Please help me choose between a Dirge and an Assassin

Ohnir · 02-15-2006, 01:04 AM

I would like some feedback from those who played both a Dirge and an Assassin, or are well familiar with both from group experience. I would like to draw from your experience before I invest many hours in my character and regret my choice. First, some basic background: I am a “casual” player, roleplayer, who prefers groups and will probably only reach mid-level content (30s). I usually do not have much money since I am generous both as a group member and as a merchant. I prefer to do quests and dungeons, and not experience farming. I have tested both classes to level 10.

Here are some questions:

Is Assassin a lot more expensive to maintain than a Dirge? I understand that an Assassin relies on his poisons for adequate DPS, and I hear that those can get very expensive at the higher levels. Dirge does not have that problem [edited following one of the answers, thank you!]. Any significant differences?
Besides the utility of buffs, does a Dirge actually feel useful in the middle of a fight while grouping? Do you get to have a lot of action as a Dirge, or is that limited to Assassins with their stealth strikes and various positioning work? Is a Dirge's DPS always too little to be noticed?
How capable are both classes to get out of trouble. Assassins have their stealth out of combat abilities and hate transfers, do Dirges have equally effective means of escape?
Is a Dirge run speed much faster than an Assassin, and will it allow you to explore more with less downtime (mounts excluded). Is the stealth ability at the same level equally powerful if you want to sneak by?
Anything else that I might have overlooked that makes one regret their decision of one versus the other when it comes to being able to enjoy the game and see as much as possible while having limited time/resources and wanting to spend much time in groups.

Thank you for your time!

Message Edited by Ohnir on 02-14-200612:26 PM

Priestbane · 02-15-2006, 01:15 AM

1. Poison is expensive. Not prohibitively so. Both classes are able to wear chain.

2. No dirge is gonna get the raw output numbers that an assassin gets, but we've got plenty of situational ability to go around. Both classes have plenty to do in combat.

3. All scouts get the ability to escape (evac) from a bad situation. Both classes get the ability to snare opponents. Both classes can run fast, but dirges run faster by far, and have non-breaking versions of snare. Assassins can also snare via poison proc.

4. Yes, dirges are much faster than any other class (troubadors excepted) as a permanent ability. There are other classes that get burst speed, or situational speed. Everyone's stealth works the same in terms of what you can hide FROM. Assassins can see other stealthy creatures with their stealth, dirges get to move faster while stealthy.

5. Know what you want to do going in. That's going to be the best barometer of your level of disappointment. If raw personal output is your goal, go assassin. If you don't mind having a little less personal output, but want overall group effectiveness to increase, a dirge is a better choice. *Both* serve the goal of increasing output for a group, moving HOs, scouting, etc.

Ohnir · 02-15-2006, 01:24 AM

Great answer, thank you!

Supa Mint Flava · 02-15-2006, 03:21 AM

I play a 60 dirge and a 60 necro, and must say I really enjoy both for different reasons. A necro is not an assassin, but both do really really nice dps.

The necro is fun cause I blast the heck out of mobs, and can rez and heal people. The dirge is fun cause I get some really nice buffs, "ok" dps, and make mobs more manageable for both groups and raids. As a dirge, you tend to get less recognition for your contributions than if you're an assassin. You might hear more groups say "Ooh, we need an assassin" rather than "need a dirge". That's just a guess tho. Healers and tanks certainly appreciate a dirge. I play a 53 warden as well, and have a 40 defiler, and my job is always easier when I have a dirge.

If a high end raiding guild had to choose between a dirge and an assassin, they'd take the dirge. For grouping, it's hard to say...would think maybe assassin would get more groups, but the people who really know their stuff would probably take dirge as long as there was another dps available.

Message Edited by Supa Mint Flava on 02-14-200602:22 PM

Ohnir · 02-15-2006, 05:52 AM

I have a follow-up/clarification question. I was under the impression that the Assassin had a way to leave combat by stealthing away while in combat. I assume this would be an escape skill somewhat comparable to the brawler's "feign death" with a limited chance of success depending on the difficulty of the mob, but I admit that I don't know how it works. Is the same true for a Dirge? I was under the impression that only Assassins had it, but I could be wrong. If the Dirge has it, how does it work. does it allow it to get out of combat completely? I am asking to know whether it can be used to prevent a wipe. Thank you.

