Major changes to charm on Test

Fizwi · 03-12-2006, 04:26 AM

As of LU21, all charms:

provide visual warning when the charm breaks (currently a .5 sec flash of sonicvision)
mez the ex-charmee for 3 seconds upon break

Pretty neat, nice to see some coercer love...

Dorfls · 03-12-2006, 05:45 AM

I know we shouldn't look a gift-horse in the mouth and all that and nice, I suppose, but hardly the first thing I would have looked to fix.I love the risk / reward balance of the random charm break, but OK - I suppose this could be seen as a significant way to make our class easier to play.

Argan · 03-12-2006, 08:41 AM

Only change i want is for them to make possession an in-combat ability instead of out of combat.

I · 03-12-2006, 01:02 PM

Well Im only a 22 Coercer, and completely new to EQ2. Currently the only time I ever charm is when im fighting groups of 2 or more, I charm one, mez one and go from there. Doubt Ill use the charm anymore with these changes, what Id really like to see is for the charm to be recurring, so it recast itself on the mob every 30 seconds. Much the same as DAoC did with Minstrel/Mentalist charm, would make the charm a worthwhile to use fulltime~

Thro · 03-12-2006, 08:18 PM

I'm of the strong opinion that coercers who do not use charm as much as possible -- particularly in groups -- are limiting the class' potential. Charm singlehandedly turns us into a DPS class instantly (something that is very attractive in a game where CC is only very marginally required).

The difficulty, of course, is that the way charm breaks in its current form can result in a feeling of too much risk for reward in group settings. Groups aren't as likely to notice the extra dps as they are the group wipe that results because your heroic charmed mob just freed itself at the worse possible moment. The result is that most coercers refrain from using charm on heroic mobs, particularly in group settings. But while in groups we often find ourselves in zones that simply do not have any wondering solo mobs to make use of.

These changes will help solve this problem in my opinion. By giving us a visual warning, as well as a short duration mez by which we can recover, it becomes much easier for a coercer to say to the group "do not worry, I will take full responsibility for my pet, never attack it, I will recharm it, it is not a problem." By making it easier to recover from charm breaks, it makes it easier and more attractive to use charm in group settings, and makes charming heroics substantially less of a threat. This is a good change, very pro coercer. (I suspect the attention charm is getting now is due to the fact that charm spells have been given out to everyone, so it is no longer strictly a coercer issue ("eh . . . no one plays them anyway, fixes can wait&quot SMILEY , but that is irrelevant. These are good changes.)

Now if only we could get them to lower the concentration costs so that charm != removing dps buffs.

Ricon · 03-12-2006, 09:03 PM

The change is still better than nothing and will help.Possession allowing in-combat targeting would be great too, perhaps we will oneday get both SMILEY

Dr_Cyr · 03-13-2006, 02:28 AM

This change to charm is long overdue.The 3s stun makes it usable without completely eliminating the risk factor.The great thing is that now groups and riads will object a lot less to us using charmed mobs to contribute to DPS.Put this together with the changes to our Entry AA:now its Chanter pays 10% HIS Max health and 10% HIS Max power, then 30 seconds later a both the Chanter AND a group/raid-mate gets 10% of OUR Max power, 1 minute recast.You might get the feeling somone is finally looking at chanters and raids!Re: Above post -- Level 65 spell allowing us to posess ONLY our pet for 24-30 sec would be even better. As it stands now that 65 spell is going to go unused like the original 40 Second Charm - its good only for running mobs off islands in KoS.But, if they do only one more set of things, I'd hope it would be this:Drop the conc slots to 2, let us single-target-buff cross-raid! Need to do both - they complement each other: Opening one more conc slot lets us use one of our single target buffs cross-raid on the Main Tank and still maintain a charmed pet.Finally - an active role on a raid. No more autofollowing and sleeping thru them.

Message Edited by Dr_Cyrus on 03-12-200609:34 PM

zedp · 03-13-2006, 03:24 AM

in the update notes they only mention these changes affecting hypnosis, not the rest of the charm lines...anyone on test want to comment?Z

Dorfls · 03-13-2006, 04:12 AM

zedpol wrote:in the update notes they only mention these changes affecting hypnosis, not the rest of the charm lines...anyone on test want to comment?Z

Test notes sayCoercer changes:- Charm spells now give a visual warning when charm breaks, and 3 seconds of mesmerization on the target after the charm has broken.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=113

lordofdrago · 03-13-2006, 09:13 AM

This is a GREAT change. In the heat of battle it's often hard to notice when charm breaks. It has to one of the best changes that I could think of. Far better than changes to possession or Hypnosis. This change is good news for every coercer, the other skills would only affects a very small number.

