Manacure seems to be useless.

Kilaelya · 12-16-2006, 12:35 PM

It's a shame this is the end to a very good AA line, because I can not see how this ability can be very useful in any situation. Raid or group. Cure cast time is very fast, and the chance that you have the right kind of caster type in your group to even have a smaller chance that they will cast a spell while your group has the same type of effect on them makes this... useless. Heck, it doesn't even say what percent chance you have to cure effects.

I can at least speak from a raiding point of view, that negative effects are always cured as quickly as possible. They don't stay up long enough for this to be useful. Plus, the only place I can see this being useful is if your group is stunned and healers can't cure... but then casters can't be casting, either =p

I haven't seen this cure anything since I've gotten it, but I haven't seen a message for it if it does work. This AA would be useful if it cured non-cureable effects, but I haven't seen that happen, either.

Has anyone tried to play around with it and see if the point into it is actuallty worth it?

Whitemane · 12-16-2006, 03:00 PM

I played with it quite a bit in Beta and thought it was pretty ... Meh then even when you could cast it on Raid Friend. Now however I see its group friend only. Considering Im always in the MT group I dont think I'll be getting it ever as the the only caster in the group is usually a dirge or occasionally a Conjurer or Coecer .. Not very usefull at all. Borderline totally useless

Kilaelya wrote:

It's a shame this is the end to a very good AA line, because I can not see how this ability can be very useful in any situation. Raid or group. Cure cast time is very fast, and the chance that you have the right kind of caster type in your group to even have a smaller chance that they will cast a spell while your group has the same type of effect on them makes this... useless. Heck, it doesn't even say what percent chance you have to cure effects.

I can at least speak from a raiding point of view, that negative effects are always cured as quickly as possible. They don't stay up long enough for this to be useful. Plus, the only place I can see this being useful is if your group is stunned and healers can't cure... but then casters can't be casting, either =p

I haven't seen this cure anything since I've gotten it, but I haven't seen a message for it if it does work. This AA would be useful if it cured non-cureable effects, but I haven't seen that happen, either.

Has anyone tried to play around with it and see if the point into it is actuallty worth it?

Kizee · 12-16-2006, 06:41 PM

I was going to get this AA but like the previous poster said....if you are a MT templar it is pretty useless.

Lol · 12-16-2006, 11:01 PM

your lookin at it all wrong.. ALL HOSTILE SPELLS! SO I.E. If a zerker casts his spells... tohse are trauma based so oyu have a chance ot be cured of all trauma effects... Templar debuffs are what divine based i think.. ect ect... it really isnt that bad

Antryg Mistrose · 12-17-2006, 01:12 AM

Lolla wrote:
your lookin at it all wrong.. ALL HOSTILE SPELLS! SO I.E. If a zerker casts his spells... tohse are trauma based so oyu have a chance ot be cured of all trauma effects... Templar debuffs are what divine based i think.. ect ect... it really isnt that bad

Enough said.

Omega · 12-17-2006, 03:26 AM

Many times abilities will differentiate and say "combat arts" for melees and not spells, specially if you have ever played a melee. My assassin for example. His aa for "spell crits" says it only affects poisons. Combat arts use melee crit to determine if they are critical hits (try your own "combat arts" you get from aa's). In short, i'm saying a beserker's trauma combat art probably wont affect this. But hey this game is getting progressively buggier so it might work fine.

Whitemane · 12-17-2006, 03:52 AM

If it worked that way I'd be all over this AA like white on rice. However CA's are not counted as Hostile Spells hence they arent affected by Mana Cure assuming the spell description is correct or that it hasnt changed since beta. So in short casting this on your MT is pointless and you cant proc off a proc any longer so you wont even get that ...

Antryg Mistrose wrote:

Lolla wrote:

your lookin at it all wrong.. ALL HOSTILE SPELLS! SO I.E. If a zerker casts his spells... tohse are trauma based so oyu have a chance ot be cured of all trauma effects... Templar debuffs are what divine based i think.. ect ect... it really isnt that bad

Enough said.

