Are Brigands getting nerfed?

Assasi · 09-14-2006, 05:32 AM

Like the title says I was reading few threads in here some people say there getting debuffed.... Thats what happen in WoW the Rogues got debuff every single patch so stared to hate it I quit the game mostly aim at MMO's for PVP's and dual wield DPS, scout classes in EQ II are fun.... I really enjoy PVP system in EQ II now. I have an Assassin but have hard time in PVP I also like the style of Brigand dps little defensive wanted to role on a Brigand but I hear there getting nerfed is this true?

Jida · 09-14-2006, 06:20 AM

Offically ... No cluemy feelings? More than likely.. we've gotten some really good buffs the last couple expansions and i believe we are pretty overpowered as far as PVP goes... and we are just about right on the mark as where pve goes....nothing like making a plate tank feel nekkid... SMILEY

The-Fourm-Pirate · 09-14-2006, 06:40 AM

Brigands suck go play assassin

Antryg Mistrose · 09-14-2006, 09:44 AM

It wouldn't surprise me:

Best non-tank tanks
Best debuffs
Highest DPS of any class
No need to worry about AoE's

Odds are SoE will do something to put predators and sorcerers above them in dps at least.

Keldo · 09-14-2006, 09:47 AM

highest dps of any class haha, thats a good one

Wardyn · 09-14-2006, 01:38 PM

Well, I enjoy my Brig a ton, so naturally a nerf is likely pending. Still, for someone to come on and make an idiotic statement like "highest dps of any class," I pretty much equate to a troll. That said, go ahead SOE, nerf away. I now say this with all seriousness, and this is not meant to be any kind of lame threat, nerf away SOE! Vanguard is right around the corner.

Nerf away!

DaLurk · 09-14-2006, 04:25 PM

Highest DPS of any class

Mwahahahahaha.Do not feed the troll SMILEY

Antryg Mistrose · 09-14-2006, 05:43 PM

I didn't think there was any dispute. Brigands (when not pulling aggro and dying) frequently top raid parses Calling me a troll hardly changes that. So my own parses, and these posts are all fake?

Jeffmaster · 09-14-2006, 05:51 PM

when assassins wizards and necros are part of the raid..even swash...they are often above in the parses

ag · 09-14-2006, 06:39 PM

We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 2k DPS one fight per week.We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 1500+ DPS many fights per week.The devs have access to the server side logs and can see exactly what is "normal" and what is "extraordinary".Brag all you want, cry nerf all you want. Hand wringing and Chicken Little'ing isn't going to change anything.I don't personally see any need for a PvE nerf. We've worked 90% fine since LU13. PvP is a different story, and I'm ignorant of that topic.And to prove my point...---(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1183 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1171 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 911 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 909 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 956 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 889 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1026 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1215 points of piercing damage.---8260 DPS OMGZ0RS! N3RF!!!

TwistedFaith · 09-14-2006, 06:52 PM

The problem is the difference DPS wise between a class like a ranger with zero utlity and a class like a brigand with incredible debuffs, and a even more powerful and vital AA skill is minimal at best.There should be a substancial difference between a Brigands DPS and that of a rangers imho. The balance between a well played Assasins DPS and a well played Brigands DPS is pretty much right in my eyes, just that rangers have got the shaft due to pvp.

mikemcmodmi · 09-14-2006, 07:33 PM

In zonewide parses assassins, rangers, swashbucklers, wizards, necros and conjs all outdps us. In top guilds necros average 2k dps for the zone in a low mitigation zone like lycaeum. From what I've seen in a zone like lycaeum:

Necro 2k dps
Conj 1950 dps
Assassin 1900 dps
Swash 1500 dps
Rangers 1450 dps
Wizards 1400 dps
Brigands 1300 dps

I'd hardly call us the overpowered class of this expansion. What is good is our debuffs, but we give up a lot of dps to get those debuffs so it's balanced in the end. If they really want to fix this game what they need to do is boost the dps of some of the broken classes due to pvp. Give rangers and sks more dps. If SKs did more damage maybe they could hold aggro. Warlocks can still use some loving too.