Message Edited by lordofdragons on 03-12-200611:16 PM

Eriol · 03-13-2006, 10:55 PM

Ya, a good change for sure. Wish it was more (**cough**1 conc slot for charm please!**cough**), but this is definitely in the "good" category.

Tanatus · 03-13-2006, 11:16 PM

This is sucks SMILEY there the hell fun factors goes???? - It was a trill and fun charm mob that can nuke you dead in 2-3 hit and be on your toe all the time was a factor that was separating good coercer from rest of the crowd ....

Personally I prefer charm brake in a way it was before and only change I really love to see is preservation toughness of mob upon charming

Ulrick85 · 03-14-2006, 01:11 AM

ok now the change to the aa is good news! the pet charm is nice but not quite as exciting.

and yes I agree that possesion needs changes... either to allow us to use while in encounter, or give it a longer duration

Dr_Cyr · 03-14-2006, 01:49 AM

"This sucks?"ROFLMAO!There's no pleasing some folks.At least the visual indicator and the 3s mez gives OTHERS less worry which will allow us to use pets on raids and in groups.That in itself is worth having a nerfed to no-arrow pet.Now if they can drop the conc slot useage to 2 from 3, so we can use one of our buffs across raid... that would be great!Makes us "desired but not required" which is what Sony is aming for. And it would at least be something to stay awake for on raids, instead of throwing up the buffs and regen and going on autofollow.

Lleinen · 03-14-2006, 12:29 PM

Great addition!

Bring more please! hehe

Darkmage6 · 03-14-2006, 10:02 PM

That nice and all but coercers are still waaay at the bottom of the dps chart, they didn't nerf conj our pets are less than 50% as powerful and we have very low damage ie does not scale with lvl.Thats why i decided to shelf my coercer just being a mana battery is not good and my troub does way more damage and helps the party more.Be nice if they un-nerfed our charmed pets a bit we are nowhere near the conj in power.I have checked on my server coercer is the less played class i bet its the same on every server they might even become extinct.

Hoaboseim · 03-20-2006, 11:19 PM

At least the visual indicator and the 3s mez gives OTHERS less worry which will allow us to use pets on raids and in groups.That in itself is worth having a nerfed to no-arrow pet.

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No it doesn't.

03-12-2006, 04:26 AM	#1
Fizwi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 275	As of LU21, all charms: provide visual warning when the charm breaks (currently a .5 sec flash of sonicvision) mez the ex-charmee for 3 seconds upon break Pretty neat, nice to see some coercer love... __________________

03-12-2006, 05:45 AM	#2
Dorfls Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30	I know we shouldn't look a gift-horse in the mouth and all that and nice, I suppose, but hardly the first thing I would have looked to fix.I love the risk / reward balance of the random charm break, but OK - I suppose this could be seen as a significant way to make our class easier to play. __________________

03-12-2006, 08:41 AM	#3
Argan Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	Only change i want is for them to make possession an in-combat ability instead of out of combat. __________________

03-12-2006, 08:18 PM	#5
Thro Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	I'm of the strong opinion that coercers who do not use charm as much as possible -- particularly in groups -- are limiting the class' potential. Charm singlehandedly turns us into a DPS class instantly (something that is very attractive in a game where CC is only very marginally required). The difficulty, of course, is that the way charm breaks in its current form can result in a feeling of too much risk for reward in group settings. Groups aren't as likely to notice the extra dps as they are the group wipe that results because your heroic charmed mob just freed itself at the worse possible moment. The result is that most coercers refrain from using charm on heroic mobs, particularly in group settings. But while in groups we often find ourselves in zones that simply do not have any wondering solo mobs to make use of. These changes will help solve this problem in my opinion. By giving us a visual warning, as well as a short duration mez by which we can recover, it becomes much easier for a coercer to say to the group "do not worry, I will take full responsibility for my pet, never attack it, I will recharm it, it is not a problem." By making it easier to recover from charm breaks, it makes it easier and more attractive to use charm in group settings, and makes charming heroics substantially less of a threat. This is a good change, very pro coercer. (I suspect the attention charm is getting now is due to the fact that charm spells have been given out to everyone, so it is no longer strictly a coercer issue ("eh . . . no one plays them anyway, fixes can wait&quot, but that is irrelevant. These are good changes.) Now if only we could get them to lower the concentration costs so that charm != removing dps buffs.

03-12-2006, 09:03 PM	#6
Ricon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	The change is still better than nothing and will help.Possession allowing in-combat targeting would be great too, perhaps we will oneday get both __________________ Aerth, Najena Server (from Nektulos) Explicit Coercer.

