<p>OK - Rangers (and other thrown / range weapon users) have been told that ranged ammo is getting an upgrade in GU44 and the level of the ammo will be adjusted.  Thanks, this is appreciated.</p><p>RoK has brought about a lot more fabled items from heroic content, instances and quests than we have seen before so how about putting a couple of fabled long bows in the game, something that a ranger would actually use, prior to Tier 2 and Tier 3 raids.  The Cardiocutter is a very nice melee weapon that I've seen almost all scouts, and most fighters using before they start raiding, or until they get a better raid dropped melee weapon.  Protector's Realm has a couple of nice fabled melee weapons that drop off of some of the first mobs you encounter in the zone (meaning not the boss like most bows drop off of).  Why are their no Fabled Ranged weapons in the game before T2 raids?</p><p>I know rangers can do their epic quest and get Eagles Talon, but every other class also has access to their fabled weapon quest and has access to additional fabled weapons prior to reaching T2 raids.   </p>

<p>It's a good question actually. </p><p>Rangers are always getting the shaft as far as bows and their mechanics. With Gu44 upcoming, we will have (about time) bows scaling down like they should (no more RSB as being the best bow atm). </p><p>I'm guessing that our Fabled Epic bow is the medium between tier 1 and tier 3. Our Epic is the best bow outside VP. However, it is the only bow above group instance drops. We have zero tier 1 bow drops, and I am not sure with tier 2.</p><p>Rangers heavily rely on bows as their #1 damage producer (just like other scouts rely on their weapons). There is no doubt we need more bows to fill in the gaps.</p>

<p>The mushroomking in sebilis drops a fabled bow. There is an additional 2 or so other legendary bows.There is the new faction/rare crafted fabled bow put in lu43.The epic fabled versionThe tier 2 kor-sha drops a bowand silverwing drops a bowand of course the mythical</p><p>also the RSB is really level 74 even though its labeled 70 it was artificially inflated like a few EoF items. </p><p>So prior to tier 2+ bows</p><p>You have the heroic epic fabledthe fungusking fabledand the new crafted fabled</p><p>3 fabled bows seem like plenty for 1 tier. 1 fabled in teir 20 fabled in tier 3 (which is really only 1 named)2 fabled in tier 41 mythical in tier 4</p><p>and no idea on contested bows or tier 5.</p>

<p>The rigid scale bow is from EOF and does not count as a fabled bow for this expansion (by the same logic all lvl 70 fabled items actually act like level 74).</p><p>Admittedly I missed the one that the mushroom king drops (is it fabled or legendary) it does have nice STR (52) on it but STA also (most rangers don't look for that), no damage proc with +5 ranged.  This bow is still not an upgrade in damage (even if arrows were working properly) from  any of the EOF raid bows.  How many melee classes are still using T7 melee weapons?</p><p>Halliglooms bow of hobbling (legendary bows from KC) has +45 AGI and a slow proc, useless in a raid environment.  </p><p>Stonebow of Charisis (VoEs) - legendary 40 STR and +10 power regin with a 4.5 sec delay (great for those scouts/tanks that want a bit more power regen and don't use their bow during combat).  </p><p>The new one in GU 43 is MasterCrafted /Legendary and has STA/AGI/INT - so the bow user has to give up STR thus produces less damage - not sure about the damage it will do.</p><p>I'd like to see a bow that drops from an instance comparable to the Cardiocutter (anyone have the stats on that weapon handy).  I'd like to see a bow drop from Protector's Realm that is comparable to the melee weapons that drop in there.  </p><p>Kor-sha drops Vol'darth and that is a T2 raid - I was asking for something T1 or prior.  Isn't Silverwing from VP along with 3 other fabled bows?  </p><p>This is becoming a trend with SOE - Rangers have to wait until they have reached almost end game raid content before they get an upgrade in bows while all other Melee classes have access to useful fabled weapons prior to T1 or in T1 raid content.  </p><p>I'm discounting the Fabled Epic from my listing of bows that are available as well because every class has this fabled quest line available (while melee damage types have access to these other weapons in game as well). For 3 months after the expansion was released Rangers did not have an equivalent fabled bow to match what was in game and available to other melee classes in the form of fabled weapons prior to T2.</p>