Raistlan · 12-17-2006, 04:11 AM

Ok, first off this will not work with a zerker. It will work with a paladin. Second, I've been calling this spell useless since the day I got into beta and saw the stats. I spent a lot of time raiding and grouping, and it NEVER cured anything for me, and I would be swapping it between group members according to what debuffs were hitting my group. Also, it cures the type of affliction that the spell that procs it is. A poison spell won't proc a noxious cure, it will proc a poison cure.Edit - Summary - it's useless, don't buy it, don't cast it, but continue trying to get it changed into something worthwhile - please dev's, you know it's useless, I bugged and feedbacked it as useless and so did practically every templar in beta. You can't chance a raid's success on the POSSIBILITY of this spell proc'ing the right cure. Either totally revamp it, or have each proc on a delay of 30 seconds, and if the right debuff resist type hits, the proc charge expends and cures the group.

Message Edited by Raistlan on 12-17-2006 09:14 AM

Kilaelya · 12-17-2006, 09:20 AM

Yeah, thinking I'm going to point this extra point into my mit debuff now. Played with this buff again today and all it seems to be is a wasted spot on my hotbars. However, I'm trying to think of some other suggestions to make this worth while...

Wastura · 12-18-2006, 12:22 AM

Foremost, Spurn should be maxxed.

Secondly, I can't give the specifics of the situation, but while using this in a zone with charming mobs etc, I found that the proc'ing of a cure mental from a coercer really helped my group not kill each other, and stopped me from wasting time trying to kill a swashbuckler and instead focus back on healing the tank.

A conj in my group had cast a nuke while I was mid-cast group reactive, just as an elemental dot hit the group for really freaking hard, the conj hit him, dot when away, finished group reactive, didn't have to suppliment with a group heal and moved into debuffs.

The chances are pretty substantial and I'll be getting this one back soon as I get more to finish my current line and move into cures again.

Raistlan · 12-18-2006, 12:37 AM

Wastura wrote:

Foremost, Spurn should be maxxed.

Secondly, I can't give the specifics of the situation, but while using this in a zone with charming mobs etc, I found that the proc'ing of a cure mental from a coercer really helped my group not kill each other, and stopped me from wasting time trying to kill a swashbuckler and instead focus back on healing the tank.

A conj in my group had cast a nuke while I was mid-cast group reactive, just as an elemental dot hit the group for really freaking hard, the conj hit him, dot when away, finished group reactive, didn't have to suppliment with a group heal and moved into debuffs.

The chances are pretty substantial and I'll be getting this one back soon as I get more to finish my current line and move into cures again.

Strange with the charms, they're not curable... if its curing it, then that seems bugged, but in a good way. You seem to be a lot luckier than most of us with when the cures actually hit though, if everyone had it working like you it would probably be worth buying it. As for chances being substantial - from memory its 10% from before they changed how it displays.

Mabes · 12-18-2006, 01:14 AM

I have this too, going to play around with it for a bit, but a couple questions I have for the devs is:1) It says "when your allies cast hostile spells" - Does allies mean just the target with the buff, or group members, or anyone in the raid?2) Also, what is the chance of getting the cure? Why not put a % in the description, rather than just say "a chance"3) Does it give a message in chat if it procs? Is there anyway of knowing if it went off?4) If someone, for example, casts a heat based spell, and it procs, will it group cure just a heat based cure, or will it be an elemental cure(heat and cold)?If these are the answers:1) just target w/ buff2) a small %3) no message in chat4) just the single type cure then yeah this ability would be a horrible end of line ability.

PhroZenAssassin · 12-18-2006, 03:54 PM

I could see some use... IF it was placeable on a "raid friend", but at the moment, I'm putting the point onto something more useful.

Dragonreal · 12-18-2006, 05:42 PM

if there is a message, I'd bet chances are high that it'd only show up for the person who procced the cure like how when you cast a cure on someone and cure something only you can see the cure message.

