Maybe even sticky the central themes at the top SMILEY

Can we agree on:1. Rangers are fine solo and group2. Casual raiding guilds rangers are fine.3. High end raiding guilds where all other DPS is parsing 1500+ and rangers are stuck at 1200-1500 is where we have problems.TBH, there are about 1% of rangers in situation #3. Can we agree on these issues and stop with the incessant posting of my DPS is blah blah blah (insert great or bad) depending on playstyle.Stop the insanity please SMILEY

Zholain · 12-07-2006, 08:47 PM

This could not have been said more accurately without sacrificing brevity.

LoreLady · 12-07-2006, 09:22 PM

.3. High end raiding guilds where all other DPS is parsing 1500+ and rangers are stuck at 1200-1500 is where we have problems.TBH, there are about 1% of rangers in situation #3. Can we agree on these issues and stop with the incessant posting of my DPS is blah blah blah (insert great or bad) depending on playstyle.Stop the insanity please

Only part I disagree with ya on.. With our AA's (cast time aa's) our CA's go from doing about 1k CA dps average, to more around 1.4k CA average, our base t8 ammo gives us an extra 300 dps boost..I wish I had permission to show other rangers parsings and what diffrence t8 ammo makes from regular attack and being able to compare the two.. I also wish that my guild dident screw things up by splitting up - so its going to be hard to post parsings after all these patch's..Ranger is an amazing class - and anyone who whines about it either A: isent fast enough, or B: isent upgraded enough... Ranger is one of the more tougher classes to learn to master due to positioning, and quick strikes, and timing (not that others are hard).. But everything in this world takes work, and a learning curve this is no diffrent.

xandez · 12-08-2006, 12:26 PM

yah and also, you really need upgrades to shine as a ranger, eg. that fabled bow etc... you can do fine w/o em, but just fine, not great SMILEY

++Xan

Teksun · 12-08-2006, 06:23 PM

I guess I would fall into catagory two... BUT, if I were in Cat 3, wouldn't I HAVE the Ichor bow? I think my guild would Raid those zone until I did! If not, they better not complain about my DPS.Of course my guild can't clear these zones (yet) and don't complain about my DPS SMILEY

schla · 12-08-2006, 07:10 PM

I agree with you that there have been many posts on this subject and a lot of them seem to say the same thing.

But even if a minority (the #3 1%) you speak of are the only ones who are experincing problems with the class they have chosen to play - aren't they the ones who needs the forums most of all?

I love the "help me im new" posts and the great amount of help the good people here offer always - The "what do you guys think of..." posts and all the rest of em.

But at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to open a forum post and as long as people use fitting post headings I really dont see a problem unless these posts leads to personal BS and such

Colbie · 12-09-2006, 01:07 AM

No offense bud, but some of us taht play rangers, play rangers because of the fact that we love how the class plays and we simply think the class should have more DPS or DPS changes of some type. It's just how people feel about the toon they play. If people feel that the class should have more, then that's what you're going to hear about in the forums. A good example is Pally's becoming a "healer" class...you're going to see [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about that in their forums for the simple fact that alot of people play a paladin but also want to be a main tank. Bieng in ranger forums you're going to see threas about DPS. It's all rangers "have". We dont have group buffs or heals...what else is there?

Gareorn · 12-09-2006, 01:16 AM

schlamo wrote:

But at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to open a forum post and as long as people use fitting post headings I really dont see a problem unless these posts leads to personal BS and such

Some of us can't help ourselves. It's an addiction.

Off to my weekly "on and on anon" meeting...

My name is Gareorn and I've been post free for 20 minutes...

Edit: Almost forgot. I've fallen into all three catagories depending on who I'm arguing with at the time.

Message Edited by Gareorn on 12-08-2006 12:20 PM

kartikeya · 12-09-2006, 01:29 AM

Something that I think a whole lot of folks here keep overlooking is that the T8 ammo being necessary to match other classes DPS is a very, very, very BAD thing, and not only for reasons that I've seen stated.

In six months, we'll likely have another expansion, and almost certainly a level cap increase. T8 ammo will be standard for the tier, whether you summon it, your bow summons it, or a merchant sells it to you. What will that ammo mean then? Will we get bows that summon T9 arrows?