<cite>Wodreaux@Nektulos wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>This is becoming a trend with SOE - Rangers have to wait until they have reached almost end game raid content before they get an upgrade in bows while all other Melee classes have access to useful fabled weapons prior to T1 or in T1 raid content.  </p><p>I'm discounting the Fabled Epic from my listing of bows that are available as well because every class has this fabled quest line available (while melee damage types have access to these other weapons in game as well). For 3 months after the expansion was released Rangers did not have an equivalent fabled bow to match what was in game and available to other melee classes in the form of fabled weapons prior to T2.</p></blockquote><p>Actually crusaders are in worse shape. If you expect to tank, you can't use a 2 handed weapon. Your list of usable non-raid weapons includes only your epic as a fabled weapon. The list of legendary weapons is: Nathsar Short Sword, followed closely by nothing. There are a few more legendary weapons that crusaders can use, but they arn't particularly good. Definatly nothing in the range of Cartaroid cutter/anaphlaxis which prior to the introduction of epics were the default weapons of scouts and guardians. Monks had their own fabled weapons drop in instances. </p><p>So in close, at least rangers could get decent hand weapons.</p>

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The mushroomking in sebilis drops a fabled bow. There is an additional 2 or so other legendary bows.There is the new faction/rare crafted fabled bow put in lu43.The epic fabled versionThe tier 2 kor-sha drops a bowand silverwing drops a bowand of course the mythical</p><p>also the RSB is really level 74 even though its labeled 70 it was artificially inflated like a few EoF items. </p><p>So prior to tier 2+ bows</p><p>You have the heroic epic fabledthe fungusking fabledand the new crafted fabled</p><p>3 fabled bows seem like plenty for 1 tier. 1 fabled in teir 20 fabled in tier 3 (which is really only 1 named)2 fabled in tier 41 mythical in tier 4</p><p>and no idea on contested bows or tier 5.</p></blockquote><p>Guess you don't read well. We are talking "Raid" bows and not group instanced bows or fabled bows you can get from a name with one group. </p><p>The shroom king bow is NOT a raid bow. Also, not talking about any Legendary bows since they are NOT raid bows.</p><p>So, that leaves us with, again, ZERO tier one bows (Think raid plz).  /sigh</p>

yeah it's kinda bad luck that Bows only start with T2 and then VP, but not really that big of a deal imho! Think positive, tanks right now have one single fabled towershield which drops in the 2nd wing of VP or Rogues (who stick with throwing items) they have to wait as well for VP the 2nd wing!!!could always be worse <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />One a side note, while you need to wait for T2 and VP for a bow, most scouts have nothing to look forward too when they go to VP in terms of offhand weapons!! Since everything is less then 4 seconds delay ...

<cite>Durancer@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>yeah it's kinda bad luck that Bows only start with T2 and then VP, but not really that big of a deal imho! Think positive, tanks right now have one single fabled towershield which drops in the 2nd wing of VP or Rogues (who stick with throwing items) they have to wait as well for VP the 2nd wing!!!could always be worse <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />One a side note, while you need to wait for T2 and VP for a bow, most scouts have nothing to look forward too when they go to VP in terms of offhand weapons!! Since everything is less then 4 seconds delay ...</blockquote><p>Just makes little sense not to have at least 1 tier one bow (raid).</p><p>Makes even less sense is to have over 4 VP bows. Not every ranger will ever touch VP.</p><p>Devs need to spread the wealth a little.</p>

