30 Coercer looking for some quick tips/pointers~!

[Kilferf 'U]

Hey all, i just resubbed the other day after taking a break for about 6 months. I have alot of new spells upon logging in, and the ones i sorta remember are working differently. Basically what i'm looking for is a quick run down of how you might engage another level creature of the same con (and higher) if anyone would be so kind. The last few days i've only played a few hours, mostly solo and one time with a new friend i met. I've been messing around with Coerce, which is an interesting spell i wasn't expecting to have when i logged back in (i didn't used to have it).

 

On both of my toons (lvl 46 wiz) i did very well when i used to play, i knew my spells like the back of my hand and i knew how to implement them like not many others did. So feel free to leave a brief description of why you might do things a certain way (due to things i won't find out a week or two from now, for example lol) if you feel it might benefit me. I'm a detail oriented person, but i'll take what i can get.

 

In the meantime i'll continue pouring over the posts in this forum and try to better familiarize myself with what is what.

 

Thanks in advance for your time should you choose to help a brutha out!

 

/bow

[CronusFateweav]

I just recently started playing again after the expansion and subsequent patches as wel, but I've got a few weeks head start on you, so maybe I can help out a bit. Your new best friend is your Forced Hesitation (or level 30 equivalent) root spell. It's a short cast root that lasts (my version, I had it at 37 when I started again, not sure what level you get it) 24 seconds. The first half of it, the target is mezzed, but also rooted in case mez breaks. The second half, just mezzed. This root cannot be broken by damage dealt to the target. Instead, the root has a chance to break based on period resistance of the mob. What this amounts to is that 99.9% of mobs your level or lower will *never* break out of it early. I'm sure, as a person who sounds quite familiar with the coercers' history, you can imagine the implications of this spell. Your Breeze+ spells have been changed to a maintained group spell, yay for that, no more having to cast Breeze every 15 minutes on everyone. It seems to me that the spell may have been nerfed to a small extent, but I don't remember the exact regeneration before, so I can't say for sure. It's still enough to be able to regen power in combat with a target mezzed over time if you're patient. Or four targets, if they're not resistant and you're using your new version of AE mez: The revamped "Awe" AE mez line is a spell I now use almost exclusively over the single mezzes. It still requires a thoughtstone, but you generate a lot of those now (more on this later). This mez now lasts 30+ seconds, refreshes in 10, and has a maximum of four targets. It costs roughly 1.5x your base single mez power cost. It comes with the added risk that if a target resists a reapply of the spell, it breaks the old copy of the mez, so you'll want to be ready on root or mesmerize as you use this. Generally, however, resists aren't a big problem with it. If you have an encounter of 5+ mobs, you can choose which ones the AE mez will land on, after a fashion, by applying single mezzes to the ones you don't want. Single mez blocks ae effects from hitting the target, including ae mez. As such, Awe will not overwrite single mez, but single mez will overwrite Awe. If a target has multiple mez effects on it, (root inclusive), all of them will have to fade before the target can awake, unlike it was back in the way-before. Your DoT spells for solo dps while the target is rooted are more or less intact. You more or less have only two options now, Melancholy and Anguish (or level-appropriate versions). Both are worth keeping applied at all times since Melancholy also has a tash-type (EQ1 reference) mental/magic/divine resistance debuff attached, and Anguish taps enough power to *completely renew its own power cost over the duration*. The next big thing is the change to the Despotic Mind line and Sibyllant line. Despotic Mind is no longer a large DD, it's now an impairment that makes the mob take damage any time it uses power. Manaburn type effect. Sibyllant works in a similiar fashion to its previous incarnation, except the effect is no longer ae, and it can apply more than once. Drop Sibyllant on the mob, and for 30 seconds, up to 5 procs, the mob has a chance to take a large amount of reactive damage any time it deals melee damage (50% chance). Later on you'll also get the Spell Lash line, which works like Sibyllant, but with spells, and the effect occurs on every spell, not 50% of them. When fighting casters after you get that spell, Spell Lash + Despotic/Tyrannical Mind will just make them suicide themselves. All three of these spells grant thoughtstones if they're in effect when the mob dies. The catch is that, for