EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire - View Single Post

LivelyHound · 11-22-2010, 04:52 PM

Pavahac@Guk wrote:

You still don't get it. What a snobish attitude. You can come up with all the math you want but the experience and the
way people play does not calculate into your math. You also forgot about the one that fights you and can take over a
minute to make. To sit there and button mash doing the same recipe over and over for very little profit is tedious.

So in other words you cant disprove or counter any of my points.

It may come across as snobbish, or maybe that just being informed. Either way it doesn't negate the facts.

IF you are in it for profit according to your last comment, then asking for increased quantity per combine will destroy what little profit there is in tradeskilling as a provisioner.

If you really meant what you said about experience then you would be arguing for potion combines to be more than 10 a go and weaponsmiths adorns to be more than 2 a go and so on... as those crafts are far worse off as I already pointed out, but no you are only looking at provisioning. To your point on sitting there on one recipe being tedious. The difference between on recipe and another is text and an icon. The action of the combine is the same, the experience is almost identical. The tedium comes from making many combines, whether you be lvling or making broker items, or writs, or food. Provos at least get the chance to make their combines quicker than scholars and outfitters, saving them time in the long run on the same number of combines.

As to your initial comment of: "[i] just don't get it". Really? I'm fairly sure I get it, people are bored by making food for others and their alts, they would rather be adventuring and doing 10 combines instead of 1 which is just too much! See my inital post on that. It's a people thing, not a problem with the tradeskill. If that's you then go adventure and what terron just said. Of course maybe I don't get it, and if that is the case instead of taking attitude with it. Explain it. Then you might get your point across and move the discussion forward.

As to the "one combine that fights you taking over a minute", I didn't forget them, they just happen so rarely at max level as to be inconsequential and not worth mentioning. I would suggest if you are having a lot of combines to do, i.e. provisioning raid force food, and find this happens to you a lot, that you possibly invest a very little time to get the basic crafting gear. It is there and was added for a reason. With a modicum of gear no combine will ever fight you for over a minute. With all the gear you would be hard pushed to make an 8 tick combine taking you over 30secs. Furthermore, even if you are experiencing those, the number that you come across can't be more than 1 in 40 or 50. And if they really bother you take brell as a god, and just zap them to completion.

Of course I am / have been talking about max lvl, the lower levels sure combines will occasionally fight you because your base tick is more important than your arts are, but at high levels the inverse is true and the combine arts are far more important than the base ticks so if the tick fails or not, it really doesnt slow you down that much, if at all. Many combines even with a fail tick will complete in the exact same number of ticks.

A little in-depth info for anyone left reading: Rush writs.

Faster ever 5mins54secs left.Average @ max lvl : 5mins 48ish.

Work it out over the 6 combines and the combines are taking 26 - 28 secs or so. That's before you take out the 20 secs searching for recipes. Much as I described above.

A 1 minute combine is 15 ticks. Base success chance on a tick is around 65%, fails 25%, crits 10%, crit fail less than half of 1 percent. With a few pieces of gear success goes to over 80%. At 20% fail rate you have 3 ticks in 15 fail. Not to mention that if you succesfully counter an event you wont ever have a fail tick unless its a crit fail. These rates were worked out on max level combines when 80 was the max.

Incidentally, I have all the gear and if I put it on I have a 95% success rate without pushing any buttons (excluding active counter ticks). I doubt that can be got higher as I imagine the fail 5% is built in due to diminished returns on gear. However, you can artificially inflate it over that point by succesful counters turning fails into successes. The only one that seems constant is crit fail as impossibly rare, though like buses two always come at once SMILEY

It is possible currently to get around 24% bonus to success and around 10% bonus to crit success and over +100skill.

11-22-2010, 04:52 PM	#48
LivelyHound Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 523	Pavahac@Guk wrote: You still don't get it. What a snobish attitude. You can come up with all the math you want but the experience and the way people play does not calculate into your math. You also forgot about the one that fights you and can take over a minute to make. To sit there and button mash doing the same recipe over and over for very little profit is tedious. So in other words you cant disprove or counter any of my points. It may come across as snobbish, or maybe that just being informed. Either way it doesn't negate the facts. IF you are in it for profit according to your last comment, then asking for increased quantity per combine will destroy what little profit there is in tradeskilling as a provisioner. If you really meant what you said about experience then you would be arguing for potion combines to be more than 10 a go and weaponsmiths adorns to be more than 2 a go and so on... as those crafts are far worse off as I already pointed out, but no you are only looking at provisioning. To your point on sitting there on one recipe being tedious. The difference between on recipe and another is text and an icon. The action of the combine is the same, the experience is almost identical. The tedium comes from making many combines, whether you be lvling or making broker items, or writs, or food. Provos at least get the chance to make their combines quicker than scholars and outfitters, saving them time in the long run on the same number of combines. As to your initial comment of: "[i] just don't get it". Really? I'm fairly sure I get it, people are bored by making food for others and their alts, they would rather be adventuring and doing 10 combines instead of 1 which is just too much! See my inital post on that. It's a people thing, not a problem with the tradeskill. If that's you then go adventure and what terron just said. Of course maybe I don't get it, and if that is the case instead of taking attitude with it. Explain it. Then you might get your point across and move the discussion forward. As to the "one combine that fights you taking over a minute", I didn't forget them, they just happen so rarely at max level as to be inconsequential and not worth mentioning. I would suggest if you are having a lot of combines to do, i.e. provisioning raid force food, and find this happens to you a lot, that you possibly invest a very little time to get the basic crafting gear. It is there and was added for a reason. With a modicum of gear no combine will ever fight you for over a minute. With all the gear you would be hard pushed to make an 8 tick combine taking you over 30secs. Furthermore, even if you are experiencing those, the number that you come across can't be more than 1 in 40 or 50. And if they really bother you take brell as a god, and just zap them to completion. Of course I am / have been talking about max lvl, the lower levels sure combines will occasionally fight you because your base tick is more important than your arts are, but at high levels the inverse is true and the combine arts are far more important than the base ticks so if the tick fails or not, it really doesnt slow you down that much, if at all. Many combines even with a fail tick will complete in the exact same number of ticks. A little in-depth info for anyone left reading: Rush writs. Faster ever 5mins54secs left.Average @ max lvl : 5mins 48ish. Work it out over the 6 combines and the combines are taking 26 - 28 secs or so. That's before you take out the 20 secs searching for recipes. Much as I described above. A 1 minute combine is 15 ticks. Base success chance on a tick is around 65%, fails 25%, crits 10%, crit fail less than half of 1 percent. With a few pieces of gear success goes to over 80%. At 20% fail rate you have 3 ticks in 15 fail. Not to mention that if you succesfully counter an event you wont ever have a fail tick unless its a crit fail. These rates were worked out on max level combines when 80 was the max. Incidentally, I have all the gear and if I put it on I have a 95% success rate without pushing any buttons (excluding active counter ticks). I doubt that can be got higher as I imagine the fail 5% is built in due to diminished returns on gear. However, you can artificially inflate it over that point by succesful counters turning fails into successes. The only one that seems constant is crit fail as impossibly rare, though like buses two always come at once It is possible currently to get around 24% bonus to success and around 10% bonus to crit success and over +100skill.