Skurry · 02-15-2006, 08:41 PM

Do you probably mean evac? Ends combat, teleports all group members standing near you to a safe spot, which is fixed per zone.

Every scout gets that at level 25, so yes, both assassins and dirges have it. Wizard and wardens get it, too, but a lot later.

Priestbane · 02-16-2006, 08:52 PM

Dirges cannot leave combat with stealth. As far as I am aware, neither can assassins, but I might be wrong; I don't have a 60 assassin. Stealth (and invisibility in general) cannot be used to erase hate. There are stealth-tied abilities (rogues in particular get this) that do detaunt-then-stealth moves, but these are more like evasion/hate control rather than a method to get away.

Skurry · 02-16-2006, 09:17 PM

Ohnir wrote:
I would like some feedback from those who played both a Dirge and an Assassin, or are well familiar with both from group experience. I would like to draw from your experience before I invest many hours in my character and regret my choice. First, some basic background: I am a “casual” player, roleplayer, who prefers groups and will probably only reach mid-level content (30s). I usually do not have much money since I am generous both as a group member and as a merchant. I prefer to do quests and dungeons, and not experience farming. I have tested both classes to level 10.
Here are some questions:
Is Assassin a lot more expensive to maintain than a Dirge? I understand that an Assassin relies on his poisons for adequate DPS, and I hear that those can get very expensive at the higher levels. Dirge does not have that problem [edited following one of the answers, thank you!]. Any significant differences?
Besides the utility of buffs, does a Dirge actually feel useful in the middle of a fight while grouping? Do you get to have a lot of action as a Dirge, or is that limited to Assassins with their stealth strikes and various positioning work? Is a Dirge's DPS always too little to be noticed?
How capable are both classes to get out of trouble. Assassins have their stealth out of combat abilities and hate transfers, do Dirges have equally effective means of escape?
Is a Dirge run speed much faster than an Assassin, and will it allow you to explore more with less downtime (mounts excluded). Is the stealth ability at the same level equally powerful if you want to sneak by?
Anything else that I might have overlooked that makes one regret their decision of one versus the other when it comes to being able to enjoy the game and see as much as possible while having limited time/resources and wanting to spend much time in groups.
Thank you for your time!
Message Edited by Ohnir on 02-14-200612:26 PM

1. Yes. As a dirge you can probably reach level 60 without spending a single copper. As an assassin, you could, too, but you would [Removed for Content] yourself a lot. If you don't insist on buying legendary poison, the cost is barely noticable, IMHO.

2. You get basically the same action, but only with half the results (i.e. damage).

3. Both have evac, detaunts and stealth. Assassin gets more stealth option AFAIK (which are faster to "cast&quot SMILEY .

4. Dirges get +34% runspeed. As an assassin, you'd need to buy a horse, which costs money and status points.

5. My suggestion is: Play both to level 20. Then see if you want to be nothing but a damage dealer, or if you want to be a jack of all trades with lots of utility. Both ways have their perks.

Ohnir · 02-16-2006, 11:03 PM

Thank you to everyone that answered, you helped me a lot. Apparently I had a few misunderstandings. And as you probably guessed, I will be a Dirge -- it's a good fit and you have erased my last doubts :smileyhappy:

juz · 02-17-2006, 01:23 AM

Poisons are great but if you dont have them you still do more damage with an assasin than a dirge.

Assasing get some combat arts that throw them into invis but you cant escape with it.

Asdran · 02-17-2006, 07:18 AM

The only class that I'm aware of that can 'stealth away from combat' is the enchanter.

