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Old 09-12-2007, 05:47 PM   #79
matt2004

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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 194
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baasfvaer wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Paragraphs bloated with doom and gloom and how EQ2 PvP is worthless yet not one suggestion on how to change it...?!?!?
Interesting how you try to disparage but offer nothing substantive.  It is easy to attempt to dismiss something with an off the cuff one sentence remark, but you might be surprised how many people actually expect you to support your point of view.  You may want to try to refute things rather than simply disparage them.  Of course if you can't actually muster up any sort of refutation I understand.You want solutions?  1) Make track only show that a person is near and never lead you directly to someone, ie. no waypoint functionality.2) A PvP death in a zone which your faction does not control should zone you back to your capital city and lock you out of that zone for 30 minutes.  If your faction does control it should work as it does now.   Resurrections are not limited by this rule, ie. death of half your group should be recoverable.3) CC should probably have some sort of diminishing returns.4) the gear power gap should be less.  Some of this is just old PvE stuff.  Kelethin quest rewards are way better than Ant ones 70% of the time.  But there should never be complete one vs one dominance.  Severe disadvantge is fine, but if someone feels like there is nothing they can do, then they will have no fun.5) CA/spell progression needs to be reworked.  A prime example is the fury M2 nuke at 24.  Are furies overpowered?  I won't get into that debate but the difference between a level 22 fury and level 24 fury is just plain crazy.6) the fame/faction system needs some changing, farming NPCs is fine.  Farming players trivializes PvP.  People don't need an excuse to gank, they will do it anyway.  Never underestimate petty malice.  Ganking adds no value to PvP.  It is by definition shooting fish in a barrel.  The current system encourages and rewards ganking.  Therefore it encourages and rewards trivial play.  This is a fairly complex issue but one thing that may work well:      A large group with an overwhelming numerical advantage (say +3) should get no fame or faction or drops except in an area your faction controls.        This is a trivial encounter.  Triviality should not be rewarded.  The faction part is to encourage policing.  Will this make everyone fight with 6 people       together but ungrouped?  Maybe.  But then they miss any group buffs and group only powers.  And there are other ways around that problem.      I would go so far as to give fame/faction for defeating a person with lesser amounts of aa/lower tier gear.  However I know that implementating such a       thing would be problematic.  But still I would trade these problems if it leads to less amount of trivial PvP encounters.   I think meaningful PvP is what most       truly want.        If some people think its fun to go around slaughter people and I know some people do then fine let them do it.  But if greys give no rewards in PvE then        why does something that is essentially gray give a nice reward in PvP?  This has even worse consequences in PvP than PvE, because NPCs can't stop       playing.7) There needs to be a "parley" function.  This should allow a group leader from one faction to chat with a group leader from another.  It should have time constraints like mentoring, ie. it take a minute to setup and also will close down after a few minutes and only be usable with the same person on a limited basis (say twice an hour).  This is useful in neutral zones because sometimes you may both need something there and flat out killing each other is just not worth it to either one of you and could be avoided by diplomacy.  You could also lie and and betray them if you like.  Why do I say this, because once again many times you simply get chaos in zones.  Chaos gets boring after a while.  Add in a Chaos/order dynamic and it gets far more interesting.  It also adds an aspect of social dynamics.SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> I actually have no problem with level locking.  I consider it a symptom and a hacked solution for a messed up situation.        I know #2 is probably not popular and frankly it would make aa hunting in DLW far harder for my guy than it is now.  But right now there is no real way for players to police a zone.  Most FFA PvP games convienently disregard the idea of police and law and order.  That is why you get what is generally considered in the real world criminal behavior in these games.  They leave it up to the players to "police themselves".  But guess what policing is a thankless and painstaking job and this is a game.  You can't consider this stuff in a vaccum.  Even if a person can't win a hopeless fight against a twink they will feel much better about things if they can call in the cavalry and it has some effect.  I know there are people in Ant who go around and kill the gankers, but I only shout stuff to help them out.  I know their efforts do me almost no good.  And for me personally the chaos in a place like Fallen Gate or Stormhold is just annoying.  I'd rather have it harder to get to the non-faction one and really have to ninja the place than just have it be the perpetual unproductive brawl it is now.There are two major problem with EQ2 PvP:1) A large amount of trivial PvP play.  Too much ganking, too many situations where you are helpless, and too many important tactical things invalidated by PvE features (such as tracking).2) no real control or policing.  People try yeah, but they simply don't have the game tools/features to make it stick in any real way.  Why call a twink friend to come take care of someone, they can just come back.  Your friend must stay with you constantly as it stands now. 

Please dont let some of the attitudes here discourage you from posting. I agree with everything you have said 100%. They say they crave danger and if they call this "danger" they havent ever played a quality pvp game. Tracking does trivialize things to an extent there is not even a use to try anymore. whats the point?

i really hope your words dont fall on deaf ears because it was "too long". The simple mindedness of some of these so called "professional pvp'ers" astounds me. I really enjoyed reading your posts and hope you comment again in the future because clearly, the people that feel the way we do...dont speak up enough.

I started a thread a few weeks ago about the power of the fury in those level ranges. I was met with 90% of players disagreeing with me, acting totally clueless to the whole situation. Flaming, namecalling etc and then they turn around and tell others to "grow up" and "learn the system". Why would anyone want to learn this system when its a total waste of time?

Why would a new player stick with the trouble he goes through knowing that he will be one of "them" in 3 weeks? Its boring, mindless and your so right when you say whats the point? I have done what you have described so many times..just stand there and wait till its over. There is no point to fight back...you could be the most skilled pvp'er in the world and coming into this game you have snowballs chance in hell to even defend your self....

I dont think you all understand when we say new players are not asking for a "win" button. But to only have the chance to even fight back is asking to much? You all claim to have so much skill but every time someone offers a great suggestion you just shoot it down like a bad idea lol. So...why keep offering suggestions?

Every single time a discussion starts getting good and smart intelligence has seen the post and weighed in on the subject another child comes into the discussion and starts saying rude things so the whole post is locked....

Why do they lock the whole post and not just delete the post that said bad things? I can tell you why. It makes the issue go away for a few days untill someone brings it up again. SoE worked for years on this game, i doubt they want to see it just fall to the side. The pvp population in MMOs is now great as, or even greater than the old pve crowds. People like fighting people and like to feel they at least have a chance on the outcome of the battle.

When they have no chance to change the outcome, no matter what they do...why even play? And twinking yourself also is not a solution, it adds to the problem. It doesnt matter if your a twink or not, trust me. The pvp has no meaning and no thought. I really hope SoE comments soon on this situation. You my friend have opened my eyes even more on the whole sour bad tasting issue and i will also vote with my feet soon.

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