03-12-2006, 01:02 PM	#4
I Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 8	Well Im only a 22 Coercer, and completely new to EQ2. Currently the only time I ever charm is when im fighting groups of 2 or more, I charm one, mez one and go from there. Doubt Ill use the charm anymore with these changes, what Id really like to see is for the charm to be recurring, so it recast itself on the mob every 30 seconds. Much the same as DAoC did with Minstrel/Mentalist charm, would make the charm a worthwhile to use fulltime~

03-13-2006, 02:28 AM	#7
Dr_Cyr Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 65	This change to charm is long overdue.The 3s stun makes it usable without completely eliminating the risk factor.The great thing is that now groups and riads will object a lot less to us using charmed mobs to contribute to DPS.Put this together with the changes to our Entry AA:now its Chanter pays 10% HIS Max health and 10% HIS Max power, then 30 seconds later a both the Chanter AND a group/raid-mate gets 10% of OUR Max power, 1 minute recast.You might get the feeling somone is finally looking at chanters and raids!Re: Above post -- Level 65 spell allowing us to posess ONLY our pet for 24-30 sec would be even better. As it stands now that 65 spell is going to go unused like the original 40 Second Charm - its good only for running mobs off islands in KoS.But, if they do only one more set of things, I'd hope it would be this:Drop the conc slots to 2, let us single-target-buff cross-raid! Need to do both - they complement each other: Opening one more conc slot lets us use one of our single target buffs cross-raid on the Main Tank and still maintain a charmed pet.Finally - an active role on a raid. No more autofollowing and sleeping thru them. Message Edited by Dr_Cyrus on 03-12-200609:34 PM

03-13-2006, 03:24 AM	#8
zedp Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7	in the update notes they only mention these changes affecting hypnosis, not the rest of the charm lines...anyone on test want to comment?Z

03-13-2006, 04:12 AM	#9
Dorfls Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30	zedpol wrote:in the update notes they only mention these changes affecting hypnosis, not the rest of the charm lines...anyone on test want to comment?Z Test notes sayCoercer changes:- Charm spells now give a visual warning when charm breaks, and 3 seconds of mesmerization on the target after the charm has broken.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=113 __________________

03-13-2006, 09:13 AM	#10
lordofdrago Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 66	This is a GREAT change. In the heat of battle it's often hard to notice when charm breaks. It has to one of the best changes that I could think of. Far better than changes to possession or Hypnosis. This change is good news for every coercer, the other skills would only affects a very small number. Message Edited by lordofdragons on 03-12-200611:16 PM __________________ Dyrr, 61 Dark Elf Coercer - Oasis Balance BlackRain, 60 Half-Elf Bruiser / 27 Tailor - Oasis

03-13-2006, 10:55 PM	#11
Eriol Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,125	Ya, a good change for sure. Wish it was more (cough1 conc slot for charm please!cough), but this is definitely in the "good" category. __________________ Eriol Ancalagon A Summoner's Fall into Darkness

03-13-2006, 11:16 PM	#12
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	This is sucks there the hell fun factors goes???? - It was a trill and fun charm mob that can nuke you dead in 2-3 hit and be on your toe all the time was a factor that was separating good coercer from rest of the crowd .... Personally I prefer charm brake in a way it was before and only change I really love to see is preservation toughness of mob upon charming

03-14-2006, 01:11 AM	#13
Ulrick85 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 103	ok now the change to the aa is good news! the pet charm is nice but not quite as exciting. and yes I agree that possesion needs changes... either to allow us to use while in encounter, or give it a longer duration __________________ ~Neriya 70 froglok coercer Oasis ~Arycel - 64 Warden

03-14-2006, 01:49 AM	#14
Dr_Cyr Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 65	"This sucks?"ROFLMAO!There's no pleasing some folks.At least the visual indicator and the 3s mez gives OTHERS less worry which will allow us to use pets on raids and in groups.That in itself is worth having a nerfed to no-arrow pet.Now if they can drop the conc slot useage to 2 from 3, so we can use one of our buffs across raid... that would be great!Makes us "desired but not required" which is what Sony is aming for. And it would at least be something to stay awake for on raids, instead of throwing up the buffs and regen and going on autofollow.

03-14-2006, 12:29 PM	#15
Lleinen Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 368	Great addition! Bring more please! hehe

03-14-2006, 10:02 PM	#16
Darkmage6 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 50	That nice and all but coercers are still waaay at the bottom of the dps chart, they didn't nerf conj our pets are less than 50% as powerful and we have very low damage ie does not scale with lvl.Thats why i decided to shelf my coercer just being a mana battery is not good and my troub does way more damage and helps the party more.Be nice if they un-nerfed our charmed pets a bit we are nowhere near the conj in power.I have checked on my server coercer is the less played class i bet its the same on every server they might even become extinct.

03-20-2006, 11:19 PM	#17
Hoaboseim Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13	At least the visual indicator and the 3s mez gives OTHERS less worry which will allow us to use pets on raids and in groups.That in itself is worth having a nerfed to no-arrow pet. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No it doesn't.