EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire - View Single Post - GU60 PvP Changes now on TEST-COPY

Proud_Silence · 05-20-2011, 07:38 AM

Exur@Nagafen wrote:

Olihin wrote:
PvP Mentoring

Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first.
Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat.
You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring.
Olihin
Sorry Olihin, I just can't let this one go. Not sure why, since I don't even play lower tier PvP... but I just know this is a problem. Just curious why the following changes were made in the past?
Live Update #21: March 23, 2006http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253085*** Player-versus-Player ***- You can now mentor only in instances on PvP servers.
What was the reason they decided to disable mentoring in open or contested zones on PvP servers back then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Seems like this was a quick fix to stop people from exploiting mentoring in PvP.
Live Update #22: April 13, 2006http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253092*** Player-versus-Player ***- There is now a 60-second countdown that begins when you elect to mentor another player. While it is in progress, moving or casting a spell will cancel the countdown. Mentoring will begin if the countdown is completed without interruption.- While mentoring, you may not make hostile acts against another player or player pet, nor can you perform beneficial actions upon any player or player pet that is hated by another player.
Ok, so just under a month later they provide a solution to mentoring on a PvP Server.... since you just can't take away the option in open or contested zones. Why was there a 60-second countdown added? Was there a concern people would exploit the instant enable/disable mentoring option in PvP? Why was the decision made to completely disable hostile actions or perform beneficial actions when mentored? Could they not have allow a "fight back" option then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Was this to prevent people from exploiting mentoring in PvP?
Fast forward to GU60. Has mentored PvP combat changed in anyway since 2006? If it's been balanced correctly for PvP combat and I'm just not aware of it, please let me know. If nothing has changed, then you see problem, right? 5 years later and the mentoring gap has increased to introduct even better gear, abilities and AA's to "attempt" to scale down. Someone saw a problem back in 2006, so I just need to confirm... as it will be even worse in 2011. It will be exploited again. This attempt to help 1% will mess with the remaining 99%.
I actually like the statement that was made when chronomagic mentoring was introduced September 23, 2009:
-Chronomagic works the same on PvP servers as it does on PvE servers. However, it also has all the same restrictions as mentoring—namely that you cannot engage in PvP combat while the chronomagic effect is on your character. This makes it quite a bit more dangerous on PvP servers, so good luck and be careful!
Thanks!

THIS !!

Changing mentoring system to fight back is not needed, it will not benefit anyone except the ones exploiting it. There was nothing wrong with current system !

it was said before, mentoring is a PVE tool to provide options to complete PVE content and it's not working AT ALL in regards to pvp mechanics.

Already now it's a pain in the butt to level up somewhere and suddenly a 90 Paladin mentored to 40 runs past you and wipes out the entire zone. now this is how it was now and how it will be after this ill-thought out changes:

- BEFORE: i can try to attack the mentored person, forcing pvp mechanics upon him in hopes it will slow down the mob slaughtering. Anyone who ever met a mentored paladin knows how good the chances are to stop him/her from annihilating every mob in the zone

- AFTER : I have one, maybe two options: leave the zone and go somewhere else. if i attack the mentored person i might as well jump off a cliff to my death. I call in help (pvp solution?lol) ...odds are, the mentored person will still own the whole group of actual level toons.

I've seen a few threads about people crying about how unfair it is they can't fight back in pvp while mentored. I've always regarded them as not very bright and the typical "give me give me now" type of crowd that's lurking around more and more these days. Any competent dev would be able to think further then 30 seconds ahead in time and realize what kind of consquences such a change will bring. So i thought.

05-20-2011, 07:38 AM	#87
Proud_Silence Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 342	Exur@Nagafen wrote: Olihin wrote: PvP Mentoring Players grouped with mentors cannot attack other players unless they are attacked first. Mentored players can cast beneficial spells while in PVP combat. You can now attack a target based on his actual level. This means if you mentor you will still be attackable by anyone who could attack you before mentoring. Olihin Sorry Olihin, I just can't let this one go. Not sure why, since I don't even play lower tier PvP... but I just know this is a problem. Just curious why the following changes were made in the past? Live Update #21: March 23, 2006http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253085* Player-versus-Player *- You can now mentor only in instances on PvP servers. What was the reason they decided to disable mentoring in open or contested zones on PvP servers back then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Seems like this was a quick fix to stop people from exploiting mentoring in PvP. Live Update #22: April 13, 2006http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=253092* Player-versus-Player - There is now a 60-second countdown that begins when you elect to mentor another player. While it is in progress, moving or casting a spell will cancel the countdown. Mentoring will begin if the countdown is completed without interruption.- While mentoring, you may not make hostile acts against another player or player pet, nor can you perform beneficial actions upon any player or player pet that is hated by another player. Ok, so just under a month later they provide a solution to mentoring on a PvP Server.... since you just can't take away the option in open or contested zones. Why was there a 60-second countdown added? Was there a concern people would exploit the instant enable/disable mentoring option in PvP? Why was the decision made to completely disable hostile actions or perform beneficial actions when mentored? Could they not have allow a "fight back" option then? Was mentored PvP combat not balanced or over powered in anyway? Was this to prevent people from exploiting mentoring in PvP? Fast forward to GU60. Has mentored PvP combat changed in anyway since 2006? If it's been balanced correctly for PvP combat and I'm just not aware of it, please let me know. If nothing has changed, then you see problem, right? 5 years later and the mentoring gap has increased to introduct even better gear, abilities and AA's to "attempt" to scale down. Someone saw a problem back in 2006, so I just need to confirm... as it will be even worse in 2011. It will be exploited again. This attempt to help 1% will mess with the remaining 99%. I actually like the statement that was made when chronomagic mentoring was introduced September 23, 2009: -Chronomagic works the same on PvP servers as it does on PvE servers. However, it also has all the same restrictions as mentoring—namely that you cannot engage in PvP combat while the chronomagic effect is on your character. This makes it quite a bit more dangerous on PvP servers, so good luck and be careful! Thanks! THIS !! Changing mentoring system to fight back is not needed*, it will not benefit anyone except the ones exploiting it. There was nothing wrong with current system ! it was said before, mentoring is a PVE tool to provide options to complete PVE content and it's not working AT ALL in regards to pvp mechanics. Already now it's a pain in the butt to level up somewhere and suddenly a 90 Paladin mentored to 40 runs past you and wipes out the entire zone. now this is how it was now and how it will be after this ill-thought out changes: - BEFORE: i can try to attack the mentored person, forcing pvp mechanics upon him in hopes it will slow down the mob slaughtering. Anyone who ever met a mentored paladin knows how good the chances are to stop him/her from annihilating every mob in the zone - AFTER : I have one, maybe two options: leave the zone and go somewhere else. if i attack the mentored person i might as well jump off a cliff to my death. I call in help (pvp solution?lol) ...odds are, the mentored person will still own the whole group of actual level toons. I've seen a few threads about people crying about how unfair it is they can't fight back in pvp while mentored. I've always regarded them as not very bright and the typical "give me give me now" type of crowd that's lurking around more and more these days. Any competent dev would be able to think further then 30 seconds ahead in time and realize what kind of consquences such a change will bring. So i thought.