I remember sitting on the SS docks before the expansion pvping. All the classes that were strong pvp classes (sks and rangers) are now less powerful then anyone else and I think it's no surprise they're now subpar in pve. I have no idea why warlocks are weaker though.

Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 09-14-2006 08:36 AM

Crimson Dragon · 09-14-2006, 07:36 PM

DaLurker wrote:
Highest DPS of any class
Mwahahahahaha.Do not feed the troll

sorry, no bridge here, i'm not paying him a thing. :smileyvery-happy:

Eluzay · 09-14-2006, 07:38 PM

agra wrote:We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 2k DPS one fight per week.We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 1500+ DPS many fights per week.The devs have access to the server side logs and can see exactly what is "normal" and what is "extraordinary".Brag all you want, cry nerf all you want. Hand wringing and Chicken Little'ing isn't going to change anything.I don't personally see any need for a PvE nerf. We've worked 90% fine since LU13. PvP is a different story, and I'm ignorant of that topic.And to prove my point...---(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1183 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1171 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 911 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 909 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 956 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 889 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1026 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1215 points of piercing damage.---8260 DPS OMGZ0RS! N3RF!!!

I dont think that brigs per say will be nerfed but I see debuff and resists getting nerfed in the near future with avoidance being close on their heels, so indirectly I see bad things happening to brigs, though it will affect more than one class.

Vollux · 09-14-2006, 07:48 PM

On the plus side

big Nerf = easymode brigands dissappear = more masters on the market.

Niun01 · 09-14-2006, 07:59 PM

Every "Flavor of the Month" class gets the nerf... Not sure why, but thats usually how it happens.

Velr · 09-14-2006, 09:00 PM

I honestly am expecting the PVP effect of Dispatch to be cut in half. And...I think it's fair. However, if they go any further then that they may as well let me change my relic armor to Swashbuckler armor as without debuffs my class is da uber [Removed for Content] in PVP.

Rokjin · 09-14-2006, 09:42 PM

mikemcmodmike wrote:

I remember sitting on the SS docks before the expansion pvping. All the classes that were strong pvp classes (sks and rangers) are now less powerful then anyone else and I think it's no surprise they're now subpar in pve. I have no idea why warlocks are weaker though.

Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 09-14-2006 08:36 AM

There wasn't any PvP before the KoS Expansion. There was dueling and arena fights, neither of which uses the same ruleset as PvP.

Damage adjustments and control ability workings changes make PvP servers very different from duelling/arena.

Even so, my 60 Brigand could take out any class in a 1 on 1 duel pre-expansion. The DPS/Knockdown Proc buff along with Dispatch and Double Up with all the stuns sealed the deal.

Honestly the root/direction lock on Restrain didn't weaken it in PvP at all due to the way stun immunity timers work.

End result really is that Dispatch is just too powerful versus players. Increasing the damage you do against a person by 50%, combined with the burst capabilities of Double Up is a near insta-kill combination every minute.

Deeds · 09-15-2006, 07:32 PM

Antryg Mistrose wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me:

Best non-tank tanks. You might want to check the Swashbucklers braging that they tank HoF, new Nek Castle etc. Also, if you AA spec to tank, you will lose dps, its a trade of.

Best debuffs. Maybe, swashbucklers have very good debuffs too.

Highest DPS of any class. Lol, wrong, wrong, wrong. A lot off classes do better dps, especially on AOE encounters.

No need to worry about AoE's. This one is true, but it comes with a agro price. To go full out debuff and dps mode, the MT better have some very good agro enhancers or we need a good agro reducer or two.
Odds are SoE will do something to put predators and sorcerers above them in dps at least.

Message Edited by Deedbit on 09-15-2006 08:33 AM

Crimson Dragon · 09-15-2006, 07:40 PM

we do have the best mitigation debuffs in the game.as i've mentioned elsewhere, dps capability is highly dependent on group-build.the only way to properly judge damage output between classes is to do solo / non-buffed parses.i think if you parsed classes individually, you'd find that brigands are right where they're supposed to be.

