My theory on Lucan

[JadeHea]

Greetings and Salutations Lore Seekers!!

 

 I don’t often post on these boards as id rather be in game playing. But I have a theory on Lucan and I believe its time for me to share it and get some feedback. One of the reasons I don’t post is that im not into Getting my [Removed for Content] flamed off so be nice when you post, as like I was saying it’s a theory.

 

I play on the role-playing server and when I decided to play a priest of Freeport I did all the research on Lucan that I could find.  Now I know Lucan well, as I played for four years in eq1, and I have played eq2 since its release. And the more I found the more questions I had.

 

Here is some history of Lucan for you. (( the eq1 Pally epic.))

 

You say, 'Who is Sir Lucan?'

 

 Valeron Dushire says 'Lucan is a bad seed. You see, I trained Sir Lucan. He was nothing more than a street rat who was taken in by the Temple of Marr. The priests taught him and found him to be very agile and strong. They requested either the Priests of Marr or the Knights of Truth take him on as a squire. Gygus could not spare the trainers at the time and so we took the boy. The boy became a man, and a very formidable knight. Then something [went awry].'

 

You say, 'What went awry?'

 

 Valeron Dushire says 'During one of our crusades into the lands of Norrath, we left Sir Lucan in charge of the remaining knights. He did much good and the people respected him. He was overtaken by power. He soon began to hire mercenaries to guard the city, calling them the Freeport Militia. His true downfall began when he killed Sentry Dillius, a paladin of the Priests of Marr. His divine powers were stripped from his soul. He was a paladin no longer. He and his militia now control the city. They treat it as their playground and bully the populace. Someone must [stop Sir Lucan].'

 

You say, 'I will stop Sir Lucan'

 

 Valeron Dushire says 'That would be good, but I doubt you can. We have been trying for years and are unable to get him apart from the militia. If you do the impossible and destroy Sir Lucan, bring me his testimony. Every knight of the Hall of Truth carries a signed testimony. Sir Lucan still holds his.'

 

 At this point you kill Sir Lucan, and he respawns as an undead creature.   

 

 

 

Ok now the questions!

 

1. Freeport was the human city in eq1. After the shattering, it became the home to many of the races. The “human avatar Lucan” became its new ruler. But all the humans got the beggars quarter, which they had to share with the half elfs. Lucan mockingly renamed it Beggars Court. This is a strange way for a human ruler to treat his fello humans. Now this always bugged me because it never made sense. Why did all the humans get relocated to the crummy part of the city when our ruler is human himself? I could see us getting relocated if we had a non-human leader. But we don’t. On a side note… Dark elfs share their part f the city with no one.

 

1. Second thing that bugged me is, Why did the dark elfs move into Freeport. Even Everquest dark elfs are a snotty and haughty bunch. There are many small villages still surviving in the wilds. Why did they not just take over one of those? Even more so, Why did they drop all their own factions and join Freeport ones? Why did they get their own quarter to live in? Why have they integrated into the upper ranks of the societies? To me the answer is simple. They know who Lucan really is. And they are following his lead.

 

1. Another part of the storyline? Fallen gate, it used to be full of just undead. But the overlord had it cleared out. Why is the human ruler of Freeport care about old Neriak? And what is he looking for? (( I have an idea but im not telling.)) Even then we were at war with the Thex, but as soon as we cleared it out the Thexians moved back in. And now we are fighting them… These dark elfs are loyal to the old nobles and the old ways. The ones that refused to follow the rest into Freeport.

 

1. Why does Lucan use the title Overlord? This is more of a Tier’dal title or a non-human title. Not like the human titles of Viscount, Marques ect, and why does the overlord have a Tier'dal "mistress" or "assistant". If you look into his habits he has some interesting non-human ones.

 

1. And here is the big one, How did Lucan who was utterly destroyed in eq1 waltz into Freeport has its ruler? Its not that he was killed, he dies then his bones rise up and they get destroyed.

 

 

Those were the main questions that bothered me. Now lets look at a few more things. Lets look at others that have had the touch of Innoruuk in their lives.

 

Lhranc, the first human shadowknight. He has lost an eye, and wound up as undead due to a curse that comes from Marr. And he was marked by Innoruuk. But it does not say how. (( id love to confirm the face scar. )) Look at the nifty pattern,

 

Overlord Xanit K'Ven was a unifier of the dark elves and favorite of Innoruuk.  He was whisked away to the Plain of Hate  when  King and Queen Thex and the Dark Elf nobles turned on him.  You can find a couple pics of him if you search, Notice the scar on his face?

                       

Here is an interesting bit cut from The Tome of Destiny. This is an official eq2 storyline book. If you wish to read the whole book, here is a copy of it, and the link.

http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=2496&fansite_id=11

"You ignore the honor in their hearts," Mithaniel Marr countered. "They have earned the right to exist, to ascend to greatness."

"Greatness?" Innoruuk cackled gleefully. "Leave them to their own devices and they will devour themselves in jealousy and hatred. The solution is not for us to kill them, but to step aside and let them feed upon each other."

