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MacAll · 12-03-2004, 02:13 AM

This is getting tiresome.

Gronker wrote:

This is important then I'll try and explain again. I don't know where you got 'sitting on the sidelines' from, I just said meleeing was not a good tactic compared to other things for the situations you were talking about. You are the only person talking about people sitting on the sidelines, which I have to assume is another way of saying "casting your most efficient heal" since otherwise you have severe reading comprehension issues. And I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

Why must everything with you people be either/or? You cast a spell, whatever spell you're doing. Let's say you have 5 sec before you need to cast another...what are you doing? If you are not in melee range, with your melee active, you are doing nothing. If you are in melee range, with melee active, you are doing damage. You don't do melee INSTEAD of healing, you do it in addition too, during whatever lulls you might have. Even in the tightest fights, I always seem to fire off some kind of shot between casts. The ones that mocked what tiny melee damage I do obviously consider it pointless (or they wouldn't mock it) and are therefore not doing it. If they're not doing it, between casts, what are they adding to the encounter? Nothing. That was my point.

Now that we have the context, lets examine some of the things you've said. You have been arguing that SS is not a great spell. In fact, given the 5 second cast time you find it advantageous to melee instead. But this really makes no sense. In a battle with an orange++ group mob(s) SS is going to run out before the end of the battle. Well unless you have a bunch of nukers that go bonkers and hit a few HOs and ... no its still probably going to run out. At least in the orange++ I've fought in, and the fights seem to get longer the higher level you get .. certainly by your lofty level you could probably squeeze in multiple SSs. Ok so we are all happy with "if I cast SS instead of melee sometime significantly enough before the end of battle, it will run out and have healed for full" I hope.

So thats, lets say, 600 damage that could have been healed by SS. Now, you have to heal that at some point .. you aren't going to heal if its not necessary right? Since you aren't using SS, you are using something else - CH? Its less efficient. AND you have to cast .. ~2 of them to get that 600 damage covered. And the casting time is ... hmm thats longer than SS. And its more power (becuase they are less efficient).

You're leaving a few pieces out of the context that I'd included in prior posts. Using your data, add the fact that your tank is being hit for 400hp/hit, and the hits are falling every 3 sec. Now, I can cast SS...5 sec go by, my tank has taken 400 unstopped and is about to take another 400. The 2nd 400 lands and the SS heals 87, so the tank takes 313. Now what do I do? Let's say I stack a BoV in there, so 2 sec go by and when the 3rd 400 lands, 138 and 87 are healed, so the tank takes 175. At this point, my tank has taken 888dmg, in 9 sec.

Now, lets strip out the SS. I lead off with a BoV, which goes off in 2 sec, so the tank takes 400 but 138 is healed in the 3rd sec. I pause for 1 second and start on a CH, seeing how hard the tank is being hit, so in second 6 when he takes 400 again, he is heald 138 from the Bov and 313 from the CH. I pause another second and repeat, so in second 9 the tank takes 400 which is again healed for 138 and 313. I then repeat this process, but lets look at those numbers. In the same 9 seconds, the tank has taken a total net dmg of 160dmg.

Now, how much mana did I spend in the 2 scenarios? In the first, I cast 1 SS and 1 BoV, for 124 + 62 = 186. In the second, I cast 1 BoV and 2 CH's, for 62 + 65x2 = 192. So, in the second scenario, I spent 6 more mana and healed 728hp more dmg.

I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post, and leave you to check my math. BTW, those numbers are from my spells as I made it home for lunch and spent the time doing that checking instead of playing. I'm sure you can bicker over "but what if....", but bottom line, from a dead start, inside the combat, SS is the least effective spell you can cast for healing, except maybe MoP. Ignore time if you want, that's your perogative, but don't lecture me when you have no clue what you're talking about. Even if you quickly slap a CH on the end of scenarion 1, it lowers the 888 dmg your tank has taken to 573 but now you've spent another 65 mana, making your solution cost MORE mana for less healing.

But, but, but....but nothing. You aren't fighting mobs that hit that hard, you don't understand, and won't until you get here, which is why I was using my level as context. I'm not 'better', I'm higher level. It means I've done everything you're doing and more. You'll do it eventually, then you'll understand. Or not. I don't care.