SennSei · 09-16-2006, 01:47 AM

While I'd be a bit disapointed to see a nerf since I've finally found a class I really enjoy in this case, it doesn't really matter. Once Vanguard is released, I'm leaving this game for at least a good while. I suspect many people will also.Overall this is a great MMORPG to play while waiting for Vanguard and/or Middle Earth online to be released.

The-Fourm-Pirate · 09-16-2006, 03:43 AM

Antryg Mistrose wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me:

Best non-tank tanks
Not true, Swashbucklers are better because most of Brigand's DPS is backstabbing, unless you're talking about heroic content in which case it dosn't matter because brawlers can solo yellow and white con ^^^ so don't nerf call us.

Best debuffs

True enough

Highest DPS of any class

Not true by a longshot, Assassins kick the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of us in DPS most of the time unless you have a kickass brigand or a crappy assassin.

No need to worry about AoE's

Class defining skill due to the fact we have no ranged attacks and about 35% of our DPS is backstabs which we need to position for
Odds are SoE will do something to put predators and sorcerers above them in dps at least.

Wardyn · 09-17-2006, 08:04 AM

Well the problem I see with nerfing Brigands is that is that if SOE lessens the debuffs, then all brigands will be are just swashies that do slightly less damage. I simply don't see the point. I betrayed to a Swashy for a few levels in the 50's. I was impressed. They do slightly better damage, and are better soloers. (No I'm not saying our damage is terrible, or that we cannot solo.) Still, they are very popular compared to brigs. (As are most "good" classes)

Brigands simply don't unbalance anything from a PVE standpoint. If this is purely a PVP issue, than keep it a PVP issue.

Carna · 09-17-2006, 11:02 AM

Niun01 wrote:
Every "Flavor of the Month" class gets the nerf... Not sure why, but thats usually how it happens.

Because you're not supposed to excel at anything. You're not supposed to stand out as being special at something. People aren't supposed to say "class X rocks!". The only way in which you're allowed to be different is for people to mutter "they nerfed X too hard" as you walk past.

Oh, and you're supposed to be wearing beige.

Riversideblues · 09-17-2006, 07:37 PM

if they take anything away it wont be our dps, which is generally inline. our debuffs may be slightly scaled down to match swashes but the reason their debuffs suck is because of the way the combat system works with crush/slash/pierce mods. so that leaves Amazing reflexes....and you know, they can take it. i'd be fine with them turning it into a 30s every 5min temp buff or even completely change it.it's overpowered, trivializes us and i find it just makes the class really really lazy.so take it away soe!

DarkMirrax · 09-18-2006, 11:45 AM

Riversideblues wrote:
if they take anything away it wont be our dps, which is generally inline. our debuffs may be slightly scaled down to match swashes but the reason their debuffs suck is because of the way the combat system works with crush/slash/pierce mods.

so that leaves Amazing reflexes....

and you know, they can take it. i'd be fine with them turning it into a 30s every 5min temp buff or even completely change it.

it's overpowered, trivializes us and i find it just makes the class really really lazy.

so take it away soe!

That would be my guess Our dps is fine , our debuffs are great but hardly overpowered

Any changes to Brigs will totally be done to AR without doubt its uber ! no other class gets anything like it other than a 30 sec duration buff. look at the facts

Both swashie/brigand are the debuffers

Both do comparable DPS

major difference ..

Swashies cant be in AE to debuff where as we can ..... BUT they get en guarde and hurricane as a plus.

so more than likly expect a nurf here ... I really hope not though

Gyilok · 09-18-2006, 03:25 PM

someone shoot tangarth

Shidonya · 09-18-2006, 06:53 PM

Until they give me a "Only brigands can do this on epic mobs" ability like Coercers/Illusionists I'll refuse to accept that I'm overpowered in anyway.

AR has been nerfed and nerfed again. I really don't care about it much now since I tank with my briggy although I do still use it for its hate gen. however it isn't the end all and with the right classes in your group all group members can have it. I just think nerfing anything we have is bs, we aren't overpowered if tank goes down in a raid we're usually number 2 to go down and AR isn't saving us from that.

DPS is overrated, for some reason people think DPS is ruler in this game and it's not, I have given up DPS with my tanking ability and I haven't missed a beat with what I can do. Lets face it all AR does is allow us consistant DPS meaning it's not noteworthy of a nerf.