At the council of the gods, Innoruuk was very vocal that all the gods including himself should leave. While the other “evil” gods mostly wanted to destroy us all. I don’t think he meant it. I think he had a plan to be able to stay behind. And this is how I think he did it.

 When Lucan killed Sentry Dillius, a paladin of the Priests of Marr. He fled to the Dismal Rage for a short while. The priests of the Dismal Rage enchanted his body to its very core. Allowing him to have great strength even unto death. This is why his skeleton gets up out of his body and continues to fight during the paladin epic in eq1. Again, Not making this up. All is well documented.

 I believe Lucan was destroyed in eq1. And Innoruuk having complete knowledge of Lucan’s body thanks to the enchantment he placed on it, created a husk of it for himself. Leaving some of himself in this husk behind has he and the rest of the gods left. But from here we are getting into my speculations. As Soney will neither confirm nor deny my beliefs.

 Now many speculate that lucan has his hands full trying to keep the Freeport Militia and the Dismal Rage from trying to destroy each other. But as the Dismal rage is Innoruuk’s cult, and he has the husk of Lucan, the founder of the Militia its easy for him to control these factions. He also has great control over the sea furys and the academy of arcane science just because of all of the dark elfs that have worked up to leader ranks in those factions. So for him to control Freeport isn’t that hard.

According to The Tome of Destiny, many gods broke the pact and left avatars behind to continue the their influence and desires on us. These avatars are not always named, But they are talked and hinted at in the storyline. For example… When the game was first released. We were winning the war with the orcs. Yes the orcs had launched an assault against Freeport from the commen lands but we had routed them and they were regrouping. You could take a low level character and walk through the outer city zones and the most you had to worry about were thugs. But with the last updates, there was a major story shift.

 

 

 The orcs have launched an assault from these zones and they are winning. If you have done the quests you know what im talking about. You are sent out to do these drastic missions like poison the food supply and make their avatar angry by defacing his idols. These are desperate missions, not missions from a side that’s winning. There is not much hope of pushing them back this time without some real dirty fighting. I would not be surprised in the next big update to find the city of Freeport as an occupied city. We are in pretty dire straits. Could it be that that the avatar of Zek found out about Innoruuk’s avatar And wants revenge for voting against him at the council of the gods? 

 

 The end result is this… I think Lucan is either a pawn of Innoruuk or his avatar. The more of the story I open up and find, the more questions I begin to have. But this is my theory, and I thought it was time to share it. But this is by no means all of it. To post all my questions and research ive been collecting since the games release would give everyone a headache if they had to read it.

Signed,

Inquisitor Killashack, High priest of Lucan, Drill Sergeant in the Overlords army.

“By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IrishWonder]

1. Hmmm... good question. No clue why Lucan would house the humans in the slummiest part of the city.

2. After the raid on Neriak, the Rending, and the Shattering, the Dark Elves were cut off. Remember, at that time the only establishment left standing anywhere near Neriak was Freeport. I think they got their own part of the city because Lucan knew that it was within his best interests to win the loyalty of the Dark Elves. They were one of the strongest empires on Norrath.

3. Did the Overlord clear it out? I was under the assumption that the only progress made in the Fallen Gate was being done by the Thexians.

4. I assume he uses Overlord because it sounds fearfully commanding... that fits his whole niche :smileywink:

5. I think we have to overlook the fact that he was killed in EQ1. This is a liberty that was taken by the EQ2 developer team in order to put him into the position he's in now. Lots of MOBs die and then return with no explanation... the one on the top of my mind right now is Venekor (and, in essence, all of the Awakened's generals). This is where we have to establish the line between "killed" and "defeated." An NPC is only "killed" if it is stated so in official lore.

I think it's a pretty solid theory. I wouldn't doubt it at all if Innorruuk did have some play over Lucan's mind and actions. I know someone drew the connection between Xanit and Lucan in these forums in the past... due to the scars on the eye. I believe it was even insinuated that Lucan WAS Xanit. Of course, we know this is false because we know Lucan's background from EQ1... plus the scars are on the opposite eye.

Don't hesitate to post theories like this in the future! I believe you'll find that 95% of this forum is speculation. As long as you explicitly state that it is your opinion and not fact, you shouldn't have to worry about flames... except from the people who think their opinion is always right... but don't mind them :smileyvery-happy:

[Troubor]

Me, I'm holding out for Sarge's theory (what we on the Lucan d'Lere server fondly call old Killashack.    ).  He has me convinced that yes, this very well could be.

One side idea, also a seed planted into my mind by Sgt. Killashack on the night he told this one to me, was if Lucan is an avatar or pawn of Innoruuk, god of Hate..could Anotnia Bayle be more then just what she claims, a long lost heir to the Bayle name?  Could it be she's actually an avatar or...servent, prophet maybe of Erolisi Marr, goddess of love?

Goofy idea..maybe..but IC Troubor has been stopping to eye the castle in Qeynos with more then a passing glance, with a look of wonder now.

