Conjuror class troubles

Redorio · 12-10-2004, 05:23 PM

1) "Pet dancing" ok, when will this be fixed? It's pretty serious. It means you often can't loot mobs you kill (body is out of range even though it's at your feet), it can cause mobs to run miles away form you or your party.

2) DoTs do not stack, thus having 2 or more conjurors is almost pointless.

3) Rarity of spells, some conjuror adepts simple don't drop or are rare as a shaved dwarf. Tellurian Soldier...Dust Blast...where are they? Note Dust Blast is our ONLY DD nuke so should be as common as the Tellurian Recruit Adept if not more so...we'll have that spell all the way to lvl 50!

4) When you complete the Qeynos class quest, which causes two gnolls to spawn when you run around near Black Burrow..this KEEPS HAPPENING! It never stops!

5) The various pet siphon spells that take health from the pet to make power for the conjuror, cause the pet to react as if it's being ATTACKED byt he conjuror! It stops fighting and runs at the conjuror.

6) Why are we the only class to constantly go OOM in fights? Look at power use in any fight and you'lll see conjurors constantly burning through mana very heavily to achieve the same results as other classes.

7) Was in Stormhold, ever time you click the drain cover to zone through to the library, or back, your pet gets stuck back inthe other part of the zone!

Pet buffs like Agitation cause serious power drain while in effect: WHY have a power drain at all?? Agitation also currenlty bugs a lot and becomes uncastable as if it's duration had run and recast time was in effect.

Now, having said that, I find the class fun SMILEY

Problem is the bugs, not the game.

Message Edited by Redorious on 12-19-2004 01:55 PM

Ixiter · 12-10-2004, 09:15 PM

4) Just wait until you finish AQ6 and decide that the Ruins of Varsoon is a good place to exp.6) You should never be going OOM unless you are not essence shifting during the fight as well as after. Or you fight like 3 adds in a row.The rest has been said a thousand times. Don't expect it to get fixed all that soon.

laedyana · 12-11-2004, 04:48 AM

actually I think the list up top is a good one and accurately represents most of the challenges I run into.

Zimin · 12-11-2004, 06:04 AM

Same for me. Good list.

I'd like to add one...

7.) We are the least desirable DPS for a group. Hands down.

Xeth · 12-11-2004, 10:51 AM

Fix the Flaming Agony spell. We are doing less dps because of it doing only one tick of 30-40 dmg.Fix the Tremor spell that won't show the dot icon in the mantained spells.Fix the Spiked Rain spell so it shows the dot icon in the mantained spells.Fix all the spells we dont know of and are bugged LoL

Message Edited by Xethar on 12-10-2004 09:54 PM

Roland of the E · 12-11-2004, 11:13 AM

Agreed, I wish a Dev would at least say ONE thing concerning the conj class. Not one of the spell fixes has been done for the Conj, not one..... SMILEY

Roland of the E · 12-11-2004, 11:15 AM

Oh and I would like to add another:

- When in dungeons pets get lost/stuck in walls/become invis

-pets do not gain aggro for a group of mobs (ie at least one of two mobs will keep attacking caster)

-pet does keep attacking group after it has killed one.....

blind_hamm · 12-11-2004, 04:01 PM

6) Why are we the only class to constantly go OOM in fights? Look at power use in any fight and you'lll see conjurors constantly burning through mana very heavily to achieve the same results as other classes.

I never have issues with power in a group. Even solo, I can usually take on a orange creature with only half of my power pool. The secret is to not chain nuke Dust Blast; it is a highly inefficient spell that becomes meaningless later. One of the main assets of the Conjuror's pet is that it is a power battery -- get Essence Shift up to at least Adept I, use Instant Vim, and so on -- you'll get your power back much faster than anyone else in your group.

Zimin · 12-11-2004, 07:34 PM

Blind Hammer, if you arent being close to OOM after every fight then you must not be unleashing all of your DOTs. And if your Not unleashing all of your DOTs then you must not be doing hardly any damage at all.

Xeth · 12-11-2004, 08:25 PM

Ziminar wrote:
Blind Hammer, if you arent being close to OOM after every fight then you must not be unleashing all of your DOTs. And if your Not unleashing all of your DOTs then you must not be doing hardly any damage at all.

Completely agree. 32 Conjuror of Crushbone.

blind_hamm · 12-12-2004, 04:15 PM

Ziminar wrote:

Blind Hammer, if you arent being close to OOM after every fight then you must not be unleashing all of your DOTs. And if your Not unleashing all of your DOTs then you must not be doing hardly any damage at all.

There are many ways to play a Conjuror. If you want to burn through all your power in order to provide sub-par damage for your group and, at the end of the fight, make the group sit around and wait while you get power back, go ahead.

Conjurors provide a tremendous amount of utility to a group. Once I stopped thinking of a Conjuror as a class that generates massive damage per second, I became very happy with the class. We're not a pure damage class. If I were a group leader and I wanted someone that could simply do more damage, faster -- I'd pick a wizard. Or even a scout. Both generate more damage than we ever can. But if I wanted a fair to good damage class that can aid the group, I'd go with a Conjuror and/or a Illusionist. We're almost like the bards of the scout class. Sure, Rangers and Assassins can do more damage but dirges offer several abilities that makes groups more efficient.

Using group DoTs on single ^^ creatures is a huge waste of power, with the exception of Shattered Ground. If you are casting Seism or Tremor on a single and you are 30+, there is a problem. If you are facing multiple group foes, then you can reduce white and yellow creatures to 80% health across the board by using a total of four spells. Want to throw in another Tremor? Sure, go ahead. I'm still at 55% power. And, to be honest, if your group cannot go cut through four white or yellow critters by the time it takes for Tremor to run out (twice) or Shattered Ground to reactivate, then you might want to look for another group.

It is not the role of a Conjuror to outdamage the entire rest of the group. We have very effective AE spells and we have some very effective single spells that we can use. I consider my job as a Conjuror done if I can reduce non ^^ critters health down to 50-60% in total aggregate damage (in other words, in a group of four I have killed two). On ^^ creatures, it's more efficient for me to just chain Spiked Rain rather than casting grey AE DoTs (Seism) with the exception of Shattered Ground. And I consider my job as a good team player done when I don't have to make the group sit around while I get my power back. My normal groups usually move quickly.

