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- - How Infamous Are You? (https://archive.eq2wire.com//showthread.php?t=439232)

I believe it is past due for a title/infamy revamp as the current system does not promote PvP combat. Many people with high ranking titles will avoid fights at all cost unless they are assured a victory. Some will kill themselves by jump off cliffs, tinkered items, hitting a powerful mob (Danak Guard) all to avoid the infamy hit. Others, once desired title is achieved (or purchased) they stay in the cities only to emerge on the rare occasion. We need something new that will encourage people to fight more and worry less about the infamy title they hold. Here are a couple of ideas. New name prefix or suffixes (static):These could be rewards for career milestones. Total kills, total deaths, kill to death ratio (both good or bad), etc. I am not sure if other statistics are retained, but if they are there could be titles for zones, Vindicator of the Stepps, or class kills, Hunter of Priests, or faction, Slayer of Exiles. Infamy Decay (active title) - How infamous can one be if they run all the time or hang out in safe zones? The mechanic for decay use to exist in game. When the game launched in ‘04 guild status and level decayed if members weren’t constantly feeding it. What if infamy worked the same way? Just some thoughts for the developers and community alike to think about.

Yes, I agree completely. I think everyone is sick of the "fame wh*ores of the game these days. Never fighting always leeching, and ganking one v ones. Fame makes people dirty on this game.Ive given up caring about fame, because when I lost, I found it was making me enjoy the game less. Now I just pvp whoever i can, and enjoy it alot more. It would be good to improve the element of the game that people seem to care the most about (fame), as it is sure to influence the way people play.

<cite>Ssue@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I believe it is past due for a title/infamy revamp as the current system does not promote PvP combat. Many people with high ranking titles will avoid fights at all cost unless they are assured a victory. Some will kill themselves by jump off cliffs, tinkered items, hitting a powerful mob (Danak Guard) all to avoid the infamy hit. Others, once desired title is achieved (or purchased) they stay in the cities only to emerge on the rare occasion. We need something new that will encourage people to fight more and worry less about the infamy title they hold. Here are a couple of ideas. New name prefix or suffixes (static):These could be rewards for career milestones. Total kills, total deaths, kill to death ratio (both good or bad), etc. I am not sure if other statistics are retained, but if they are there could be titles for zones, Vindicator of the Stepps, or class kills, Hunter of Priests, or faction, Slayer of Exiles. Infamy Decay (active title) - How infamous can one be if they run all the time or hang out in safe zones? The mechanic for decay use to exist in game. When the game launched in ‘04 guild status and level decayed if members weren’t constantly feeding it. What if infamy worked the same way? Just some thoughts for the developers and community alike to think about.</blockquote>All mostly good idea's I think. Personally I would love to see titles taken out and all other stats just leaving kill amount and maybe have titles associated with that. But I do like the idea of decay'd title also.

Totally agree about the fame system. Fame decay is the way to go.

I'd prefer the titles to be optional.In other words, they are included in the drop down menu instead of tacked immediately to your avatar when you achieve it. I have one toon with a PvP title and she's stalked like a 19 year old in a bad neighborhood. And on the flipside.. those so proud of their titles, can boast them all they want and either avoid combat to preserve it or hide it and only display it in the privacy of their homes where they can get all tickley about it without risk of losing it.This way people are encouraged to PvP more cause they have no idea if they're attacking a hunter or a destroyer. And, better.. won't run like a pansie at the first site of somebody who can probably beat them down like Tyson in an attempt to reclaim the heavy weight championship.

The title system is not simply flawed, it's completely broken. As it stands I could be an overseer tomorrow if I had enough plat, and if I had enough accounts I could simply farm the fame.Title system is fail. Please just remove it.

You can't just take something away from players and not expect a huge backlash. Most of the population hates titles, but for a small minority it is thier life and entire purpose to playing the game. We look down upon title hoars like they are the scum of the server, and while I may often agree with that opinion (especially when you look at many of the players who have high titles and how they earned them) I accept the fact that SOE just will not completely remove something from the game that is the central reason for some of the players playing the game. Removing titles from the game is a pipe dream that will never happen. I do agree with the idea that PvP titles should be able to be toggled on and off just like any other title. Those who hate titles can completely ignore the title system, and those who's online life revolves around their title can show off their title to the other title hoars who will probably be the only people left who leave titles toggled on.