 

[vikingthug]

I dont think Lucan is anyones pawn or avatar.  You question why he puts humans in the slumiest part of the city?  Well, all the races that dwell there live in squaler.  But if you go through the city and really start looking around, most of the merchants and such are human and the majority of the city watch is human.  I believe that Lucan is probably as close to being a demi god as you can get.  Sooner or later he is gonna get tired of all those Q-scum running amok and lay some serrious hurting on some folks.  He probably has some ties to the darker Dieties but that remains to be seen.  Ol'Lucan loves his humies, botton line.  The rest of the races are just a means to an end.

[JadeHea]

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IrishWonder wrote:

2. After the raid on Neriak, the Rending, and the Shattering, the Dark Elves were cut off. Remember, at that time the only establishment left standing anywhere near Neriak was Freeport. I think they got their own part of the city because Lucan knew that it was within his best interests to win the loyalty of the Dark Elves. They were one of the strongest empires on Norrath.

---

 

Now this is what I like to call Lucan city propaganda. Or abit of red herring lore. We know this to be false. The centars did not join a city and yet they survived. And there are countless ruins the dark elfs could have taken over. But they didn’t.  They also dropped all their own factions to join Freeport ones. This is a major lifestyle change here.

 

 They just moved into Freeport and we are suppose to buy it was their only option. Just like we are suppose to buy the story that Anotnia Bayle is a young human girl of 24 years. That because of her training on this secret island she is a match and the equal of Lucan and can keep him at bay. Cause we all know that 20 years of training equals the 100’s of years Lucan has had. Not to mention that he is a litch/avatar/very dead powerful guy.

 

Don’t buy into the myth, Don’t take what Lucan’s historians wrote about the dark elf’s having to move into as fact. With just a little bit of research you will see he’s lied about a lot of things.

 

Irishwonder, Im not picking on you. But you are not the first to tell me they were cut off and had to move to survive. Gnolls, Orcs, Lizzardmen, Fairys, Nymphs, many races did not move into one of the cities and seemed to survive just fine. And yes! They were one of not the most powerful races on norath. So why would they move into Freeport when during eq1 they considerd Freeport to be an enemy city to be destroyed.

 

Ole Sarge

By the pricking of my thumbs, i feel somthing wicked this way comes.

[JadeHea]

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vikingthug wrote:

I dont think Lucan is anyones pawn or avatar.  You question why he puts humans in the slumiest part of the city?  Well, all the races that dwell there live in squaler. (( Im did not say that we humans shouldnt live in squaler, but why did he give dark elfs there own section of the city that they dont have to share with anyone? While we humans got relocated? The humans were not all living in that part of the citie leaving the other parts empty just on the off chance all the other races needed to move in. We got relocated.)) 

But if you go through the city and really start looking around, most of the merchants and such are human and the majority of the city watch is human.  ((yes, many of the merchants begging you buy there whares are human. Strange how dark elfs dont seem to need to work for a living? and all the poor sods haveing to walk the beat are mostly human. But they have nice dark elf officers sitting back at the militia house keeping cool and handing out important missions.))

I believe that Lucan is probably as close to being a demi god as you can get.(( You mean hes an avatar? Get out! I wish that had been my idea.))

 Sooner or later he is gonna get tired of all those Q-scum running amok and lay some serrious hurting on some folks. ((Hes got much bigger worrys for now. There are still a couple of avatars that are trying to carry out Zeks plan and finish the shattering. Its one of the reasons Lucan as temp allied with that wench i like to call Aunt Bile. We also have a few avatars of the good gods still walking norath. We know what they did in the Tomb of destoney, but then they just fell off the face of the world. *winks* ))

 He probably has some ties to the darker Dieties but that remains to be seen.  Ol'Lucan loves his humies, botton line.  The rest of the races are just a means to an end.(( There is no probebly, The dismal rage (Innoruuk) enchanted his bodey to so he could not be killed by any man. it took groups of people to kill him. What do you think this fallen palladin gave the dismal rage for this powerful enchantment? He lost everything when he went into excile. it wasnt his pokeymon collection he gave up. ))

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Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 10:03 AM

[JadeHea]

  Here is somthing else to chew on. Back in tha day when eq2 first started, A few of the dismal rage occultists would brag about how dismal rage has found a new way to draw on their powers. How did they manage this with the world sealed off from innoruuk?

Unless he was already here...

 

“By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.”

Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 10:06 AM

[Vhalen]

Hmm... That is a very bold theory from someone serving in the Overlord's army. There are many theories on whom or what Lucan D'Lere is and what does he consider paramount in Norrath. I would like to propose a theory of my own, but researching such subjects often invites unexpected company from the Freeport Militia, or even worse, the Lucanic Knights.

As for the Teir'Dal and their newfound allegiance to Freeport, there are reasons they would be drawn to this city. One great reason to make your home in the claybrick canyons of Freeport would be the presence of the Foci. She has long been known as a legendary figure of the Teir'Dal society. With the absence of a great leader, she would be a beacon of light, or dark. The Foci had an association with the queen of Neriak and many Teir'Dal knew this, but may not care to share it with other races. Make no mistake, the Teir'Dal do not play the fool. They have good reason to be there, even a few that other Teir'Dal are not privileged to know... until the time is right.

