EverQuest II Achievement System

[Rothgar]

If you’ve played any games on Xbox Live, Steam or the PS3, then you should be familiar with an achievement system that allows you to compare your in-game accomplishments with other players.  We’ve discussed adding a system like this to EQII for quite some time and today we’d like to announce that this system will be coming soon. How does the Achievement System work?EverQuest II will start off with hundreds of achievements in all areas of game play.  These will include achievements related to combat, tradeskills, exploration, harvesting, you name it!  Similar to the quest system, the game will recognize when you do something that updates an achievement.  When you’ve completed all the requirements for an achievement, you and the players around you will be notified of your accomplishment.  Some achievements might even reward you with titles or other items.  Each achievement will have a point value based on the difficulty of earning the achievement.  Your overall point score will serve as a quick method of comparing your accomplishments with other players.  You’ll also be able to view the achievements of other players simply by inspecting them.We already have Achievements in the game.  What will the system be called?This has been a source of discussion for quite a long time internally.  We’ve gone through many different names and none of them just feel right to us.  After lots of debate, we felt the best thing for the game, long term, would be to bite the bullet and rename the existing achievement system.  So the existing achievements that you earn through achievement XP will inherit the name from EverQuest Live and become the Alternate Advancement System.  You’ll continue to earn “AA” points the same way, and can spend those points in your “AA” trees.  We hope this will be an easy transition as many players are already familiar with this name.  The new system will be referred to as the Achievement System, and “Achievements” are the badges or trophies that you earn by completing tasks around the world of Norrath.  We also plan on converting the existing “Slayer” quests into the new Achievement System since they are virtually the same concept.

What do you think?Our goal with the Achievement System is to give you another method of progression through the game.  It’s a great system for quantifying your accomplishments and encourages friendly competition between players.  We think this will be a fun addition to EQII and would like to hear your feedback.  So, let us know what you think!

( Below are the answers to some of the questions that have come up since my original post. )

Rewards

As far as rewards, please don't get hung up on them and if they'll be game-breaking or not.  We plan on giving rewards for achievements very sparingly.  The main reward of the achievement is the completion of the task.  We already have a quest system that is designed to reward you for specific deeds.  The achievement system is there to track the types of things you'd be doing anyway, like completing quests, killing mobs, clearing zones, etc.  So the reward *IS* is the achievement and the points you earn towards your total. 

Now, with that disclaimer out of the way, some achievements will offer you rewards.  And yes, some of them will be titles.  Whether you find titles pointless or not is up to you.  Some people like them and they are a nice way to show off something you've done.  However, some achievements might be appropriate for rewarding something else, especially if the achievement is difficult to complete.  You can most likely expect those rewards to be things such as house items and maybe appearance armor or fluff spells/pets.

Will achievements be retroactive?

Some achievements will be retroactive.  Any achievement requiring quest completion will check your quest journal the first time you log in after the achievement system is added.  Achievements that require mob kills or exploration events that we track through the AA system will also count towards your achievement progress.  Existing slayer quests will be converted to achievements and your kill progress will be retained.

How can you see the list of achievements?

The quest journal will have a new achievements tab that will display all achievements (completed and not completed) by category.  You will also be able to see your progress towards each achievement.  In addition, we are modifying the inspection window so you'll be able to see the achievements of other players when you inspect them.

Are you accepting ideas for achievements?

Sure, but no promises that we'll use it.    If you're going to suggest some achievements, please follow these guidelines to make them easy for us to spot later on.  Limit the text to 1 line per achievement and put them in a bulleted list.  Use a light-blue color to separate them from the rest of your text.  For Example:

• Kill 10,000 gnolls
• Complete every 'daily double' mission in The Shadow Odyssey.
• Craft 10,000 items

[Deson]

Dig it as long as the rewards stay fluff.

[Cele]

Interesting. 

[Dragowulf]

I already call it AAs...I was not aware that it was Achievements prior to this change.

