a6eaq wrote:
Here are a few more statements that will only serve to keep our class down:
Prynn wrote
I believe Fighters stop being fighters after level 20 
Hmmmm, I guess Rangers are no longer scouts when they hit 20 as well, or maybe a Templar stops being a cleric at 20. I hope that was meant to be funny. Otherwise, boy oh boy...
Ok Im not going to get into a debate on this I was stating facts, direct quotes from im interpration of the manual written to help me understand how to play. but I will give you my take on it.
Grummpy wrote:
I beg to differ,
Before i rant, see the archtype all of these fall under. If I am not mistaken, it is the "FIGHTER" what does the description of a fighter say? On page 26? Shall I quote it... ok I will "Fighters stand toe-to-toe with opponents while keeping their allies safe." I guess it really says Guardians vice fighters, Sony must have misprinted it. /sarcasm off for now.
/sarcasm < ignore
"Fighters" are the base, they share ALL THE SAME SKILLS till you define your class(lvl9) its there you choose, what your strengths and weakness will be. again at lvl 19 to a main role.
I will not argue that all fighter types can and should main tank. its insaine to even think of how bad the other classes were besides the guardians Pre-lu13. It was them that were broken, not the guardians, we did it, they couldnt.
the main point, and a solid one, is the guardian was in every way made to be the front meat shield on every mob in the game and for all out beating, the best.
They were just not suppost to be the only one.
in EQ2 the guardian was suppost to be the main tank, the meat shield, the front man, not the only but the best at it. end of story.
EQ2 manual:
Tank types...
Guardian
Guardians can DON THE HEAVIEST OF ARMOR to protect themselves in combat and AID IN DEFENCE OF THERE ALLIES.
The STAND FIRM AGAINST ANY THREAT( since our saves aren't the best, how are we supposed to be the best choice against casters? I thought was where the Crusaders excelled. Oh well read into it what you want to) and BEAR THE BRUNT OF ATTACKS while felling opponents with any of a varitey of weapons. (Hmmmm, you are right, but I still do not see MAIN TANK in this manual for our class. I have been accussed of being blind but what you wrote is a direct quote and I still DO NOT see THE ONLY TANK in there. Sorry, try again.
I really dont know what to say here, pick what you want to add, but please dont see whats not there.
I can add the same points to the rest of the classes.
I saw this "Stand Firm against any threat" "Bear the Brunt of Attacks" DON the heaviest of armor"
the only class that says that, to that degree. Stand Firm agains any threat. Any threat.
Berzerker
Berzerker are chaotic warriors who INFLICT HEAVY DAMAGE(and they have been nerf'd too now don't forget) with all manner of weapons. they protect themselves by wearing HEAVY PLATEMAIL armor. THEIR FURIOUS ATTACKS OVERWHELM THERE OPPONENTS, to whom they show no mercy.
I guess this statement means they can't tank either right? Or since there is NO mention of a group, are Zerkers supposed to solo? You tell me, what you think this means. Show me and the dev's something in the english language that says Zerkers aren't or can't be the MT here... you can't so don't try!
Ask a berserker, I wont even begin to pretend I know the answer or all the classes strength/weakness.
Bruiser
Bruisers are powerful thugs WHO USE RAW PHYSICAL FORCE TO PUMMEL THERE OPPONENTS (Guess this means they are a DPS class like Swashies and Assassins right? Too bad they are listed under the FIGHTER ARCHTYPE which is useed to determine your ROLE for the rest of the game). They have transformed thier bodies INTO BRUTAL, DAMAGING WEAPONS. The manual agrees here word for word but again, where is it stated that Bruisers CANNOT TANK? I do not see it... does anyone else see those words or anything like them there? Come on now tell the truth to your inner child and admit it to yourself that those words do not appear here. It says they are Bada$$ hand-to-hand, and since they are Fighters, THEY TANK THAT WAY.
I dont see anything here that helps me choose a Bruiser over a guardian as a main tank, I can only make a choice on what I do see, maybe doing thats where peoples first mistake was orignaly made? all I see mentioned is good DPS.
Monk
Monks are disciplined combatants who specialize in martial arts. they hone there bodys to be NIMBLE TO AVOID ENEMY BLOWS, AND TO DELEVER CLEAN AND EFFICIENT COUNTERATTACKS. See above, but add that Monks are the defensive side of the Brawler sub-class. Once again to reiterate it to you since you need it repeated, Monks are Brawlers and Brawlers are FIGHTERS. Sorry Fighters ARE TANKS. Monks are the more DEFENSIVE side of their class, just like OMG! Say it isn't so, we are the DEFENSIVE side of WARRIORS.
Ok again, Im still not seeing anything solid on chooseing the meatshield I want to play. Help me out somehere. I see they can avoid a hit so yeah, maybe they are ok at tanking, but as for the breakdown, I still have to choose the guardian if your in it for the main tank style of gameplay.