[JadeHea]

Ok, sorry i keep adding to my own post...

But i saw this in a differnt thread and wanted to address it.

---

No offense, but Killashack wasn't the first/original person to come up with that hypothesis :smileywink: Someone posted it in these forums some time ago... and if Killashack says he's never posted here, then it couldn't have been him. Also, not to burst any bubbles, but the hypothesis was later proven false (perhaps) by the fact that the scar from Teir`Dal general in the PnP series and Lucan's scar are on opposite eyes.

---

I would hope im not the first... Cause one lone man spouting doom is just nothing more than a lunitic. :smileywink:

In my notes I call this scar "The mark". I never said the mark was on the same eye. Buti do say they both have the same scar. A mark that covers one eye. I think those that have been filled with his evil touch are marked. Maby not directly it could be more of a side affect.

Lhranc, the first human shadowknight. He has lost an eye, and wound up as undead due to a curse that comes from Marr. And he was marked by Innoruuk. But it does not say how. (( Id love to confirm the face scar is the same if anyone knows please do tell me. ))

Sarge

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Somthing wicked this way comes."

[JadeHea]

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Vhalen wrote:

Hmm... That is a very bold theory from someone serving in the Overlord's army. (( Lord Lucan knows my characters history? That ole Sarge was in his army?  *sniff* I think i just got a warm fuzzy in my black heart.))

 There are many theories on whom or what Lucan D'Lere is and what does he consider paramount in Norrath. I would like to propose a theory of my own, but researching such subjects often invites unexpected company from the Freeport Militia, or even worse, the Lucanic Knights. (( Ole Sarge is fine with Lucan being a subject of and or Innoruuk. Inorruuk hates all equally. The first ShadowKnight was human. He does not fear that being human will hurt his rank. Infact he is Loyal to Lucan to a fault. He just wishes to know a little more about his boss is all....))

As for the Teir'Dal and their newfound allegiance to Freeport, there are reasons they would be drawn to this city. One great reason to make your home in the claybrick canyons of Freeport would be the presence of the Foci. She has long been known as a legendary figure of the Teir'Dal society. With the absence of a great leader, she would be a beacon of light, or dark. The Foci had an association with the queen of Neriak and many Teir'Dal knew this, but may not care to share it with other races. ((Not to sound flippy, But i have always told any who would listen to my blabberings that All these missions into old fallen gate were to find some old artifact. ((not telling what one.))  Or had somthing to do with the queen or queens bodey.))

Make no mistake, the Teir'Dal do not play the fool. They have good reason to be there, even a few that other Teir'Dal are not privileged to know... until the time is right. (( Now i never said they were foolish, in fact i think they know exactly what they are doing. And I dont belive for a second they are the poor reffugees they pretend to be. I think freeport is under two attacks. Zek and his orcs, who could possible be allied with the Thexians. And Innoruuk and his brood of dark elfs that are takeing over the from the inside out.))

Ole Sarge

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Somthing wicked this way comes."

---

[Andric_D]

Must admit I always just presumed Lucan was the Avatar of Hate

[Kalem]

That indeed is an interesting theory ole sarge. I've had a terrible time trying to accept that all of the races would join one of the two cities. It's something that's been bugging me since way back when it was announced. Tierdal moving into freeport....even worse trolls. Ogre's with their new found intelligence choosing to serve under a human, and worst of all the Iksar. Not to mention the good side...dwarves leaving the comfort the underground to live in a city. I can understand the halflings, barbarians, and erudites, but have a harder time reconciling that for the kerran's, dwarves and high elves.

As you pointed out many races (albeit hostile races) survived just fine without the safety city walls. From dwarf to ogres, any of the races could have built settlements, and expanded on that to eventually rebuild cities. Remember the coldian (sp?) dwarves of Velious. They found themselves in foreign lands, where enemies were bountiful. If something wasn't trying to eat you it was trying to kill you for the sake of it. Yet they managed to build an icy city. I have a hard time digesting that the shattered lands are more hostile than what Velious was.

The bottom line is that I've always seen it as a time limitation the development team had. I don't think they could have built multiple major cities with the time they had, and thus decided to take this route instead. Makes me really feel sorry for Vhalen. He's no doubt had to work really hard to come up with Lore that would make sense of it all...no easy task when you have customers who played EQ1.

[Zin`Car]

Teir`Dal...  It's E - I not ie. 

 

Anyway, just a small correction, Lharnc wasn't the first SK.  He was the SK that was given Innoruuk's Curse.  Guess you could say he was the first SK to weild it.  But that's the only first he has to his name.

 

I like your theories and ideas though you have presented.  Well thought out AND substantiated... something that many fail to do when they either present an idea or argue against one.

 

If you haven't consulted them for information yet, check out the EQ PnP books.  Lot's of great lore and information there.  If you have, Kudos to you for delving into all venues possible in seeking your information.