No matter how you look at it, it's a screwed up precedent that in order to match (and in some cases, not even that) other classes damage output, classes that often have lots of neat little toys on the side to help with the fight that we don't, we need one extremely rare bow, and one of two other extremely rare bows that summon arrows that are an entire TIER higher. This is like a level 70 tank class only being able to match up to other tanks by somehow managing to wear level 80 armor. Or a mage that can only match the damage of other classes by casting a level 80 spell. There's something very, very wrong with that, regardless of what side of the DPS fence you sit on. And come T8, we might well have the bottom dropped out from under us again if the underlying issues aren't addressed.

dancer · 12-09-2006, 02:57 AM

dunno, i have a mix of legendary and fabled.. am on my 2nd lvl 70 ranger, and have all spells master except 4 which are adept 3 and i still get consistantly smoked by assassins, periodically smoked by bruisers.. and back and forth with summoners. All while using mastercrafted t7 poisons. I guess rangers are where they are suposed to be? /cough

Masuri_Sukawa · 12-09-2006, 03:23 AM

Gareorn wrote:

Some of us can't help ourselves. It's an addiction.

Off to my weekly "on and on anon" meeting...

My name is Gareorn and I've been post free for 20 minutes...

Edit: Almost forgot. I've fallen into all three catagories depending on who I'm arguing with at the time.

Message Edited by Gareorn on 12-08-2006 12:20 PM

Haha, excellent quote, sir. I L O L'd. SMILEY

Peadar2 · 12-09-2006, 03:28 AM

Hmmm well I may get flamed for my response but ya know? I've been playing a Ranger for the last 6 months and I read these forums nearly daily in hopes of getting some useful infomation. I must say I really don't care about parsing in the top 2 or 3. I do decent DPS and I bring my "A" game to every fight. I don't care if Assasins or Necros or whoever do more damage than me, good for them...if I wanted do to as much damage I'd betray or roll a new toon. I have fun playing my toon with my friends. Do I think some changes need to made to the Ranger class? you bet I do...but its not all about DPS! Besides when this forum gets bogged down in the old DPS argument it really only pertains to those with fabled gear and T8 ammo. The average ranger I think is quite happy with his/her choice...I get tired of reading about the Ranger who is envious of the Hardcore raider that brags about his DPS with all the bells and whistles they have equiped. I'm not a raider by any strecth and I doubt I will ever see the Sarnak War Bow or be able to Summon T8 arrows...but that won't stop me from having fun with my toon and enjoying the game. Fortunately for me I don't need to be the best, have the best...I'm here to have fun....it is a game afterall SMILEY

Taekwondo · 12-09-2006, 03:29 AM

kartikeya wrote:

Something that I think a whole lot of folks here keep overlooking is that the T8 (I see this term getting tossed around a lot as if it's something new to the game, but you do realize that level 70 is t8, right? so, having level appropriate ammo is a reasonable thing, at least to me) ammo being necessary to match other classes DPS is a very, very, very BAD thing, and not only for reasons that I've seen stated.

In six months, we'll likely have another expansion, and almost certainly a level cap increase. T8 ammo will be standard for the tier, whether you summon it, your bow summons it, or a merchant sells it to you. What will that ammo mean then? Will we get bows that summon T9 arrows? (hopefully, if they increase the level cap to 80, then the answer should be yes)

No matter how you look at it, it's a screwed up precedent that in order to match (and in some cases, not even that) other classes damage output, classes that often have lots of neat little toys on the side to help with the fight that we don't, we need one extremely rare bow, and one of two other extremely rare bows that summon arrows that are an entire TIER higher. This is like a level 70 tank class only being able to match up to other tanks by somehow managing to wear level 80 armor. (no, level 80 is t9, just because t8 is hard to get, and i'll probably not see it any time soon, doesn't mean it's absurd) Or a mage that can only match the damage of other classes by casting a level 80 spell. (again, 80 is t9, 70 is t8, 60-69 is t7) There's something very, very wrong with that, regardless of what side of the DPS fence you sit on. And come T8, we might well have the bottom dropped out from under us again if the underlying issues aren't addressed.

Gerdos · 12-09-2006, 03:52 AM

Actually, Kartikeya brings up a very good point. He's also correct.

At tier7, Rangers fall short on dps if they are solely reliant on their CA/AA, at a level where they can be cosidered T1 DPS class. To bridge the DPS gap, we need the benefit of an arrow that is a tier ahead (and legendary) of the current game mechanics. On this basis alone, this is merely a short term fix ... short term, until the next tier expansion is released. Nor do i believe they will introduce new arrows a whole tier ahead with the next expansion (if ever again). Should this be a concern, to an extent, the answer is yes. Should we give it much thought, /shrug, for me, no.

If there's 1 thing we have learnt, each new expansion brings in new elements to the game, some good, some bad ... but we all learn to adapt. If there's any kinks in the mechanics ... they are generally fixed within a few weeks.

dancer · 12-09-2006, 04:07 AM

also we shoudl be balanced on our dmg alone, not taking poisons we have to PAY for into the equasion. And from what i gather, ammo doesnt affect CA dmg (dumb i know) only auto attack damage, and how often are we really auto attacking ranged? Not very so i dont think ammo is the issue. flat out w're supposed to be t1 dps, its why alot of folks made a ranger, it was the appeal ffs. Those folks are the ones complaining that you have to be end game and some, to match a casual assassin or casual sorcerers dps. Not cool.