As for PvP screw PvP if I wanted to play a PvP type game I'd go play Unreal or something stupid like that. If someone is an insta-kill to a briggy in PvP they deserved it for playing that crap! Hello you're a squishy do you think you should live through a backstab in a robe?

FuzzBall · 09-18-2006, 07:03 PM

nerf nerf nerf, its all the devs know how to do. how long before no one can do anything because so many have b*tched about all the rest of the classes, so much, that they cant nerf any more?

TwistedFaith · 09-18-2006, 09:09 PM

FuzzBall wrote:nerf nerf nerf, its all the devs know how to do. how long before no one can do anything because so many have b*tched about all the rest of the classes, so much, that they cant nerf any more?

Problem there is that SoE refuse to fix blatantly broken classes so the natural reaction of players playing those classes is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is going on here, why can class x do this that and the other when my class is useless.Tell me again why anyone would ever take a ranger over a brigand on a raid? If a class 'ONLY' does dps, then they best be the head and shoulders above classes in terms of dps who offer far more to groups/raids.

09-14-2006, 06:20 AM	#2
Jida Fansite Staff Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 849	Offically ... No cluemy feelings? More than likely.. we've gotten some really good buffs the last couple expansions and i believe we are pretty overpowered as far as PVP goes... and we are just about right on the mark as where pve goes....nothing like making a plate tank feel nekkid... __________________

09-14-2006, 06:40 AM	#3
The-Fourm-Pirate Lord Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 482	Brigands suck go play assassin __________________ Desann: 70 Brigand Bossk: 70 Inquisitor

09-14-2006, 09:44 AM	#4
Antryg Mistrose Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 893	It wouldn't surprise me: Best non-tank tanks Best debuffs Highest DPS of any class No need to worry about AoE's Odds are SoE will do something to put predators and sorcerers above them in dps at least. __________________ Illusionist//Paladin/Dirge/Templar Jeweler/Sage/Alchemist/Prov

09-14-2006, 09:47 AM	#5
Keldo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 528	highest dps of any class haha, thats a good one __________________ Katsuki [70 Swashbuckler] Katsu2 [70 Brigand] Blackburrow.Bane

09-14-2006, 04:25 PM	#7
DaLurk General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: IYA Posts: 336	Highest DPS of any class Mwahahahahaha.Do not feed the troll __________________ -- Leks V`Ghera - Mistmoore

09-14-2006, 05:32 AM	#1
Assasi Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: California, United States Posts: 13	Like the title says I was reading few threads in here some people say there getting debuffed.... Thats what happen in WoW the Rogues got debuff every single patch so stared to hate it I quit the game mostly aim at MMO's for PVP's and dual wield DPS, scout classes in EQ II are fun.... I really enjoy PVP system in EQ II now. I have an Assassin but have hard time in PVP I also like the style of Brigand dps little defensive wanted to role on a Brigand but I hear there getting nerfed is this true?

09-14-2006, 01:38 PM	#6
Wardyn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 99	Well, I enjoy my Brig a ton, so naturally a nerf is likely pending. Still, for someone to come on and make an idiotic statement like "highest dps of any class," I pretty much equate to a troll. That said, go ahead SOE, nerf away. I now say this with all seriousness, and this is not meant to be any kind of lame threat, nerf away SOE! Vanguard is right around the corner. Nerf away!

09-14-2006, 05:43 PM	#8
Antryg Mistrose Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 893	I didn't think there was any dispute. Brigands (when not pulling aggro and dying) frequently top raid parses Calling me a troll hardly changes that. So my own parses, and these posts are all fake? __________________ Illusionist//Paladin/Dirge/Templar Jeweler/Sage/Alchemist/Prov

09-14-2006, 05:51 PM	#9
Jeffmaster Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fellowship of Heavenly Fire Posts: 414	when assassins wizards and necros are part of the raid..even swash...they are often above in the parses