 

*slight derail here*

"He's no doubt had to work really hard to come up with Lore that would make sense of it all...no easy task when you have customers who played EQ1."

 

Though i am sure someone (many someones) have put a lot of time into the lore of the game, but there was a TON to draw from to begin with.  I think MANY liberties were taken with A LOT of things that didn't need to be.  I can buy into Lucan being "brought back to life" and made ruler of Freeport.  It works out quite well and is befitting of the evil side stereo-type.  But things like Befallen (Stormhold) ending up on a WHOLE DIFFERENT CONTINENT is just really... poor implimentation.  It was on the same continent as Freeport... I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of the Shattering LAUNCHING a ruin into the sky and it coming back down on a whole different land...  umm... no.  But hey, i didn't get paid to write ingame lore so, i am just another peanut taking up a seat in the gallery.

Message Edited by Zin`Carla on 06-26-2006 01:18 PM

[Cusashorn]

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Andric_D wrote:
Must admit I always just presumed Lucan was the Avatar of Hate

---

Nah. Lucan doesn't believe in the gods. Even if he did, he shows more qualities of Solusek Ro than Innoruuk.

 

I'm not talking about the whole Fire thing.

 

Solusek Ro is a god who will jump at the opportunity to aquire power at the first sign he gets. All Lucan wants is power. To rule over everyone in any way he see's fit. Solusek Ro isn't specifically Evil, but he will work with evil if it means he can further spread his influence. Hence, his whole involvement with Rallos Zek in the Planes of Power.

 

 

 

That's my perspective, anyway.

[i3ry]

While we're on the subject of corrections, Befallen and Stormhold are two different structures.

[Ktok]

Interesting...

 

That Lucan is undead is actually documented in game as part of Antonia's statue's dialog.

 

What I would conclude from the information that you've posted is not that he is the Avatar of Hate, but rather he is an undead puppet controlled by the Foci.

[Cusashorn]

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Ktok wrote:

Interesting...

 

That Lucan is undead is actually documented in game as part of Antonia's statue's dialog.

 

What I would conclude from the information that you've posted is not that he is the Avatar of Hate, but rather he is an undead puppet controlled by the Foci.

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He became a Lich before The Foci aquired the power that has made her famous.

 

Either way, he's been a Lich for over 500 years, and it's quite a well known statement.

[Zin`Car]

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i3ry2k wrote:
While we're on the subject of corrections, Befallen and Stormhold are two different structures.

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that's a fine rebuttle but as i had said also in my previous statement, very few ever present substance to bolster such comments.  like this quote...

According to everything i have read regarding SH, it is supposed to be Befallen... I have no problem entertaining your opposition.  But at least put substance behind it.  Otherwise you have have the seat next to me in this (peanut) gallery.

[JadeHea]

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Ktok wrote:

Interesting...

 

That Lucan is undead is actually documented in game as part of Antonia's statue's dialog.

 

What I would conclude from the information that you've posted is not that he is the Avatar of Hate, but rather he is an undead puppet controlled by the Foci.

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Ok, like i said earlier this is only my partial notes. I got tons. **chuckles** But let me quote again from The Tomb of Destiny.

 

Quote from the Tome of Destiny:

 

An armored rider on a black horse reached the top of the summit and dismounted. He walked to the body of the fallen avatar and lifted the sword from its lifeless hand. The blade burned with unholy fire as the dark knight held it aloft.

 

"D'Lere!" the monk called out. "That sword doesn't belong to you."

 

The Overlord removed his helmet to reveal a scarred, smirking face. "Of course it does, fool," he replied. "Soulfire is now where it was always meant to be. I thank you for bringing it to me, and for delivering the true enemies of Freeport to justice."

 

That monk was one of the good avatars. Had Lucan just been a puppet undead I think he would have walked over and proceeded to kick his [Removed for Content]. But that monk was tired, and did not want to confront Lucan at all.  Also I cant see any dark elf letting a puppet wield Soulfire. That’s like letting my six year old play with a nuke.

 

Now Lucan did have all the followers of Marr butchered at the end of that battle. And its no secret he hated them after what happened to him in eq1. But I can also argue that Innoruuk was no fan of Marr and his followers either. As Marr often cursed those that Innoruuk had touched. And Inorruuk killing all of Marrs followers while in the guise of Lucan is in my opinion classic of his style and manipulation.  Innoruuk is not Zek. He does not do frontal assaults in plain view. He manipulates his enemies to fight each other.  And there is an awful lot of politics, intrigue, and manipulation going on in Freeport right now. All call signs of Innoruuk.

 

Sarge

 

“By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.”

[Cusashorn]

Innoruuk doesn't care about politics or fear or military power. He's the god of Hate. If Lucan was the influence of Innoruuk, he'd hate everyone and everything, including his own position as ruler of the city, which he clearly loves.

[JadeHea]

Yes he is the father of hate.

Innoruuk - The Prince of Hate

Innoruuk is allied with Rallos Zek and Cazic-Thule, and the enemy of Quellious, Mithaniel Marr, and Erollisi Marr.