I actually posted my original message before I went shopping. Today I picked up Master I Essence Shift. With one cast, I can get back -- oh, I'd say 30% power. Instant Vim is probably 5-10% (only Apprentice II). So, that means that I can get back roughtly 40% of my power with two spells. I can cycle that in, what, 20 seconds if I am REALLY out of power.

I am big proponent for people playing a class they want to play. If you want to spend all your power on AE DoTs in order to be at roughly the same level as a wizard, then you can certainly do so! But to say that I hardly do any damage ... I can prevent nearly 1500-2500 points of damage during a hard fight while doing considerable damage and secondary debuffing. And I have a hulking golem thing chasing me around, scaring people. To me, that's fun.

Message Edited by blind_hammer on 12-12-2004 03:20 AM

Lorin_Birkbla · 12-12-2004, 04:35 PM

rofl sorry kelin but i had to reply to your post, i think you live in a dreamland SMILEY

please tell us waht the "tremendous amount of utility" is that conjurer bring to the group ...

your only group buff apart from the normal mage power buffs is fire seed an that does next to no damage

or do you consider our 1 stun that is usable on levle 35+ mobs "tremendous utility " ?

hmm lets see other casters get stun too , wizard even get ae stun and they get evac

they do more damage against single ++ mobs and have better aes ....

sorry i dont want to talk conjurer down but they need some fixing in form of either more group utility or more dps and i doesnt help when people get used to beeing sub par to other class and settle with it

Lorin

39 Conjurer Valor

blind_hamm · 12-12-2004, 05:05 PM

Lorin_Birkblatt wrote:

rofl sorry kelin but i had to reply to your post, i think you live in a dreamland

please tell us waht the "tremendous amount of utility" is that conjurer bring to the group ...

your only group buff apart from the normal mage power buffs is fire seed an that does next to no damage

or do you consider our 1 stun that is usable on levle 35+ mobs "tremendous utility " ?

hmm lets see other casters get stun too , wizard even get ae stun and they get evac

they do more damage against single ++ mobs and have better aes ....

sorry i dont want to talk conjurer down but they need some fixing in form of either more group utility or more dps and i doesnt help when people get used to beeing sub par to other class and settle with it

Yes, let's look at the wizards crowd control:

25 - Boreal (Single target Mez: Costs power + Immobilizes the Wizard throughout)

27 - Blazing Intimidation (Heat DD + Stun)

33 - Tether - (Root, will break instantly is dmg received)

39 - Aurora (Mez, costs power and immobilizes wizard)

Note that 1) Roots are generally not too helpful in group situations and 2) wizards get a horrible mez which disables them throughout the fight. That is not crowd control. That is not stunning. I can't comment on the 27 spell other than to say that while the wizard is casting this spell (which takes a while to cast), he is not casting -- our pet will keep on attacking.

Look at Conjurors

16 - Petrify (Stun)

30 - Frozen by Time (Stun + Magic DD)

33 - Quicksand (Root, +brief movement speed reduction on expire)

44 - Heatwave (Stun, +Heat DD)

These are stuns. That means that monsters cannot attack. They cannot cast. They take full damage. And furthermore Conjurors are not immobilized throughout by a mez that may or may not be broken.

In long battles against a tough ^^ I can usually stun 3 or 4 times. Let's assume that the average stun is 5 seconds for a creature being hit. That's 20 seconds of a creature not hitting a tank with minimal power use. I have no idea how much damage certain monsters do but let's say for the sake of argument that they do 200 point of damage every 3 seconds. I have prevented nearly 1300 points of damage by stunning. Now let's throw in Volatile Refuge. I can't remember exactly, but I believe that it wards 400 points of damage at Master I (might be 300). Say I can cast that twice a round. I have now prevented roughly 2100 points of damage on our tank.

On top of this I can cast the following:

1. Shattered Ground (1)

2. Bludgenoning Earth (2-3 times)

3. Spiked Rain (as much as I want).

4. Flaming Agony (completely broken and not working)

Oh, but wait! I also have a soldier that is attacking, albeit slowly for 50 + massive special damage + stun. And the soldier is not even our offensive pet. And to top it off, we are almost never out of power.

I can't comment on the post 35+ play. You are certainly much higher level than me. I wish that our pets were more powerful. I think SOE wants to limit the power of our pets so we don't become a pure solo'ing class. I didn't exactly sign up to me the master of DoTs when I picked a Conjuror. I'd also like to see our stuns extended slightly.

Message Edited by blind_hammer on 12-12-2004 04:14 AM

Sailormoon · 12-12-2004, 08:10 PM

Wizards get Evac, which is invaluable group utility. And AE roots would help if the Add is a group of mobs insteand of a single one. Wizards Power over Time proc is better than our summoned mod rod in my opinion. Maybe some of you might disagree. And I think the damage proc of Wizard maybe the same as our Fire Seed.

Lorin_Birkbla · 12-13-2004, 04:10 AM

low level stuns dont work on higher mobs you get a message saying target is to high , i can only use 1 stun frozen bye time on mobs in my level range this lasts about 5 secs thats all i have as crowed control since the quicksand root is a 4 sec cast totally worseless

dont get how you can stun a mob 4 times in a fight, stuns have 30 sec timer and blau - orange ++ mobs dont last longer then 30 secs in decent exp groups so its down to 1 stun and wizard got 1 too

you named all the spells you cast a encounter thats fine but thats not "tremenous utility" thats dps and wizard spells are 25 - 50 % better then our damage wise including our pet dps

blind_hamm · 12-13-2004, 06:10 AM

Lorin_Birkblatt wrote:

low level stuns dont work on higher mobs you get a message saying target is to high , i can only use 1 stun frozen bye time on mobs in my level range this lasts about 5 secs thats all i have as crowed control since the quicksand root is a 4 sec cast totally worseless

dont get how you can stun a mob 4 times in a fight, stuns have 30 sec timer and blau - orange ++ mobs dont last longer then 30 secs in decent exp groups so its down to 1 stun and wizard got 1 too

you named all the spells you cast a encounter thats fine but thats not "tremenous utility" thats dps and wizard spells are 25 - 50 % better then our damage wise including our pet dps

I said that I can't comment on the post 35 play since I'm not quite that level. I'm nearing 32. I have started to experience some critters that, like you said, are simply too powerful to use Petrify on. For some reason I always thought this was due to level difference since I have been fighting things 5 or 6 levels above me. I imagine that when I am forced to have only one stun, I'll be whining as well.