09-14-2006, 06:39 PM	#10
ag General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 851	We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 2k DPS one fight per week.We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 1500+ DPS many fights per week.The devs have access to the server side logs and can see exactly what is "normal" and what is "extraordinary".Brag all you want, cry nerf all you want. Hand wringing and Chicken Little'ing isn't going to change anything.I don't personally see any need for a PvE nerf. We've worked 90% fine since LU13. PvP is a different story, and I'm ignorant of that topic.And to prove my point...---(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1183 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1171 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 911 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 909 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 956 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 889 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1026 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1215 points of piercing damage.---8260 DPS OMGZ0RS! N3RF!!! __________________ 70 Brigand, 70 Coercer, 60 Bruiser, 50 Inquisitor 70 Alchemist, 70 Armorer, 70 Carpenter, 70 Provisioner, 40 Jeweler, 350 Tinkerer

09-14-2006, 06:52 PM	#11
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	The problem is the difference DPS wise between a class like a ranger with zero utlity and a class like a brigand with incredible debuffs, and a even more powerful and vital AA skill is minimal at best.There should be a substancial difference between a Brigands DPS and that of a rangers imho. The balance between a well played Assasins DPS and a well played Brigands DPS is pretty much right in my eyes, just that rangers have got the shaft due to pvp.

09-14-2006, 07:33 PM	#12
mikemcmodmi Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 837	In zonewide parses assassins, rangers, swashbucklers, wizards, necros and conjs all outdps us. In top guilds necros average 2k dps for the zone in a low mitigation zone like lycaeum. From what I've seen in a zone like lycaeum: Necro 2k dps Conj 1950 dps Assassin 1900 dps Swash 1500 dps Rangers 1450 dps Wizards 1400 dps Brigands 1300 dps I'd hardly call us the overpowered class of this expansion. What is good is our debuffs, but we give up a lot of dps to get those debuffs so it's balanced in the end. If they really want to fix this game what they need to do is boost the dps of some of the broken classes due to pvp. Give rangers and sks more dps. If SKs did more damage maybe they could hold aggro. Warlocks can still use some loving too. I remember sitting on the SS docks before the expansion pvping. All the classes that were strong pvp classes (sks and rangers) are now less powerful then anyone else and I think it's no surprise they're now subpar in pve. I have no idea why warlocks are weaker though. Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 09-14-2006 08:36 AM

09-14-2006, 07:36 PM	#13
Crimson Dragon Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 913	DaLurker wrote: Highest DPS of any class Mwahahahahaha.Do not feed the troll sorry, no bridge here, i'm not paying him a thing. :smileyvery-happy: __________________ The best way to predict the future is to create it.

09-14-2006, 07:38 PM	#14
Eluzay Lord Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 432	agra wrote:We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 2k DPS one fight per week.We won't get nerfed because less than 5 Brigands per server can do 1500+ DPS many fights per week.The devs have access to the server side logs and can see exactly what is "normal" and what is "extraordinary".Brag all you want, cry nerf all you want. Hand wringing and Chicken Little'ing isn't going to change anything.I don't personally see any need for a PvE nerf. We've worked 90% fine since LU13. PvP is a different story, and I'm ignorant of that topic.And to prove my point...---(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1183 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1171 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 911 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 909 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 956 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 889 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1026 points of piercing damage.(1158115866)[Tue Sep 12 20:51:06 2006] YOUR Underground Negotiation critically hits liquid fire for 1215 points of piercing damage.---8260 DPS OMGZ0RS! N3RF!!! I dont think that brigs per say will be nerfed but I see debuff and resists getting nerfed in the near future with avoidance being close on their heels, so indirectly I see bad things happening to brigs, though it will affect more than one class.

09-14-2006, 07:48 PM	#15
Vollux Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	On the plus side big Nerf = easymode brigands dissappear = more masters on the market.

09-14-2006, 07:59 PM	#16
Niun01 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 113	Every "Flavor of the Month" class gets the nerf... Not sure why, but thats usually how it happens. __________________

09-14-2006, 09:00 PM	#17
Velr Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 26	I honestly am expecting the PVP effect of Dispatch to be cut in half. And...I think it's fair. However, if they go any further then that they may as well let me change my relic armor to Swashbuckler armor as without debuffs my class is da uber [Removed for Content] in PVP.

