Warden - Feedback!

Kalika · 10-23-2014, 01:43 AM

Hard to compare different healers, but easy to compare druids.

Currently furies are way better than wardens.

- HPS is way higher due to three group heal (hibernate), much better right prestige -- heal everything for 10 sec --
on top stormcaller renewal benefit way more to furies than too warden. -- when AoM will go live it will be 3 against 4).

- DPS wise you cannot even compare, furies get so many AOE ad big nukes .. as example two open nukes in the right tree + one ST nuke.

The main advantage of warden are DP and Cyclone and stoneskins, but currently Tank survival is mostly ensured by tank specials/immunities.

Last to dps really with a warden you need lot of WDB so low potency ... for a furie you can just go fully for pot/cb item. Again here furies are much better.

Globally we need either to :
- Give more immunities/stoneskins to the warden
- Increase warden HPS (i know it sounds insane because we are very strong in that area but furies are simply better)
- Increase warden DPS a lot.

This can be done but changing completely the warden left and right COE prestige, by enabling stormcaller renewal on CA, and by making or right dps tree actually good.

Also may be our two fun healing pets could be reviewed, last time i tested them their HPS was like 1% of mine ... last test was really long ago.

Hammdaddy · 10-23-2014, 01:51 AM

Im pretty sure the left side of fury prestige is the equivalent to cyclone but its not stoneskins its healed all damage recieved so if you get 1 shot it does nothing. Wardens are like the same dps as furies on single but like 2/3 of a furies in aoe. Utility is fine. Class is fine.
Edit: And Wdb isn't better than potency because you lose so much instinct/windblade/tunare's grace damage/combat arts it evens out with auto loss

Mermut · 10-23-2014, 01:51 AM

The right side CoE prestige for the wardens is very nice. It's some awesome group buffage. Sure, the crit bonus from sandstorm and windblade doesn't show up directly on the parse, but they do great things for the group. As a healer I will trade personal dps for group dps buffage every single time.

Aleksis · 10-23-2014, 06:47 AM

Yeah, they really need some Dev-love. Both pets heal for 20k HP every two seconds.... thats hm... nice? By an average HP of 500k (or tanks meanwhile with near 2 million HP) this amount of heal sounds a little bit ridiculous. They arent really worth of casting any more, unfortunately.

And on the left side of the "old" prestige tree the spell "Clearwater Current" should be rewied too. The heal on the 9th stack isnt really good. And (if you skilled it) the ward that comes after the 9 stacks is a 20k ward. This ward makes me laughing everytime I see it because its like.... nothing. (And yes Im skilled the most time in the right side because the left side isnt really worth the points)

And by the way where is oure sickless rezz? I heard warden (or was it druids?) should get some in AoM Tongue

And to the new prestige points:
All I was thinking all the time was "meh". We can cast for 10 sec while moving.... nice, I think? (Who wanted this? oO )
And the left side is like it was said earlier. The heal isnt really bad but the dmg isnt really good. And then for this reuse time... thats why Im only thinking "meh". Its nothing were I think "boar nice what a cool spell" but its one more heal...

Anoo · 10-23-2014, 08:38 AM

Left side Warden Prestige end-line is very... meh. The heal is great but the damage is very very low for a 30sec recast ability, even when taking into account the group heal. If this could be made into an encounter damage ability or AOE damage ability without adjusting the damage or heal amount then it would be much better and the long recast would be warranted.

Haven't found anything else to report.

Anoo · 10-24-2014, 08:14 AM

I have yet to meet a Fury that can out Heal or out DPS my Warden. Have met a few that are on par though. Not saying it is not possible, I know it is, I just have not encountered one personally. And I do not say this as a challenge.

Aleksis · 11-01-2014, 01:20 PM

So I think there will be no change any more for the listet spells. We need to wait for the next expansion in the next year, that these spells will be changed so they are again worth of casting and so I can leave them out of my hotbars for the next year. Beautiful... :/

(And with the small dmg and heal increase of the new warden-only-prestigespell I think it stays simply “meh“)

Hammdaddy · 11-01-2014, 05:02 PM

Healing on Rage of the Wild sucks honestly (here is a parse with heavy healing, thing still has the 50 meter emergency heal which could be cool on fights like cruor where people are in narnia)
[IMG]

This is soul shackle, the thing mystics/defilers get.
[IMG]

And this is a parse on beta where rage of the wild did 2% (approximatly 164k)!
The fact that in an aoe fight i hit thunderbolt maybe 4 times and that beat an thing i was casting every time it was up cause instant cast.