I think Conjurors are more group oriented because they are more flexible than wizards. Wizards just nuke. That's about all that they can do. And while Evac is nice at 39, I believe that most scouts get the same skill before level 27 or so. So if you have a scout in your group, then the wizard's evac isn't necessarily unbalanced or overpowering. We also get group invis at level 35 which can be very helpful.

Before Petrify stops working, we can stun twice. Unless I am clearly delusional, Petrify is on a 45 second timer at level 31. Thus it is possible to Petrify, wait a few seconds then stun using Frozen in Time. By the time that the stun from FiT runs out, we only have a few seconds to wait for Petrify again. I have also managed to get off two Frozen in Times during a battle -- usually against orange or red ^^ group/raid critters that have a lot of hit points. Anyways, Petrify is the first spell that I cast when battle begins so the timing isn't too bad.

And then there is Refuge. I can throw this on a tank type and help mitigate the alpha strike of intitial contact. Or I can use it when templars are slowly casting heal. It's fast and it wards either 300/400 points of damage. I have saved several tanks' lives because I have been able to ward them before the clerics can heal them.

Our pet also provides damage mitigation on adds and consistent damage. It is possible for the Adept III Soldier (and Veteran I assume) to handle things for some time. I believe the utility of the pet is on par with the additional damage that a wizard does.

I'm not saying the Conjuror class is great or perfect. I am sure improvements can be made. Am I happy with the class right now? Well, yes and no. I think many more Conjurors (and Necromancers) would be happy if any of our pet books actually dropped. I find it suspicious that Adept I Soldier has not been found on any server (I believe the Necro equivalent at 24 is about the same) and I haven't seen any books for the 32 or 34 spells. I have seen an adept book for 39 though, which generally is useless to most people. By the time I reach 39 I'll be able to get the Adept III soldier book since I harvest a lot.

I think wizards and illusionists have it easier because they can simply focus on one or two spells to upgrade and they are very effective. We have three pets between levels 32-39. That's a lot of pets. That's a lot of gold that must be spend on each situation (Fire pet for group damage, Earth for solo tanking and Air somewhere inbetween.) Illusionists and Wizards don't have to focus on the solo/group dychotomy in order to do well.

So, yes, we have problems. I don't think we're broken though and I find the class playable and I find that I can contribute to groups very well. Is this class what I imagined it would be? No, not at all. Did I expect spellbooks for Conjurors to be redicuously rare? No. Did I expect, likewise, that finding the resources necessary to make level 30+ spells would be nearly impossible? Not quite.

Roland of the E · 12-13-2004, 03:12 PM

"I think wizards and illusionists have it easier because they can simply focus on one or two spells to upgrade and they are very effective. We have three pets between levels 32-39. That's a lot of pets. That's a lot of gold that must be spend on each situation (Fire pet for group damage, Earth for solo tanking and Air somewhere inbetween.) Illusionists and Wizards don't have to focus on the solo/group dychotomy in order to do well."

I think this is a very valid point that hasn't been brought up yet....by the time you actually have the money to get one spell up to adept1 you gain another spell and wonder if u should buy the apprentice 3 for new pet.

AGAIN I ONLY ASK THAT A DEV POST THAT THESE ISSUES ARE AT LEAST BEING LOOKED AT!

Message Edited by Roland of the Eld on 12-13-2004 02:13 AM

Message Edited by Roland of the Eld on 12-13-2004 02:14 AM

Message Edited by Roland of the Eld on 12-13-2004 02:16 AM

Sailormoon · 12-14-2004, 08:08 AM

Lv32-39 We get 4 new pets.Air, Fire, Earth and Water

blind_hamm · 12-14-2004, 11:02 AM

Sailormoontw wrote:
Lv32-39 We get 4 new pets.
Air, Fire, Earth and Water

We don't get a water pet. I think you mean the following spell:

38 - Aqeuous Hunters (Summons pack of Water beings to attack target)

This isn't a pet per se. The water beings are not controllable. I think this is just like the summon rat spell that necromancers have. It's basically just another flashy DoT.

Ebile · 12-14-2004, 11:33 AM

On top of this I can cast the following:1. Shattered Ground (1)2. Bludgenoning Earth (2-3 times)3. Spiked Rain (as much as I want).4. Flaming Agony (completely broken and not working)Oh, but wait! I also have a soldier that is attacking, albeit slowly for 50 + massive special damage + stun. And the soldier is not even our offensive pet. And to top it off, we are almost never out of power.I can't comment on the post 35+ play. You are certainly much higher level than me. I wish that our pets were more powerful. I think SOE wants to limit the power of our pets so we don't become a pure solo'ing class. I didn't exactly sign up to me the master of DoTs when I picked a Conjuror. I'd also like to see our stuns extended slightly.Message Edited by blind_hammer on 12-12-2004 04:14 AM I dont know about you, but at level 28 I am constantly the only person in the fight that, when the fight ends, is the lowest power person in the group. granted I can gain the power back quickly with vim and essence, but I am always the lowest power person in the group while the wizard standing next to me, even if he has to power dump to others, still has more power then I do.One thing your not taking into to account for our wonderful pet dot is everytime you cast essence on him during a fight, he isnt attacking the mob. thats lowering your dps output. Also, dont you find it interesting that our HO's require us to lead off with our DD's instead of our dots? Wouldnt you think that since our dots are our main stay that they are the ones that would get the lead off?I dunno, I sit here and I look at the damage output by every other class and I then I look on my server board and see the top 10 magical hits are ALL melee folks. Someone want to tell me what the heck thats all about? Seems to me that casters in general have some serious output issues and by far the conjuror is in the worse shape. The highest damage I have ever seen coming from one of my HO's soloing is 103 dmg. My highest magical hit is something like 254damage and that was against a grey mob that was 20 levels below me.I read your post and you seem to be happy with the class and thats great, but for those of us that think there are serious issues, how about letting us post them and see what we can do to get the things fixed that we think are wrong. I really think its funny that people just have to come into a thread and tell everyone they are just a bunch of whiners and there is nothing wrong with the class and life is grand and the plats rolling in.Personally I hate being a necro with elemental pets. oh wait, we still dont have those either. so we are necros with bugs. oh the joy. I honestly can not understand why they wanted to turn us into necros. It doesn't make sense. even before release they said that our pets were just like they were in eq1. they completely lied about that, I didnt become a conjuror to summon up freaking spiders and bugs. I certainly didnt sign up to be screwed over by the economy or the lack of spells not even in the freaking loot tables.What I expected was to be a conjuror. heck we can't even summon up food and water. I would have thought for sure we could have done that. Our water breathing stones are broken. sometimes you cast one and it has no charges on it, other times you cast one and you may get 2 or 3 uses out of it, each time when you use it, it tells you that it has been removed. It hssn't and this causes issues. There are TONS of little things and some huge things that are seriously wrong with our class. Again, glad you like it the way it is, but dont jump onto those of us that want to see it improved.