Balerius · 12-09-2006, 04:30 AM

dancerfe wrote:

also we shoudl be balanced on our dmg alone, not taking poisons we have to PAY for into the equasion. And from what i gather, ammo doesnt affect CA dmg (dumb i know) only auto attack damage, and how often are we really auto attacking ranged? Not very so i dont think ammo is the issue. flat out w're supposed to be t1 dps, its why alot of folks made a ranger, it was the appeal ffs. Those folks are the ones complaining that you have to be end game and some, to match a casual assassin or casual sorcerers dps. Not cool.

Actually, with a good bow and good ammunition, your ranged autoattack can do 40%-60% of your total damage on a reasonably long fight (the range of damage being dependent upon how you "fight" your toon). Now your mileage may vary, but one of the keys to dps to balance the mix/sequence of your bow autoattacks, bow CAs, melee CAs, and even melee autoattacks in the most optimal way to achieve the highest dps.

Gerdos · 12-09-2006, 04:35 AM

Auto-attack does make a difference. Accounts for 30-40% of our dps. Weapon and Bow quality, haste and dps buffs all affect auto-attacks ... and for rangers, arrow quality has a big impact at T7.

Poisons, i dont have a problem with. I can live with paying for them (1/3 of my poisons suppllied by guild/ies). We dont use poisons to reach T1 dps to match our fellow scouts, but to match those finger pointing, dress wearers. What poisons do besides offering dps, is allow us to fine tune our immediate needs. Consider poisons our own unique utility of sorts, providing: high dmg buff, health or power regen, slows, roots, variety in debuffs.

Poisons are part and parcel of being a scout, inherent in the game design and game balancing mechanics since day 1 ... a neccessity. Being a dps scout is costly, being a dps ranger more so. There are other dps classes that aren't so expensive to maintain .. but i wouldn't swap places with them given the versatility and fun i have playing a ranger.

Stormcrest · 12-09-2006, 04:59 AM

Meh... don't feel like beating a dead horse. :p

Message Edited by Knightcrest on 12-08-2006 04:18 PM

dancer · 12-09-2006, 05:00 AM

i must suck then, cause between using my CA's and my CA's refreshing/being able to be used again, i might have.. 1 autoattack shot go off... so.. why use CA's at all your saying? or just use the big ones such as culling/sniper/rain and then auto the rest of the fight till they refresh?

Stormcrest · 12-09-2006, 05:12 AM

dancerfe wrote:
i must suck then, cause between using my CA's and my CA's refreshing/being able to be used again, i might have.. 1 autoattack shot go off... so.. why use CA's at all your saying? or just use the big ones such as culling/sniper/rain and then auto the rest of the fight till they refresh?

If you are fighting a solo mob, then yes, you probably only have a couple go off in a fight. By the time the mob gets to you, you have already probably burned it most of the way down.In groups fighting heroics or in a raid, I bet your auto-attack is going off more than you think. It queues and fires between CA's. The timing comes in when knowing when to let an extra auto-attack go off and/or melee while the CA's are refreshing... using the one that will add to your dps the most according to the situation.

Mirdo · 12-09-2006, 05:18 AM

schlamo wrote:

I agree with you that there have been many posts on this subject and a lot of them seem to say the same thing.

But even if a minority (the #3 1%) you speak of are the only ones who are experincing problems with the class they have chosen to play - aren't they the ones who needs the forums most of all?

I love the "help me im new" posts and the great amount of help the good people here offer always - The "what do you guys think of..." posts and all the rest of em.

But at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to open a forum post and as long as people use fitting post headings I really dont see a problem unless these posts leads to personal BS and such

DJ - help me, I'm new SMILEY

M.

schla · 12-09-2006, 06:06 AM

First off Mirdo get some steroids or grow Fae wings...longbow in halfling hands scrapes the ground when we engage a fight even tho you wont admit it. Maybe if your nice to Ofy you can sit on her shoulders as a backup plan.Secondly CUT THOSE WHISKERS MAN!! (you can borrow some of my twig hair-adornments if u ask nice)Thirdly gimme your bow you little aggro-grabber! SMILEY

LoreLady · 12-09-2006, 07:05 AM

Gerdos wrote:

Actually, Kartikeya brings up a very good point. He's also correct.

At tier7, Rangers fall short on dps if they are solely reliant on their CA/AA, at a level where they can be cosidered T1 DPS class. To bridge the DPS gap, we need the benefit of an arrow that is a tier ahead (and legendary) of the current game mechanics. On this basis alone, this is merely a short term fix ... short term, until the next tier expansion is released. Nor do i believe they will introduce new arrows a whole tier ahead with the next expansion (if ever again). Should this be a concern, to an extent, the answer is yes. Should we give it much thought, /shrug, for me, no.

