thread about T1 damage equality

[Davngr1]

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

[Raknid]

So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?

[Freejazzlive]

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p  cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.

While I realize that level 36 characters are nearly GOD-mode these days, my BL feels like GOD-mode on steroids, & I never feel as if I have to do anything special at all to stomp through normal leveling content. Certainly it's not a matter of timing & dedication.

It's waaaaaaaaay OP & needs to be toned down.

[Yimway]

Raknid wrote:

So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?

This is already the plan at SOE.

I just don't expect it till expansion, but xelgad has hinted at some things comming sooner.

The Plan(tm)

1) Launch OP class with content deprived expansion.  The very OP nature will get players to treadmill with it until next expansion.2) Buff all other classes up to said new OP class come next expansion, cause its really not healthy long term to leave a class that OP (see previous examples).

They didn't launch the way they are by mistake, and they wont commit marketplace suicide by nerfing the crap out of the class everyone and his brother just leveled up an alt of.

[Raknid]

In a sadly twisted way that makes complete sense.

[Davngr1]

Freejazzlive wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p  cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.

While I realize that level 36 characters are nearly GOD-mode these days, my BL feels like GOD-mode on steroids, & I never feel as if I have to do anything special at all to stomp through normal leveling content. Certainly it's not a matter of timing & dedication.

It's waaaaaaaaay OP & needs to be toned down.

 lvl 36?  you don't know how to play a beastlord yet bro but when you get to your 90's and start unlocking the classes potential you will realize that it does take skill to get those big numbers granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be.

  adjust other classes with changes that SHOULD be put in game anyway and whalla!  fixed

[Davngr1]

Raknid wrote:

So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?

  these other classes have needed tweaks for a while now..   beastlords just made the troubles stand out more.

[Seiffil]

Davngr1 wrote:

   ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

That 5m requirement you're referring to has been gone since Sentinel's Fate.

[Neiloch]

Seiffil@Permafrost wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

   ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

That 5m requirement you're referring to has been gone since Sentinel's Fate.

I'd still like to see rangers made more ranged. A few of my Melee CA's are still beating the hell out of most of my ranged ones on parses. They need to reevaluate what ever 'score' system they use to balance CA's. Hopefully making rangers more ranged is in the works. Maybe some AA's that turn melee CA's into ranged ones similar to how some warden, inquisitor and mystic AA's turn spells into melee CA's

[Kizee]

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.

None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.

Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.

[Freejazzlive]

Davngr1 wrote:

you don't know how to play a beastlord yet

Well, it's kind of difficult to learn how to play one properly when every mob you fight dies in 1-2 combat arts.

[Nrgy]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Raknid wrote:

So instead of rebalancing one class you suggest they tweak all the rest?

This is already the plan at SOE.

I just don't expect it till expansion, but xelgad has hinted at some things comming sooner.

The Plan(tm)

1) Launch OP class with content deprived expansion.  The very OP nature will get players to treadmill with it until next expansion.2) Buff all other classes up to said new OP class come next expansion, cause its really not healthy long term to leave a class that OP (see previous examples).

They didn't launch the way they are by mistake, and they wont commit marketplace suicide by nerfing the crap out of the class everyone and his brother just leveled up an alt of.

This is sooooo true.  Whatever the short comings of the SOE Dev teams may be, which I feel are directly related to resource overloading, the SOE Planners are no dopes.  They are the reason F2P launched 2 weeks prior to SWtOR.  They are the reason Beastlords were brought into the mix after years and years of holding the "never" line.  They are the reason that all of SF still only requires old school gear, so the F2P folks can level to 90.  They are the reason F2P is little more than a hook due to plat and gear restrictions.  They are the reason the SC Marketplace is so driven.  IMO, at the current staffing levels of EQ2 on the Dev side, they have little time to actually "tweak" things, which makes the whole CM removal a scary process.  I seriously doubt SOE will close down EQ1 or EQ2 if/when EQNext launches.

[Freejazzlive]

Davngr1 wrote:

granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be

& BTW -- "right now" is what I'm talking about, so I'm glad you agree, though I'm unsure why you even responded.

[Davngr1]

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.

None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.

Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.

 close to one million dps on what?  how close was the next t1 dps class?  

  they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.

[Davngr1]

Freejazzlive wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be

& BTW -- "right now" is what I'm talking about, so I'm glad you agree, though I'm unsure why you even responded.

 because you're commenting on a class that you don't even play at 90 with capped AA and gear.     this is clearly a "raid dps" thread.    

 i apologize if i gave off the impression that damage on enchanted land's badgers was in question.