09-14-2006, 09:42 PM	#18
Rokjin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 511	mikemcmodmike wrote: I remember sitting on the SS docks before the expansion pvping. All the classes that were strong pvp classes (sks and rangers) are now less powerful then anyone else and I think it's no surprise they're now subpar in pve. I have no idea why warlocks are weaker though. Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 09-14-2006 08:36 AM There wasn't any PvP before the KoS Expansion. There was dueling and arena fights, neither of which uses the same ruleset as PvP. Damage adjustments and control ability workings changes make PvP servers very different from duelling/arena. Even so, my 60 Brigand could take out any class in a 1 on 1 duel pre-expansion. The DPS/Knockdown Proc buff along with Dispatch and Double Up with all the stuns sealed the deal. Honestly the root/direction lock on Restrain didn't weaken it in PvP at all due to the way stun immunity timers work. End result really is that Dispatch is just too powerful versus players. Increasing the damage you do against a person by 50%, combined with the burst capabilities of Double Up is a near insta-kill combination every minute. __________________ Braznak, Swashy of Venekor, Darkshine Initiative Leanan Sidhe, Retired, Venekor Rokkah Shineteeths, Retired, Antonia Bayle

09-15-2006, 07:32 PM	#19
Deeds Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 116	Antryg Mistrose wrote: It wouldn't surprise me: Best non-tank tanks. You might want to check the Swashbucklers braging that they tank HoF, new Nek Castle etc. Also, if you AA spec to tank, you will lose dps, its a trade of. Best debuffs. Maybe, swashbucklers have very good debuffs too. Highest DPS of any class. Lol, wrong, wrong, wrong. A lot off classes do better dps, especially on AOE encounters. No need to worry about AoE's. This one is true, but it comes with a agro price. To go full out debuff and dps mode, the MT better have some very good agro enhancers or we need a good agro reducer or two. Odds are SoE will do something to put predators and sorcerers above them in dps at least. Message Edited by Deedbit on 09-15-2006 08:33 AM

09-15-2006, 07:40 PM	#20
Crimson Dragon Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 913	we do have the best mitigation debuffs in the game.as i've mentioned elsewhere, dps capability is highly dependent on group-build.the only way to properly judge damage output between classes is to do solo / non-buffed parses.i think if you parsed classes individually, you'd find that brigands are right where they're supposed to be. __________________ The best way to predict the future is to create it.

09-16-2006, 01:47 AM	#21
SennSei Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30	While I'd be a bit disapointed to see a nerf since I've finally found a class I really enjoy in this case, it doesn't really matter. Once Vanguard is released, I'm leaving this game for at least a good while. I suspect many people will also.Overall this is a great MMORPG to play while waiting for Vanguard and/or Middle Earth online to be released.

09-16-2006, 03:43 AM	#22
The-Fourm-Pirate Lord Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 482	Antryg Mistrose wrote: It wouldn't surprise me: Best non-tank tanks Not true, Swashbucklers are better because most of Brigand's DPS is backstabbing, unless you're talking about heroic content in which case it dosn't matter because brawlers can solo yellow and white con ^^^ so don't nerf call us. Best debuffs True enough Highest DPS of any class Not true by a longshot, Assassins kick the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of us in DPS most of the time unless you have a kickass brigand or a crappy assassin. No need to worry about AoE's Class defining skill due to the fact we have no ranged attacks and about 35% of our DPS is backstabs which we need to position for Odds are SoE will do something to put predators and sorcerers above them in dps at least. __________________ Desann: 70 Brigand Bossk: 70 Inquisitor

09-17-2006, 08:04 AM	#23
Wardyn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 99	Well the problem I see with nerfing Brigands is that is that if SOE lessens the debuffs, then all brigands will be are just swashies that do slightly less damage. I simply don't see the point. I betrayed to a Swashy for a few levels in the 50's. I was impressed. They do slightly better damage, and are better soloers. (No I'm not saying our damage is terrible, or that we cannot solo.) Still, they are very popular compared to brigs. (As are most "good" classes) Brigands simply don't unbalance anything from a PVE standpoint. If this is purely a PVP issue, than keep it a PVP issue.