If there's 1 thing we have learnt, each new expansion brings in new elements to the game, some good, some bad ... but we all learn to adapt. If there's any kinks in the mechanics ... they are generally fixed within a few weeks.

It hurts to read - and im calling it a night after this post.. LONG DAY.. Anyways, that aside..

The t8 ammo is both a blessing and a curse - in KoS it was purely to provide ballance between rangers/assassins.. In t8 - it is a boost with all your AA's, the diffrence is we dont get "as good" adornments(however you spell it) with our bows for damage.. While we still get usefull ones - they are... diffrent... I wouldent go saying that rangers are a broken class, because remember theres a 45+ damage to EACH heatspell used, so thats ANOTHER damage spike on precise shot, shocking thrust, snipers shot, vieled fire.. No we dont get the + to damage on our bow (cept for the +25 dmg) - but, sony does need to do something to (dare I say it) "nerf" rangers adornments to be onpar with t8 ammo.

Oh btw - a quick short story for today because it made me laugh.. I was in a new EoF zone when this 70 assassin whos legendary geared starts harping on me about being a ranger on how they suck - so I did my lil(long) speach on how things are fine now.. So he kept going on so I just said 'shutup and get out the parser" - and I ate the kid alive - I was holding a good 1.8k+ dps that group, he was holding.... maybe 600! And btw, I was the only other dps in that group..

Caliga · 12-09-2006, 02:44 PM

*raises hand* I disagree. I think we should keep whining until they increase our dps, or give us ports, heals and pets, whichever they decide is best.

Caliga · 12-09-2006, 02:50 PM

Peadar2 wrote:
Hmmm well I may get flamed for my response but ya know? I've been playing a Ranger for the last 6 months and I read these forums nearly daily in hopes of getting some useful infomation. I must say I really don't care about parsing in the top 2 or 3. I do decent DPS and I bring my "A" game to every fight. I don't care if Assasins or Necros or whoever do more damage than me, good for them...if I wanted do to as much damage I'd betray or roll a new toon. I have fun playing my toon with my friends. Do I think some changes need to made to the Ranger class? you bet I do...but its not all about DPS! Besides when this forum gets bogged down in the old DPS argument it really only pertains to those with fabled gear and T8 ammo. The average ranger I think is quite happy with his/her choice...I get tired of reading about the Ranger who is envious of the Hardcore raider that brags about his DPS with all the bells and whistles they have equiped. I'm not a raider by any strecth and I doubt I will ever see the Sarnak War Bow or be able to Summon T8 arrows...but that won't stop me from having fun with my toon and enjoying the game. Fortunately for me I don't need to be the best, have the best...I'm here to have fun....it is a game afterall

A lot of the people still weeping leveled up a ranger for the soul reason that it was a dps monster (there was a little bug with poison and arrows that they left in the game for about a year). You came after the damage was done so you don't feel the pain as deeply as some of the old guard. You didn't go from king of the hill to king of the ant hill. No one wants to get to 70 (actually it was 60 at the time) to lose their one purpose for getting there. Plus its perfectly find to be a medicore dpser (because thats what you are if you parse third) if you have something else to offer the group. We don't. We have like one buff and evac, oh wait, we can open chests... Face it, without high dps we're just sexy folks with a bow.

LoreLady · 12-09-2006, 09:17 PM

I just dont want to be compared be known as the whiny class SMILEY

dancer · 12-09-2006, 10:38 PM

we're only called the whiny class by other classes that dont have a reason to whine /boggle

theres probably a reason they arent playing a ranger atm =p

Teksun · 12-09-2006, 10:52 PM

pinkdove80 wrote:
Face it, without high dps we're just sexy folks with a bow.

and THAT's enough for me SMILEY

LoreLady · 12-10-2006, 01:12 AM

I'll take being sexy and leave it as that.

Tseri · 12-10-2006, 09:08 PM

/pose

12-07-2006, 08:02 PM	#1
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	OK everyday I come into this forum there are 1 of 3 new posts that go something like this:1. Ranger DPS is fine. I parse on the top all the time. Then we find out top means 900-1000 DPS and everyone else is parsing around 500-8002. Ranger DPS sucks. The devs hate us and neglect rangers.3. Ranger DPS is fine if you have a bow that summons t8 ammo and a DR of 100+Can we stop these posts pleaseLets all agree on some central themes and call it a night. Maybe even sticky the central themes at the topCan we agree on:1. Rangers are fine solo and group2. Casual raiding guilds rangers are fine.3. High end raiding guilds where all other DPS is parsing 1500+ and rangers are stuck at 1200-1500 is where we have problems.TBH, there are about 1% of rangers in situation #3. Can we agree on these issues and stop with the incessant posting of my DPS is blah blah blah (insert great or bad) depending on playstyle.Stop the insanity please __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

12-07-2006, 08:47 PM	#2
Zholain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 641	This could not have been said more accurately without sacrificing brevity. __________________

12-08-2006, 12:26 PM	#4
xandez Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,044	yah and also, you really need upgrades to shine as a ranger, eg. that fabled bow etc... you can do fine w/o em, but just fine, not great ++Xan __________________ One can survive everything, nowadays, except death, and live down everything except a good reputation.