Rant- · 12-14-2004, 11:46 AM

Hey Redorious.. Is this the same old school mage from EQ1 karana? Perfect writeup regardless.. those are my same concerns with the class..

The pet dancing making the mob out of range.. a temp thing I have found works for looting, stand in the middle of the mob, look down, jump and click to loot.. No clue why, but it works most of the time for me.

most of our spells need to have the mana cost looked at or its bugged somehow taking more mana to cast than it says. Dust Blast needs to scale a bit higher.

Using the pet as a mana battery in battle is hosed as he trys to attack you.

Pet pathing in dungeons is very bad, they are also large and get in the way.. a pet shrink and / or a summon companion is needed.. I am getting tired of having to tell the group to wait while I cancel the pet and wait for it to repop and wait to recast it during a dungeon crawl.

Mass aka Hipno

Rant- · 12-14-2004, 11:47 AM

bah double post

Message Edited by Rant-eh on 12-13-2004 10:48 PM

Redorio · 12-14-2004, 01:13 PM

Rant-Eh,

Yup it's me, Redorious, Archmage, Karana, long time poster and twit on the Mage Tower SMILEY

I fel the class basicxlaly is pretty good, needs work, needs major bug fixes *ASAP*!

Was in Stormhold, ever time you click the drain cover to zone through to the library, or back, your pet gets stuck back inthe other part of the zone!

Vuroc · 12-14-2004, 04:34 PM

I totally agree with Ebilena, who decided to turn the magician class into a necro with DoTs is beyond me. Not only have they completely taken our nukes away, they gave us those awful looking insects which are awful looking let me repeat one more time!

Evraddon

kabba52 · 12-14-2004, 10:05 PM

<AGAIN I ONLY ASK THAT A DEV POST THAT THESE ISSUES ARE AT LEAST BEING LOOKED AT! >

Do you really think devs, or even a soe team member will read us ?.

I don't think so.

And i have to say that conjuror is something like ... useless, I'm sorry because i would love to like my job, but right now i dont.

If I'm still playing my conj, it's just because my guilde's buddies are cool, and they still pick me in their group. But I have major trouble to find a pickup group, just because I can't do good damage as a mage.

You know what ? If I was a tank or healer, leader of a group, I will invite anyone but conjuror, enchanters are a lot more usefull than us for the group, and wiz/warlock deals a lots more dps. Scouts gives cool group utilities as well, and are better dps.

Yeah, conjuror looks fun with pets and flashy DoTs, but that's it

kazaar · 12-14-2004, 11:29 PM

I actually enjoy playing a conjuror. I do hate the pet dance.However in a group without a chanter, when you get adds, I will get my pet on them and the group can concentrate on mobs while my pets keeps the other occupied. In bad case scenarios, My pet will get the mob while the others run away. This is really useful when you solo/gather for trade skills. Having my pet also helps tons when I do gathering. I have less to worry about when I walk around. I still have to worry, but I usually can get away if I get jumped by something I can't handle.22 Conjuror

StaticLex · 12-15-2004, 11:38 AM

I almost can't stand playing this class it's so broken and/or poorly designed.

1.) Pet pathing is horrid. I go to Stormhold and I have to destroy and re-summon my pet at least 4 times an hour because it gets sucked into a wall and won't come out. The pet dancing I don't mind actually, as long as it doesn't dance into a wall, taking the mob inside with it (which it does probably half the time).

2.) Pet buff spells. I can honestly say I have never seen a more moronic spell design in all of EQ1 or EQ2. 3 minute duration, I have to practically be riding the pet to be within range to cast, and the ridiculously long refresh time? You've got to be kidding me.

3.) Spell stacking. Forget about having two conjurors in one group.

4.) Single target damage? I keep getting all these nice new AE spells while all groups ever fight are single ^^ mobs. Guess I'll just keep hammering the pulls with this green /con Dust Blast I've been using for 15 levels...

5.) Pet taunt? Apparently this feature does not even exist.

I can probably think of more but too tired at the moment. :robotsurprised:

Gaylon · 12-15-2004, 09:08 PM

StaticLex wrote:

4.) Single target damage? I keep getting all these nice new AE spells while all groups ever fight are single ^^ mobs. Guess I'll just keep hammering the pulls with this green /con Dust Blast I've been using for 15 levels...

And if you actually get a group of mobs and have a enchanter no one wants you to cast AE spells for fear you'll break mez.

5.) Pet taunt? Apparently this feature does not even exist.

Yeah, I was really excited about getting provoc. adept. 1 and I still get agroo off my pet when I heal him sometimes.

I can probably think of more but too tired at the moment. :robotsurprised:

Here the things that drive me cravy.

1. The pet dance. Sometimes I have to hit "pet back off" three or four times before it stops.

2. It would be ok not being viewed as a group class, or not being able to solo group green mobs like I could when the game went live IF I could get loot I needed to drop off of solo mobs.

3. Most of the loot that does drop is not very caster or conjuror friendly. Most of the armor drops out there are for the heavy armor classes.

Redorio · 12-19-2004, 06:56 PM

Added point about why Agitation and similar pet buffs have such huge power drains.

Bauglir · 12-20-2004, 04:44 AM

All very good points.. sad actually...