Héhé the monthly title system post. Yep title system is BS. They did not change it for ages though, I don't see why they would change it now.

I do not like the decay idea because Venekor is way too underpopulated. My last fame kill was a few months ago when Valentino was nice enough to give it to me. And before that i dont even remember when the last one was. Theres not enough people on Venekor, and way less people with a high title.There should be another way. The title system itself is okay ( the way how you earn and loose faame ) but it also promotes cowardice and that is the problem. Make titles static once you got em. Whenever you obtained a title you cannot loose it anymore and all those high titled people will not run anymore because they cannot loose it anymore. There should be also a drawback. So lets say you are a general closely before master. You can stll loose fame to the point where you drop down all the gained fame back to general +-0 but you cannot loose the title. This way people wont go rampage because they cannot loose their beloeved title. So it will be still hard to achieve certain title but more people will probably fight.

The titels dont mean much nowdays.1) you need the rigth class, if you dont have the rigth class you need a good group.2) You need to be lame.3) You can pvp less if you have to avoide ppl/group that can take your fame.

Remove it is unfair for people who worked hard on it. I like the idea of fame decay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyway, the issue is more the way people think than the title system.In this game when you die, you loose nothing, but people prefer evac/fall into the void ... than fighting. They don't even try .. and yet i'm the worst trouby on the server.

I'd support the notion of keeping your title once you get it. No matter how you get it (real fights, farming alts, etc.) at least maybe it'll stop people from running to preserve their precious title, and if that happens, the few players left on the servers get more pvp action.

People will gank/run to protect any stat they have. Taking titles away will not change that.Even if you hide every pvp stat available, guess what, ppl will still gank/run for thier reputation.To them, any loss is a bad thing, and any win (no matter the odds) is a point for them.The funny thing is, I have ppl with NO TITLES run from me all the time. They seem to have a mega fear of being killed. In fact, I think people with no titles run from me more than ones with titles.Its a fact of the game. People are people. If you don't want peopl to run, you'll have to enjoy fighting mobs. Otherwise, live with it, and hope you can find a few good fights here and there.

<cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The funny thing is, I have ppl with NO TITLES run from me all the time. They seem to have a mega fear of being killed. In fact, I think people with no titles run from me more than ones with titles.</blockquote>I see what you mean.I think some players with no title just don't really take part in the pvp game. They are on pvp servers for the extra risk/RP aspect, but know they are not awesome pvpers and try to avoid pvp so they run. If you manage to catch them usually it's an easy kill.Ppl with a decent title, on the other hand, are at least used to taking part in pvp. Most of them will only run if they think their title may take a hit (either because you are in their title range or they expect a trap). Granted some of those ppl only pvp in a gank scenario and will evac/run at first sight of a fair fight.

I like the thing about being able to hide your title, but fame decay just won't work.

I don't think a revamp is in order whatsoever. I think the title system is mostly fine, as is.Decay penalizes casual players.Persistent / static title with no chance of loss introduces no risk / all reward scenario; lame.People who buy their titles are the laughing stocks of the server and their reputation preceeds them, regardless of their title.