12-08-2006, 06:23 PM	#5
Teksun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,048	I guess I would fall into catagory two... BUT, if I were in Cat 3, wouldn't I HAVE the Ichor bow? I think my guild would Raid those zone until I did! If not, they better not complain about my DPS.Of course my guild can't clear these zones (yet) and don't complain about my DPS __________________ Nerf the Hobbits

12-08-2006, 07:10 PM	#6
schla Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 50	I agree with you that there have been many posts on this subject and a lot of them seem to say the same thing. But even if a minority (the #3 1%) you speak of are the only ones who are experincing problems with the class they have chosen to play - aren't they the ones who needs the forums most of all? I love the "help me im new" posts and the great amount of help the good people here offer always - The "what do you guys think of..." posts and all the rest of em. But at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to open a forum post and as long as people use fitting post headings I really dont see a problem unless these posts leads to personal BS and such __________________ Djax Quintana, RRR - Ranger, Remnant, Runnyeye

12-07-2006, 09:22 PM	#3
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	.3. High end raiding guilds where all other DPS is parsing 1500+ and rangers are stuck at 1200-1500 is where we have problems.TBH, there are about 1% of rangers in situation #3. Can we agree on these issues and stop with the incessant posting of my DPS is blah blah blah (insert great or bad) depending on playstyle.Stop the insanity please Only part I disagree with ya on.. With our AA's (cast time aa's) our CA's go from doing about 1k CA dps average, to more around 1.4k CA average, our base t8 ammo gives us an extra 300 dps boost..I wish I had permission to show other rangers parsings and what diffrence t8 ammo makes from regular attack and being able to compare the two.. I also wish that my guild dident screw things up by splitting up - so its going to be hard to post parsings after all these patch's..Ranger is an amazing class - and anyone who whines about it either A: isent fast enough, or B: isent upgraded enough... Ranger is one of the more tougher classes to learn to master due to positioning, and quick strikes, and timing (not that others are hard).. But everything in this world takes work, and a learning curve this is no diffrent. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

12-09-2006, 01:07 AM	#7
Colbie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	No offense bud, but some of us taht play rangers, play rangers because of the fact that we love how the class plays and we simply think the class should have more DPS or DPS changes of some type. It's just how people feel about the toon they play. If people feel that the class should have more, then that's what you're going to hear about in the forums. A good example is Pally's becoming a "healer" class...you're going to see [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about that in their forums for the simple fact that alot of people play a paladin but also want to be a main tank. Bieng in ranger forums you're going to see threas about DPS. It's all rangers "have". We dont have group buffs or heals...what else is there? __________________ Colbie 70 Ranger of The Bekwen Alliance 70 Woodworker KoS Achievments - STR 2 Agi 4,6,4,8,2 Int 6,4,4,8,2 (50) EoF Achievments - PS(5),TV(5),Sel(5),RoA(5),DA(1) CP(5) DoT(3),Snar(5),Foc(5),HR(5),Ext(1) (50)

12-09-2006, 01:16 AM	#8
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	schlamo wrote: But at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to open a forum post and as long as people use fitting post headings I really dont see a problem unless these posts leads to personal BS and such Some of us can't help ourselves. It's an addiction. Off to my weekly "on and on anon" meeting... My name is Gareorn and I've been post free for 20 minutes... Edit: Almost forgot. I've fallen into all three catagories depending on who I'm arguing with at the time. Message Edited by Gareorn on 12-08-2006 12:20 PM __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

12-09-2006, 01:29 AM	#9
kartikeya Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 387	Something that I think a whole lot of folks here keep overlooking is that the T8 ammo being necessary to match other classes DPS is a very, very, very BAD thing, and not only for reasons that I've seen stated. In six months, we'll likely have another expansion, and almost certainly a level cap increase. T8 ammo will be standard for the tier, whether you summon it, your bow summons it, or a merchant sells it to you. What will that ammo mean then? Will we get bows that summon T9 arrows? No matter how you look at it, it's a screwed up precedent that in order to match (and in some cases, not even that) other classes damage output, classes that often have lots of neat little toys on the side to help with the fight that we don't, we need one extremely rare bow, and one of two other extremely rare bows that summon arrows that are an entire TIER higher. This is like a level 70 tank class only being able to match up to other tanks by somehow managing to wear level 80 armor. Or a mage that can only match the damage of other classes by casting a level 80 spell. There's something very, very wrong with that, regardless of what side of the DPS fence you sit on. And come T8, we might well have the bottom dropped out from under us again if the underlying issues aren't addressed. __________________