EQAditu · 12-19-2006, 04:57 AM

Mabes wrote:I have this too, going to play around with it for a bit, but a couple questions I have for the devs is:1) It says "when your allies cast hostile spells" - Does allies mean just the target with the buff, or group members, or anyone in the raid?2) Also, what is the chance of getting the cure? Why not put a % in the description, rather than just say "a chance"3) Does it give a message in chat if it procs? Is there anyway of knowing if it went off?4) If someone, for example, casts a heat based spell, and it procs, will it group cure just a heat based cure, or will it be an elemental cure(heat and cold)?If these are the answers:1) just target w/ buff2) a small %3) no message in chat4) just the single type cure then yeah this ability would be a horrible end of line ability.

Horribly old beta info, but it was just a group friend that you buffed that could trigger it... for a while it listed a 20%(would it get normalized?) chance before dissapearing as it is now... I never got it to work so I cannot say what message it gives... and it's just the single type cure. Poison and disease effects are separate. The effects list was very long due to this... saying 20% seven times and listing the cure type... like a page and a half or something. Anyhow, that list did not include trauma effects (crushing/slashing/piercing). I don't recall if it said it could work on heat based CA attacks for instance, or just heat based spells.

dancemice · 12-22-2006, 03:53 PM

I had a templar. who admitted to not playing a templar (just brought her out for this raid) instead, playing a fury. tell me that i was wasting my aa's by not getting this cure.

I laughed at her ... For most of the raid as i outhealed, out damaged and out debuffed her....

-B-

Sokolov · 12-26-2006, 12:26 PM

Broken AAs suck =/ The concept for this is kind of cool, but the implementation is apparently completely lacking.Don't hold your breath tho, Defilers still have a KoS AA ability that has never worked properly =D

Message Edited by Sokolov on 12-25-2006 11:26 PM

genesis013 · 12-27-2006, 07:13 PM

Lots of raid mobs in EoF reflect spells, so it would be usefull in that situation.

12-16-2006, 12:35 PM	#1
Kilaelya Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 126	It's a shame this is the end to a very good AA line, because I can not see how this ability can be very useful in any situation. Raid or group. Cure cast time is very fast, and the chance that you have the right kind of caster type in your group to even have a smaller chance that they will cast a spell while your group has the same type of effect on them makes this... useless. Heck, it doesn't even say what percent chance you have to cure effects. I can at least speak from a raiding point of view, that negative effects are always cured as quickly as possible. They don't stay up long enough for this to be useful. Plus, the only place I can see this being useful is if your group is stunned and healers can't cure... but then casters can't be casting, either =p I haven't seen this cure anything since I've gotten it, but I haven't seen a message for it if it does work. This AA would be useful if it cured non-cureable effects, but I haven't seen that happen, either. Has anyone tried to play around with it and see if the point into it is actuallty worth it? __________________

12-16-2006, 03:00 PM	#2
Whitemane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 195	I played with it quite a bit in Beta and thought it was pretty ... Meh then even when you could cast it on Raid Friend. Now however I see its group friend only. Considering Im always in the MT group I dont think I'll be getting it ever as the the only caster in the group is usually a dirge or occasionally a Conjurer or Coecer .. Not very usefull at all. Borderline totally useless Kilaelya wrote: It's a shame this is the end to a very good AA line, because I can not see how this ability can be very useful in any situation. Raid or group. Cure cast time is very fast, and the chance that you have the right kind of caster type in your group to even have a smaller chance that they will cast a spell while your group has the same type of effect on them makes this... useless. Heck, it doesn't even say what percent chance you have to cure effects. I can at least speak from a raiding point of view, that negative effects are always cured as quickly as possible. They don't stay up long enough for this to be useful. Plus, the only place I can see this being useful is if your group is stunned and healers can't cure... but then casters can't be casting, either =p I haven't seen this cure anything since I've gotten it, but I haven't seen a message for it if it does work. This AA would be useful if it cured non-cureable effects, but I haven't seen that happen, either. Has anyone tried to play around with it and see if the point into it is actuallty worth it?

12-16-2006, 11:01 PM	#4
Lol General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13	your lookin at it all wrong.. ALL HOSTILE SPELLS! SO I.E. If a zerker casts his spells... tohse are trauma based so oyu have a chance ot be cured of all trauma effects... Templar debuffs are what divine based i think.. ect ect... it really isnt that bad __________________ "Life is but a series of moments. Live them well for we know not what tomorrow holds for us."