most melee-based targets, you really don't want to be tanking them as a coercer, so the DPS potential of Sibyllant and Despotic Mind drop to zero. This is where charm can come in handy if you're soloing. Charm something weak, and use it to force the mob you're killing to proc reactive damage on itself. When it dies, if your pet is low, break the charm and kill the pet. Charm has several annoying problems, though. First, it tends to break far, far too often for its intended maximum duration. Counter here: always keep your target rooted, so when charm breaks you must deal with only one incoming mob instead of two. If you charm a target with any arrows (side note: ^^^ is now the equivalent of the old ^^ con in a heroic group, and appropriate scaling on down from that), the charm will turn the mob into a no arrow version of itself. Thus you're getting 0 extra reward for the higher risk associated with charming a more difficult target. When the charm breaks, the damage dealt to the mob will scale back up to its maximum health, so dismiss your dreams of exploiting charm to get ^^^ mobs to low health then breaking charm for an easy clean-up kill. You can, however, charm a mob and let it die while charmed, as long as (usually) its target is rooted, and you're standing back, the mob will *despawn* when it dies while charmed. This is a bug, it yields no experience, and it will lock that mob on your engaged targets list and disallow you from engaging more than Max-1 number of targets until you relog. You won't be in combat though. Last thing, you can charm a single mob to take yourself out of combat and get decent regen for a time, if that's the only thing you're engaged on. The mob will regen faster than you will, however, so be warned there. Still situationally useful. All that said, I almost never use charm. I generally don't solo mobs for experience, though, I duo with a fury for that (incidentally, if you find a friendly and decent fury, consider the possibilities of their Master II level Starburst AE damage spell combined with your Awe line versus heroic groups of 4 no arrows), so charm may be your bag if that's how you plan to level, it's a matter of preference and situation. Mostly, when I solo, I'm soloing something for loot or fun. Patience is the name of the game, but there's little that you can't solo. For example, last night, I cleared every named in Nektropos Castle, Maltus Everling and guard included, by myself at level 42. Melee ^^^ mobs aren't much challenge, though I recommend an imbued wand to put you over the edge in mana efficiency for the long fights. Also, an int hex doll is nice. Root, dots, wand, patience. Caster ^^^ mobs are much more challenging. While it's tempting to throw on Spell Lash and Despotic Mind and hope, it won't work. They might take 3-4% damage per spell they cast, but you'll take 10-20%, and it won't end pretty. With caster you need to drain their power, and the best way to do this is your new version of your (formerly 14 second duration) stun spell. This spell has a huge power drain, and you can use it, combined with mez, to slowly drain away a mob's power. Just make sure you mez right as it fades or the power drain effect will cancel your mez and you'll get cooked. Once it's out of power: root, dot, and wand away. If you're dealing with a mob that can cast extremely short cast time or instant spells, this method will fail as you'll get burned in the brief second in between your stun and mez. There are ways around this, at your level you'll need to develop your own, since your stun is 7 seconds and the one I'm using now is 9. But as an example, if you queue all these spells in a row, with no pauses, you can lock the mob perfectly with no movement. Eerie Focus (long stun), Muddled Thought, Muddled Thought (yes, twice, 4 second recast here), Bewilder (shorter stun), Mez. With the 9 second stun, this produces a power drain, a little damage, and no risk, save if you get resisted. The last spell I didn't mention is your new Damaged/Scarred Psyche line. Another debuff along the lines of the hex dolls, it's worth using if you're grouped with any other caster, and generally also worth using if you're soloing anything higher than a ^^. I haven't crunched the numbers so I can't swear that it's more efficient than using that power for an extra nuke or two when soloing, but I believe it is. That's about all I can come up with, hope it helps Feel free to ask if you have any questions!

[Kilferf 'U]

This is exactly what i was looking for :smileyvery-happy:

 

There is much in there that i don't understand, mostly with the way despotic and syb are going to work, i didn't understand their descriptions when i examined them ingame. This will help me a great deal when i go back in the game tonight and can make more sense of what they're actually doing. I'm going to go back and reread several times what you've so kindly taken the time to write, i really appreciate it.