12-09-2006, 02:57 AM	#10
dancer General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39	dunno, i have a mix of legendary and fabled.. am on my 2nd lvl 70 ranger, and have all spells master except 4 which are adept 3 and i still get consistantly smoked by assassins, periodically smoked by bruisers.. and back and forth with summoners. All while using mastercrafted t7 poisons. I guess rangers are where they are suposed to be? /cough

12-09-2006, 03:23 AM	#11
Masuri_Sukawa Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	Gareorn wrote: Some of us can't help ourselves. It's an addiction. Off to my weekly "on and on anon" meeting... My name is Gareorn and I've been post free for 20 minutes... Edit: Almost forgot. I've fallen into all three catagories depending on who I'm arguing with at the time. Message Edited by Gareorn on 12-08-2006 12:20 PM Haha, excellent quote, sir. I L O L'd.

12-09-2006, 03:28 AM	#12
Peadar2 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 33	Hmmm well I may get flamed for my response but ya know? I've been playing a Ranger for the last 6 months and I read these forums nearly daily in hopes of getting some useful infomation. I must say I really don't care about parsing in the top 2 or 3. I do decent DPS and I bring my "A" game to every fight. I don't care if Assasins or Necros or whoever do more damage than me, good for them...if I wanted do to as much damage I'd betray or roll a new toon. I have fun playing my toon with my friends. Do I think some changes need to made to the Ranger class? you bet I do...but its not all about DPS! Besides when this forum gets bogged down in the old DPS argument it really only pertains to those with fabled gear and T8 ammo. The average ranger I think is quite happy with his/her choice...I get tired of reading about the Ranger who is envious of the Hardcore raider that brags about his DPS with all the bells and whistles they have equiped. I'm not a raider by any strecth and I doubt I will ever see the Sarnak War Bow or be able to Summon T8 arrows...but that won't stop me from having fun with my toon and enjoying the game. Fortunately for me I don't need to be the best, have the best...I'm here to have fun....it is a game afterall

12-09-2006, 03:29 AM	#13
Taekwondo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	kartikeya wrote: Something that I think a whole lot of folks here keep overlooking is that the T8 (I see this term getting tossed around a lot as if it's something new to the game, but you do realize that level 70 is t8, right? so, having level appropriate ammo is a reasonable thing, at least to me) ammo being necessary to match other classes DPS is a very, very, very BAD thing, and not only for reasons that I've seen stated. In six months, we'll likely have another expansion, and almost certainly a level cap increase. T8 ammo will be standard for the tier, whether you summon it, your bow summons it, or a merchant sells it to you. What will that ammo mean then? Will we get bows that summon T9 arrows? (hopefully, if they increase the level cap to 80, then the answer should be yes) No matter how you look at it, it's a screwed up precedent that in order to match (and in some cases, not even that) other classes damage output, classes that often have lots of neat little toys on the side to help with the fight that we don't, we need one extremely rare bow, and one of two other extremely rare bows that summon arrows that are an entire TIER higher. This is like a level 70 tank class only being able to match up to other tanks by somehow managing to wear level 80 armor. (no, level 80 is t9, just because t8 is hard to get, and i'll probably not see it any time soon, doesn't mean it's absurd) Or a mage that can only match the damage of other classes by casting a level 80 spell. (again, 80 is t9, 70 is t8, 60-69 is t7) There's something very, very wrong with that, regardless of what side of the DPS fence you sit on. And come T8, we might well have the bottom dropped out from under us again if the underlying issues aren't addressed. __________________ Taekwondo Kwajangnim 63 Monk - Drinal (Tarew Marr) server EQ1 Booris Yeltsin Master Bounty Hunter - SWG Wulfgren 60 Tauren Warrior Bloodguard - WoW (Pre-Battlegrounds) Vulcan Grandmaster Maceman - UO (Pre-Second Age)

12-09-2006, 03:52 AM	#14
Gerdos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 236	Actually, Kartikeya brings up a very good point. He's also correct. At tier7, Rangers fall short on dps if they are solely reliant on their CA/AA, at a level where they can be cosidered T1 DPS class. To bridge the DPS gap, we need the benefit of an arrow that is a tier ahead (and legendary) of the current game mechanics. On this basis alone, this is merely a short term fix ... short term, until the next tier expansion is released. Nor do i believe they will introduce new arrows a whole tier ahead with the next expansion (if ever again). Should this be a concern, to an extent, the answer is yes. Should we give it much thought, /shrug, for me, no. If there's 1 thing we have learnt, each new expansion brings in new elements to the game, some good, some bad ... but we all learn to adapt. If there's any kinks in the mechanics ... they are generally fixed within a few weeks.

