I'll start off by saying I love Dwarfs... love the ideals, the history, lore, and whole.... dwarfness. I also love melee classes, and tend to lean towards more powerful, defensive character classes. I've been debating whether or not to go to defender or templar. I don't know what it was but something about the combat system kind of bugged me, and I've also seen alot of flak about the Guardian class.... Talk me into being a Guardian <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> tell me all the pros and cons Thanks in advance. <div></div>

<P>If your looking at guardians and templars, you are probably looking at having a class essential at raiding.</P> <P>So if you want to have the best raid tank in the game, go guardian.  Can't say much about templars tho.</P>

<P>Pros - Most stable tank in the game as far as damage control</P> <P>Cons - Dps is horrific (as it should be), Protection buffs broken, we can't invis, we can't heal, we can't rezz, we can't evac, we can't harm touch</P> <P>Seriously all in all isn't bad don't believe the hype</P>

    Well... With what I've been reading on these forums I'm deffinately leaning towards guardians, even though they haven't been getting much love from fellow Guardians. And yes, I'm looking for a partying class because I think soloing negates the purpose of an online game =p <div></div>

<P>Guardians are OK tanks. Not horrible and by no means the best, just OK. If you want the feel of a Defensive plate tanks that doesn't do anything useful that others can't do and most times do better then Guardian is for you.</P> <P>I don't mean to discourage but I do mean to be honest. Before the Combat Patch Guardians were overpowered due to how the game deals with buffs and the personal buffs that Guardians had to use. The Combat Patch took all that away and gave nothing else. I solo, I tank for guild groups and I have fun with my firends. I do this with a Guardian becasue I will not take the time to work another charachter up that is more effective.</P>

Consider your choice well.  Guards are terrible at solo work but are great in groups.  Raids if you are a MT or OT are fun, but if you are neither of these, will find it hard to even get a spot in the raid due to the terrible dps we put out. I'm considering rolling another class as after a year spent playing a guard, I no longer find it fun.  What a guard is now was not what a guard was 1 year ago.  Nor in 6months time or a year from now will a guard be be the same as it is now.  SOE don't seem to even know what role a guard should provide.  Zerkers, Bruisers and SKs tank just as well as guards on raids provided they have agro.  But I've never yet seen them lose it so even though a guardian has maybe the best range of taunts, I've honestly not seen that hinder the other classes on raids. <div></div>

<DIV>Here are the pros and cons as I see them (from a guardian).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Pros</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>High mitigation (though not enough)</DIV> <DIV>Decent aggro management</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Cons</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Not enough mitigation </DIV> <DIV>Very low DPS</DIV> <DIV>Very low Utility.</DIV>

For every good one there is like 3 bad posts >_< Seriously guys... your not doing too good on recruiting another Guardian =p <div></div>

<div></div><a target="top" href="../view_profile?user.id=197947"></a><span><span></span></span>Thorcamoif, maybe post what your expecations are on playing a guardian and whether or not you plan on raiding etc.  If you plan on raiding but dont' have the time or desire to be main tank or offtank on the raids, then don't pick a guardian.  Pick a zerker instead as in single groups, they can tank just as well as guards can but in raids can dps very very good.  Even a bruiser can tank in groups and in raids are loved for their dps.<div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thorcamoif wrote:<BR>For every good one there is like 3 bad posts >_<<BR><BR>Seriously guys... your not doing too good on recruiting another Guardian =p<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There are a good number of very unhappy guardians here (I was one, though now I'm just unhappy).  I'd take out all the replies that say were the best and all the ones that say we are the worst and you'd be close.  There are a few broken items that make a guardians job difficult, Especially when solo'ing.   </P> <P>In normal groups and solo the avoidance tanks are IMO a better choice for MT.  Raids are still being debated.</P> <P> </P>

<P>BTW here's a good thread stating the current issues that the guardian class is having.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=20798&view=by_date_a scending&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=20798&view=by_date_a scending&page=1</A></P>

I read the post and... well... ouch. Well.. I think I'll take the high road and stick with my choice <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm usually a defensive class in a game and used to being underpowered =x Seriously... Don't the game developers think that someone with a shield that covers most of their body would be able to block more than someone with fist weapons or just an axe...well... I guess not =| <div></div>

Guards suck, I'd look elsewhere. <div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thorcamoif wrote:<BR>I read the post and... well... ouch.<BR><BR><BR>Well.. I think I'll take the high road and stick with my choice <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>I'm usually a defensive class in a game and used to being underpowered =x<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Seriously... Don't the game developers think that someone with a shield that covers most of their body would be able to block more than someone with fist weapons or just an axe...well... I guess not =|</FONT> <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well they did, but it was nerfed before it hit live or even test... nerfed on the beta server I think, dont use logic to evaluate the class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Make a necro as an alt <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Thorcamoif wrote:I read the post and... well... ouch. Well.. I think I'll take the high road and stick with my choice <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm usually a defensive class in a game and used to being underpowered =x Seriously... Don't the game developers think that someone with a shield that covers most of their body would be able to block more than someone with fist weapons or just an axe...well... I guess not =| <div></div><hr></blockquote>All fighters take hits about the same. With gear and lvl comparable, a bruiser and a guardian will take the same damage during a fight. Well the bruiser will take less but whos counting. Brawlers have much higher dps and more base HPs. These facts are not in dispute. SOE will tell you the same thing. The rest is my option. What is a defensive tank? To me defense means takes a hit better. Offsense means gives a hit better. Most would think these balance. They do not. To SOE slightly better group taunts makes us a defensive tank. Brawlers taunt single encounters better in my option. So while guardians may taunt better its a very slight adavantage. We have little useful utility. We a couple group buffs we use that help us tank the same as other fighters. (2% avoidance and 2-300 hps at 51). We also have some mostly useless protection spells. There is no defensive tank.  There is a tank with the same defense as all other fiighters, low dps, and little useful utility. Until this is addressed I would not play a guardian. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by lazlo1 on <span class=date_text>10-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:12 PM</span>