Instead of a simple fame decay, I would suggest a different type of fame system. Something like...1. You lose fame if you severely outmatch someone: In masters, gear, numbers (as in groups) and level. Fame loss doubles if you lose to an opponent severely weaker than you.1a. Also lose fame if you run away in a fair fight. Measured if you're more than 60 meters away while engaged.1b. Lose fame if you evac from someone if they engaged you.2. All fame will reset under this new system: Everyone set to no title.3. New types of writs can achieve fame. Will have to kill a specific player to complete the quest: Bounty Writ4. New and better gear can be achieved with the higher fame, and only wearable with the certain title: That way, titles mean more than just something you put infront of your name.5. The longer the fight is, the more fame you get.6. Can only achieve fame if both players are engaged in pvp combat, unless the person engaging first is in pvp combat for more than 10 seconds while the other player isn't. That way if you chase someone across the zone for a long time and finally kill him you would get fame for being persistant. 7. More fame is gained if you kill higher titles, wrather than only having to kill someone 1 title greater than you.8. Have a stats window show up on how well you did if you fought against an enemy, which will show how much fame you gained or lost from the fight.9. Whoever gets hit first in a pvp fight will achieve more fame than whoever jumped them if they win.10. Fame is also determined by the number of sucessful attacks each person gives or recieves. That way if someone has engaged and got stunned the hole time, he would lose less fame and the winner would gain less fame.11. Can also achieve fame if you fight back and still lose, that way you at least tried.12. Fame loss multiplys if you constantly kill a target over and over again unengaged.13. Gain a fame bonus when fighting in a city.Just my ideas which may be more beneficial than a simple fame decay system. Still can be ways to exploit these rules if implemented. And remember, this is fame, not writ updates.

<cite>Rhodan@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of a simple fame decay, I would suggest a different type of fame system. Something like...1. You lose fame if you severely outmatch someone: In masters, gear, numbers (as in groups) and level. Fame loss doubles if you lose to an opponent severely weaker than you.1a. Also lose fame if you run away in a fair fight. Measured if you're more than 60 meters away while engaged.1b. Lose fame if you evac from someone if they engaged you.2. All fame will reset under this new system: Everyone set to no title.3. New types of writs can achieve fame. Will have to kill a specific player to complete the quest: Bounty Writ4. New and better gear can be achieved with the higher fame, and only wearable with the certain title: That way, titles mean more than just something you put infront of your name.5. The longer the fight is, the more fame you get.6. Can only achieve fame if both players are engaged in pvp combat, unless the person engaging first is in pvp combat for more than 10 seconds while the other player isn't. That way if you chase someone across the zone for a long time and finally kill him you would get fame for being persistant. 7. More fame is gained if you kill higher titles, wrather than only having to kill someone 1 title greater than you.8. Have a stats window show up on how well you did if you fought against an enemy, which will show how much fame you gained or lost from the fight.9. Whoever gets hit first in a pvp fight will achieve more fame than whoever jumped them if they win.10. Fame is also determined by the number of sucessful attacks each person gives or recieves. That way if someone has engaged and got stunned the hole time, he would lose less fame and the winner would gain less fame.11. Can also achieve fame if you fight back and still lose, that way you at least tried.12. Fame loss multiplys if you constantly kill a target over and over again unengaged.13. Gain a fame bonus when fighting in a city.Just my ideas which may be more beneficial than a simple fame decay system. Still can be ways to exploit these rules if implemented. And remember, this is fame, not writ updates.</blockquote>Doesnt work, way too complicated and some ideas are bad.

