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Kale · 03-08-2006, 01:39 AM

Anzak wrote:The main point is that rare crafted should be the entry level gear for raiding in any tier. And No you can not skip tot he mid level raiding by having fabled gear. This means fabled T6 and Legendary (Rare crafted) T7 should be on par. Well, we've gone round and round in this thread, and all I have left to say is I totally disagree with that idea. And apprently the developers do too, so sorry for you.T6 did this right.And I think T6 did it wrong.While These lower level raids could be done in T5 fabled, T6 was better which was wrong. It should have been Equal.Wrong - T5 Fabled should have been better than T6 rare crafted. Not by much, mind you, but enough so that players would not want to replace their Fabled with crafted. You cannot invalidate the Fabled gear or the whole system breaks down. Remember, it is you who brought up the fact that mitigation on on a higher tier's armor isn't the same as mitigation on a lower tier's armor. So you have to have the Fabled be better, not equal. Otherwise you run into the exact situation you had with T6 - people wearing T5 Fabled bought rare T6 crafted as a replacement because it was better. And you can't have that. It invalidates the Fabled gear.What this boils down to is: Players decked out in Fabled should be able to wear that gear until they replace it with the next tier's Fabled. That's how it should work. If casual raiders need equipment to start raiding a Tier, they should be able to buy the rare crafted for that tier and use it effectively. (I think we both agree on that). So the only question now is how one tier's Fabled relates to the next tier's rare crafted. You say they should be equal. I say the Fabled should be *slightly* better, so that those players can keep it until they replace it with better Fabled. They shouldn't feel complelled to buy the rare crafted if they are already wearing Fabled. They should just be able to move forward.The problem here is you seem to think this is ok for the solo/group players. It is ok for groups and soloers. They don't need the Fabled gear to operate. They only need the crafted. The model and the progression worked for the first five tiers. There is no reason it can't continue to work for the rest of the game.The raiders like this because it makes an even bigger divide between them and the casual players. That's not the point - you miss it entirely. The point is that no raider in Fabled gear wants to have to buy rare crafted in between tiers! Get that through your thick head.Going from T5 Fabled -> T6 rare Crafted -> T6 Fabled was dumb. The developers recognized that problem and realized it was because T6 rare Crafted was made too good. Players want every advantage when it comes to raiding. If the crafted is better in any way to their Fabled gear from the previous tier they're going to feel compelled to buy it. And that's just dumb (for heavy raiding folks). As for casual players and those who raid infrequently - they do not lose out in this. The developers have done a good job providing them with opportunities for some Fabled gear in non-raid scenarios (Roost, Table, Icy Digs, etc.) Even when T6 rare crafted is scaled back they are still going to be able to do the early entry raid content for that tier. Couple those early entry raids with instances that drop some Fabled loot, and they will be able to equip begger gear and progress. Not as fast as a Fable-equipped raid guild, but that's the point anyway.

03-08-2006, 01:39 AM	#29
Kale Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 222	Anzak wrote:The main point is that rare crafted should be the entry level gear for raiding in any tier. And No you can not skip tot he mid level raiding by having fabled gear. This means fabled T6 and Legendary (Rare crafted) T7 should be on par. Well, we've gone round and round in this thread, and all I have left to say is I totally disagree with that idea. And apprently the developers do too, so sorry for you.T6 did this right.And I think T6 did it wrong.While These lower level raids could be done in T5 fabled, T6 was better which was wrong. It should have been Equal.Wrong - T5 Fabled should have been better than T6 rare crafted. Not by much, mind you, but enough so that players would not want to replace their Fabled with crafted. You cannot invalidate the Fabled gear or the whole system breaks down. Remember, it is you who brought up the fact that mitigation on on a higher tier's armor isn't the same as mitigation on a lower tier's armor. So you have to have the Fabled be better, not equal. Otherwise you run into the exact situation you had with T6 - people wearing T5 Fabled bought rare T6 crafted as a replacement because it was better. And you can't have that. It invalidates the Fabled gear.What this boils down to is: Players decked out in Fabled should be able to wear that gear until they replace it with the next tier's Fabled. That's how it should work. If casual raiders need equipment to start raiding a Tier, they should be able to buy the rare crafted for that tier and use it effectively. (I think we both agree on that). So the only question now is how one tier's Fabled relates to the next tier's rare crafted. You say they should be equal. I say the Fabled should be slightly better, so that those players can keep it until they replace it with better Fabled. They shouldn't feel complelled to buy the rare crafted if they are already wearing Fabled. They should just be able to move forward.The problem here is you seem to think this is ok for the solo/group players. It is ok for groups and soloers. They don't need the Fabled gear to operate. They only need the crafted. The model and the progression worked for the first five tiers. There is no reason it can't continue to work for the rest of the game.The raiders like this because it makes an even bigger divide between them and the casual players. That's not the point - you miss it entirely. The point is that no raider in Fabled gear wants to have to buy rare crafted in between tiers! Get that through your thick head.Going from T5 Fabled -> T6 rare Crafted -> T6 Fabled was dumb. The developers recognized that problem and realized it was because T6 rare Crafted was made too good. Players want every advantage when it comes to raiding. If the crafted is better in any way to their Fabled gear from the previous tier they're going to feel compelled to buy it. And that's just dumb (for heavy raiding folks). As for casual players and those who raid infrequently - they do not lose out in this. The developers have done a good job providing them with opportunities for some Fabled gear in non-raid scenarios (Roost, Table, Icy Digs, etc.) Even when T6 rare crafted is scaled back they are still going to be able to do the early entry raid content for that tier. Couple those early entry raids with instances that drop some Fabled loot, and they will be able to equip begger gear and progress. Not as fast as a Fable-equipped raid guild, but that's the point anyway.