12-09-2006, 04:07 AM	#15
dancer General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39	also we shoudl be balanced on our dmg alone, not taking poisons we have to PAY for into the equasion. And from what i gather, ammo doesnt affect CA dmg (dumb i know) only auto attack damage, and how often are we really auto attacking ranged? Not very so i dont think ammo is the issue. flat out w're supposed to be t1 dps, its why alot of folks made a ranger, it was the appeal ffs. Those folks are the ones complaining that you have to be end game and some, to match a casual assassin or casual sorcerers dps. Not cool.

12-09-2006, 04:30 AM	#16
Balerius Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 259	dancerfe wrote: also we shoudl be balanced on our dmg alone, not taking poisons we have to PAY for into the equasion. And from what i gather, ammo doesnt affect CA dmg (dumb i know) only auto attack damage, and how often are we really auto attacking ranged? Not very so i dont think ammo is the issue. flat out w're supposed to be t1 dps, its why alot of folks made a ranger, it was the appeal ffs. Those folks are the ones complaining that you have to be end game and some, to match a casual assassin or casual sorcerers dps. Not cool. Actually, with a good bow and good ammunition, your ranged autoattack can do 40%-60% of your total damage on a reasonably long fight (the range of damage being dependent upon how you "fight" your toon). Now your mileage may vary, but one of the keys to dps to balance the mix/sequence of your bow autoattacks, bow CAs, melee CAs, and even melee autoattacks in the most optimal way to achieve the highest dps.

12-09-2006, 04:35 AM	#17
Gerdos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 236	Auto-attack does make a difference. Accounts for 30-40% of our dps. Weapon and Bow quality, haste and dps buffs all affect auto-attacks ... and for rangers, arrow quality has a big impact at T7. Poisons, i dont have a problem with. I can live with paying for them (1/3 of my poisons suppllied by guild/ies). We dont use poisons to reach T1 dps to match our fellow scouts, but to match those finger pointing, dress wearers. What poisons do besides offering dps, is allow us to fine tune our immediate needs. Consider poisons our own unique utility of sorts, providing: high dmg buff, health or power regen, slows, roots, variety in debuffs. Poisons are part and parcel of being a scout, inherent in the game design and game balancing mechanics since day 1 ... a neccessity. Being a dps scout is costly, being a dps ranger more so. There are other dps classes that aren't so expensive to maintain .. but i wouldn't swap places with them given the versatility and fun i have playing a ranger.

12-09-2006, 04:59 AM	#18
Stormcrest Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 64	Meh... don't feel like beating a dead horse. :p Message Edited by Knightcrest on 12-08-2006 04:18 PM __________________

12-09-2006, 05:00 AM	#19
dancer General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39	i must suck then, cause between using my CA's and my CA's refreshing/being able to be used again, i might have.. 1 autoattack shot go off... so.. why use CA's at all your saying? or just use the big ones such as culling/sniper/rain and then auto the rest of the fight till they refresh?

12-09-2006, 05:12 AM	#20
Stormcrest Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 64	dancerfe wrote: i must suck then, cause between using my CA's and my CA's refreshing/being able to be used again, i might have.. 1 autoattack shot go off... so.. why use CA's at all your saying? or just use the big ones such as culling/sniper/rain and then auto the rest of the fight till they refresh? If you are fighting a solo mob, then yes, you probably only have a couple go off in a fight. By the time the mob gets to you, you have already probably burned it most of the way down.In groups fighting heroics or in a raid, I bet your auto-attack is going off more than you think. It queues and fires between CA's. The timing comes in when knowing when to let an extra auto-attack go off and/or melee while the CA's are refreshing... using the one that will add to your dps the most according to the situation. __________________

12-09-2006, 05:18 AM	#21
Mirdo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 395	schlamo wrote: I agree with you that there have been many posts on this subject and a lot of them seem to say the same thing. But even if a minority (the #3 1%) you speak of are the only ones who are experincing problems with the class they have chosen to play - aren't they the ones who needs the forums most of all? I love the "help me im new" posts and the great amount of help the good people here offer always - The "what do you guys think of..." posts and all the rest of em. But at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to open a forum post and as long as people use fitting post headings I really dont see a problem unless these posts leads to personal BS and such DJ - help me, I'm new M.