12-10-2004, 05:23 PM	#1
Redorio Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 128	1) "Pet dancing" ok, when will this be fixed? It's pretty serious. It means you often can't loot mobs you kill (body is out of range even though it's at your feet), it can cause mobs to run miles away form you or your party. 2) DoTs do not stack, thus having 2 or more conjurors is almost pointless. 3) Rarity of spells, some conjuror adepts simple don't drop or are rare as a shaved dwarf. Tellurian Soldier...Dust Blast...where are they? Note Dust Blast is our ONLY DD nuke so should be as common as the Tellurian Recruit Adept if not more so...we'll have that spell all the way to lvl 50! 4) When you complete the Qeynos class quest, which causes two gnolls to spawn when you run around near Black Burrow..this KEEPS HAPPENING! It never stops! 5) The various pet siphon spells that take health from the pet to make power for the conjuror, cause the pet to react as if it's being ATTACKED byt he conjuror! It stops fighting and runs at the conjuror. 6) Why are we the only class to constantly go OOM in fights? Look at power use in any fight and you'lll see conjurors constantly burning through mana very heavily to achieve the same results as other classes. 7) Was in Stormhold, ever time you click the drain cover to zone through to the library, or back, your pet gets stuck back inthe other part of the zone! Pet buffs like Agitation cause serious power drain while in effect: WHY have a power drain at all?? Agitation also currenlty bugs a lot and becomes uncastable as if it's duration had run and recast time was in effect. Now, having said that, I find the class fun Problem is the bugs, not the game. Message Edited by Redorious on 12-19-2004 01:55 PM __________________

12-10-2004, 09:15 PM	#2
Ixiter Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 86	4) Just wait until you finish AQ6 and decide that the Ruins of Varsoon is a good place to exp.6) You should never be going OOM unless you are not essence shifting during the fight as well as after. Or you fight like 3 adds in a row.The rest has been said a thousand times. Don't expect it to get fixed all that soon. __________________ ______________________________________________ Ixiterra - Level 38 Conjuror - Mistmoore Citrous - Level 26 Paladin - Mistmoore

12-11-2004, 04:01 PM	#8
blind_hamm Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21	6) Why are we the only class to constantly go OOM in fights? Look at power use in any fight and you'lll see conjurors constantly burning through mana very heavily to achieve the same results as other classes. I never have issues with power in a group. Even solo, I can usually take on a orange creature with only half of my power pool. The secret is to not chain nuke Dust Blast; it is a highly inefficient spell that becomes meaningless later. One of the main assets of the Conjuror's pet is that it is a power battery -- get Essence Shift up to at least Adept I, use Instant Vim, and so on -- you'll get your power back much faster than anyone else in your group. __________________ ------------

12-11-2004, 08:25 PM	#10
Xeth Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 29	Ziminar wrote: Blind Hammer, if you arent being close to OOM after every fight then you must not be unleashing all of your DOTs. And if your Not unleashing all of your DOTs then you must not be doing hardly any damage at all. Completely agree. 32 Conjuror of Crushbone.

12-12-2004, 04:15 PM	#11
blind_hamm Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21	Ziminar wrote: Blind Hammer, if you arent being close to OOM after every fight then you must not be unleashing all of your DOTs. And if your Not unleashing all of your DOTs then you must not be doing hardly any damage at all. There are many ways to play a Conjuror. If you want to burn through all your power in order to provide sub-par damage for your group and, at the end of the fight, make the group sit around and wait while you get power back, go ahead. Conjurors provide a tremendous amount of utility to a group. Once I stopped thinking of a Conjuror as a class that generates massive damage per second, I became very happy with the class. We're not a pure damage class. If I were a group leader and I wanted someone that could simply do more damage, faster -- I'd pick a wizard. Or even a scout. Both generate more damage than we ever can. But if I wanted a fair to good damage class that can aid the group, I'd go with a Conjuror and/or a Illusionist. We're almost like the bards of the scout class. Sure, Rangers and Assassins can do more damage but dirges offer several abilities that makes groups more efficient. Using group DoTs on single ^^ creatures is a huge waste of power, with the exception of Shattered Ground. If you are casting Seism or Tremor on a single and you are 30+, there is a problem. If you are facing multiple group foes, then you can reduce white and yellow creatures to 80% health across the board by using a total of four spells. Want to throw in another Tremor? Sure, go ahead. I'm still at 55% power. And, to be honest, if your group cannot go cut through four white or yellow critters by the time it takes for Tremor to run out (twice) or Shattered Ground to reactivate, then you might want to look for another group. It is not the role of a Conjuror to outdamage the entire rest of the group. We have very effective AE spells and we have some very effective single spells that we can use. I consider my job as a Conjuror done if I can reduce non ^^ critters health down to 50-60% in total aggregate damage (in other words, in a group of four I have killed two). On ^^ creatures, it's more efficient for me to just chain Spiked Rain rather than casting grey AE DoTs (Seism) with the exception of Shattered Ground. And I consider my job as a good team player done when I don't have to make the group sit around while I get my power back. My normal groups usually move quickly. I actually posted my original message before I went shopping. Today I picked up Master I Essence Shift. With one cast, I can get back -- oh, I'd say 30% power. Instant Vim is probably 5-10% (only Apprentice II). So, that means that I can get back roughtly 40% of my power with two spells. I can cycle that in, what, 20 seconds if I am REALLY out of power. I am big proponent for people playing a class they want to play. If you want to spend all your power on AE DoTs in order to be at roughly the same level as a wizard, then you can certainly do so! But to say that I hardly do any damage ... I can prevent nearly 1500-2500 points of damage during a hard fight while doing considerable damage and secondary debuffing. And I have a hulking golem thing chasing me around, scaring people. To me, that's fun. Message Edited by blind_hammer on 12-12-2004 03:20 AM __________________ ------------

12-11-2004, 04:48 AM	#3
laedyana Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 74	actually I think the list up top is a good one and accurately represents most of the challenges I run into.

12-11-2004, 06:04 AM	#4
Zimin Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	Same for me. Good list. I'd like to add one... 7.) We are the least desirable DPS for a group. Hands down.

12-11-2004, 10:51 AM	#5
Xeth Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 29	Fix the Flaming Agony spell. We are doing less dps because of it doing only one tick of 30-40 dmg.Fix the Tremor spell that won't show the dot icon in the mantained spells.Fix the Spiked Rain spell so it shows the dot icon in the mantained spells.Fix all the spells we dont know of and are bugged LoL Message Edited by Xethar on 12-10-2004 09:54 PM

12-11-2004, 11:13 AM	#6
Roland of the E Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	Agreed, I wish a Dev would at least say ONE thing concerning the conj class. Not one of the spell fixes has been done for the Conj, not one.....