GIndotto · 11-01-2014, 06:03 PM

One thing I will say is the Druid was never short on group heals. I feel the ENTIRETY of each class should be looked at before nerfing or beefing up a prestige spell. Same applies here. There is no "let's be fair" in the world of healers, some currently excel way better than others and that should be included in the methodology without selling the level 100 prestige short.

It is also possible, as you noted Hamm, that the Gold Mine is in the range of the emergency group heal, and not the heal itself. I don't think any Druid can sit here and say "We needed more group heals", but it is possible you could say "We need a group heal with some beefy range for certain scenarios". Whether the heal is spot on in value or not for the outgoing HPS compared to your already heavy loadout idk, but the real value of that heal might not be constant spam of it but it's band-aid usage in future range-heavy content. The question then is, will that heal band-aid the group enough for you to get in range again, or give one straggler enough health to run that last 10 meters? That's how I'd look at it, not just, "I clicked my buttons really hard for 6 mins and it didn't do what I wanted" lol. If the answer to the band-aid question is an HONEST yes, then maybe it's perfectly fine and will be a new tool in your lineup. Whatever the case, It's clear that all the prestige lines are not fair and balanced as your breakdown shows, it just comes down to "Who really needs what and why".

Mermut · 11-01-2014, 06:09 PM

GIndotto said: ↑

“One thing I will say is the Druid was never short on group heals. I feel the ENTIRETY of each class should be looked at before nerfing or beefing up a prestige spell. Same applies here. There is no "let's be fair" in the world of healers, some currently excel way better than others and that should be included in the methodology without selling the level 100 prestige short.

It is also possible, as you noted Hamm, that the Gold Mine is in the range of the emergency group heal, and not the heal itself. I don't think any Druid can sit here and say "We needed more group heals", but it is possible you could say "We need a group heal with some beefy range for certain scenarios". Whether the heal is spot on in value or not for the outgoing HPS compared to your already heavy loadout idk, but the real value of that heal might not be constant spam of it but it's band-aid usage in future range-heavy content. The question then is, will that heal band-aid the group enough for you to get in range again, or give one straggler enough health to run that last 10 meters? That's how I'd look at it, not just, "I clicked my buttons really hard for 6 mins and it didn't do what I wanted" lol. If the answer to the band-aid question is an HONEST yes, then maybe it's perfectly fine and will be a new tool in your lineup. Whatever the case, It's clear that all the prestige lines are not fair and balanced as your breakdown shows, it just comes down to "Who really needs what and why".”

There aren't enough cases where somebody is out of range (for script reasons as opposed to not paying attention reasons) for this to be useful in your 'emergency senario'. It might be worth speccing for specific fights, but in general, I don't see any reason to run with either new warden prestige end lines in an 'all the time' spec.
Yet another group heal.. and a direct heal at that.. is among the last thing wardens needed.

GIndotto · 11-01-2014, 06:16 PM

But how do you balance some classes getting an extra heal and then others getting something entirely different @ 100? You probably don't, and you just make everyone get a group heal whether it makes sense or not LOL. Then the issue becomes how big of a group heal does that archetype need? Maybe the Druid is getting the shortest stick because of obvious group HPS reasons, in which case this new prestige IS just a trick up the sleeve and not a staple to the heal diet. If that's the case just take solace in the fact that you're still king of the heal ring! Tongue

(/smallviolin)

Hammdaddy · 11-01-2014, 06:18 PM

I mean, i just want it to be something useful, if there is ever a fight where i KNOW for a fact that people will be slow/bad (cruor is a great example) every time darkon eats the port and my group swims across, on the way back i hit howling with the pack and dps the named until everyone is over as its an high range group heal based on damage i do. This would be the second oh **** which never really happens to begin with (only fight in maw is like vu'lak).

My solution would be to change the reuse down to about 10 seconds and scale the damage down maybe a bit or change it into a 200k per person group ward with a 30 second recast.

Mermut · 11-01-2014, 06:21 PM

Exactly. Something that is useful as opposed to something that is not worth speccing for.

GIndotto · 11-01-2014, 06:22 PM

Sounds like this "situation" never comes up enough, if it is supposed to just be certain situation use.

I would hate to think your level 100 prestige will be lame just because Druid, but maybe. Eek

Hammdaddy · 11-01-2014, 06:51 PM

Eat it inquisitor, all im asking for is more dps buttons so i can outparse buffrat/scouts more often.

Lemon Wolf · 11-01-2014, 07:32 PM

I would love that! There is something else which might be useful,i brought this up at every beta i can think of. If they could add a secondary ward which only mitigates physical damage to our Ward of the Untamed. That would be really nice.