A number of thoughts on different ideas ive seen here and before:Kill / death ratio = /fail... will have just as many runners if not MORE, because now they can lose titles to anyone, including groups or solo no titled players... so they will run from EVERYONE, unless they know for a fact they can win, unlike now they just run from people they know they can lose titles from.Decay = /fail..... those people who play casually and / or are not the proper class to actually be able to go and hunt down PVP on their pretty much will never have a title... and if having a tittle is something you like, but cant play 24/7, it will disgust those people and they will quit....No Drop, only increase title = /fail..... this will lead eventually to EVERYONE being the top title in the game... everyone running around as Overseers in a few months because as they kill, they will eventually kill more and more people and since they cant lose fame, just getting more and more and more will just negate the title system "status"# of total Kills = /fail.... This would at least show how many kills you have gotten, but again, cant LOSE the number of kills, so again everyone would eventually be Overseer..... etc etc..Hiding Title = /meh, could be.... The idea of hiding title would certainly up the ante on fights... if you go into a fight not knowing whos got what title, then you wouldnt know if you should run or not instantly... if you recognized their name, you may or may not assume what their title might be, but you could be wrong.... This would still lead to the Title huggers to run from any fight they know they cant win..... Though hiding titles sort of negates the purpose of having the fame system... this idea is the best of the ones presented so far i would say... as you can still run around with no title if you want, and not care, and like said before, if i "accidentally" start getting a high title, i dont enjoy PVP as much because i get angry when i lose fame... taking that away would make it stress free to those who dont truely care...Losing / Gaining Fame from anyone above or below = /best choice IMO.... This seems more practical then anything to me... if a General attacks a no title and gets pwned in the face... he stands to lose nothing and the no title gains nothing for just having killed a General... it makes no sense.... The General should lose MORE fame to the no title then he does to say a Dreadnaught... as Dreadnaught is closer in rank and is considered to have earned it through "skill" so therefore he should be a more even match and should not lose as much fame to him... This would reward the lower titled players for kills they should really "earn" fame for... killing the "tuff uber high titled players".... As in reality... if you were to take a General or Overseer and he was to one vs one, (truely one vs one) a No titled player... and got pwned by the no title... in the game, he would lose nothing... to his peers watching and to anyone else, and to himself... he would be lose face, lose respect from those who saw it... and would probably lose his lunch for getting pwned by no titled.... so actually he should lose fame for it, since that would more closely resemble real life "reactions" to something like that...A lowly servant, who hasn't "earned" his place in the world, and has no title, destroys a high titled "stud" should = lots of fame for that servant...he just proved he can kill the "best".... but nope... it earns him nothing but an update that killing an AFK plat farmer with T1 gear would have gotten him... Less in fact, because the AFK plat farmer with T1 gear would get him fame.... Thats whats screwed up about the title system now..... The Title system needs to have some sort of an XP bar associated with it... so a General killing, lets say a No title, would earn him 10 XP points... him killing an overseer could earn him lets say 100 XP points... him losing to a no title would lose him 100 XP points, and losing to an Overseer 10.... the points should be spread equally depending on rank and who is losing to who... and vise versa... A no title killing a General would gain him 200 points, and killing another no title only 10 points... so it would still encourage everyone to fight everyone, as the General could still get fame off the no titles, but stand to LOSE a lot more.... Of course an XP matrix for the XP points and Rank could be easily developed...Is that a flawless system? no of course not... there will always be ways to exploit every system, but at least with the XP spread stystem, it would allow those who kill to get titles no matter what, and those who die to lose titles... just depends on who you fight and die to...

