I'm not overly mathy...<br /> <br />Nor am I verbose (okay, that might be a bit of a lie)...<br /> <br />So, I present you with the following:<br /> <br /><img src="http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/Nezettex/scouting1_zps29aad83f.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />I wish this were an exaggeration... If you need me to post parses, I will... of multiple scouts. But really, anyone can pull up their ACT and look at their scouts and see that auto makes up anywhere from 60-85% of their dps. And then the next large chunk of dps comes from procs. CAs are beyond lolsy. If you're a lucky scout, you might have a couple AA CAs that will register above 1%. The rest? They are pretty much on par with Caustic poisons on Live.<br /> <br />If there's a bonus to this, I def don't need to waste my time harvesting or money researching grandmasters!<br /> <br /><img src="http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/Nezettex/scouting5_zps60430e9d.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />On the same line of thought from the first bit-- AUTO AUTO AUTO-- there's maybe 5% incentive to trying.<br /> <br />I want to be clear, as a dirge, I'm not bummed by my dps output... my numbers are *fine.* Where I have a problem is <i>HOW </i>I dps. When I say I want my CAs to matter, I'm not saying, "Woe is me, my dps is low and I want to be higher on the parse." Auto should make up 40% of my dps, MAX. When I gear up, the ratio of auto/CAs should increase in a balanced manner.<br /> <br />You can't even begin to understand how frustrating it is to have your auto increase exponentially and have folks who can't be bothered to look at ACT act like you've suddenly won the game. I just want to scream, "No, you moron, I've done nothing different between this week and last week... I'm still hitting these worthless CAs... But thanks for thinking I was bad, I totes appreciate it!"<br /> <br /><img src="http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/Nezettex/scouting2_zps3544f5b3.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />I really love how moronic mages are. No, but really. Love. "Auto is my largest output, too!"<br /> <br />*facepalm*<br /> <br />There was a time when you had to get mathy and care about your CA order... Like, I quit at the end of TSO, so, I'm not sure when this changed. I still like to pretend it matters because it makes me feel better about myself... but deep down (not even that deep down), I know it doesn't.<br /> <br /><img src="http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/Nezettex/scouting3_zpsba2e97dd.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />Our debuffs... LOLS at our debuffs.<br /> <br />I totes appreciate how crafty some of the new encounters are, but guys... please... I'm more than happy to run around and joust and stuff... but, if you're going to tell us that our CA damage is just a bonus for these debuffs, then you need to let us actually run in and debuff. This is makes sense, right? <span style="color: #ff00ff"><i><b>(TY Gninja friend for looking over the encounters. Very much appreciated!)</b></i></span><br /> <br />And regarding these debuffs, you do realize that the defensive debuffs (exception of HP, reuse, INT, pot... ummm... anything else affecting AE damage hitting the raid and not just the tank) are junk, right? Current tank/healer mechanics are basically "how well can you cycle temps and remain immune to damage." So... who cares if the mob autos a little less hard? Kat's been begging you to look at this for a year now. Idk, would you mind taking him seriously? Like, if you're going to listen to whiney warlocks about needing to be equal to wizards, I think you should help the scouts in a similar manner.<br /> <br />And HP debuffs? If you insist on keeping them in game, fine. It's a utility ability-- give it to utility instead of making pred's suffer a dps hit to make it <i>fair </i>for their sorc counterparts. Just a thought.<br /> <br /><img src="http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag376/Nezettex/scouting4_zpsacd9d03a.jpg" class="bbCodeImage LbImage" alt="[IMG]" /><br /> <br />And, this... this is for bffrat!<br /> <br />_________________________________________________ __________________________<br /> <br />More to come, I'm certain of it...

I Support this post. and I play a warlock.

pew pew ice comet<br /> <br />Also: auto should make up 15-20 or less, not even 40.

This is one of the best posts in beta. Very nicely done! The sad thing is it's totally true.

15-20 is ideal.<br /> <br />I seem to recall our scouts hanging out around 30ish back in the day and I figured I'd be kind and aim high... but yeah...