Long duration Mezz
Break combat
Invis
Saunter hurridly away past the other mobs, hoping to be out of range when the mezz breaks :smileyhappy:

Ohnir · 02-17-2006, 08:07 AM

That has been my experience as well, with my coercer...Oh well, I guess that I was wrong about Assassins being able to sneak away from trouble, once again thank you for all the help :smileyhappy:

02-15-2006, 01:04 AM	#1
Ohnir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	I would like some feedback from those who played both a Dirge and an Assassin, or are well familiar with both from group experience. I would like to draw from your experience before I invest many hours in my character and regret my choice. First, some basic background: I am a “casual” player, roleplayer, who prefers groups and will probably only reach mid-level content (30s). I usually do not have much money since I am generous both as a group member and as a merchant. I prefer to do quests and dungeons, and not experience farming. I have tested both classes to level 10. Here are some questions: Is Assassin a lot more expensive to maintain than a Dirge? I understand that an Assassin relies on his poisons for adequate DPS, and I hear that those can get very expensive at the higher levels. Dirge does not have that problem [edited following one of the answers, thank you!]. Any significant differences? Besides the utility of buffs, does a Dirge actually feel useful in the middle of a fight while grouping? Do you get to have a lot of action as a Dirge, or is that limited to Assassins with their stealth strikes and various positioning work? Is a Dirge's DPS always too little to be noticed? How capable are both classes to get out of trouble. Assassins have their stealth out of combat abilities and hate transfers, do Dirges have equally effective means of escape? Is a Dirge run speed much faster than an Assassin, and will it allow you to explore more with less downtime (mounts excluded). Is the stealth ability at the same level equally powerful if you want to sneak by? Anything else that I might have overlooked that makes one regret their decision of one versus the other when it comes to being able to enjoy the game and see as much as possible while having limited time/resources and wanting to spend much time in groups. Thank you for your time! Message Edited by Ohnir on 02-14-200612:26 PM

02-15-2006, 01:15 AM	#2
Priestbane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,527	1. Poison is expensive. Not prohibitively so. Both classes are able to wear chain. 2. No dirge is gonna get the raw output numbers that an assassin gets, but we've got plenty of situational ability to go around. Both classes have plenty to do in combat. 3. All scouts get the ability to escape (evac) from a bad situation. Both classes get the ability to snare opponents. Both classes can run fast, but dirges run faster by far, and have non-breaking versions of snare. Assassins can also snare via poison proc. 4. Yes, dirges are much faster than any other class (troubadors excepted) as a permanent ability. There are other classes that get burst speed, or situational speed. Everyone's stealth works the same in terms of what you can hide FROM. Assassins can see other stealthy creatures with their stealth, dirges get to move faster while stealthy. 5. Know what you want to do going in. That's going to be the best barometer of your level of disappointment. If raw personal output is your goal, go assassin. If you don't mind having a little less personal output, but want overall group effectiveness to increase, a dirge is a better choice. Both serve the goal of increasing output for a group, moving HOs, scouting, etc. __________________

02-15-2006, 03:21 AM	#4
Supa Mint Flava Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Neriak - Qeynos Posts: 220	I play a 60 dirge and a 60 necro, and must say I really enjoy both for different reasons. A necro is not an assassin, but both do really really nice dps. The necro is fun cause I blast the heck out of mobs, and can rez and heal people. The dirge is fun cause I get some really nice buffs, "ok" dps, and make mobs more manageable for both groups and raids. As a dirge, you tend to get less recognition for your contributions than if you're an assassin. You might hear more groups say "Ooh, we need an assassin" rather than "need a dirge". That's just a guess tho. Healers and tanks certainly appreciate a dirge. I play a 53 warden as well, and have a 40 defiler, and my job is always easier when I have a dirge. If a high end raiding guild had to choose between a dirge and an assassin, they'd take the dirge. For grouping, it's hard to say...would think maybe assassin would get more groups, but the people who really know their stuff would probably take dirge as long as there was another dps available. Message Edited by Supa Mint Flava on 02-14-200602:22 PM __________________

02-15-2006, 08:41 PM	#6
Skurry Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 296	Do you probably mean evac? Ends combat, teleports all group members standing near you to a safe spot, which is fixed per zone. Every scout gets that at level 25, so yes, both assassins and dirges have it. Wizard and wardens get it, too, but a lot later. __________________ www.streiflicht.net/parsefal Logfileanalyse fÃ¼r Everquest 2 (deutsch)

02-16-2006, 08:52 PM	#7
Priestbane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,527	Dirges cannot leave combat with stealth. As far as I am aware, neither can assassins, but I might be wrong; I don't have a 60 assassin. Stealth (and invisibility in general) cannot be used to erase hate. There are stealth-tied abilities (rogues in particular get this) that do detaunt-then-stealth moves, but these are more like evasion/hate control rather than a method to get away. __________________

02-15-2006, 01:24 AM	#3
Ohnir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Great answer, thank you!