[Freejazzlive]

Davngr1 wrote:

Freejazzlive wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

granted right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be

& BTW -- "right now" is what I'm talking about, so I'm glad you agree, though I'm unsure why you even responded.

 because you're commenting on a class that you don't even play at 90 with capped AA and gear.     this is clearly a "raid dps" thread..

No, YOU were the one who said "right now they are a bit higher on the food chain then they should be," & since you claim to be speaking strictly of raid DPS, I assumed you were agreeing that they're higher than they should be.

I'm saying they're over-powered at low levels, & you're saying they're a bit higher than they should be (i.e., overpowered) at level 90, which means they're over-powered across the board. Which means you agree with me. Thanks.

[Davngr1]

Freejazzlive wrote:

It's waaaaaaaaay OP & needs to be toned down.

  this, is what i don't agree with and have all ready stated in the original post that this was not a "bash" thread but thanks for your input anyhow.  

[Proud_Silence]

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

proc 1.2 times per min ? might as well keep it the way it is then.... even if it proced 5.0 a min it would not make up for anything. Also FF combo benefiting from AE stealth targets hits...seriously doubt it would change anything.

Personally i have lost nearly my entire motivation to raid as assassin seing how some undergeared BST can join raid and not just slightly beat everyone on parse, but completely dominate.

What else can a predator offer the raid or grp ? hate transfer, which is not that great or unique, a poison proc for another mellee class. rangers dont offer anything at all. And in exchange we were supposed to be top notch dmg dealers. now BST comes along and can either be T0 dps ( cause to call em T1 dps would be understatement) or T1 dps + offer sick temps to the grp. Oh yeah and that grp buff claw something already is better then anything predators can offer to the grp.

All your suggestions are like a drop of water on a hot stone, you don't seem to understand where the dps from the various dps classes comes from. it sure isn't from some procs or abilities on 1min+ timers, so you can tweak those as much as you like. lol just thinking of Sniper shot/ assassinate being on a 15min timer "because otherwise it would be too OP ability"...makes me chuckle...

There's so much wrong with dps classes and equality atm...

[Davngr1]

Proud_Silence wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

proc 1.2 times per min ? might as well keep it the way it is then.... even if it proced 5.0 a min it would not make up for anything. Also FF combo benefiting from AE stealth targets hits...seriously doubt it would change anything.

Personally i have lost nearly my entire motivation to raid as assassin seing how some undergeared BST can join raid and not just slightly beat everyone on parse, but completely dominate.

What else can a predator offer the raid or grp ? hate transfer, which is not that great or unique, a poison proc for another mellee class. rangers dont offer anything at all. And in exchange we were supposed to be top notch dmg dealers. now BST comes along and can either be T0 dps ( cause to call em T1 dps would be understatement) or T1 dps + offer sick temps to the grp. Oh yeah and that grp buff claw something already is better then anything predators can offer to the grp.

All your suggestions are like a drop of water on a hot stone, you don't seem to understand where the dps from the various dps classes comes from. it sure isn't from some procs or abilities on 1min+ timers, so you can tweak those as much as you like. lol just thinking of Sniper shot/ assassinate being on a 15min timer "because otherwise it would be too OP ability"...makes me chuckle...

There's so much wrong with dps classes and equality atm...

 assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen.     the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. 

 assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters.  maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.

[Kizee]

Davngr1 wrote:

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.

None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.

Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.

 close to one million dps on what?  how close was the next t1 dps class?  

  they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.

Kolskeggr x4 raid. 7mill raidwide dps.

From what I read....the next closest dps was 500-600k.  So a minimum of a 300k differance compairing equally skilled/geared t1 dps. Yeah...balanced my backside.

[Davngr1]

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.

None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.

Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.

 close to one million dps on what?  how close was the next t1 dps class?  

  they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.

Kolskeggr x4 raid. 7mill raidwide dps.

From what I read....the next closest dps was 500-600k.  So a minimum of a 300k differance compairing equally skilled/geared t1 dps. Yeah...balanced my backside.

  you mean that one encounter that every one post parses on?    how about the rest of the encounters?

  i never said they where balanced, in fact this entire thread is to give the other t1 dps classes the boost they need.  

  not really understanding why people keep posting their QQ about beastlords here when i specificly posted in the OP that this was not a QQ thread/nerf thread.