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="677"><colgroup span="1"><col span="1" width="64"></col><col span="1" width="95"></col><col span="1" width="64"></col><col span="1" width="45"></col><col span="1" width="44"></col><col span="1" width="63"></col><col span="1" width="65"></col><col span="1" width="80"></col><col span="1" width="52"></col><col span="1" width="47"></col><col span="1" width="58"></col></colgroup><tbody><tr height="17"><td width="64" height="17"> </td><td colspan="10" width="613"> Dies / Loses</td></tr><tr height="17"><td rowspan="10" height="170">Survives / Wins</td><td> </td><td>No Title</td><td>Hunter</td><td>Slayer</td><td>Destroyer</td><td>Champion</td><td>Dreadnaught</td><td>General</td><td>Master</td><td>Overseer</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">No title</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td><td align="right">200</td><td align="right">250</td><td align="right">300</td><td align="right">350</td><td align="right">400</td><td align="right">450</td><td align="right">500</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">Hunter</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td><td align="right">200</td><td align="right">250</td><td align="right">300</td><td align="right">350</td><td align="right">400</td><td align="right">450</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">Slayer</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td><td align="right">200</td><td align="right">250</td><td align="right">300</td><td align="right">350</td><td align="right">400</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">Destroyer</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td><td align="right">200</td><td align="right">250</td><td align="right">300</td><td align="right">350</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">Champion</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td><td align="right">200</td><td align="right">250</td><td align="right">300</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">Dreadnaught</td><td align="right">2.5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td><td align="right">200</td><td align="right">250</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">General</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">2.5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td><td align="right">200</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">Master</td><td align="right">0.5</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">2.5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td><td align="right">150</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17">Overseer</td><td align="right">0</td><td align="right">0.5</td><td align="right">1</td><td align="right">2.5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">10</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">50</td><td align="right">100</td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Points needed:</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>No Title</td><td align="right">0</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Hunter</td><td align="right">10,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Slayer</td><td align="right">50,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Destroyer</td><td align="right">100,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Champion</td><td align="right">250,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Dreadnaught </td><td align="right">500,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>General</td><td align="right">1,000,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Master</td><td align="right">2,500,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr><tr height="17"><td height="17"> </td><td>Overseer</td><td align="right">5,000,000</td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td><td> </td></tr></tbody></table> This is a table i threw together just now to get my point accross as to the way i think it should work... These numbers are completely fabricated of course and im sure are not anywhere near what they should be, but you can view them as "multipliers" if you will..The top row represents the Title of the player who loses... The left column represents the Title of the player who Wins....As you can see... If anyone wins against an even titled person... Slayer to SLayer, Dessy to Dessy, etc... they win or lose 100 points... As you increase the distance between titles, the loss / gain is greater... EX: (to help you read the chart) If a no titled beats an Overseer, he gains 500, and subsequently the Overseer loses 500, as this would show that a lowly no title just bested the best of the best... so he should win lots and the "best" should lose lots for having gotten pwned by the Lowly no title...EX2: Dreadnaught jumps a Slayer... he stands to still gain fame XP, but in the form of only 10 points... now, if he loses and, then the slayer gains (and the dreadnaught loses) 250 points... because, as i described... uber gets beat by lowly should = uber loses more cuz he died to "easy" kill....Insert whatever points you want, or number of points required by each level to attain it, but the fact remains... Lowly beating Best should equal more fame then Best beating Best... and vise versaI see this as (dont flame me, im just chosing random teams) Dallas Cowboys matched against Los Angeles High School, and the HIgh school team won... Dallas Cowboys would lose tons of "fame" because they are supposed to be TONS AND TONS better then the High school team.... In reverse... The Dallas Cowboys beats the High Shool team... /meh... they should have beaten them, they are the best (as far as ranks of football teams from Gradeschool to Pro's) Get my drift... Thats the equivalent of an Overseer or Master beating a no titled or Hunter... (or would be in my system, as it seems to be in real life that way)As for the "Points needed" those are again fabricated from Thin air, but you get the drift... Certain number of XP points gets you that title.. if you drop below that # you lose the title... So the Overseer gets 5,000,000 and kills a few generals he gets 75 points... then dies to a hunter and he drops to General... cuz he got pwned by a 'newb' with no title...You would still see alot of the same crap as you see now... people running for whatever reason... but you would also see more no titles trying to kill High titles, as they still have the ability to strip alot of points (and gain alot) from killing the general... but they stand to lose as well... so the General still wants to kill them.High titled toons will always covet what they have, and there is no way to stop those exploiters or runners / evac'rs that will always run from anything besides an easy win... that will never change no matter what.... but you reward for all kills and its more to real life then the current system... Lore stays true and the low man on the totem can still stand a chance to strip the "almighty" high titles of their fame...

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote># of total Kills = /fail.... This would at least show how many kills you have gotten, but again, cant LOSE the number of kills, so again everyone would eventually be Overseer..... etc etc..</blockquote>Not really. Lotro has a system like this. All you have to do is make each title exponentially harder to get.Hunter = 100 killsSlayer = 500Destroyer = 1000Champion = 2000Dreadnaught = 4000General = 8000Master = 16000Overseer = 32000Something like this would REALLY encourage pvp because if you run, your never gonna get enough kills to move up.Of course this doesn't really help ganking at all, but thats another issue. Easy way to fix would be you only get kill credits if its 1v1, or somewhat even group vs group (not 6v2). Of course you should get credit if your solo and kill a group of 6 : )