Followers of Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate, include nearly the entire dark elven race who regard him as their "Father".

They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction.

Love and kindness are tools for those too ignorant to know what they want or too cowardly to do what is necessary to obtain it.

They believe that it is only through the total disdain of your enemies that you can gain true power over them.

Pity and mercy have no power when confronted with contempt and viciousness.

It is the honest belief of the followers of Innoruuk that if they were to hate strongly enough, they could destroy all of Norrath.

 

They are creative in there quest for destruction... lets take that quote from the tome again...

"You ignore the honor in their hearts," Mithaniel Marr countered. "They have earned the right to exist, to ascend to greatness."

"Greatness?" Innoruuk cackled gleefully. "Leave them to their own devices and they will devour themselves in jealousy and hatred. The solution is not for us to kill them, but to step aside and let them feed upon each other."

I just cant see the god of hate and destruction closeing the lid on this world and sitting back to let us destroy each other. When its what he has always wanted to do himself.

Sarge

 

Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 04:02 PM

[Cusashorn]

---

JadeHeart wrote:

Yes he is the father of hate.

Innoruuk - The Prince of Hate

Innoruuk is allied with Rallos Zek and Cazic-Thule, and the enemy of Quellious, Mithaniel Marr, and Erollisi Marr.

Followers of Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate, include nearly the entire dark elven race who regard him as their "Father".

They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction.

Love and kindness are tools for those too ignorant to know what they want or too cowardly to do what is necessary to obtain it.

They believe that it is only through the total disdain of your enemies that you can gain true power over them.

Pity and mercy have no power when confronted with contempt and viciousness.

It is the honest belief of the followers of Innoruuk that if they were to hate strongly enough, they could destroy all of Norrath.

 

They are creative in there quest for destruction...

 

Sarge

---

I'm sorry, what are you trying to point out here? Lucan wants to rule, not Destroy. He has no desire to destroy the world. He just wants to rule over it.

 

Anyways, Go ask any other religion and they can easily say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe.

[JadeHea]

---

Cusashorn wrote:

I'm sorry, what are you trying to point out here? Lucan wants to rule, not Destroy. He has no desire to destroy the world. He just wants to rule over it.  ((( Ok, again i dont think Lucan is working his own agenda but following the will of Innoruuk. Or is Innoruuk, or at the very least is his agent/avatar. I belive the reason Innoruuk voted against letting the evil gods destroy norath is that he wishes to do it himself. )))

 

Anyways, Go ask any other religion and they can easily say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. ((( This is not my words that you have issues with. 

"They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction."

If you dont like Innoruuk or his followers saying that they use hate creativily then i suggest you take it up with soney and have them change the lore on the website.

------------------------

Source: Everquest website - http://eqlive.station.sony.com/library/deities.jsp

And if you want it to say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. then pherhaps do a petition? **chuckles**  But im just posting what i have researched.

---

Sarge

 

Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 04:16 PM

[Diern]

---

Zin`Carla wrote:

Teir`Dal...  It's E - I not ie. 

 

Anyway, just a small correction, Lharnc wasn't the first SK.  He was the SK that was given Innoruuk's Curse.  Guess you could say he was the first SK to weild it.  But that's the only first he has to his name.

 

I like your theories and ideas though you have presented.  Well thought out AND substantiated... something that many fail to do when they either present an idea or argue against one.

 

If you haven't consulted them for information yet, check out the EQ PnP books.  Lot's of great lore and information there.  If you have, Kudos to you for delving into all venues possible in seeking your information.

 

*slight derail here*

"He's no doubt had to work really hard to come up with Lore that would make sense of it all...no easy task when you have customers who played EQ1."

 

Though i am sure someone (many someones) have put a lot of time into the lore of the game, but there was a TON to draw from to begin with.  I think MANY liberties were taken with A LOT of things that didn't need to be.  I can buy into Lucan being "brought back to life" and made ruler of Freeport.  It works out quite well and is befitting of the evil side stereo-type.  But things like Befallen (Stormhold) ending up on a WHOLE DIFFERENT CONTINENT is just really... poor implimentation.  It was on the same continent as Freeport... I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of the Shattering LAUNCHING a ruin into the sky and it coming back down on a whole different land...  umm... no.  But hey, i didn't get paid to write ingame lore so, i am just another peanut taking up a seat in the gallery.

Message Edited by Zin`Carla on 06-26-2006 01:18 PM

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Actually Im pretty sure Lhranc was in fact the first Shadowknght. Do you have any evidence of a SK before his time?

 

I kinda had a suspicion that Lucan was infact the avataar of hate for a while. But even if he was story development will probably change at a whim :smileywink:

[JadeHea]

Ok, i dont recall saying he was the first Shadowknight. I thought that i have been posting he was the first HUMAN Shadowknight. But i see that i did in my post to lord Lucan... Well that was a giddy slip.

I draw this lore from the eq1 epic shadowknight quest.  Here is a quote from that quest.

YOU SAY, 'What prophecy?'