[Kizee]

Davngr1 wrote:

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 like to start by saying that i'm really happy with my beastlord and please don't touch them unless it's to make them better :p     cos it's a really fun play style and completely warrants t1 damage since it requires timing and dedication to your character to put up those solid numbers.  

  having that said that..   it's pretty obvious that other t1 dps classes have fallen a bit behind nothing super major but a tweak or two is needed in my opinion.  

  here are some of my ideas and anyone who feels like chipping in ideas is welcome to but please keep in mind THIS IS NOT a nerf so and so thread.

   my suggestions:

   for sorc:

    replace the WIS end line Sagacity (12% power cost reduction) with a "preparation" like ability.   pre nerf nejenas' ring like.  

  wizard: allow full manaburn benefit for fiery blast combos. 

   lock: my lock is still a baby so if anyone has some ideas feel free to post

  preds:

  change INT end line Intoxication to a regular proc.  make it proc 1.2 times per min or whatever you see fit to replace the abilities current 45 second reuse timer.

    assassin: allow fatal follow up combo to benefit from AE targets hit by massacre and stealth assault.  this would not increase it's all ready satisfactory single target damage but would give some added benefit to ae, something that assassin lacks.

  ranger:  again ranger is low level and thus i can't really come up with anything from current tier experience but i would suggest removing the 5m requirement for the myth buff auto damage and totally remove or greatly cut down on melee range CA's to make ranger a true range melee dps. 

  feel free to add ideas and please keep the negative comments to your self or to other threads devoted to axing other classes

Beastlords are t1 dps when they are in healing stance.... when they are in feral they are in a tier all by themselves.

None of your changes will double the dps of the classes you listed since there are parses of beastlords putting up close to 1 million dps.

Beastlords are so far out of line that even if they did bring all other classes up to where they should be it would break the game totally.

 close to one million dps on what?  how close was the next t1 dps class?  

  they aren't that far out of wack and the changes i mentioned would improve damage considerably.

Kolskeggr x4 raid. 7mill raidwide dps.

From what I read....the next closest dps was 500-600k.  So a minimum of a 300k differance compairing equally skilled/geared t1 dps. Yeah...balanced my backside.

  you mean that one encounter that every one post parses on?    how about the rest of the encounters?

  i never said they where balanced, in fact this entire thread is to give the other t1 dps classes the boost they need.  

  not really understanding why people keep posting their QQ about beastlords here when i specificly posted in the OP that this was not a QQ thread/nerf thread.

Why does it matter what encounter it is? If a BL smokes all other t1 dps by 300k on that encounter then pretty sure they will beat them all the encounters.

It is pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about by the ideas you are suggesting.

If you boost the classes to what BL's can do then you will have 20+ mill parses and mobs will die in 2 secs. LOL. Easiest way is to "fix" BL's.

[Proud_Silence]

Davngr1 wrote:

 assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen.     the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. 

 assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters.  maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.

- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class.  See the fundamental flaw in this ?

- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion;  if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.

- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter

- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:

Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonus

Rogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/Pot

Sorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/Pot

Summoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with pet

Yep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...

[Kenazeer]

Proud_Silence wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen.     the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. 

 assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters.  maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.

- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class.  See the fundamental flaw in this ?

- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion;  if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.

- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter

- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:

Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonus

Rogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/Pot

Sorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/Pot

Summoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with pet

Yep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...

Correct me if I am wrong here, but...

Wasn't CLASS BALANCE the all encompassing reason we were given why BLs would never be added?

How's that working out?

Sad to see that many customers desirability and relative performance were harmed by SOE pandering to the crowd and going for the easy money grab with BLs.

As with a lot of things though, they failed to quite think it through, or to do the job right the first time, and now are left with a bucket of stuff that they can't help but put a stick in and stir.

They are now in a position where they must either make AoD buying, BL playing, customers unhappy, leave other customers whose classes are ridicuoulsy outshined unhappy, or break the game to make everyone happy.

Tough nut to crack, but the RIGHT solution to balance BLs back to where they need to be in each of their stances. "Offensive" stance on the low-middle end of T1, "defensive" stance back with the rest of the utility pack.

[Freejazzlive]

Kenazeer wrote:

the RIGHT solution to balance BLs back to where they need to be in each of their stances. "Offensive" stance on the low-middle end of T1, "defensive" stance back with the rest of the utility pack.

This, reiterated for truthiness.

[Davngr1]

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

Why does it matter what encounter it is? If a BL smokes all other t1 dps by 300k on that encounter then pretty sure they will beat them all the encounters.

It is pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about by the ideas you are suggesting.

If you boost the classes to what BL's can do then you will have 20+ mill parses and mobs will die in 2 secs. LOL. Easiest way is to "fix" BL's.

  so can warlocks put up insane damage on all encounters because they can do it on ae encounters?

   your logic is flawed.  

  i have seen beastlord parses and yes they are a head of the pack but not nearly as drastic as the QQ on this forum.

[Davngr1]

Proud_Silence wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen.     the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. 

 assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters.  maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.

- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class.  See the fundamental flaw in this ?

- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion;  if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.

- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter

- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:

Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonus

Rogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/Pot

Sorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/Pot

Summoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with pet

Yep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...

 devs will never make those changes and that's a good thing because everything you suggest is braindead faceroll damage increases. 

 i suggest adding different mechanics to boost damage IF the player is willing to put forth the effort.

 edit.

 to add that letting poison critical again is another way to boost non-beastlord scouts.

 oh and would like to add that if there's a beastlord in my assassins group, he gets toxins because i want to increase our groups dps not nerf it.

[Loldawg]

Would love to see the pet AA added to summoner pets. Seems like there is some interesting interaction with BL pets that adds to the play style - would love to see all these BL enhancements to gameplay make its way over to other pet classes. Maybe make scout classes a viable option. 

The OP is pro-actively trying to stave off some massive nerf by suggesting some minor enhancements to other classes as if that will solve the problem. Sorry bro - nerf incoming - tho like most said it'll likely be awhile so enjoy while you've got it.

[Proud_Silence]

Davngr1 wrote:

Proud_Silence wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen.     the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. 

 assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters.  maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.

- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class.  See the fundamental flaw in this ?

- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion;  if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.

- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter

- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:

Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonus

Rogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/Pot

Sorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/Pot

Summoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with pet

Yep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...

 devs will never make those changes and that's a good thing because everything you suggest is braindead faceroll damage increases. 

Hint: irony

 i suggest adding different mechanics to boost damage IF the player is willing to put forth the effort.

Because figuring out appropriate rotations as BST depending on what you're fighting is...so much effort ? pretty much the same most close combat classes put forth, need to consider AE's, positioning and when to use CA's and temps and time them with your grp/raid members. 

Don't see the hard part that justifies being an own league in terms of putting out dmg.

 edit.

 to add that letting poison critical again is another way to boost non-beastlord scouts.

Sure you wouldn't mind that, considering the currently most potent direct dmg poison is actually usable by BST. The gods of Norrath know why....

 oh and would like to add that if there's a beastlord in my assassins group, he gets toxins because i want to increase our groups dps not nerf it.

and your point being ... ?

[Davngr1]

Proud_Silence wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Proud_Silence wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 assassin can already keep up with beastlords on single target fights as far as i have seen.     the int line proc does about the same damage as the swipe proc when used correctly, it's just that most players don't have that skill set and thus this change would aid that also let it proc on multiple mobs at once. 

 assassin aoe's benefiting FFU would give that ability a big boost on aoe encounters.  maybe you should study your parses, abilities and how they all work before posting against my suggestions also you could post some suggestions of your own.

- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class.  See the fundamental flaw in this ?

- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion;  if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.

- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter

- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:

Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonus

Rogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/Pot

Sorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/Pot

Summoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with pet

Yep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...

 devs will never make those changes and that's a good thing because everything you suggest is braindead faceroll damage increases. 

Hint: irony

 i suggest adding different mechanics to boost damage IF the player is willing to put forth the effort.

Because figuring out appropriate rotations as BST depending on what you're fighting is...so much effort ? pretty much the same most close combat classes put forth, need to consider AE's, positioning and when to use CA's and temps and time them with your grp/raid members. 

Don't see the hard part that justifies being an own league in terms of putting out dmg.

 edit.

 to add that letting poison critical again is another way to boost non-beastlord scouts.

Sure you wouldn't mind that, considering the currently most potent direct dmg poison is actually usable by BST. The gods of Norrath know why....

 oh and would like to add that if there's a beastlord in my assassins group, he gets toxins because i want to increase our groups dps not nerf it.

and your point being ... ?

look guy..

 you seem like one of those "i'm so 1337" raiderzzz types..

     yes, beastlord isn't any harder to play than other dps classes but it's not any easier and yes i do agree that they are doing too much damage over other T1 classes.   

  the reason i made this thread is because i rather them stay right where they are and other dps classes get new toys because new abilities and way to tweak out my damage classes is fun.

   to all you "i'm so 1337" raiderzzzz posting your "you don't know I KNOW" b*llS**t..   

 uhmm..  the beastlords doing this insane damage have MYTHICAL WEAPONS no other class in game right now has those and when they do i'm sure they will catch up but even with mythical weapons for all, other T1 classes need a boost and actually i think summoners should just be T1 as well since they don't really offer that much more utility than anyone or anything else.