09-17-2006, 11:02 AM	#24
Carna Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 515	Niun01 wrote: Every "Flavor of the Month" class gets the nerf... Not sure why, but thats usually how it happens. Because you're not supposed to excel at anything. You're not supposed to stand out as being special at something. People aren't supposed to say "class X rocks!". The only way in which you're allowed to be different is for people to mutter "they nerfed X too hard" as you walk past. Oh, and you're supposed to be wearing beige.

09-17-2006, 07:37 PM	#25
Riversideblues Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 476	if they take anything away it wont be our dps, which is generally inline. our debuffs may be slightly scaled down to match swashes but the reason their debuffs suck is because of the way the combat system works with crush/slash/pierce mods. so that leaves Amazing reflexes....and you know, they can take it. i'd be fine with them turning it into a 30s every 5min temp buff or even completely change it.it's overpowered, trivializes us and i find it just makes the class really really lazy.so take it away soe! __________________ I would not use my level 80 epic if it was given to me at level 70. Illusionist EPIC??, thanks for being 100% out of touch with the players.

09-18-2006, 11:45 AM	#26
DarkMirrax Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,238	Riversideblues wrote: if they take anything away it wont be our dps, which is generally inline. our debuffs may be slightly scaled down to match swashes but the reason their debuffs suck is because of the way the combat system works with crush/slash/pierce mods. so that leaves Amazing reflexes.... and you know, they can take it. i'd be fine with them turning it into a 30s every 5min temp buff or even completely change it. it's overpowered, trivializes us and i find it just makes the class really really lazy. so take it away soe! That would be my guess Our dps is fine , our debuffs are great but hardly overpowered Any changes to Brigs will totally be done to AR without doubt its uber ! no other class gets anything like it other than a 30 sec duration buff. look at the facts Both swashie/brigand are the debuffers Both do comparable DPS major difference .. Swashies cant be in AE to debuff where as we can ..... BUT they get en guarde and hurricane as a plus. so more than likly expect a nurf here ... I really hope not though __________________ Q - Named and epics get + to hit which makes avoidance tanking suck. A- Yes they do, and yes it does =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II ... Whats Amazing Reflexes ?? ....... ===========================

09-18-2006, 03:25 PM	#27
Gyilok Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 696	someone shoot tangarth __________________ Stizeyo

09-18-2006, 06:53 PM	#28
Shidonya Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 130	Until they give me a "Only brigands can do this on epic mobs" ability like Coercers/Illusionists I'll refuse to accept that I'm overpowered in anyway. AR has been nerfed and nerfed again. I really don't care about it much now since I tank with my briggy although I do still use it for its hate gen. however it isn't the end all and with the right classes in your group all group members can have it. I just think nerfing anything we have is bs, we aren't overpowered if tank goes down in a raid we're usually number 2 to go down and AR isn't saving us from that. DPS is overrated, for some reason people think DPS is ruler in this game and it's not, I have given up DPS with my tanking ability and I haven't missed a beat with what I can do. Lets face it all AR does is allow us consistant DPS meaning it's not noteworthy of a nerf. As for PvP screw PvP if I wanted to play a PvP type game I'd go play Unreal or something stupid like that. If someone is an insta-kill to a briggy in PvP they deserved it for playing that crap! Hello you're a squishy do you think you should live through a backstab in a robe?

09-18-2006, 07:03 PM	#29
FuzzBall Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 127	nerf nerf nerf, its all the devs know how to do. how long before no one can do anything because so many have b*tched about all the rest of the classes, so much, that they cant nerf any more? __________________

09-18-2006, 09:09 PM	#30
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	FuzzBall wrote:nerf nerf nerf, its all the devs know how to do. how long before no one can do anything because so many have b*tched about all the rest of the classes, so much, that they cant nerf any more? Problem there is that SoE refuse to fix blatantly broken classes so the natural reaction of players playing those classes is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is going on here, why can class x do this that and the other when my class is useless.Tell me again why anyone would ever take a ranger over a brigand on a raid? If a class 'ONLY' does dps, then they best be the head and shoulders above classes in terms of dps who offer far more to groups/raids.