Paladin
Paladins are crusaders for all things good and right. wearing HEAVY ARMOR, these valiant defenders of truth fight for honoe, virtue, and nobility. Hmmm, let's see here... Let's go to the manual page 28 and 29 to look at Crusaders and Pallies shall we? Look at the stat bonuses they get at both level 10 and 20. They get +2 to wisdom in both cases for a total of +4. Why is that do you suppose? That gives them better saves! Better saves means they get the advantage when TANKING Casting mobs.
Still, not helping me change my desission on what class i should play as a meat shiled, Its whats "Not" said, that you are using as examlpes, but I used this..... "wearing Heavy armor" not "Heaviest of armor"
Shadowknight
Shadowknights insidious dark crusaders who use the power of evil to advance there causes. THE LIVE TO INFLICT FEAR,HATE, AND DESPAIR on all who cross their paths. See Pallies but they are EVIL.
Now some more for you from the manual. Crusaders were able to wear VANGUARD as well as Guardians in the original design of things, so why were they not designed to tank if they were to get the best armor? Ask yourself that question. Guess it was to look good huh?
The Crusaders is a branch, lvl9+ there still all pretty close in them lvls. yes not at all far from fighter yet, but still a lot away from there defining skills.(19+)
I stopped saying that the classes were all FIGHTER ARCHTYPES because I got sick and tired of typing it. Please, I will change my position if you can find anything in the owner's manual that states that your class will totally change roles as it advances in level.
Agree, it doesnt say anywhere in the manual that your class will totally change roles, thus the reason all the guardians are now upset /wink
Let me save you the time, it does not! in fact, it states on page 40 that "As your character advances in level, you will be able to specialize in your adventure atchetype by choosing a class and a subclass." That tells me that ALL FIGHTERS WILL TANK, but that we all tank DIFFERENTLY! /falls on flor clasping heart as if having a heart attack.
Ok, this is kinda funny, but I'll try to explain,
at the start, you choose a fighter type, yes, a main base class of warrior, you share the same skills up till you choose your first direction, at this point you pick what you want to do.
the discription text appears on the screen and you make a choice on what your role, or traits are.
this splits the fighter tree 3 ways, (play along with me, what would you choose if you wanted to be a meat shield blunt tank)
Warrior:
Warriors utilize heavy armor and weapons to safeguard there companions and inflict damage upon opponents. they stand bravely at the forefront of battle, striking fear into the hearts of enemies.
Brawler:
Brawlers specialize in physical combat styles that bring them face to face with the enemy. Favoring light armor and hand to hand combat tactics, brawlers have honed there bodies into potent weapons.
Crusader:
Crusaders are armored defenders that call upon divine powers to aid them in battle. they weild a varirty of weapons in combat an are capable of dealing impressive physical damage.
in fact, it states on page 40 that "As your character advances in level, you will be able to specialize in your adventure atchetype by choosing a class and a subclass." That tells me that ALL FIGHTERS WILL TANK,
well, I dont see it saying that "ALL fighters will tank" but I dont not agree that they all should.
but it is saying some doing things better then others.,
Profession tree, branch off, in different directions.
quote from page 40.
As your character advances in lvl, you will be able to specialise in your adventure archetype by choosing a class and subclass.
this make avalible more skills, abilities, and spells and lead to greater power. you will have to complete the hallmark quest in order to advance in more specialised areas.
this is what defines our class.
but that we all tank DIFFERENTLY!
that was never said untill forums on post LU13
/falls on flor clasping heart as if having a heart attack.
Isn't that what we have been getting from SOE lately when we get any feedback at all? Yes it is. It was designed for there to be 6 count them 6 tanks!
again agree, all 6 should be albe to tank, but also the one class specializing in tanking and mitigation from november 9 2004 to sept 12 2005 should do it a bit better. its all that was ever decribed, the reason people choose it, and the only reason to play one.
I do not agree with it, in fact I think it is totally absurd, but that is in black and white if you would actually read the [expletive haxx0red by Raiscript] book!
Dan't flame me because you went into this with half of the total picture! ( generalized phrase not you personally)
acually I can only speak for myself and I didnt have half a picture,
I made a choice of what I was told, on what was written ,not what wasnt , or what I thought might of been implying.
you did not understand what this game was meant to be,
im not to sure of that, I was the main tank for 10 months, how wrong could all the guardians have been?
you(same here, not a personal attack) are the ones that keep responding to flame bait and derailing our own forumns.
It is this narrowminded BS that is keep the "love" away from us. There is entirely too much whining and crying on our boards because people saw what they wanted and not was intended to be. Deal with it. We WERE NEVER MEANT TO BE THE END ALL OF THE FIGHTER ARCHTYPE! ONLY THE MOST SPECIALIZED DEFENSIVE OF THE 6! Nowhere is the #1 Main Tank ever mentioned period!
my only attack on you is, you riddled a informational post with sarcasam, and inserted personal interpatations of what :wasnt" said in the manual, then called other people narrowminded.
/rant off
Seriously, get out of the we gotta be #1 tank or we will never be anything but the garbage we currently are.
not the only tank, just better at it.
dont fear what you dont understand.