12-17-2006, 01:12 AM	#5
Antryg Mistrose Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 893	Lolla wrote: your lookin at it all wrong.. ALL HOSTILE SPELLS! SO I.E. If a zerker casts his spells... tohse are trauma based so oyu have a chance ot be cured of all trauma effects... Templar debuffs are what divine based i think.. ect ect... it really isnt that bad Enough said. __________________ Illusionist//Paladin/Dirge/Templar Jeweler/Sage/Alchemist/Prov

12-17-2006, 03:52 AM	#7
Whitemane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 195	If it worked that way I'd be all over this AA like white on rice. However CA's are not counted as Hostile Spells hence they arent affected by Mana Cure assuming the spell description is correct or that it hasnt changed since beta. So in short casting this on your MT is pointless and you cant proc off a proc any longer so you wont even get that ... Antryg Mistrose wrote: Lolla wrote: your lookin at it all wrong.. ALL HOSTILE SPELLS! SO I.E. If a zerker casts his spells... tohse are trauma based so oyu have a chance ot be cured of all trauma effects... Templar debuffs are what divine based i think.. ect ect... it really isnt that bad Enough said.

12-16-2006, 06:41 PM	#3
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	I was going to get this AA but like the previous poster said....if you are a MT templar it is pretty useless.

12-17-2006, 03:26 AM	#6
Omega Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12	Many times abilities will differentiate and say "combat arts" for melees and not spells, specially if you have ever played a melee. My assassin for example. His aa for "spell crits" says it only affects poisons. Combat arts use melee crit to determine if they are critical hits (try your own "combat arts" you get from aa's). In short, i'm saying a beserker's trauma combat art probably wont affect this. But hey this game is getting progressively buggier so it might work fine.

12-17-2006, 04:11 AM	#8
Raistlan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 266	Ok, first off this will not work with a zerker. It will work with a paladin. Second, I've been calling this spell useless since the day I got into beta and saw the stats. I spent a lot of time raiding and grouping, and it NEVER cured anything for me, and I would be swapping it between group members according to what debuffs were hitting my group. Also, it cures the type of affliction that the spell that procs it is. A poison spell won't proc a noxious cure, it will proc a poison cure.Edit - Summary - it's useless, don't buy it, don't cast it, but continue trying to get it changed into something worthwhile - please dev's, you know it's useless, I bugged and feedbacked it as useless and so did practically every templar in beta. You can't chance a raid's success on the POSSIBILITY of this spell proc'ing the right cure. Either totally revamp it, or have each proc on a delay of 30 seconds, and if the right debuff resist type hits, the proc charge expends and cures the group. Message Edited by Raistlan on 12-17-2006 09:14 AM __________________ Lady Karia Starweaver, Retired Templar of Najena

12-17-2006, 09:20 AM	#9
Kilaelya Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 126	Yeah, thinking I'm going to point this extra point into my mit debuff now. Played with this buff again today and all it seems to be is a wasted spot on my hotbars. However, I'm trying to think of some other suggestions to make this worth while... __________________

12-18-2006, 12:22 AM	#10
Wastura Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 141	Foremost, Spurn should be maxxed. Secondly, I can't give the specifics of the situation, but while using this in a zone with charming mobs etc, I found that the proc'ing of a cure mental from a coercer really helped my group not kill each other, and stopped me from wasting time trying to kill a swashbuckler and instead focus back on healing the tank. A conj in my group had cast a nuke while I was mid-cast group reactive, just as an elemental dot hit the group for really freaking hard, the conj hit him, dot when away, finished group reactive, didn't have to suppliment with a group heal and moved into debuffs. The chances are pretty substantial and I'll be getting this one back soon as I get more to finish my current line and move into cures again.