12-11-2004, 11:15 AM	#7
Roland of the E Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	Oh and I would like to add another: - When in dungeons pets get lost/stuck in walls/become invis -pets do not gain aggro for a group of mobs (ie at least one of two mobs will keep attacking caster) -pet does keep attacking group after it has killed one.....

12-11-2004, 07:34 PM	#9
Zimin Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	Blind Hammer, if you arent being close to OOM after every fight then you must not be unleashing all of your DOTs. And if your Not unleashing all of your DOTs then you must not be doing hardly any damage at all.

12-12-2004, 04:35 PM	#12
Lorin_Birkbla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	rofl sorry kelin but i had to reply to your post, i think you live in a dreamland please tell us waht the "tremendous amount of utility" is that conjurer bring to the group ... your only group buff apart from the normal mage power buffs is fire seed an that does next to no damage or do you consider our 1 stun that is usable on levle 35+ mobs "tremendous utility " ? hmm lets see other casters get stun too , wizard even get ae stun and they get evac they do more damage against single ++ mobs and have better aes .... sorry i dont want to talk conjurer down but they need some fixing in form of either more group utility or more dps and i doesnt help when people get used to beeing sub par to other class and settle with it Lorin 39 Conjurer Valor

12-12-2004, 05:05 PM	#13
blind_hamm Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21	Lorin_Birkblatt wrote: rofl sorry kelin but i had to reply to your post, i think you live in a dreamland please tell us waht the "tremendous amount of utility" is that conjurer bring to the group ... your only group buff apart from the normal mage power buffs is fire seed an that does next to no damage or do you consider our 1 stun that is usable on levle 35+ mobs "tremendous utility " ? hmm lets see other casters get stun too , wizard even get ae stun and they get evac they do more damage against single ++ mobs and have better aes .... sorry i dont want to talk conjurer down but they need some fixing in form of either more group utility or more dps and i doesnt help when people get used to beeing sub par to other class and settle with it Yes, let's look at the wizards crowd control: 25 - Boreal (Single target Mez: Costs power + Immobilizes the Wizard throughout) 27 - Blazing Intimidation (Heat DD + Stun) 33 - Tether - (Root, will break instantly is dmg received) 39 - Aurora (Mez, costs power and immobilizes wizard) Note that 1) Roots are generally not too helpful in group situations and 2) wizards get a horrible mez which disables them throughout the fight. That is not crowd control. That is not stunning. I can't comment on the 27 spell other than to say that while the wizard is casting this spell (which takes a while to cast), he is not casting -- our pet will keep on attacking. Look at Conjurors 16 - Petrify (Stun) 30 - Frozen by Time (Stun + Magic DD) 33 - Quicksand (Root, +brief movement speed reduction on expire) 44 - Heatwave (Stun, +Heat DD) These are stuns. That means that monsters cannot attack. They cannot cast. They take full damage. And furthermore Conjurors are not immobilized throughout by a mez that may or may not be broken. In long battles against a tough ^^ I can usually stun 3 or 4 times. Let's assume that the average stun is 5 seconds for a creature being hit. That's 20 seconds of a creature not hitting a tank with minimal power use. I have no idea how much damage certain monsters do but let's say for the sake of argument that they do 200 point of damage every 3 seconds. I have prevented nearly 1300 points of damage by stunning. Now let's throw in Volatile Refuge. I can't remember exactly, but I believe that it wards 400 points of damage at Master I (might be 300). Say I can cast that twice a round. I have now prevented roughly 2100 points of damage on our tank. On top of this I can cast the following: 1. Shattered Ground (1) 2. Bludgenoning Earth (2-3 times) 3. Spiked Rain (as much as I want). 4. Flaming Agony (completely broken and not working) Oh, but wait! I also have a soldier that is attacking, albeit slowly for 50 + massive special damage + stun. And the soldier is not even our offensive pet. And to top it off, we are almost never out of power. I can't comment on the post 35+ play. You are certainly much higher level than me. I wish that our pets were more powerful. I think SOE wants to limit the power of our pets so we don't become a pure solo'ing class. I didn't exactly sign up to me the master of DoTs when I picked a Conjuror. I'd also like to see our stuns extended slightly. Message Edited by blind_hammer on 12-12-2004 04:14 AM __________________ ------------

12-12-2004, 08:10 PM	#14
Sailormoon General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 32	Wizards get Evac, which is invaluable group utility. And AE roots would help if the Add is a group of mobs insteand of a single one. Wizards Power over Time proc is better than our summoned mod rod in my opinion. Maybe some of you might disagree. And I think the damage proc of Wizard maybe the same as our Fire Seed.

12-13-2004, 04:10 AM	#15
Lorin_Birkbla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	low level stuns dont work on higher mobs you get a message saying target is to high , i can only use 1 stun frozen bye time on mobs in my level range this lasts about 5 secs thats all i have as crowed control since the quicksand root is a 4 sec cast totally worseless dont get how you can stun a mob 4 times in a fight, stuns have 30 sec timer and blau - orange ++ mobs dont last longer then 30 secs in decent exp groups so its down to 1 stun and wizard got 1 too you named all the spells you cast a encounter thats fine but thats not "tremenous utility" thats dps and wizard spells are 25 - 50 % better then our damage wise including our pet dps