The current system isnt as bad as it could be.The only way you could change things so people dont hog fame is to have a system where you dont lose fame for losing a fight or by having punishment for runing away and avioding fights. I dont consider either of these things a good idea.The best solution to my mind would be to fix the game to make it harder for people to hog fame by doing such things as stoping people evacing when someone attacks them.Would also be good to give everyone a pvp verion of track so everyone can find some solo or smaller scale pvp like scouts can and would balence the game alot.

here is the thing with the title system while i agree changes need to be made so it is fair for all classes never should you be able to /hide your title or should titles be taken away....... on the / hide of a title 99.999999% of the one swho like that idea are slayer or below.. i can not tell you how many people would pvp with me and my friends and be so exited to even get a title over slayer.. most people i run into that hate titles are also not bad at pvp though they just are bad at picking fights and with no fault of there own not being able to get away from gank squads.......... titles mean nothing other then to the person who owns that title.. once you hit t8 and have most of your gear and your epic really titles are all some people have left. wihtout a reward for pvp there is no reason to pvp...now one thing wich i cant rember who post it but th eidea of never being able to go down in a title is very flawed due to lets say you have a person who speed grinded to 80 no pvp no nothing how would this person ever get a title.. jus tthink about it 5 kills to get hunter about 10 kills to get slayer you cant tell me most people who took there time wont have atleast 100 kills before they hit lvl 80 wich would give them a high title.. so that poor person who rushed to 80 will never get a fame kill..the biggest thing that needs to be fixed is risk vs reward though... also SOE really needs to tweak they system so that you would loose very little when attacked by 3 or more while solo should give no fame loss..also i would love to see group titles come into the game.. what i mean by this is that if you run with the same group yoru group should have a special title. this game was built for group pvp yet has no group pvp titles

Decay would work. You'd simply set it to only decay while logged on. Simple.

<cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote># of total Kills = /fail.... This would at least show how many kills you have gotten, but again, cant LOSE the number of kills, so again everyone would eventually be Overseer..... etc etc..</blockquote>Not really. Lotro has a system like this. All you have to do is make each title exponentially harder to get.Hunter = 100 killsSlayer = 500Destroyer = 1000Champion = 2000Dreadnaught = 4000General = 8000Master = 16000Overseer = 32000Something like this would REALLY encourage pvp because if you run, your never gonna get enough kills to move up.Of course this doesn't really help ganking at all, but thats another issue. Easy way to fix would be you only get kill credits if its 1v1, or somewhat even group vs group (not 6v2). Of course you should get credit if your solo and kill a group of 6 : )</blockquote>Now you see that wouldn't work, i had an overseer with just over 1k kills!

Admittedly alot of these changes would take alot of work hence we probably will never see them. However having titles be hidden, or make an npc I can go hail and he jacks my title would work just as well. Seems a somewhat simpler answer, those of us who are not a fan of titles can hide or get rid of them, and those that like to work there titles can go along there merry way.

If you wanted to base it off kills,Perhaps you could base it off of kills per class. For example, let's take Brigand class for example.The highest kills for Brigand class is by Brokensword, with around 36,000. Because he has the most kills for his class, he should have the Overseer title. If someone were to pass him up in kills, he would drop tag and that person would have the title. You could do that with Master as well.Dropping lower down you could have the title vary by kills. You could (perhaps daily or weekly) average out how many kills there are per person for a specific class (or total, if you didn't want a class based system) that played in the past week or month or whatever. Going by that, you could determine how many kills you would need to achieve X title.If you wanted Master or Overseer, you would have to kill more and more players and eventually top that list. Additionally, with people having to go out and kill to eventually get Overseer, the average kills would inevitably go up requiring more kills to keep any title.Just a thought.

I'm interested to hear what you guys think about the current PvP system and what improvements you think can make it better. It still sounds like people are somewhat divided on what changes would help and we will probably never get everyone to agree, but I'm sure if we put our heads together we can come up with something.I think a decay system for fame sounds pretty good and I do like the idea of it only decaying while you are online so it doesn't punish casual players. If you didn't lose fame when dying people might be less likely to run. What if you could actually gain a small amount of fame if you died to a player that was higher level to you? This would represent the courage you had to stand there and face him instead of running.Please continue to discuss your ideas and we will continue reading them. Just keep in mind the simpler the system, the better. People need to be able to understand it and know how the outcome of a fight will affect their stats.