Kalika · 11-02-2014, 03:50 PM

I understand that they wanted to help non druid with AOE heals, so "soul shackle" for my mystic and and something with similar purpose for my Inqui.

But what they gave us is ridiculous.

The recast is 30 seconds, and it does less damage than my auto attack.

I would have prefered something else than a group heal, something to deal with 1 shot or to "ward" people.

But if they want to give us another HOT make a 10 -15 second recast.

The soul shackle of my mystic is on 50 seconds over 60.

Currently the shaman end line is just wonderfull and the druid one is crap.

I hope that they make the druid one at least nice.

GIndotto · 11-02-2014, 04:47 PM

Soul Shackle is up 50 seconds out of a minute? That doesn't sound very fair and balanced...what's going on here Xelgad. I mean when you start shafting the Druids something is really up! LOL

Hammdaddy · 11-02-2014, 05:17 PM

Honestly even after soul shackle we are still kings of group heals, spirit of druidism is a 400k ward per person every time it procs. My only issue is how garbage this ability parses~

Kalika · 11-03-2014, 08:42 AM

My mystic proc is rater high too, nice too see spiritual leadership (and even runic armor) both back on the parse ;-)

I'm not asking for any nerf, and i m quite aware of the difficulty that non druid had with aoe ticks ... but given the semi-long recast this new nuke should really hit hard ... either that or lower the reuse.

Anastaise · 11-11-2014, 08:38 AM

I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't adjust the reuse on this ability. It is extremely weak due to the long reuse and it parses horribly. To be honest it should be a 30 second recast (15 w/ max reuse) to make this ability good. Even changing it to 40/20 would be a nice improvement.

10-23-2014, 01:51 AM	#3
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Kalika said: ↑ “ This can be done but changing completely the warden left and right COE prestige, by enabling stormcaller renewal on CA, and by making or right dps tree actually good.” The right side CoE prestige for the wardens is very nice. It's some awesome group buffage. Sure, the crit bonus from sandstorm and windblade doesn't show up directly on the parse, but they do great things for the group. As a healer I will trade personal dps for group dps buffage every single time.

10-23-2014, 06:47 AM	#4
Aleksis Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Kalika said: ↑ “Also may be our two fun healing pets could be reviewed, last time i tested them their HPS was like 1% of mine ... last test was really long ago.” Yeah, they really need some Dev-love. Both pets heal for 20k HP every two seconds.... thats hm... nice? By an average HP of 500k (or tanks meanwhile with near 2 million HP) this amount of heal sounds a little bit ridiculous. They arent really worth of casting any more, unfortunately. And on the left side of the "old" prestige tree the spell "Clearwater Current" should be rewied too. The heal on the 9th stack isnt really good. And (if you skilled it) the ward that comes after the 9 stacks is a 20k ward. This ward makes me laughing everytime I see it because its like.... nothing. (And yes Im skilled the most time in the right side because the left side isnt really worth the points) And by the way where is oure sickless rezz? I heard warden (or was it druids?) should get some in AoM And to the new prestige points: All I was thinking all the time was "meh". We can cast for 10 sec while moving.... nice, I think? (Who wanted this? oO ) And the left side is like it was said earlier. The heal isnt really bad but the dmg isnt really good. And then for this reuse time... thats why Im only thinking "meh". Its nothing were I think "boar nice what a cool spell" but its one more heal...

11-01-2014, 05:02 PM	#8
Hammdaddy Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Healing on Rage of the Wild sucks honestly (here is a parse with heavy healing, thing still has the 50 meter emergency heal which could be cool on fights like cruor where people are in narnia) This is soul shackle, the thing mystics/defilers get. And this is a parse on beta where rage of the wild did 2% (approximatly 164k)! The fact that in an aoe fight i hit thunderbolt maybe 4 times and that beat an thing i was casting every time it was up cause instant cast.

11-01-2014, 06:09 PM	#10
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	GIndotto said: ↑ “One thing I will say is the Druid was never short on group heals. I feel the ENTIRETY of each class should be looked at before nerfing or beefing up a prestige spell. Same applies here. There is no "let's be fair" in the world of healers, some currently excel way better than others and that should be included in the methodology without selling the level 100 prestige short. It is also possible, as you noted Hamm, that the Gold Mine is in the range of the emergency group heal, and not the heal itself. I don't think any Druid can sit here and say "We needed more group heals", but it is possible you could say "We need a group heal with some beefy range for certain scenarios". Whether the heal is spot on in value or not for the outgoing HPS compared to your already heavy loadout idk, but the real value of that heal might not be constant spam of it but it's band-aid usage in future range-heavy content. The question then is, will that heal band-aid the group enough for you to get in range again, or give one straggler enough health to run that last 10 meters? That's how I'd look at it, not just, "I clicked my buttons really hard for 6 mins and it didn't do what I wanted" lol. If the answer to the band-aid question is an HONEST yes, then maybe it's perfectly fine and will be a new tool in your lineup. Whatever the case, It's clear that all the prestige lines are not fair and balanced as your breakdown shows, it just comes down to "Who really needs what and why".” There aren't enough cases where somebody is out of range (for script reasons as opposed to not paying attention reasons) for this to be useful in your 'emergency senario'. It might be worth speccing for specific fights, but in general, I don't see any reason to run with either new warden prestige end lines in an 'all the time' spec. Yet another group heal.. and a direct heal at that.. is among the last thing wardens needed.

11-01-2014, 06:16 PM	#11
GIndotto Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	But how do you balance some classes getting an extra heal and then others getting something entirely different @ 100? You probably don't, and you just make everyone get a group heal whether it makes sense or not LOL. Then the issue becomes how big of a group heal does that archetype need? Maybe the Druid is getting the shortest stick because of obvious group HPS reasons, in which case this new prestige IS just a trick up the sleeve and not a staple to the heal diet. If that's the case just take solace in the fact that you're still king of the heal ring! (/smallviolin)

10-23-2014, 01:43 AM	#1
Kalika Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Hard to compare different healers, but easy to compare druids. Currently furies are way better than wardens. - HPS is way higher due to three group heal (hibernate), much better right prestige -- heal everything for 10 sec -- on top stormcaller renewal benefit way more to furies than too warden. -- when AoM will go live it will be 3 against 4). - DPS wise you cannot even compare, furies get so many AOE ad big nukes .. as example two open nukes in the right tree + one ST nuke. The main advantage of warden are DP and Cyclone and stoneskins, but currently Tank survival is mostly ensured by tank specials/immunities. Last to dps really with a warden you need lot of WDB so low potency ... for a furie you can just go fully for pot/cb item. Again here furies are much better. Globally we need either to : - Give more immunities/stoneskins to the warden - Increase warden HPS (i know it sounds insane because we are very strong in that area but furies are simply better) - Increase warden DPS a lot. This can be done but changing completely the warden left and right COE prestige, by enabling stormcaller renewal on CA, and by making or right dps tree actually good. Also may be our two fun healing pets could be reviewed, last time i tested them their HPS was like 1% of mine ... last test was really long ago.

10-23-2014, 08:38 AM	#5
Anoo New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Left side Warden Prestige end-line is very... meh. The heal is great but the damage is very very low for a 30sec recast ability, even when taking into account the group heal. If this could be made into an encounter damage ability or AOE damage ability without adjusting the damage or heal amount then it would be much better and the long recast would be warranted. Haven't found anything else to report.

10-24-2014, 08:14 AM	#6
Anoo New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I have yet to meet a Fury that can out Heal or out DPS my Warden. Have met a few that are on par though. Not saying it is not possible, I know it is, I just have not encountered one personally. And I do not say this as a challenge.

11-01-2014, 01:20 PM	#7
Aleksis Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	So I think there will be no change any more for the listet spells. We need to wait for the next expansion in the next year, that these spells will be changed so they are again worth of casting and so I can leave them out of my hotbars for the next year. Beautiful... :/ (And with the small dmg and heal increase of the new warden-only-prestigespell I think it stays simply “meh“)

11-01-2014, 06:03 PM	#9
GIndotto Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	One thing I will say is the Druid was never short on group heals. I feel the ENTIRETY of each class should be looked at before nerfing or beefing up a prestige spell. Same applies here. There is no "let's be fair" in the world of healers, some currently excel way better than others and that should be included in the methodology without selling the level 100 prestige short. It is also possible, as you noted Hamm, that the Gold Mine is in the range of the emergency group heal, and not the heal itself. I don't think any Druid can sit here and say "We needed more group heals", but it is possible you could say "We need a group heal with some beefy range for certain scenarios". Whether the heal is spot on in value or not for the outgoing HPS compared to your already heavy loadout idk, but the real value of that heal might not be constant spam of it but it's band-aid usage in future range-heavy content. The question then is, will that heal band-aid the group enough for you to get in range again, or give one straggler enough health to run that last 10 meters? That's how I'd look at it, not just, "I clicked my buttons really hard for 6 mins and it didn't do what I wanted" lol. If the answer to the band-aid question is an HONEST yes, then maybe it's perfectly fine and will be a new tool in your lineup. Whatever the case, It's clear that all the prestige lines are not fair and balanced as your breakdown shows, it just comes down to "Who really needs what and why".