12-13-2004, 06:10 AM	#16
blind_hamm Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21	Lorin_Birkblatt wrote: low level stuns dont work on higher mobs you get a message saying target is to high , i can only use 1 stun frozen bye time on mobs in my level range this lasts about 5 secs thats all i have as crowed control since the quicksand root is a 4 sec cast totally worseless dont get how you can stun a mob 4 times in a fight, stuns have 30 sec timer and blau - orange ++ mobs dont last longer then 30 secs in decent exp groups so its down to 1 stun and wizard got 1 too you named all the spells you cast a encounter thats fine but thats not "tremenous utility" thats dps and wizard spells are 25 - 50 % better then our damage wise including our pet dps I said that I can't comment on the post 35 play since I'm not quite that level. I'm nearing 32. I have started to experience some critters that, like you said, are simply too powerful to use Petrify on. For some reason I always thought this was due to level difference since I have been fighting things 5 or 6 levels above me. I imagine that when I am forced to have only one stun, I'll be whining as well. I think Conjurors are more group oriented because they are more flexible than wizards. Wizards just nuke. That's about all that they can do. And while Evac is nice at 39, I believe that most scouts get the same skill before level 27 or so. So if you have a scout in your group, then the wizard's evac isn't necessarily unbalanced or overpowering. We also get group invis at level 35 which can be very helpful. Before Petrify stops working, we can stun twice. Unless I am clearly delusional, Petrify is on a 45 second timer at level 31. Thus it is possible to Petrify, wait a few seconds then stun using Frozen in Time. By the time that the stun from FiT runs out, we only have a few seconds to wait for Petrify again. I have also managed to get off two Frozen in Times during a battle -- usually against orange or red ^^ group/raid critters that have a lot of hit points. Anyways, Petrify is the first spell that I cast when battle begins so the timing isn't too bad. And then there is Refuge. I can throw this on a tank type and help mitigate the alpha strike of intitial contact. Or I can use it when templars are slowly casting heal. It's fast and it wards either 300/400 points of damage. I have saved several tanks' lives because I have been able to ward them before the clerics can heal them. Our pet also provides damage mitigation on adds and consistent damage. It is possible for the Adept III Soldier (and Veteran I assume) to handle things for some time. I believe the utility of the pet is on par with the additional damage that a wizard does. I'm not saying the Conjuror class is great or perfect. I am sure improvements can be made. Am I happy with the class right now? Well, yes and no. I think many more Conjurors (and Necromancers) would be happy if any of our pet books actually dropped. I find it suspicious that Adept I Soldier has not been found on any server (I believe the Necro equivalent at 24 is about the same) and I haven't seen any books for the 32 or 34 spells. I have seen an adept book for 39 though, which generally is useless to most people. By the time I reach 39 I'll be able to get the Adept III soldier book since I harvest a lot. I think wizards and illusionists have it easier because they can simply focus on one or two spells to upgrade and they are very effective. We have three pets between levels 32-39. That's a lot of pets. That's a lot of gold that must be spend on each situation (Fire pet for group damage, Earth for solo tanking and Air somewhere inbetween.) Illusionists and Wizards don't have to focus on the solo/group dychotomy in order to do well. So, yes, we have problems. I don't think we're broken though and I find the class playable and I find that I can contribute to groups very well. Is this class what I imagined it would be? No, not at all. Did I expect spellbooks for Conjurors to be redicuously rare? No. Did I expect, likewise, that finding the resources necessary to make level 30+ spells would be nearly impossible? Not quite. __________________ ------------

12-13-2004, 03:12 PM	#17
Roland of the E Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	"I think wizards and illusionists have it easier because they can simply focus on one or two spells to upgrade and they are very effective. We have three pets between levels 32-39. That's a lot of pets. That's a lot of gold that must be spend on each situation (Fire pet for group damage, Earth for solo tanking and Air somewhere inbetween.) Illusionists and Wizards don't have to focus on the solo/group dychotomy in order to do well." I think this is a very valid point that hasn't been brought up yet....by the time you actually have the money to get one spell up to adept1 you gain another spell and wonder if u should buy the apprentice 3 for new pet. AGAIN I ONLY ASK THAT A DEV POST THAT THESE ISSUES ARE AT LEAST BEING LOOKED AT! Message Edited by Roland of the Eld on 12-13-2004 02:13 AM Message Edited by Roland of the Eld on 12-13-2004 02:14 AM Message Edited by Roland of the Eld on 12-13-2004 02:16 AM

12-14-2004, 08:08 AM	#18
Sailormoon General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 32	Lv32-39 We get 4 new pets.Air, Fire, Earth and Water

12-14-2004, 11:02 AM	#19
blind_hamm Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 21	Sailormoontw wrote: Lv32-39 We get 4 new pets. Air, Fire, Earth and Water We don't get a water pet. I think you mean the following spell: 38 - Aqeuous Hunters (Summons pack of Water beings to attack target) This isn't a pet per se. The water beings are not controllable. I think this is just like the summon rat spell that necromancers have. It's basically just another flashy DoT. __________________ ------------

12-14-2004, 11:33 AM	#20
Ebile Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 58	On top of this I can cast the following:1. Shattered Ground (1)2. Bludgenoning Earth (2-3 times)3. Spiked Rain (as much as I want).4. Flaming Agony (completely broken and not working)Oh, but wait! I also have a soldier that is attacking, albeit slowly for 50 + massive special damage + stun. And the soldier is not even our offensive pet. And to top it off, we are almost never out of power.I can't comment on the post 35+ play. You are certainly much higher level than me. I wish that our pets were more powerful. I think SOE wants to limit the power of our pets so we don't become a pure solo'ing class. I didn't exactly sign up to me the master of DoTs when I picked a Conjuror. I'd also like to see our stuns extended slightly.Message Edited by blind_hammer on 12-12-2004 04:14 AM I dont know about you, but at level 28 I am constantly the only person in the fight that, when the fight ends, is the lowest power person in the group. granted I can gain the power back quickly with vim and essence, but I am always the lowest power person in the group while the wizard standing next to me, even if he has to power dump to others, still has more power then I do.One thing your not taking into to account for our wonderful pet dot is everytime you cast essence on him during a fight, he isnt attacking the mob. thats lowering your dps output. Also, dont you find it interesting that our HO's require us to lead off with our DD's instead of our dots? Wouldnt you think that since our dots are our main stay that they are the ones that would get the lead off?I dunno, I sit here and I look at the damage output by every other class and I then I look on my server board and see the top 10 magical hits are ALL melee folks. Someone want to tell me what the heck thats all about? Seems to me that casters in general have some serious output issues and by far the conjuror is in the worse shape. The highest damage I have ever seen coming from one of my HO's soloing is 103 dmg. My highest magical hit is something like 254damage and that was against a grey mob that was 20 levels below me.I read your post and you seem to be happy with the class and thats great, but for those of us that think there are serious issues, how about letting us post them and see what we can do to get the things fixed that we think are wrong. I really think its funny that people just have to come into a thread and tell everyone they are just a bunch of whiners and there is nothing wrong with the class and life is grand and the plats rolling in.Personally I hate being a necro with elemental pets. oh wait, we still dont have those either. so we are necros with bugs. oh the joy. I honestly can not understand why they wanted to turn us into necros. It doesn't make sense. even before release they said that our pets were just like they were in eq1. they completely lied about that, I didnt become a conjuror to summon up freaking spiders and bugs. I certainly didnt sign up to be screwed over by the economy or the lack of spells not even in the freaking loot tables.What I expected was to be a conjuror. heck we can't even summon up food and water. I would have thought for sure we could have done that. Our water breathing stones are broken. sometimes you cast one and it has no charges on it, other times you cast one and you may get 2 or 3 uses out of it, each time when you use it, it tells you that it has been removed. It hssn't and this causes issues. There are TONS of little things and some huge things that are seriously wrong with our class. Again, glad you like it the way it is, but dont jump onto those of us that want to see it improved.