02-15-2006, 05:52 AM	#5
Ohnir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	I have a follow-up/clarification question. I was under the impression that the Assassin had a way to leave combat by stealthing away while in combat. I assume this would be an escape skill somewhat comparable to the brawler's "feign death" with a limited chance of success depending on the difficulty of the mob, but I admit that I don't know how it works. Is the same true for a Dirge? I was under the impression that only Assassins had it, but I could be wrong. If the Dirge has it, how does it work. does it allow it to get out of combat completely? I am asking to know whether it can be used to prevent a wipe. Thank you.

02-16-2006, 09:17 PM	#8
Skurry Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 296	Ohnir wrote: I would like some feedback from those who played both a Dirge and an Assassin, or are well familiar with both from group experience. I would like to draw from your experience before I invest many hours in my character and regret my choice. First, some basic background: I am a “casual” player, roleplayer, who prefers groups and will probably only reach mid-level content (30s). I usually do not have much money since I am generous both as a group member and as a merchant. I prefer to do quests and dungeons, and not experience farming. I have tested both classes to level 10. Here are some questions: Is Assassin a lot more expensive to maintain than a Dirge? I understand that an Assassin relies on his poisons for adequate DPS, and I hear that those can get very expensive at the higher levels. Dirge does not have that problem [edited following one of the answers, thank you!]. Any significant differences? Besides the utility of buffs, does a Dirge actually feel useful in the middle of a fight while grouping? Do you get to have a lot of action as a Dirge, or is that limited to Assassins with their stealth strikes and various positioning work? Is a Dirge's DPS always too little to be noticed? How capable are both classes to get out of trouble. Assassins have their stealth out of combat abilities and hate transfers, do Dirges have equally effective means of escape? Is a Dirge run speed much faster than an Assassin, and will it allow you to explore more with less downtime (mounts excluded). Is the stealth ability at the same level equally powerful if you want to sneak by? Anything else that I might have overlooked that makes one regret their decision of one versus the other when it comes to being able to enjoy the game and see as much as possible while having limited time/resources and wanting to spend much time in groups. Thank you for your time! Message Edited by Ohnir on 02-14-200612:26 PM 1. Yes. As a dirge you can probably reach level 60 without spending a single copper. As an assassin, you could, too, but you would [Removed for Content] yourself a lot. If you don't insist on buying legendary poison, the cost is barely noticable, IMHO. 2. You get basically the same action, but only with half the results (i.e. damage). 3. Both have evac, detaunts and stealth. Assassin gets more stealth option AFAIK (which are faster to "cast&quot. 4. Dirges get +34% runspeed. As an assassin, you'd need to buy a horse, which costs money and status points. 5. My suggestion is: Play both to level 20. Then see if you want to be nothing but a damage dealer, or if you want to be a jack of all trades with lots of utility. Both ways have their perks. __________________ www.streiflicht.net/parsefal Logfileanalyse fÃ¼r Everquest 2 (deutsch)

02-16-2006, 11:03 PM	#9
Ohnir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Thank you to everyone that answered, you helped me a lot. Apparently I had a few misunderstandings. And as you probably guessed, I will be a Dirge -- it's a good fit and you have erased my last doubts :smileyhappy:

02-17-2006, 01:23 AM	#10
juz General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 318	Poisons are great but if you dont have them you still do more damage with an assasin than a dirge. Assasing get some combat arts that throw them into invis but you cant escape with it. __________________

02-17-2006, 07:18 AM	#11
Asdran Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 47	The only class that I'm aware of that can 'stealth away from combat' is the enchanter. Long duration Mezz Break combat Invis Saunter hurridly away past the other mobs, hoping to be out of range when the mezz breaks :smileyhappy:

02-17-2006, 08:07 AM	#12
Ohnir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	That has been my experience as well, with my coercer...Oh well, I guess that I was wrong about Assassins being able to sneak away from trouble, once again thank you for all the help :smileyhappy: