components returned (or not) on failed combines.

[alaplayer]

Recently connections had seemed much improved (on Everfrost) fewer boots to char select while zoning, sometimes zoning took a while but you at least were not booted as often.

Last night was very laggy at raid, buttons not responding when clicking and up to 2 seconds delay when clicking spells.

During break (a bad decision) I decided what better time than the present to make a Totem of the Draconic Oracle, still the same sluggishness in controls and in the middle of the combine I am booted to character select, I was able to get back into the game immediately, sometimes you have to wait until you are logged out. When I returned I am minus 1 Wurm Tongue, 2 Drake fangs, and 3 Maligonian horns.

GM says too bad the way it is designed, which is not the case, this stuff was just thrown together in a mad rush and is not behaving the way other combines do because in order to get this content rushed out and onto a live beta test the recipes were not properly designed to return what should be returned if a combine fails. I requested it be sent to a lead, from now on on these items I am just going to use a potion of innovation for an instant combine.

Is this the proper response or does the GM not understand what is going on here?

[Calthine]

Well, the GM can't really do anything about lag.  Lag can be caused by the game, or SOE's servers, but almost always it's something else - congestion on the interwebz, signal loss in your home, a PC that can't handle your graphics settings.

Years ago SOE establised that they really couldn't do reimbursements every time someone hollered "lag," unless there was known reported issue on their end. They just can't be responsible for all the stuff beyong their control.  You might ask for an escallation and maybe you'll get someone to look closer at your specific situation.

BTW, I never ever have lag when crafting, even in the guild hall where it's really busy.

[alaplayer]

Normally I don't either last night was bad, really noticeable because over the past 6 weeks or so things have been much better. Vent was working fine. We had an increased number of peple booted to character select zoning last night, and the lag in Underdepths was horrible, not just for me but everyone in raid.

I'm not sure it is the intent of the design of the recipe to consume ALL of those items if the combine fails, that is a lot to lose. There is no consistency many (most?) recipes you would only lose the fuel, I do not know of any where you lose the primary component of course I am not a heavy crafter so I can't say with certainty.

In this case there was no signal loss in home, vent was wroking fine, no stuttering going on and there was chatter happening as we were on break, the PC is not the issue it comfortably runs 2 instances balanced and depending on zone can do 2 at high quality with ACT running. I can not say it wasn't congestion on the internet, because traffic flow to and from my vent server may be just fine, then the path to EQ2 servers could be congested, which is beyond the control of myself or SOE.

It is a pretty brutal hit to lose the items that I lost, though I'll get by. What I am wondering mostly is this... Is this the INTENDED result of a failed combine on that recipe? I don't think that it should be, but as I said in the future any of these being made will be made with a potion of innovation (or whichever one does the progress/durability by 1000) for an instant craft.

I already requested it be escalated to a lead BTW and it was, I haven't heard back though.

People need to be aware of this because it takes a lot of runs and a lot of drops to get what you need to make one of those items.

It would also be nice if a red name could say "Yes this is what we want to happen" or "No, we need to look at this, it should have done X"

[Meirril]

I can't say if this was intentional design or just the new guy not following the previous examples.

I will say that these recipes have multiple rare components and can't follow the previous examples entirely. Usually recipes have 1 rare primary component (or a rare fuel component) and the rare was returned on a failure as long as you got at least 1 bar of progress. (if you got none, you just lost it all) Uusually the more bars you got before you failed the more of the other components you got back as well.

The SS apprentice recipes use only rare components. Some of the most used components are also the most valuable. Trying to say which components you should get back on a failure is a real headache. Giving back all the componets and just eating the fuel on a failure seems overly generous as well. If you choose to craft under horrible conditions you should be prepared to deal with the concequences.

I'm ok with it staying the way it is now, but I also think it should be changed to return the "primary" component on 1 bar, primary+tritary on 2 bars, and primary+secondary+2tritary on 3 bars to make it more like other recipes.

[alaplayer]

Meirril wrote:

I can't say if this was intentional design or just the new guy not following the previous examples.

If you choose to craft under horrible conditions you should be prepared to deal with the concequences.

I'm ok with it staying the way it is now, but I also think it should be changed to return the "primary" component on 1 bar, primary+tritary on 2 bars, and primary+secondary+2tritary on 3 bars to make it more like other recipes.

Until the combine is started I do not know how you can be aware of the consequences, if I am distilling powders for fragments I know I can cancel on the first bar, it is visually shown to me, but only when the crafting begins. I don't mind dealing with the consequences, I do think it needs to be consistant. These are different than the normal recipes as you stated and probably was overlooked as to what to do in the event of a failure. With the amount of lag my guild was experiencing in raid last night though I do believe it was SOE's end, I pay a monthly fee, part of which should be being used to guarantee me good/quality service.

Right now it sounds like this is not what should happen I will do some testing on testcopy and see what happens on other recipes/apprentices.

[Katz]

I'm not keen on recipes requiring multiple rare components.   The experience discussed in this thread just re-enforces that dislike.  

I have been going along just fine, no lag or anything and then boom, totally dc'd out of the game. No warning at all.  That's with nothing wrong with my internet or anything BUT eq2 randomly being a pain.

It seems harsh to lose multiple rare components due to something you really have no control over.

What if this had been a commission craft?  Would the components have gone back to the other person or would they still have been lost?

This is troubling.

[alaplayer]

The escalation found an amicable resolution. I'm not 100% but like I said there *should* be some price to pay.

I agree Katz it is troubling I had just commissioned the raid version for a guildmate, what if it had happened then?