Maybe because I'm an EQ Classic vet?

[Noaani]

Rothgar wrote:

Some achievements might even reward you with titles or other items.  

While I like the general idea of this, it really hinges on the quoted part, and more specifically the bolded.

I do not want/expect to see anyone getting mythicals or anything out of this, but this has potential as a means to award items that are to be kept rare, but not necessarily kept to raiders.

I would love to see the second best mount for each class avalible via this system (best being a raid drop), I'd love to see getting a specific set of tradeskill and exploration achievements provide the character with a new recipe or two, I'd love to see clearing a hard zone with no deaths provide extra reward to the group/raid.

Until more info is avalible, I can't really think of much more to add.

[Noaani]

Deson wrote:

Dig it as long as the rewards stay fluff.

Since it is a representation of a players actions in game, and is only able to be completed once, assuming appropriate tasks are required I see no issue with providing a real reward.

I mean, clearing PoF with no deaths for the first time on a toon is an appropriate task for having a spell upgraded to master level, imo.

[ashen1973]

not 100% sure I like the points system, but I do like the rest of the idea. As an ex-SWG player, collecting badges there was one of the things i really enjoyed and I was proud of the many I managed to achieve. What types of things do you envisage using? And, if these things have already been accomplished, will the achievments be retroactive? Some ideas I would like to see achievments for Quests completed 'Special' quests completed (i.e heritage, Signature, L+L) named boss's killed Server discoveries (As a Euro player,i wouldnt like to see world-wide discos counted here, just server disco's, as we are at a disadvantage due to later time of updates) Instances cleared ( 'grey' zones should not count towards this)

[Pitt Hammerfi]

Sounds great, unique items as rewards would be great too. Why the guy above me wants only fluff items as rewards is beyond me, everyone has the same chance of obtaining the unlocks so why couldn't the items be good ?

Would you introduce a journal to tick checks off as you go ? or would they remain hidden till you did one ?

Would they be retroactive ?

SOE could add any item they wanted as a reward, as long as the Reward matched the Achievemnt, Killing Every Avatar Acheivement could quite easily reward something better than the current mythical weapon.

Hailing 1000 NPC's maybe not so good to reward a mythical, i mean c'mon seriously...

Some Examples of Acheivements:

Collecting a certain amount of mounts.

Killing every Named in certain dungeons/open dungeons.

Obtaining a certain amount of gold.

Harvesting a certain amount of rares.

Discovery points found.

Number of a certain type of mob killed.

Armor Sets collected.

NPC's Hailed.

Quests Completed.

Number of Paintings Collected.

Number of Collection quests completed.

Shineys harvested.

etc etc I'm sure you could look at Warhammer Online's Tome of Knowledge for some ideas.

[ashen1973]

Noaani wrote:

Rothgar wrote:

Some achievements might even reward you with titles or other items.  

While I like the general idea of this, it really hinges on the quoted part, and more specifically the bolded.

I do not want/expect to see anyone getting mythicals or anything out of this, but this has potential as a means to award items that are to be kept rare, but not necessarily kept to raiders.

I would love to see the second best mount for each class avalible via this system (best being a raid drop), I'd love to see getting a specific set of tradeskill and exploration achievements provide the character with a new recipe or two, I'd love to see clearing a hard zone with no deaths provide extra reward to the group/raid.

Until more info is avalible, I can't really think of much more to add.

To me, the rewards are not important, its the act of gaining the achievments that is the fun thing here.

That being said, if rewards are beign given, i agree, the majority should be fluff, but those achievments that are very difficult to accomplish (like the clearing PoF example given)  would deserve something more.

i don't agree with the specific example, given by Noaani, that the best mounts should be for raiders only. I do agree that the best weapons. armour, even potions and poisons, should be restricted to the raiders as they are the ones facing the hardest foes and need the edge these items give, but stuff like mounts are of use to everyone, not just raiders, and such the best should be available, not easy to get by any means but available, to everyone.

[Deson]

Noaani wrote:

Deson wrote:

Dig it as long as the rewards stay fluff.

Since it is a representation of a players actions in game, and is only able to be completed once, assuming appropriate tasks are required I see no issue with providing a real reward.

I mean, clearing PoF with no deaths for the first time on a toon is an appropriate task for having a spell upgraded to master level, imo.

Once you start giving useful rewards, it's hard to draw lines. Just look at LoN loot cards. Plus, once they stop being fluff they start being required and it starts to suck the fun out of the game and the uniqueness of the accomplishements as everyone fights to do them because of the rewards.

[Grobi]

sounds interresting to me , only thing im wondering if i have to do the content all over again to get the points for lets say slaying nameds or doing quests ? if there points questrelated than most older chars cant get them anymore otherwise.

rewardwise i would like to see maybe spezial armor apperance pieces or mounts.

[Noaani]

Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote:

i don't agree with the specific example, given by Noaani, that the best mounts should be for raiders only.

With GU#52, mounts persist through death. This makes them nothing more than an item that has a buff you are able to activate and maintain while it is in your bags.

The best "looking" mount can come from anywhere, that would not concern me at all. A mount with a speed equal to that of any raid dropped mount can come from a long questline or from a heroic encounter, that also wouldn't bother me. If a mount with better combat stats than one avalible from raids begins to be avalible in any non raid manner, that would bother me.

[Kordran]

Pitt Hammerfist wrote:

NPC's Hailed.

I guess this could be good for comic relief for the first week after the new system is released.

[feldon30]

Some example achievements: * Defeating a group or raid zone on HARD setting. * Completing a certain number of Heritage Quests * Replacement for existing Slayer poster/titles system * Clearing older zones while mentored (or naturally) at that level.

[Deson]

Kordran wrote:

Pitt Hammerfist wrote:

NPC's Hailed.

I guess this could be good for comic relief for the first week after the new system is released.

You already get a master a month for it!

[Yimway]

I suggested it 4-5 months ago.  I would like some details though.

Sample events that are achievements?

How do we know what achievements are out there?  Will we have an achievement journal? 

Will an item add to the achievement journal once we've completed some minor requirement? For example, killing 100 orcs triggers the orc slayer achievement to show in the achievement journal?

Seriously, can't we pick a better name? Deeds? Accomplishments? Titles? Pagentry? Something?

What are the rewards of accomplishing the achievement?  Will it still just be AUT (another useless tittle)?  Or will we garnish special abilities vs that creature type, in that specific zone, gear with textures related to the zone/creature, or other possible uniqueness rewards?

I look forward to additional characterization and specialization tasks that a system like this can add to the game, but I'm looking for alot more detail in the vision.

Thanks,

Atan

[Noaani]

Deson wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Deson wrote:

Dig it as long as the rewards stay fluff.

Since it is a representation of a players actions in game, and is only able to be completed once, assuming appropriate tasks are required I see no issue with providing a real reward.

I mean, clearing PoF with no deaths for the first time on a toon is an appropriate task for having a spell upgraded to master level, imo.

Once you start giving useful rewards, it's hard to draw lines. Just look at LoN loot cards. Plus, once they stop being fluff they start being required and it starts to suck the fun out of the game and the uniqueness of the accomplishements as everyone fights to do them because of the rewards.

It depends on what the rewards are.

If its just a list of rewards, and as you hit a number of achievments you get the next one down, then yeah, they need to stick to fluff. If, however, they group several achievements up in to specific groups, like say all of the tradeskill and exploration achievements being in one group, completing each of the TSO zones with no deaths being in one group, and hailing 1,000 diffrent NPCs being in a group along with having a specific number of paintings, then it seems to me as if some groupings of achievements call out for different reward types.

The fluff type rewards are still able to be kept rare, simply by requireing things that most people simply don't do. It means those that want the reward are able to put in the effort of finding 1,000 unique hailable NPCs, and as a result get the title "Master Conversationalist" or whatever.

[Lantis]

I like the idea.

A suggestion: why not use this opportunity to appease the masses who are in uproar against a lot of the rewards available exclusively through Station Cash or LoN, and provide some of those item rewards as new Achievement Rewards?

Otherwise, I'd be fine with the reward being more than just fluff, because, they would be rewards earned through actual game play just the same as what you'd get from completing a quest.

[Huntress Jellica]

Are these Achievements going to be retroactive? If there's an Achievement for completing 25 Heritage Quests, or for completing 1,000 normal quests, or having 200 completed collections, etc, it would be hard to complete those feats again.

Sounds like a fun idea though, looking forward to seeing how it will pan out.

[Yimway]

Huntress Jellica wrote:

Are these Achievements going to be retroactive? If there's an Achievement for completing 25 Heritage Quests, or for completing 1,000 normal quests, or having 200 completed collections, etc, it would be hard to complete those feats again.

Sounds like a fun idea though, looking forward to seeing how it will pan out.

It should be more specific.

Commonlands Expert should involve completing say 50 quests in commonlands, and the reward would be 10% base damage increase when in zone Commonlands.

[shadowgate]

Like the idea but they have to be able to give people credit for the ones that can't be redone that people have already accomplished at the very least like doing all the HQs. I know some of this data wouldnt be available but as much as is should be grandfathered in. CoH did this when they added thier badges. 

[Rothgar]

The major questions I'm seeing so far are related to rewards and if the achievements will be retroactive.

Rewards

As far as rewards, please don't get hung up on them and if they'll be game-breaking or not.  We plan on giving rewards for achievements very sparingly.  The main reward of the achievement is the completion of the task.  We already have a quest system that is designed to reward you for specific deeds.  The achievement system is there to track the types of things you'd be doing anyway, like completing quests, killing mobs, clearing zones, etc.  So the reward *IS* is the achievement and the points you earn towards your total. 

Now, with that disclaimer out of the way, some achievements will offer you rewards.  And yes, some of them will be titles.  Whether you find titles pointless or not is up to you.  Some people like them and they are a nice way to show off something you've done.  However, some achievements might be appropriate for rewarding something else, especially if the achievement is difficult to complete.  You can most likely expect those rewards to be things such as house items and maybe appearance armor or fluff spells/pets.

Will achievements be retroactive?

Achievements will only be retroactive if you would otherwise not be able to complete that achievement.  So for example, all achievements related to quests will be retroactive because you cannot complete those quests again.  Slayer quests that are converted to achievements will also be retroactive because we're already tracking that data and we don't want you to lose your progress.  However, exploration events, boss mob kills, etc will require that you do them again.

How can you see the list of achievements?

The quest journal will have a new achievements tab that will display all achievements (completed and not completed) by category.  You will also be able to see your progress towards each achievement.  In addition, we are modifying the inspection window so you'll be able to see the achievements of other players when you inspect them.

[Dollin]

I like the idea.. Xbox 360 Achievements are fun to get, keeps you tied to a game a little longer then you normally work or gets you to play thru it multiple times. As long as some of them are tied to things in old world to make ppl go back and do some of the things it should be fun to do..

1 point tho. Doesn't Microsoft hold some kind of something over the "Achievement System" which is why Sony went with Trophies for the PS3? Might want to check out naming issues with that before you go full bore into the name of it.

[Deson]

Rothgar wrote:

The major questions I'm seeing so far are related to rewards and if the achievements will be retroactive.

Rewards

As far as rewards, please don't get hung up on them and if they'll be game-breaking or not.  We plan on giving rewards for achievements very sparingly.  The main reward of the achievement is the completion of the task.  We already have a quest system that is designed to reward you for specific deeds.  The achievement system is there to track the types of things you'd be doing anyway, like completing quests, killing mobs, clearing zones, etc.  So the reward *IS* is the achievement and the points you earn towards your total. 

Now, with that disclaimer out of the way, some achievements will offer you rewards.  And yes, some of them will be titles.  Whether you find titles pointless or not is up to you.  Some people like them and they are a nice way to show off something you've done.  However, some achievements might be appropriate for rewarding something else, especially if the achievement is difficult to complete.  You can most likely expect those rewards to be things such as house items and maybe appearance armor or fluff spells/pets.

Will achievements be retroactive?

Achievements will only be retroactive if you would otherwise not be able to complete that achievement.  So for example, all achievements related to quests will be retroactive because you cannot complete those quests again.  Slayer quests that are converted to achievements will also be retroactive because we're already tracking that data and we don't want you to lose your progress.  However, exploration events, boss mob kills, etc will require that you do them again.

How can you see the list of achievements?

The quest journal will have a new achievements tab that will display all achievements (completed and not completed) by category.  You will also be able to see your progress towards each achievement.  In addition, we are modifying the inspection window so you'll be able to see the achievements of other players when you inspect them.

You already answered everything I could ask or complain about. I still don't like the ambiguity of the bolded but I understand the need to not speak in absolutes. Thank you.

[Huntress Jellica]

Rothgar wrote:

The major questions I'm seeing so far are related to rewards and if the achievements will be retroactive.

Will achievements be retroactive?

Achievements will only be retroactive if you would otherwise not be able to complete that achievement.  So for example, all achievements related to quests will be retroactive because you cannot complete those quests again.  Slayer quests that are converted to achievements will also be retroactive because we're already tracking that data and we don't want you to lose your progress.  However, exploration events, boss mob kills, etc will require that you do them again.

Thanks, Rothgar, that's what I was hoping to hear. I have no problem going back and killing Varsoon again (and again..) but missing out on an Achievement cause I like to collect things would suck!

[Maroger]

Rothgar wrote:

Will achievements be retroactive?

 However, exploration events, boss mob kills, etc will require that you do them again.

Will new exploration events still continue to account towards achievement AA - the most important achievement there is.

If we have to redo exploration events do we have to mentor down to get AA's or not? Currently you don't.

[Foolsfolly]

I'm happy with house-trophies and titles.

But what I would really like to see, is fluff-equipment. Kill 10,000 gnolls, get an appearance-only weapon that looks like a stick with a bloody gnoll-head mounted on the end of it. Kill 10,000 frogloks, get some shoes and gloves that look like big webbed feet/hands. There are many possibilities =]

[BCasto21]

Rothgar wrote:

Will achievements be retroactive?

... However, exploration events, boss mob kills, etc will require that you do them again.

Why is this exactly?  You know exactly which names we have killed and which locations we have visited as long as we have done them since the Achievement Alternate Advancement System was implemented. 

[interstellarmatter]

So, this works just like the Achievement system in WoW?

[Xalmat]

Dragowulf@Nagafen wrote:

I already call it AAs...I was not aware that it was Achievements prior to this change.

Maybe because I'm an EQ Classic vet?

Yeah, most of us EQ1 vets called them AAs anyway (It rolls off the tongue better than APs or Achievements, imo). Which is one of the reasons for the name change, because people already call them that anyway.

BCasto21 wrote:

Rothgar wrote:

Will achievements be retroactive?

... However, exploration events, boss mob kills, etc will require that you do them again.

Why is this exactly?  You know exactly which names we have killed and which locations we have visited as long as we have done them since the Achievement Alternate Advancement System was implemented. 

I believe they can be retroactive, but they don't want them to be retroactive. I believe the reasoning is, anything that can be done again, should be done again. Things that cannot be done again (like completing certain quests) will be retroactive.

I don't see the issue. It's no different than guild hall trophies: If you want the trophy, even if you killed the mob in the past, go kill the mob again.