This post is magical. I support this message. Also, another thing that ties into this is the insane gear choices scouts,melee healers, bards, chanters..........like everyone in the raid cept like 6 people have to make with the separation of stats of pot and wdb. No stamina gear is an asinine option for players (especially scouts) that must maintain acceptable stat levels to attempt to compete on overall dps output, especially close range melee classes. Can we please just have an overall combined stats set and hp set option. This will also result in guilds maintaining a more reasonable process in gearing out apps and raid alts.

I didn't read this post because I was too distracted by the amazing pictures. You did yourself a disservice!<br /> <br />PS: I am not a class balance dev so please do not be deterred by my post.

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Endymion"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Endymion said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6120157#post-6120157" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I didn't read this post because I was too distracted by the amazing pictures. You did yourself a disservice!<br /> <br />PS: I am not a class balance dev so please do not be deterred by my post.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />I am not easily deterred, DevFriend!

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ishmel"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ishmel said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6120155#post-6120155" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">This post is magical. I support this message. Also, another thing that ties into this is the insane gear choices scouts,melee healers, bards, chanters..........like everyone in the raid cept like 6 people have to make with the separation of stats of pot and wdb. No stamina gear is an asinine option for players (especially scouts) that must maintain acceptable stat levels to attempt to compete on overall dps output, especially close range melee classes. Can we please just have an overall combined stats set and hp set option. This will also result in guilds maintaining a more reasonable process in gearing out apps and raid alts.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />Tbh, I stopped bothering with the no-sta set. The added potency on these god-awful damage values was beyond negligible. The only reason to wear it is to give your healers *something* to do.

Coming soon to a post near you:<br /> <br />A montage of all the glorious encounters that say, "oh hi, scout friends! Get effed!" (No, but really, what have we done to anger you so, DevFriends?) This might take a day or 5 since I can't be bothered to run these zones... But I'll give you a hint: rear KBs? With Riposte mechanics? WHY?!<br /> <br />__________________________<br /> <br />Smarter gear choices is nice... but... let's be real, it goes deeper than this. That's just one of a few things that needs to happen. I'm not filled-to-the-brim with self-importance enough to tell you what to do. But really, it's pretty obvious to most folks.<br /> <br />ETA: I'm sorry if I'm being sassy... The bow on my ponytail might be tied a bit too tight. <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

I support the OPs suggestion 150%. Our CA's (as ranger) should do more, and our Auto should not be 50%+ of our dps. Why should we even bother improving from expert to master to grandmaster (just an example) if all that hard work is barely a 1/2% increase in dps?<br /> <br />Logically, scout combat abilities needa revamp, the autoattack system needs a revamp, and for the love of Mithaniel Marr, please fix whats broken before we push new content to break it further.

Ye it especially fun when i try my hardest on my conjy to compete on the parse and when on some fights i get tied with the ranger my parse is like 10% auto 20% pet dmg 10% procs and rest nukes (including pet nukes) and the ranger have 70% auto 20% procs and 10% ca's at most <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

Love this post.<br /> <br />Gets kind of boring pressing buttons constantly for an extra 10% dps maybe, over turning on auto attack and spending my time watching videos.

but less pot on bards means lesser overall utility you provide your group/raid

Winning the parse and then seeing nearly half of the damage is AUTO attack isn't very fun.<br />'hey guys look how high i parsed!'<br />'lol auto attack'<br />*sigh*<br />Poisons will take a percentage of DPS away from auto attack but it will also take it from abilities and the new poisons are just auto-nuke.<br /> <br />I suppose the new endlines, when working properly, could alleviate some of this. Where they could make or break an awesome parse if not used correctly, but with how powerful auto attack and poisons are itd have to be some insane burst damage.<br /> <br />Hopefully in the next gear set WDB won't be given out so liberally compared to potency and/or potency will mean a lot more to scouts. WDB being given out at 1/3 the rate of potency on armor still leaves WDB with the advantage, and procs have been closing that gap, not widening it.<br /> <br />Or you could just give out WDB with cb and pot as well, then have differing sets based on other stats. A wdb/pot/cb set with 'ability' stats (mod, casting, reuse, etc) and wdb/pot/cb set with 'auto attack' stats (ae auto, flurry, multi, DPS, etc.) BOTH with stamina. The problem with this is if WDB continues to be given out at the same rate it won't solve the 'auto attack heavy parse' issue.