12-03-2004, 02:13 AM	#72
MacAll General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 149	This is getting tiresome. Gronker wrote: This is important then I'll try and explain again. I don't know where you got 'sitting on the sidelines' from, I just said meleeing was not a good tactic compared to other things for the situations you were talking about. You are the only person talking about people sitting on the sidelines, which I have to assume is another way of saying "casting your most efficient heal" since otherwise you have severe reading comprehension issues. And I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Why must everything with you people be either/or? You cast a spell, whatever spell you're doing. Let's say you have 5 sec before you need to cast another...what are you doing? If you are not in melee range, with your melee active, you are doing nothing. If you are in melee range, with melee active, you are doing damage. You don't do melee INSTEAD of healing, you do it in addition too, during whatever lulls you might have. Even in the tightest fights, I always seem to fire off some kind of shot between casts. The ones that mocked what tiny melee damage I do obviously consider it pointless (or they wouldn't mock it) and are therefore not doing it. If they're not doing it, between casts, what are they adding to the encounter? Nothing. That was my point. Now that we have the context, lets examine some of the things you've said. You have been arguing that SS is not a great spell. In fact, given the 5 second cast time you find it advantageous to melee instead. But this really makes no sense. In a battle with an orange++ group mob(s) SS is going to run out before the end of the battle. Well unless you have a bunch of nukers that go bonkers and hit a few HOs and ... no its still probably going to run out. At least in the orange++ I've fought in, and the fights seem to get longer the higher level you get .. certainly by your lofty level you could probably squeeze in multiple SSs. Ok so we are all happy with "if I cast SS instead of melee sometime significantly enough before the end of battle, it will run out and have healed for full" I hope. So thats, lets say, 600 damage that could have been healed by SS. Now, you have to heal that at some point .. you aren't going to heal if its not necessary right? Since you aren't using SS, you are using something else - CH? Its less efficient. AND you have to cast .. ~2 of them to get that 600 damage covered. And the casting time is ... hmm thats longer than SS. And its more power (becuase they are less efficient). You're leaving a few pieces out of the context that I'd included in prior posts. Using your data, add the fact that your tank is being hit for 400hp/hit, and the hits are falling every 3 sec. Now, I can cast SS...5 sec go by, my tank has taken 400 unstopped and is about to take another 400. The 2nd 400 lands and the SS heals 87, so the tank takes 313. Now what do I do? Let's say I stack a BoV in there, so 2 sec go by and when the 3rd 400 lands, 138 and 87 are healed, so the tank takes 175. At this point, my tank has taken 888dmg, in 9 sec. Now, lets strip out the SS. I lead off with a BoV, which goes off in 2 sec, so the tank takes 400 but 138 is healed in the 3rd sec. I pause for 1 second and start on a CH, seeing how hard the tank is being hit, so in second 6 when he takes 400 again, he is heald 138 from the Bov and 313 from the CH. I pause another second and repeat, so in second 9 the tank takes 400 which is again healed for 138 and 313. I then repeat this process, but lets look at those numbers. In the same 9 seconds, the tank has taken a total net dmg of 160dmg. Now, how much mana did I spend in the 2 scenarios? In the first, I cast 1 SS and 1 BoV, for 124 + 62 = 186. In the second, I cast 1 BoV and 2 CH's, for 62 + 65x2 = 192. So, in the second scenario, I spent 6 more mana and healed 728hp more dmg. I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post, and leave you to check my math. BTW, those numbers are from my spells as I made it home for lunch and spent the time doing that checking instead of playing. I'm sure you can bicker over "but what if....", but bottom line, from a dead start, inside the combat, SS is the least effective spell you can cast for healing, except maybe MoP. Ignore time if you want, that's your perogative, but don't lecture me when you have no clue what you're talking about. Even if you quickly slap a CH on the end of scenarion 1, it lowers the 888 dmg your tank has taken to 573 but now you've spent another 65 mana, making your solution cost MORE mana for less healing. But, but, but....but nothing. You aren't fighting mobs that hit that hard, you don't understand, and won't until you get here, which is why I was using my level as context. I'm not 'better', I'm higher level. It means I've done everything you're doing and more. You'll do it eventually, then you'll understand. Or not. I don't care. __________________ __________________________________________________ _ Andrikus Truthbringer - Kerran Inquisitor (48) and Provisioner (50), Befallen If you don't face pain, you won't know fear. If you haven't conquered fear, you will never know the Truth.