11-01-2014, 06:18 PM	#12
Hammdaddy Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I mean, i just want it to be something useful, if there is ever a fight where i KNOW for a fact that people will be slow/bad (cruor is a great example) every time darkon eats the port and my group swims across, on the way back i hit howling with the pack and dps the named until everyone is over as its an high range group heal based on damage i do. This would be the second oh **** which never really happens to begin with (only fight in maw is like vu'lak). My solution would be to change the reuse down to about 10 seconds and scale the damage down maybe a bit or change it into a 200k per person group ward with a 30 second recast.

11-01-2014, 06:21 PM	#13
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Hammdaddy said: ↑ “I mean, i just want it to be something useful, if there is ever a fight where i KNOW for a fact that people will be slow/bad (cruor is a great example) every time darkon eats the port and my group swims across, on the way back i hit howling with the pack and dps the named until everyone is over as its an high range group heal based on damage i do. This would be the second oh **** which never really happens to begin with (only fight in maw is like vu'lak). My solution would be to change the reuse down to about 10 seconds and scale the damage down maybe a bit or change it into a 200k per person group ward with a 30 second recast.” Exactly. Something that is useful as opposed to something that is not worth speccing for.

11-01-2014, 06:22 PM	#14
GIndotto Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Sounds like this "situation" never comes up enough, if it is supposed to just be certain situation use. I would hate to think your level 100 prestige will be lame just because Druid, but maybe.

11-01-2014, 06:51 PM	#15
Hammdaddy Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	GIndotto said: ↑ “Sounds like this "situation" never comes up enough, if it is supposed to just be certain situation use. I would hate to think your level 100 prestige will be lame just because Druid, but maybe. ” Eat it inquisitor, all im asking for is more dps buttons so i can outparse buffrat/scouts more often.

11-01-2014, 07:32 PM	#16
Lemon Wolf New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Hammdaddy said: ↑ “or change it into a 200k per person group ward with a 30 second recast.” I would love that! There is something else which might be useful,i brought this up at every beta i can think of. If they could add a secondary ward which only mitigates physical damage to our Ward of the Untamed. That would be really nice.

11-02-2014, 03:50 PM	#17
Kalika Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Hammdaddy said: ↑ “I mean, i just want it to be something useful, if there is ever a fight where i KNOW for a fact that people will be slow/bad (cruor is a great example) every time darkon eats the port and my group swims across, on the way back i hit howling with the pack and dps the named until everyone is over as its an high range group heal based on damage i do. This would be the second oh **** which never really happens to begin with (only fight in maw is like vu'lak). My solution would be to change the reuse down to about 10 seconds and scale the damage down maybe a bit or change it into a 200k per person group ward with a 30 second recast.” I understand that they wanted to help non druid with AOE heals, so "soul shackle" for my mystic and and something with similar purpose for my Inqui. But what they gave us is ridiculous. The recast is 30 seconds, and it does less damage than my auto attack. I would have prefered something else than a group heal, something to deal with 1 shot or to "ward" people. But if they want to give us another HOT make a 10 -15 second recast. The soul shackle of my mystic is on 50 seconds over 60. Currently the shaman end line is just wonderfull and the druid one is crap. I hope that they make the druid one at least nice.

11-02-2014, 04:47 PM	#18
GIndotto Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Soul Shackle is up 50 seconds out of a minute? That doesn't sound very fair and balanced...what's going on here Xelgad. I mean when you start shafting the Druids something is really up! LOL

11-02-2014, 05:17 PM	#19
Hammdaddy Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Honestly even after soul shackle we are still kings of group heals, spirit of druidism is a 400k ward per person every time it procs. My only issue is how garbage this ability parses~

11-03-2014, 08:42 AM	#20
Kalika Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Hammdaddy said: ↑ “Honestly even after soul shackle we are still kings of group heals, spirit of druidism is a 400k ward per person every time it procs. My only issue is how garbage this ability parses~” My mystic proc is rater high too, nice too see spiritual leadership (and even runic armor) both back on the parse ;-) I'm not asking for any nerf, and i m quite aware of the difficulty that non druid had with aoe ticks ... but given the semi-long recast this new nuke should really hit hard ... either that or lower the reuse.

11-11-2014, 08:38 AM	#21
Anastaise Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't adjust the reuse on this ability. It is extremely weak due to the long reuse and it parses horribly. To be honest it should be a 30 second recast (15 w/ max reuse) to make this ability good. Even changing it to 40/20 would be a nice improvement.