12-18-2006, 12:37 AM	#11
Raistlan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 266	Wastura wrote: Foremost, Spurn should be maxxed. Secondly, I can't give the specifics of the situation, but while using this in a zone with charming mobs etc, I found that the proc'ing of a cure mental from a coercer really helped my group not kill each other, and stopped me from wasting time trying to kill a swashbuckler and instead focus back on healing the tank. A conj in my group had cast a nuke while I was mid-cast group reactive, just as an elemental dot hit the group for really freaking hard, the conj hit him, dot when away, finished group reactive, didn't have to suppliment with a group heal and moved into debuffs. The chances are pretty substantial and I'll be getting this one back soon as I get more to finish my current line and move into cures again. Strange with the charms, they're not curable... if its curing it, then that seems bugged, but in a good way. You seem to be a lot luckier than most of us with when the cures actually hit though, if everyone had it working like you it would probably be worth buying it. As for chances being substantial - from memory its 10% from before they changed how it displays. __________________ Lady Karia Starweaver, Retired Templar of Najena

12-18-2006, 01:14 AM	#12
Mabes Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 376	I have this too, going to play around with it for a bit, but a couple questions I have for the devs is:1) It says "when your allies cast hostile spells" - Does allies mean just the target with the buff, or group members, or anyone in the raid?2) Also, what is the chance of getting the cure? Why not put a % in the description, rather than just say "a chance"3) Does it give a message in chat if it procs? Is there anyway of knowing if it went off?4) If someone, for example, casts a heat based spell, and it procs, will it group cure just a heat based cure, or will it be an elemental cure(heat and cold)?If these are the answers:1) just target w/ buff2) a small %3) no message in chat4) just the single type cure then yeah this ability would be a horrible end of line ability. __________________ Tion - Templar \ Jeweler - Nektulos Varos - Assassin - Nektulos

12-18-2006, 03:54 PM	#13
PhroZenAssassin Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 69	I could see some use... IF it was placeable on a "raid friend", but at the moment, I'm putting the point onto something more useful. __________________

12-18-2006, 05:42 PM	#14
Dragonreal General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,554	if there is a message, I'd bet chances are high that it'd only show up for the person who procced the cure like how when you cast a cure on someone and cure something only you can see the cure message.

12-19-2006, 04:57 AM	#15
EQAditu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 308	Mabes wrote:I have this too, going to play around with it for a bit, but a couple questions I have for the devs is:1) It says "when your allies cast hostile spells" - Does allies mean just the target with the buff, or group members, or anyone in the raid?2) Also, what is the chance of getting the cure? Why not put a % in the description, rather than just say "a chance"3) Does it give a message in chat if it procs? Is there anyway of knowing if it went off?4) If someone, for example, casts a heat based spell, and it procs, will it group cure just a heat based cure, or will it be an elemental cure(heat and cold)?If these are the answers:1) just target w/ buff2) a small %3) no message in chat4) just the single type cure then yeah this ability would be a horrible end of line ability. Horribly old beta info, but it was just a group friend that you buffed that could trigger it... for a while it listed a 20%(would it get normalized?) chance before dissapearing as it is now... I never got it to work so I cannot say what message it gives... and it's just the single type cure. Poison and disease effects are separate. The effects list was very long due to this... saying 20% seven times and listing the cure type... like a page and a half or something. Anyhow, that list did not include trauma effects (crushing/slashing/piercing). I don't recall if it said it could work on heat based CA attacks for instance, or just heat based spells. __________________ (EQ2) Aditu -- Templar of Nektulos(Lavastorm)->Permafrost (EQ1) Aditu Sa`onserei -- Cleric of The Tribunal My parsing project:

12-22-2006, 03:53 PM	#16
dancemice Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 201	I had a templar. who admitted to not playing a templar (just brought her out for this raid) instead, playing a fury. tell me that i was wasting my aa's by not getting this cure. I laughed at her ... For most of the raid as i outhealed, out damaged and out debuffed her.... -B- __________________ Dogs have Owners - Cats have Staff.

12-26-2006, 12:26 PM	#17
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	Broken AAs suck =/ The concept for this is kind of cool, but the implementation is apparently completely lacking.Don't hold your breath tho, Defilers still have a KoS AA ability that has never worked properly =D Message Edited by Sokolov on 12-25-2006 11:26 PM __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

12-27-2006, 07:13 PM	#18
genesis013 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NH Posts: 37	Lots of raid mobs in EoF reflect spells, so it would be usefull in that situation.