12-09-2006, 06:06 AM	#22
schla Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 50	First off Mirdo get some steroids or grow Fae wings...longbow in halfling hands scrapes the ground when we engage a fight even tho you wont admit it. Maybe if your nice to Ofy you can sit on her shoulders as a backup plan.Secondly CUT THOSE WHISKERS MAN!! (you can borrow some of my twig hair-adornments if u ask nice)Thirdly gimme your bow you little aggro-grabber! __________________ Djax Quintana, RRR - Ranger, Remnant, Runnyeye

12-09-2006, 07:05 AM	#23
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	Gerdos wrote: Actually, Kartikeya brings up a very good point. He's also correct. At tier7, Rangers fall short on dps if they are solely reliant on their CA/AA, at a level where they can be cosidered T1 DPS class. To bridge the DPS gap, we need the benefit of an arrow that is a tier ahead (and legendary) of the current game mechanics. On this basis alone, this is merely a short term fix ... short term, until the next tier expansion is released. Nor do i believe they will introduce new arrows a whole tier ahead with the next expansion (if ever again). Should this be a concern, to an extent, the answer is yes. Should we give it much thought, /shrug, for me, no. If there's 1 thing we have learnt, each new expansion brings in new elements to the game, some good, some bad ... but we all learn to adapt. If there's any kinks in the mechanics ... they are generally fixed within a few weeks. It hurts to read - and im calling it a night after this post.. LONG DAY.. Anyways, that aside.. The t8 ammo is both a blessing and a curse - in KoS it was purely to provide ballance between rangers/assassins.. In t8 - it is a boost with all your AA's, the diffrence is we dont get "as good" adornments(however you spell it) with our bows for damage.. While we still get usefull ones - they are... diffrent... I wouldent go saying that rangers are a broken class, because remember theres a 45+ damage to EACH heatspell used, so thats ANOTHER damage spike on precise shot, shocking thrust, snipers shot, vieled fire.. No we dont get the + to damage on our bow (cept for the +25 dmg) - but, sony does need to do something to (dare I say it) "nerf" rangers adornments to be onpar with t8 ammo. Oh btw - a quick short story for today because it made me laugh.. I was in a new EoF zone when this 70 assassin whos legendary geared starts harping on me about being a ranger on how they suck - so I did my lil(long) speach on how things are fine now.. So he kept going on so I just said 'shutup and get out the parser" - and I ate the kid alive - I was holding a good 1.8k+ dps that group, he was holding.... maybe 600! And btw, I was the only other dps in that group.. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

12-09-2006, 02:44 PM	#24
Caliga Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 355	raises hand I disagree. I think we should keep whining until they increase our dps, or give us ports, heals and pets, whichever they decide is best. __________________

12-09-2006, 02:50 PM	#25
Caliga Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 355	Peadar2 wrote: Hmmm well I may get flamed for my response but ya know? I've been playing a Ranger for the last 6 months and I read these forums nearly daily in hopes of getting some useful infomation. I must say I really don't care about parsing in the top 2 or 3. I do decent DPS and I bring my "A" game to every fight. I don't care if Assasins or Necros or whoever do more damage than me, good for them...if I wanted do to as much damage I'd betray or roll a new toon. I have fun playing my toon with my friends. Do I think some changes need to made to the Ranger class? you bet I do...but its not all about DPS! Besides when this forum gets bogged down in the old DPS argument it really only pertains to those with fabled gear and T8 ammo. The average ranger I think is quite happy with his/her choice...I get tired of reading about the Ranger who is envious of the Hardcore raider that brags about his DPS with all the bells and whistles they have equiped. I'm not a raider by any strecth and I doubt I will ever see the Sarnak War Bow or be able to Summon T8 arrows...but that won't stop me from having fun with my toon and enjoying the game. Fortunately for me I don't need to be the best, have the best...I'm here to have fun....it is a game afterall A lot of the people still weeping leveled up a ranger for the soul reason that it was a dps monster (there was a little bug with poison and arrows that they left in the game for about a year). You came after the damage was done so you don't feel the pain as deeply as some of the old guard. You didn't go from king of the hill to king of the ant hill. No one wants to get to 70 (actually it was 60 at the time) to lose their one purpose for getting there. Plus its perfectly find to be a medicore dpser (because thats what you are if you parse third) if you have something else to offer the group. We don't. We have like one buff and evac, oh wait, we can open chests... Face it, without high dps we're just sexy folks with a bow. __________________

12-09-2006, 09:17 PM	#26
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	I just dont want to be compared be known as the whiny class __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

12-09-2006, 10:38 PM	#27
dancer General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 39	we're only called the whiny class by other classes that dont have a reason to whine /boggle theres probably a reason they arent playing a ranger atm =p

12-09-2006, 10:52 PM	#28
Teksun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,048	pinkdove80 wrote: Face it, without high dps we're just sexy folks with a bow. and THAT's enough for me __________________ Nerf the Hobbits

12-10-2006, 01:12 AM	#29
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	I'll take being sexy and leave it as that. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

12-10-2006, 09:08 PM	#30
Tseri Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 63	/pose __________________