12-14-2004, 11:46 AM	#21
Rant- Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	Hey Redorious.. Is this the same old school mage from EQ1 karana? Perfect writeup regardless.. those are my same concerns with the class.. The pet dancing making the mob out of range.. a temp thing I have found works for looting, stand in the middle of the mob, look down, jump and click to loot.. No clue why, but it works most of the time for me. most of our spells need to have the mana cost looked at or its bugged somehow taking more mana to cast than it says. Dust Blast needs to scale a bit higher. Using the pet as a mana battery in battle is hosed as he trys to attack you. Pet pathing in dungeons is very bad, they are also large and get in the way.. a pet shrink and / or a summon companion is needed.. I am getting tired of having to tell the group to wait while I cancel the pet and wait for it to repop and wait to recast it during a dungeon crawl. Mass aka Hipno

12-14-2004, 11:47 AM	#22
Rant- Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	bah double post Message Edited by Rant-eh on 12-13-2004 10:48 PM

12-14-2004, 01:13 PM	#23
Redorio Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 128	Rant-Eh, Yup it's me, Redorious, Archmage, Karana, long time poster and twit on the Mage Tower I fel the class basicxlaly is pretty good, needs work, needs major bug fixes ASAP! Was in Stormhold, ever time you click the drain cover to zone through to the library, or back, your pet gets stuck back inthe other part of the zone! __________________

12-14-2004, 04:34 PM	#24
Vuroc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2	I totally agree with Ebilena, who decided to turn the magician class into a necro with DoTs is beyond me. Not only have they completely taken our nukes away, they gave us those awful looking insects which are awful looking let me repeat one more time! Evraddon

12-14-2004, 10:05 PM	#25
kabba52 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	<AGAIN I ONLY ASK THAT A DEV POST THAT THESE ISSUES ARE AT LEAST BEING LOOKED AT! > Do you really think devs, or even a soe team member will read us ?. I don't think so. And i have to say that conjuror is something like ... useless, I'm sorry because i would love to like my job, but right now i dont. If I'm still playing my conj, it's just because my guilde's buddies are cool, and they still pick me in their group. But I have major trouble to find a pickup group, just because I can't do good damage as a mage. You know what ? If I was a tank or healer, leader of a group, I will invite anyone but conjuror, enchanters are a lot more usefull than us for the group, and wiz/warlock deals a lots more dps. Scouts gives cool group utilities as well, and are better dps. Yeah, conjuror looks fun with pets and flashy DoTs, but that's it

12-14-2004, 11:29 PM	#26
kazaar Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	I actually enjoy playing a conjuror. I do hate the pet dance.However in a group without a chanter, when you get adds, I will get my pet on them and the group can concentrate on mobs while my pets keeps the other occupied. In bad case scenarios, My pet will get the mob while the others run away. This is really useful when you solo/gather for trade skills. Having my pet also helps tons when I do gathering. I have less to worry about when I walk around. I still have to worry, but I usually can get away if I get jumped by something I can't handle.22 Conjuror

12-15-2004, 11:38 AM	#27
StaticLex Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,230	I almost can't stand playing this class it's so broken and/or poorly designed. 1.) Pet pathing is horrid. I go to Stormhold and I have to destroy and re-summon my pet at least 4 times an hour because it gets sucked into a wall and won't come out. The pet dancing I don't mind actually, as long as it doesn't dance into a wall, taking the mob inside with it (which it does probably half the time). 2.) Pet buff spells. I can honestly say I have never seen a more moronic spell design in all of EQ1 or EQ2. 3 minute duration, I have to practically be riding the pet to be within range to cast, and the ridiculously long refresh time? You've got to be kidding me. 3.) Spell stacking. Forget about having two conjurors in one group. 4.) Single target damage? I keep getting all these nice new AE spells while all groups ever fight are single ^^ mobs. Guess I'll just keep hammering the pulls with this green /con Dust Blast I've been using for 15 levels... 5.) Pet taunt? Apparently this feature does not even exist. I can probably think of more but too tired at the moment. :robotsurprised: __________________ When you've played this game for ten years and gone to bat seven-thousand times and gotten two-thousand hits do you know what that really means? It means you've gone zero for five-thousand. --- Reggie Jackson

12-15-2004, 09:08 PM	#28
Gaylon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 66	StaticLex wrote: 4.) Single target damage? I keep getting all these nice new AE spells while all groups ever fight are single ^^ mobs. Guess I'll just keep hammering the pulls with this green /con Dust Blast I've been using for 15 levels... And if you actually get a group of mobs and have a enchanter no one wants you to cast AE spells for fear you'll break mez. 5.) Pet taunt? Apparently this feature does not even exist. Yeah, I was really excited about getting provoc. adept. 1 and I still get agroo off my pet when I heal him sometimes. I can probably think of more but too tired at the moment. :robotsurprised: Here the things that drive me cravy. 1. The pet dance. Sometimes I have to hit "pet back off" three or four times before it stops. 2. It would be ok not being viewed as a group class, or not being able to solo group green mobs like I could when the game went live IF I could get loot I needed to drop off of solo mobs. 3. Most of the loot that does drop is not very caster or conjuror friendly. Most of the armor drops out there are for the heavy armor classes.

12-19-2004, 06:56 PM	#29
Redorio Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 128	Added point about why Agitation and similar pet buffs have such huge power drains. __________________

12-20-2004, 04:44 AM	#30
Bauglir Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 136	All very good points.. sad actually...