Marl Kastane says 'I suppose it is time for the secret to be shared. Ages
ago, two brothers were born. Glohnor was highly favored by the pompous
Lightbringer, whose name we do not utter. Lhranc was chosen by the Prince of
Hate to bring destruction and turmoil to the sons of men. The one thing they
shared in common was their love of the fair priestess, Kyrenna. Kyrenna fell
deeply in love with Glohnor. When Lhranc discovered this, he was overcome
with rage and unwisely attacked his brother, who happened to be far more
adept in combat. The fight cost Lhranc dearly. He lost his dignity as well
as an eye in the struggle. He was ordered to leave Freeport and live his
life in exile from the only home he had ever known.

YOU SAY, 'What became of Lhranc?'

Marl Kastane says 'Lhranc wandered the deserts of Ro for weeks, sinking
deeper into depression and giving in to rage. Reports from the local
merchants and caravans had him roaming the dunes muttering to himself
incoherently. Eventually, he was forgotten, blending in with the hermits and
madmen common to that region, forgotten by all save one.

YOU SAY, 'Who is the one?'

Marl Kastane says 'Innoruuk had not forsaken Lhranc. Once his rage and hate
had matured and sufficiently altered his soul, the dark prince summoned him
and gave him dominion over the demons that had enslaved his mind. He was
given a weapon that made him powerful enough to slay any enemy that stood in
his way. He was to become the first human to harness the power of the
almighty shadowknight. After years of traveling and teaching mankind his
newfound abilities, Lhranc sneaked back into Freeport through a series of
sewers in search of revenge against his brother and in hopes of kidnapping
Kyrenna, the source of his obsession. Waiting until Glohnor was alone,
Lhranc sprang from the shadows and slew his brother. This was the act that
brought about his curse.

 

Sarge

Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 04:29 PM

[Sabatini]

---

Sarge wrote:

Freeport was the human city in eq1. After the shattering, it became the home to many of the races. The “human avatar Lucan” became its new ruler. But all the humans got the beggars quarter, which they had to share with the half elfs. Lucan mockingly renamed it Beggars Court. This is a strange way for a human ruler to treat his fello humans. Now this always bugged me because it never made sense. Why did all the humans get relocated to the crummy part of the city when our ruler is human himself? I could see us getting relocated if we had a non-human leader. But we don’t. On a side note… Dark elfs share their part f the city with no one.

---

No offense, Sarge but you're working on a faulty assumption based purely on the name of the sector. Beggar's Court is far from the 'crummiest' section of town. In Fact, of all the starting areas, the Court is the nicest. No other sector boasts such large open air areas. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find an actual beggar there. Nearly all other races get packed into tight crowded filthy alleyways, especially the Dark Elves. Further, Beggar's Court enjoys direct access to one of the richest sections of the city.

Personally, I never felt that was accidental. Lucan wants the residents of Beggar's to see the lifestyle a mere gate away for those strong enough to become a part of it. Lucan wants his subjects to get more powerful so they can serve him better. Survival of the Fittest. He even promotes literacy, interestingly enough. The opportunities are there for those willing to struggle to get them.

I believe thats the major reason those of half elven blood make their home with the humans. Lucan realizes that these half blooded outcasts, have the potential to struggle harder than any of pure blood. Because they more than anyone else have something to prove. That gives them the potential to exceed either of the races that birthed them.

Let the Dark Elves share their dark pit with no one. It gives them a false feeling of superiority over the races Lucan favors more. He's no fool, that Overlord.

[JadeHea]

Ok, lets say your right…  Why is it called beggars court? Why would a human leader give such a demeaning name to the area where those of his kind live? In old times those that lived out in a courtyard were considered the poor. Having your door open up to a market place is NOT high class living.

There is lore of what beggars court was before it was the humans home. Its not as classy as yea think lad.

 Now granted I do like it as its really easy to maneuver though. And it does have access to north Freeport. But again… it’s the open courtyard market place. You don’t really think they going to build a huge fish market in the middle of North Freeport? No… its where all the slaves go to buy foodstuffs for their Noble Masters who live in North Freeport.

 

No offence, but I can see how a rat would think this is a good thing. *winks*  Oh! one more thing... Do me the kindness not to assume what im baseing my theorys from. Like I have said many times... I have tons and tons of notes. To post it all would be to much.

 

 

Sarge

 

 

 

Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 06:44 PM

[Cusashorn]

---

JadeHeart wrote:

---

Cusashorn wrote:

I'm sorry, what are you trying to point out here? Lucan wants to rule, not Destroy. He has no desire to destroy the world. He just wants to rule over it.  ((( Ok, again i dont think Lucan is working his own agenda but following the will of Innoruuk. Or is Innoruuk, or at the very least is his agent/avatar. I belive the reason Innoruuk voted against letting the evil gods destroy norath is that he wishes to do it himself. )))

 

Anyways, Go ask any other religion and they can easily say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. ((( This is not my words that you have issues with. 

"They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction."