Be so fun to stand at range or joust every 30 s on raid encounters when all our CAs are 4 m range. If u want CAs to make up 80% of a parse give me range to use them

Agree and I play mages. Much less auto, much more CAs. Take away %HP "balance" too.

So the two seconds out of roughly every 30-45s that you actually need to joust for mean all the scouts should be rangers Hamorm?

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Hamorm"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Hamorm said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6120434#post-6120434" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Be so fun to stand at range or joust every 30 s on raid encounters when all our CAs are 4 m range. If u want CAs to make up 80% of a parse give me range to use them</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I disagree with this full-heartedly. This is the sort of crutch mages get when they beg for casting-on-the-move... <br /> <br />Losing the essence of the classes is a horrible "fix."<br /> <br />However, choosing <i>not</i> to joust should be a viable option with adequate resists/single target wards/single target reactives. Making every AE a fail script/condition just seems like a poor life choice. Like, if I'm in orange and I know an ae is inc, I should have the option to say, "oh hey, I probs won't live this round... jousting out." <br /> <br />But again, who cares since most of these debuffs are a joke and our CA damage is Bob-Saget-level of lols...

Makes more since to me to see scouts gaining more dmg from auto I play a sin so only 50% or so of my parse is auto not as boring as a ranger granted or dirge.

Well I think scout DPS should contain more damage from auto attack than say mages, but the current state is ridiculous. For preds at least I wouldn't mind seeing the abilities within the current prestige and heroic tables getting bumped up since they take more attention and planning than most other abilities.

- Delete max health debuffs<br />- Fix Combat Arts<br />- Balance spell/melee auto.

I don't mind max health debuffs, encourages a more diverse roster which is needed when having so many classes and so few group/raid slots. Raid full of FOTM is lame. I'm also not terribly gimped DPS wise even compared to mages, just sick of so much of it being auto attack.

You won't have a raid full of warlocks because it takes 2-3x as long to gear as half mage half scout. As long as the classes are relatively close in dps they'll be split. But if hp debuffs didn't exist raids wouldn't be using scouts.

Those seem like contradicting statements.<br /> <br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Buffrat"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Buffrat said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6120515#post-6120515" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">You won't have a raid full of warlocks because it takes 2-3x as long to gear as half mage half scout. As long as the classes are relatively close in dps they'll be split.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>vs.<br /><div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Buffrat"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Buffrat said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6120515#post-6120515" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">But if hp debuffs didn't exist raids wouldn't be using scouts.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />Without HP debuffs I would guess raids would be two full mage groups, then the two tank groups with 1 DPS scout in each.brigand (for other debuffs) and pred or just two brigands.

... Isn't that how it is now?

We've managed to get some scouts that do well on the parse in spite of balance problems. Removal of HP debuffs would just lock mage groups down further, even if they boosted scout DPS to be more consistent.

Brig, Assassin, Guardian, Warden, Dirge, someotherclassican'tthink of best dps group ww!

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Neiloch"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Neiloch said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6120529#post-6120529" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Those seem like contradicting statements.<br /> <br /> <br />vs.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />Without HP debuffs I would guess raids would be two full mage groups, then the two tank groups with 1 DPS scout in each.brigand (for other debuffs) and pred or just two brigands.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />I'm saying there that ungeared sorcerers probably do more dps than geared scouts. Armor wise.<br /> <br />If hp debuffs didn't exist there would be 2 mage groups, the mt group would have troub/conj, and the 4th group *might* have a pity brigand to soak up gear, but that brigand would probably say "**** this I want to mage".<br /> <br />For the record, if we REALLY have to keep hp debuffs, I'd rather have the hp debuffs changed to be "mob takes 2% more damage" rather than "mob has 2% less health".

Taking % more damage instead of %HP debuff is a step in the right direction as long as it's balanced between all scouts. Seeing as some scouts have a higher %HP debuff than others it might create more balance issues than fixing them entirely.