 

And that's one hell of a first post man, thank you. :smileyvery-happy:

 

I'm sure i'll have questions later, but this is great for tonight hehe!

 

/bow

Message Edited by Kilferf 'Uhn on 10-07-2005 01:33 PM

[CronusFateweav]

Always happy to help out a person who types in complete sentences!

[AdiX__Styxx__]

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Kilferf 'Uhn wrote:

This is exactly what i was looking for :smileyvery-happy:

 

There is much in there that i don't understand, mostly with the way despotic and syb are going to work, i didn't understand their descriptions when i examined them ingame. This will help me a great deal when i go back in the game tonight and can make more sense of what they're actually doing. I'm going to go back and reread several times what you've so kindly taken the time to write, i really appreciate it.

 

And that's one hell of a first post man, thank you. :smileyvery-happy:

 

I'm sure i'll have questions later, but this is great for tonight hehe!

 

/bow

Message Edited by Kilferf 'Uhn on 10-07-2005 01:33 PM

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all this info has been posted in different threads tho next time ya should just look a lil further altough great post from the person who indeed took his time to respond!

[Murdaben]

Quick Tip:  Play an illusionist (Sony looks to have them tuned right)

 

Or maybe not even that, with the recent stifle/stun nerf.

[Kilferf 'U]

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AdiX__Styxx__ wrote:

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Kilferf 'Uhn wrote:

This is exactly what i was looking for :smileyvery-happy:

 

There is much in there that i don't understand, mostly with the way despotic and syb are going to work, i didn't understand their descriptions when i examined them ingame. This will help me a great deal when i go back in the game tonight and can make more sense of what they're actually doing. I'm going to go back and reread several times what you've so kindly taken the time to write, i really appreciate it.

 

And that's one hell of a first post man, thank you. :smileyvery-happy:

 

I'm sure i'll have questions later, but this is great for tonight hehe!

 

/bow

Message Edited by Kilferf 'Uhn on 10-07-2005 01:33 PM

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all this info has been posted in different threads tho next time ya should just look a lil further altough great post from the person who indeed took his time to respond!

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Hi AdiX!

 

Please do me a favor and refrain from ever posting in one of my threads again, ok? This is not the place for you to get one up on your post count, nor is it your place to come in and tell ME how to use the forums. Get it?   o.O

 

Edit: For what it's worth, i have only resubbed to this game after a 6 month break, i'm giving it just one chance to entice me. The response i got from Cronus was exactly what i was looking for to get me back on my feet in a timely and EFFECTIVE manner. I've browsed your many "different threads" as you've so delightfully informed me of - and while you might think they're constructive, i beg to differ. I went through many, many pages looking for information and none of them were as concise or to the point as Cronus' was. So again, please, save your "look a little further" comments to yourself in the future.

Message Edited by Kilferf 'Uhn on 10-10-2005 11:06 AM

[Dystr]

wow cronus....that was a fantastic post.

[CronusFateweav]

Thank you for the positive feedback on the post, I'm glad it was useful or at least entertaining to some people. To AdiX: Your point is valid, in that all of this information probably is available piecewise elsewhere. However, forums are often in need of compilation posts, (though this specifically was made from experience and not forum dredging) and I'm sure that you yourself have made use of them in the past (consider the Coercer spells 20-60 list posted right now; that information is all available in other places, but the single post that combines it all is invaluable, and many of us are very grateful to the author of that post). I've come across another fun trick to play with charm, though I've submitted it as a bug, I'm sure it won't be a punishable offence, so have some fun with it right now if you like: This can be hard to execute. Find two mobs, ^^^ mobs are the only mobs really worth the effort here. They must be able to perform some sort of dot ability or spell. Root one target, charm the other, sic it on the first. As soon as you see either mob perform a dot, do the following (many variations also possible, of course): Stun the mob you're fighting, run over to it, break your charm, then root the mob you had as your pet. Get out of dodge before stun fades. When the dot tics again, the mobs will agro on each other though neither is charmed. Keep them both rooted and drop a dot and some nukes on each. When they finish butchering one another, one will die, the other will be low, keep root up and finish it off. If done correctly, you'll net exp (usually) for both mobs, and you'll get loot, if there's any to be had. There's also a way to cause charm to not mitigate a ^^^ mob down to a normal mob. I've not been able to replicate this effectively, but it has something to do with charming a mob that is under the effects of negative spells from another mob (similiar to the previous trick). I've also bug reported this. I've only done these things enough to get an idea how they work so I can bug sub them, but they can be fun to play with (think bar tricks, win a beer with it or something). I strongly suggest not abusing this. But feel free to get it working then bug report it, this class doesn't need anyone able to say that we're overpowered due to a bug and possibly deflect changes we may someday see.