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thorcamoif wrote:<BR>For every good one there is like 3 bad posts >_<<BR><BR>Seriously guys... your not doing too good on recruiting another Guardian =p<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Like I said don't believe the hype, learn how to use the skills and so on and you'll do just fine, its a lot harder to hold aggro on other tank classes.</DIV>

   I would seriously think about your choice to go guard. Although people are still enjoying it, many are not. If you want to tank every class tanks the same (sorta, I don't play any other tanks, but the hype says monks tank the best). The real problem is every class does everything else better. Guards can't out dps a newborn kitten and I think the kitten has more utilty.    On the up side there are a lot less guardians now so you would be unique. I know a lot of guards that a retires or out and out deleted. <div></div>

<DIV>If nothing changes I wouldn't go Guardian.  Brawlers are already better Main Tanks due to the avoidance.  Bashm posted here the other day about mitigation and spike damage.  I myself am seeing 2k to 6k spikes even with pretty good mitigation. As of now if you wanna tank Monk/Bruiser.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>60 Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Emwon Abrrams - Fortitude Guild - Kithicor Server</DIV><p>Message Edited by AtrueAsasin on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 AM</span>

Sadly, I cannot recommend Guardian as a class choice anymore.  If your a level 19 Warrior and do not wish to go back and start over as a Brawler then your best choice would be Zerker.  Granted IMO both Warriors sub-classes are broken but at least with Zerker you can have abit more fun. <div></div>

The good does not balance out the bad, if your looking to enjoy the game. You won't do it here.

If you really want to be a mitigation tank, go berserker.  They can do what a guard does, but have better utilities and dps. <div></div>

As it stands now, guardian isn't that great of a choice.  Brawlers are a lot more dps, and more utility, and aren't quite as dependant on their gear for tanking ability.  Additionally, their gear (being leather) is cheaper to buy.  Last I looked, the rare tradeskill component to make their armor was about 25% the price.  Paladins also make a decent tank due to their stuns, healing/wards, etc, and have pretty low dps.  However, they share the same gear requirements as the other plate tanks. But, brawlers are currently the flavor of the month for tanking...and that might change.   I don't doubt that guardians are going to get something thrown their way to rebalance, but whether its enough or not, I don't know. My personal theory is that guardians will remain slightly underpowered to compensate for them being a disporportionately high percentage of the tanks out there (pre-combat changes, it was a no brainer to take a guardian for the heavy defensive tank role, so lots of people did) The key issue though I think is that a very significant number of guardians would much rather be playing another class at the moment.  This may be because a ton of the people that made guardians are the flavor of the month gamers that always want to be in the most powerful class...or because Sony percieved this as so and rebalanced guardians to drive this type of player to other classes, in order to balance out the class distribution numbers. <div></div>

Don't go Guardian, go Bruiser.  It's your safe bet since they will never get nerfed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aaric wrote:<BR>The key issue though I think is that a very significant number of guardians would much rather be playing another class at the moment.  This may be because a ton of the people that made guardians are the flavor of the month gamers that always want to be in the most powerful class...or because Sony percieved this as so and rebalanced guardians to drive this type of player to other classes, in order to balance out the class distribution numbers.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I disagree with you here.   I played a Guardian because I liked the idea of defending others.   Pre-LU13 our jobs were pretty dull, but I still had some fun.   Now it's no longer fun and it is extremely tedious and dull.</DIV>

<DIV>I too like the idea of a Guardian... Anyone read the Drizzt books? Bruenor? He was the ULTAMATE Dwarf.... my role model... and if he were in the world of EQ he'd be a Guardian... but in D&D it's a Dwarven Defender =p</DIV>

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TunaBoo wrote:<BR>Guards suck, I'd look elsewhere.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ditto !!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, I am bitter, now I am.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You say that what you like is being defensive. Then you look at the brawler and say, wow, they do too much DPS, don't want it, I want defensive. You look the berzerker, and say, they were plate, they use tower shields, but they do too much DPS, NO, I want defensive ...</DIV> <DIV>And, heheh, you look the guardian and say, now thats defensive, they can't swing a blade, but they take the beat and smile at the mob.</DIV> <DIV>Man, WRONG. All the fighters are defensive. But the guardian can be ONLY defensive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND, there are threads that already show this, the brawlers, as avoidance fighters, are better tanks, because they don't get so much stunned as the mitigation tanks. Why, because they get less hits. Ain't that obivious ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, you get to this "RPG" game, FANTASY setting, and say, I want a defence, I want that bad a** that stand irritaiting the target, getting beaten, and singing "GET OUT MY WAY, I CAN DO EVERYTHING ..."(who played WH Hulk ? :smileytongue: ) I won't be a char in PJs, what, ninja tanking??!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WELL, sorry, you are way off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DON'T ROLL A GUARDIAN!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, I am bitter ...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Wlian on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:40 AM</span>

Don't go Guard, save yourself the headache.

<P>**COMMENTS NOT APPROPRIATE**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:31 PM</span>

i would not at this point... pick zerker instead. i am having much more fun playing my fury now and i can easily solo one up heroics with him.. much easier to solo and much much easier to find a group.

<P>**REMOVED FLAME BAIT**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>