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm interested to hear what you guys think about the current PvP system and what improvements you think can make it better. It still sounds like people are somewhat divided on what changes would help and we will probably never get everyone to agree, but I'm sure if we put our heads together we can come up with something.I think a decay system for fame sounds pretty good and I do like the idea of it only decaying while you are online so it doesn't punish casual players. If you didn't lose fame when dying people might be less likely to run. What if you could actually gain a small amount of fame if you died to a player that was higher level to you? This would represent the courage you had to stand there and face him instead of running.Please continue to discuss your ideas and we will continue reading them. Just keep in mind the simpler the system, the better. People need to be able to understand it and know how the outcome of a fight will affect their stats.</blockquote>Casual player or not, the decay idea is not good. I spend alot of time raiding and doing pve stuff. I would have to worry about fame the whole time. And then you have this server venekor. Theres almost no pvp anymore. The server has been dead for a long time and i havent had a fame figh for the last 6 months. Forget the decaying idea, it will just punish the people.

On top of what Darkor said,<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think a decay system for fame sounds pretty good and I do like the idea of it only decaying while you are online so it doesn't punish casual players.</blockquote>The problem with that is you will still have the players who will actually log out instead of PVPing if it means keeping their fame. I'd rather see people PVPing to PVP instead of hiding and camping out in order to keep some pixels next to their name.Here's another kind of 'out there' idea for titles:- Title writs. These writs would be obviously obtainable while you have normal token writs. Killing X amount of players grants you a title.Examples:Title Writ: HunterGain 100 title points in PVP.Title Writ: Slayer (obtainable once you are Hunter)Gain 200 title points in PVP.... So on until eventually:Title Writ: Overseer (obtainable once you are Master)Gain 25000 title points in PVP.These title points are just a random idea, and you could think of it as fame points (which I imagine is something like we have now). A solo PVP kill would grant you the full 10 points, the more people you have with you (or the more you outnumber your opponent) the less amount of points you get.Take out fame gain, take out fame loss -- make everything based on killing people, not based on killing a prefix.If I'm a Master, I shouldn't have to run and hide to keep my title, I should be able to obtain and keep my title by killing people.These numbers could (and definitely would HAVE to) be adjusted on servers like Vox and Venekor, with the lower populations. And with this system not based on earning fame by killing titled people (and not losing any), you could (and really..would have to) add in a decay system.The higher your title, the quicker it'd decay.. but not like hourly or anything. Perhaps every day you'd lose points, and would lose increased amounts depending on what title you have. You may feel super awesome having an Overseer title, but if this were the real world.. people wouldn't be thinking too much of you if you were hiding in your house all day. Over time they'd stop referring to you as an Overseer.. or a Master, until you're back down to a nobody.Addition to previous bit:Really, this is just like the fame system we have now.. except you would get fame for every kill, regardless of title, and not lose any. There would be a decay system. But honestly, one thing definitely missing (that many players have asked for) is some kind of fame meter, and with a quest that would reward you with a title (which could decay if you don't PVP), people would be able to see exactly how far they are from getting that title.I do think you should add a one-per-server title for the person with the most kills at the time (check this weekly or something?). Make it something that sounds really cool and looks cool. Add in some sort of benefit for having the highest (or maybe second or third) highest kills on the server, maybe some cool particle effect. Something that makes you stand out from everyone else.If you add something cool like that in to the game, perhaps it would increase the amount of PVP and how many people stay and fight to the death, because they all want to one day reach that one title and be the only person on the server with it.Just some thoughts.. comments?Off topic comment:It's very nice to see devs post here, you should really do it more often. Even if you read the threads all the time, such a lack of actual posts (and major PVP changes to better the game) make people think you don't exist. A lot of the PVP threads have some interesting ideas which would be cool to have devs comment on. More PVPer + Dev interaction, please!