If you dont like Innoruuk or his followers saying that they use hate creativily then i suggest you take it up with soney and have them change the lore on the website.

------------------------

Source: Everquest website - http://eqlive.station.sony.com/library/deities.jsp

And if you want it to say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. then pherhaps do a petition? **chuckles**  But im just posting what i have researched.

---

Sarge

 

Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 04:16 PM

---

Innoruuk is only the god of hate, not Destruction. There is no god or spirit of destruction. Drinal comes close as the representing spirit of death and rebirth.

2nd: You highlighted the part where followers of Innoruuk believe that hate is the creative force of the universe in red, which suggests to me that you're trying to point that out as a key detail. I argued that detail by saying that any other worshipper of any other god can easily state that they are the creative force of the universe instead.

3rd: Lucan doesn't believe in the gods. HE DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THIER POWER. If he was influenced by Innoruuk, he would acknowledge it. He would probably be forcing the religion upon everyone in Freeport, which he doesn't.

 

 

Oh yeah. As for Beggar's Court, I think it was mentioned in the background behind Freeport that Beggar's Court is only named so because it's the re-built area of what used to be the slums of old Freeport 500 years ago.

Personally, I see it as this: You can live in Beggar's court and live like a beggar, or you can make a name for yourself by aquiring power and wealth to move out.

Message Edited by Cusashorn on 06-26-2006 07:36 PM

[JadeHea]

 

---

Innoruuk is only the god of hate, not Destruction. There is no god or spirit of destruction. Drinal comes close as the representing spirit of death and rebirth. (((Ok, im really not sure how to respond? That is a direct quote and pull from a soney lore web site. Here is anouther lore website that pulled the exact same info i did from the same source. http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_innoruuk ((This is a great site for those just starting or just learning about eq lore. The document about 95% of all lore with soney links.))

Again, if you have issues with that quote its not mine. its Soney lore.)))

2nd: You highlighted the part where followers of Innoruuk believe that hate is the creative force of the universe in red, which suggests to me that you're trying to point that out as a key detail. ((( yes, your right I did. And it was in responce to this comment you made. "Innoruuk doesn't care about politics or fear or military power. He's the god of Hate. If Lucan was the influence of Innoruuk, he'd hate everyone and everything, including his own position as ruler of the city, which he clearly loves." I was just pointing out that his hate can be highly creative. For example he destroyed a gods creation by stealing some high elfs and touching them. Turning them into a twisted creation of his own. His destruction doesnt mean smashing somthing to bits. It has a creative spin to it. Its not enough to just destroy somthing, he likes to do it in a way that makes you cry. Like feeding your dog raw fish so it gets sick and you end up being the one who has to put it to sleep.

I argued that detail by saying that any other worshipper of any other god can easily state that they are the creative force of the universe instead. ((( Again, these are not my words. if you want that statment added to the gods lore description you must speak to a rep at the soney lore site. These are not words i made up. I was just pointing out Innoruuk's acts of destruction can be creative and manipulative, as the lore states.)))

3rd: Lucan doesn't believe in the gods. HE DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THIER POWER. (((Well of course not, he "Innoruuk" wants everyone to worship him so he is the most powerful. Then he can make his move to destroy all of Norath. )))If he was influenced by Innoruuk, he would acknowledge it. He would probably be forcing the religion upon everyone in Freeport, which he doesn't. ((( And how is that even remotely creative? thats like walking up to a drugstore and saying, "Im going to come back in 30 mins by then i should have all the gas, guns, and power to destroy you all. So if yea dont mind would you sit back and wait for me to return?" Just because the people of freeport are more inclined to be evil, that doesnt make them dumb. In fact evil people are more inclined for self preservation. If Lucan "Innooruuk" confessed to such a thing there would be mass rioting.)))

 

 

Oh yeah. As for Beggar's Court, I think it was mentioned in the background behind Freeport that Beggar's Court is only named so because it's the re-built area of what used to be the slums of old Freeport 500 years ago.(((Aye, i read the same thing... just cant find it in all my notes. It was also used as a dock for goods to be brought into north freeport. But again... cant find it in my notes. To to to many notes.)))

Personally, I see it as this: You can live in Beggar's court and live like a beggar, or you can make a name for yourself by aquiring power and wealth to move out.((( I see it more as lets take the city away from the humans, give them the servents/beggers quarter to live in. Cause its not enough just to take over, We have to kick them to the slums. And bring my children in and set up shop. Gather all races under me to worship til I have the power to destroy the world!)))

Message Edited by Cusashorn on 06-26-2006 07:36 PM

---

And this next part is on a funny note just to keep it all friendly...

Lucan the brain of this mad scheme looks out over freeport and his growing domain. He turns to his dark elf and says, "Are you thinking what im thinking inkie?" The dark elf responds, "Shor am brain, but how we gona get the trolls to dance with the lizards and do the poka?"

Sarge

 

Message Edited by JadeHeart on 06-26-2006 06:49 PM

[Cusashorn]

Meh. I'm done arguing about this subject. Untill we find out more about Lucan in the game, it's all up for debate.