If the commission fails and all components are not returned it could be used as a source of griefing, and this could SERIOUSLY cause some grief. If it does return them then it is not balanced and the 'punishment' mechanic could be bypassed by using the items on a boxed character, or a trusted friend in game.

Maybe a failed craft needs to cause death, or simply inflict some damage on your gear.

[Calthine]

alaplayer wrote:

The escalation found an amicable resolution. I'm not 100% but like I said there *should* be some price to pay.

That's great news.

[alaplayer]

Yep.

I have never had a valid issue not get resolved by the GM's, I have had to ask that they be escalated or provide more detail but the end result has always been reasonable.

I'd advise anyone that does one of these type combines to use a potion of innovation just to avoid any possible headache.

[Xianthia]

This is worrisome, I would not be ok to lose any rare on a failed combine.  Unless I'm misunderstanding the whole issue.

Yes definitely lose the fuel (as it's usual I believe) when you stop the combine, but the rares? Imagine being on a commission and losing the rares...

I hope Omougi is looking at options for this issue as I think it's not the only time I've seen someone post about this happening (or similar situation).

[decator666]

I really hate how this has turned out for you.  This is not your fault that the game crashed and you lose everything you were crafting with...especially rares...I have always been paranoid of crashing during my timed work orders but that's nothing compared to the loss of valuable resources here.

It would seem that in the event of a crash you should always be refunded your resources.  It shouldn't be a big deal to implement that as a policy.  It's not fair to lose your precious resources because of a crash.  And why should it be any big deal to just replace the valuables (at least) that you lost???

But I think maybe some would be worried that it would flood the Ticket system...I don't know about that...maybe it's a hassle for them to replace lost items due to a crash...That could be part of the reason for the lack of help from the GM...but just not sure...

I hope it gets resolved to your benefit.

[alaplayer]

I updated the issue ITT already it was resolved to my satisfaction, now it looks as if everything was returned one item was in overflow that I overlooked.

There needs to be a penalty for failed combines in crafting, if not there is an imbalance and simply losing the fuel costs is not enough, the fuel costs are there either way. The biggest problem is the inconsistency between these special recipes and regular recipes. I think the easiest way to do it would be to give 10% damage to equipment for missing a reaction in the crafting process and 20% for a failed combine. I am primarily an adventurer but on my main I have all the crafting endlines/factions/epic and my crafter was rolled in '05 and has been through all phases and changes in tradeskilling.

It was resolved 100%, I thought I was missing a bubinga lumber, which the way the process is designed is what I think I would have lost, but I have that.

As is a failed combine here is going to cost someone 400-1800 plat, maybe more depending on the item that was being crafted. I'm just glad this was an item I was making for myself, if it had been for anyone else I'd of just had to eat the plat and buy from broker.

[General_Info]

alaplayer wrote:

There needs to be a penalty for failed combines in crafting, if not there is an imbalance and simply losing the fuel costs is not enough, the fuel costs are there either way. The biggest problem is the inconsistency between these special recipes and regular recipes. I think the easiest way to do it would be to give 10% damage to equipment for missing a reaction in the crafting process and 20% for a failed combine. I am primarily an adventurer but on my main I have all the crafting endlines/factions/epic and my crafter was rolled in '05 and has been through all phases and changes in tradeskilling.

explain to me how taking damage on adventure equipment has anything to do with crafting? ether way it is still chump change. you'll be hard pressed to fail a combine at max level with the right tools unless it is caused by lag. as for failed reactions how is that even remotely difficult with or without equipment damage?

you idea doesn't improve crafting or make it harder you are only marginally increasing the cost of failure.

[Laenai]

Eh...I would've kept on them.

I had the same thing happen back in the day when ry'gorr armor took white shards as fuel. The game was horrible laggy that day, I crashed to character select in the middle of a combine, FINALLY got back into game, and everything was gone but there was no armor piece.

Needless to say, I was mortified as the person I was making it for wasn't at all happy.

So I petitioned, was told nothing could be done. Turns out that was a load of cockamamey. I had it escalated twice. 3 days later, the person had their armor in the overflow of their bag like it was magic.

If at first you don't succeed, keep in mind that GM's have bosses with better access to stuff.

[Cloudrat]

Everytime there is a change in the standard recipe format when it comes to ingredients there seems to be a oooops  we forgot  how things are supposed to work period while they try to figure out how to prevent mishaps like this.

You are not supposed to lose rares when failing a combine no matter how the combine fails ... lag.....crash..... autorun by accident...crash of person getting a commission  or just plain bad crafting resulting in failure.

If you did...  petition... bug report ... feedback... post in forums and send a pm to the crafting dev ,  Omougi atm I believe.

[alaplayer]

Thanks cloudrat I'll take your post as a good authority, I wasn't 100% sure I knew that you potentially lost something.

I did get taken care of. The escalation did do that, but the reply was "We will take it on our word that X happened and return these items to you this time as a courtesy" So there seems to be confusion there, I was going to PM Omougi but it had been weeks since he logged in and around here you never know.

[alaplayer]

Tomorrows update.

Good to see this get implemented in a timely manner!!!

TRADESKILLS

Rare GU63 recipe combines now reward the rare component back if the recipe is canceled instead of fuel.

[Calthine]

alaplayer wrote:

Tomorrows update.

Good to see this get implemented in a timely manner!!!

 

TRADESKILLS

Rare GU63 recipe combines now reward the rare component back if the recipe is canceled instead of fuel.

Good job!