[Murdaben]

There's also a way to cause charm to not mitigate a ^^^ mob down to a normal mob. You do this, you better /bug it, otherwise you've found (and are using) an exploit.  If you catch a GM on a bad night, they'll flag your account. Also you make a LOT of erroneous assumptions - the biggest one bein charm break times.  You seem to assume that Charm doesnt break on first combat test (which it does, almost instantly on many occasions), you also omit that you need to be ready to fight both the mob you are taking on and the one you have charmed.  And that charms on average last less than 2 minutes - meaning keep your fights under 2 minutes or against really easy stuff.  Also worth remembering is that your stuns take 3 seconds to cast - and you should be ready for them to be interrupted multiple times (they will be).  And that your AOE mez only affects an ancounter group - so if the mob you charmed was not part of the encounter, its unaffected and will continue pounding on you.  And finally, though its glossed over above, resists are much higher at higher levels - meansing that tactic above for immobilizing the mob will liekly fail most of the time.  Your tactics are probably very nice for up to the 30s.  But above that, and expecially into the high 40's and 50, they are not the way to go.  Root and nuke is the way to go once you get up here. Either that, or you must get used to high repair bills, XP Debt, leveling slow and dying a lot (which is the Sony model for higher level coercers at the moment :smileysad: ) Be sure to use the DPS increaser on any scout classes in your group.  I mandate that they have to be turned into a ratonga (if a big toon) or a troll (if a small toon) for it to work.  (Had to have some use for those shape changes other than making huge ratongas out of fire giant pets in TS and micro-trolls out of my SP mushroom pet - and then throwing forced emotes on them). As for the debuff - use that in EVERY group you are with, especially with wizzies and other nukers.  They will love hitting for their all-time high damages with your magic mitigation debuffs in place.  Its one of the few spells we have left other than the power regen that is useful for other casters. 

Message Edited by Murdabenne on 10-10-2005 04:09 PM

[CronusFateweav]

Indeed, if you read the rest of that text block, I did bug report both of the glitches with charm that I've found (Three, in fact, including the one from my original post), and I only do them for entertainment value. My intent in posting it here is that more people will try it, see that it works, then report it as a bug so that it will get a higher priority for being fixed. As stated in my first post, my cardinal rule with charm is to always have the "other" mob rooted when using it, so that I only have to deal with the broken mob when charm does (as it will) break. I don't ever use stuns as a method of saving myself, as you say, the casting times are too long to be effective for that purpose. The specific reference I made to using stun was in regards to casting stun on a rooted mob from range, meaning nothing is hitting you at the time, but it allows you to stand on top of it and cast another spell while stunned, letting you root the mobs within range of one another without having to do any weird kiting and luck with root timing. I can't speak to anything higher level than myself (43 now), but root/dot'ing is still working completely perfectly at this level. (Ex: I just now killed the level 42 Overlord in RunneyeB without him ever breaking root early). As for debt and bills... I don't really die much. We have too many ways to prevent death for a coercer to die against heroic content unless you have more than 3 or so encounters on you... Or if you go linkdead, say. Leveling slow goes without saying ;p And yeah, I think I understated the value of the Psyche debuff. Combining debuffs is especially powerful. With Psyche, hex doll, and Despair I've landed nukes for over 30% higher than their max listed damage.