<cite>Wodreaux@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OK - Rangers (and other thrown / range weapon users) have been told that ranged ammo is getting an upgrade in GU44 and the level of the ammo will be adjusted.  Thanks, this is appreciated.</p><p>RoK has brought about a lot more fabled items from heroic content, instances and quests than we have seen before so how about putting a couple of fabled long bows in the game, something that a ranger would actually use, prior to Tier 2 and Tier 3 raids.  The Cardiocutter is a very nice melee weapon that I've seen almost all scouts, and most fighters using before they start raiding, or until they get a better raid dropped melee weapon.  Protector's Realm has a couple of nice fabled melee weapons that drop off of some of the first mobs you encounter in the zone (meaning not the boss like most bows drop off of).  Why are their no Fabled Ranged weapons in the game <b>before T2 raids</b>?</p><p>I know rangers can do their epic quest and get Eagles Talon, but every other class also has access to their fabled weapon quest and has access to additional fabled weapons prior to reaching T2 raids.   </p></blockquote><p>The T8 Fabled Bow situation is very strange indeed. First there are only 8 of them. 4 of them drop in VP, the Tier 4 raid zone. 1 of them drops in K-S, the Tier 2 raid zone and it is SUPERIOR to all of the VP bows, at least from a pure DPS point of view. </p><p>That leaves 3 T8 Fabled Bows that you can get "before T2 raids". None of them are from a T1 raid zone. One of them is a PVP purchase and therefore not available on a PVE server. One of them is our Epic. The last one is Ironstrand, a drop from the "final" mob in Seb. However it is INFERIOR, DPS wise, to 3 Legendary ROK bows, all of which are easier to obtain than the Ironstrand. </p><p>Like others have pointed out, equipment itemization in RoK is very strange indeed.</p>

the problem goes far beyond bows, how many healer bucklers are there in rok raid zones? 2, both drop in vp. or the set armour noone wants to wear because its worse than regular raid drops (affects both class and subclass sets for most pieces, the set bonuses are not worth sacrificing a effect on each and every piece, but hey, its not the only issue with them)...or as mentioned before... the massive amount of towershields, or not enough raid dropped gear in general, i mean it cant be right if there is no good item for certain classes and certain slots from raids.

Any chance we might see a fix? Devs??

<p>aITEM 824178063 -894712297:Ironstrand/a</p><p>aITEM 682000240 -518069607:Snaggletoothed Bow/a</p><p>aITEM 529333788 -17106602:Stonebow of Charasis/a</p><p>aITEM 1464182558 1935676360:Aquatic Bow of Obedience/a</p><p>aITEM 1904960045 1115667870:Bow of Eternal Hunger/a</p><p>All T8 heroic bows. Not including the epic weapon quest for rangers or T8 crafted. Honestly look before you leap guys and gals. No they are not all fabled but everyone needs to get away from wanting fabled without raiding because its getting old.</p>

<cite>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>aITEM 824178063 -894712297:Ironstrand/a</p><p>aITEM 682000240 -518069607:Snaggletoothed Bow/a</p><p>aITEM 529333788 -17106602:Stonebow of Charasis/a</p><p>aITEM 1464182558 1935676360:Aquatic Bow of Obedience/a</p><p>aITEM 1904960045 1115667870:Bow of Eternal Hunger/a</p><p>All T8 heroic bows. Not including the epic weapon quest for rangers or T8 crafted. Honestly look before you leap guys and gals. No they are not all fabled but everyone needs to get away from wanting fabled without raiding because its getting old.</p></blockquote><p>I suggest reading before posting. We are talking about RAID type bows. Bows that can only granted via raid. (Not 1 group).</p><p>/sigh</p>

<cite>Anekuh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>aITEM 824178063 -894712297:Ironstrand/a</p><p>aITEM 682000240 -518069607:Snaggletoothed Bow/a</p><p>aITEM 529333788 -17106602:Stonebow of Charasis/a</p><p>aITEM 1464182558 1935676360:Aquatic Bow of Obedience/a</p><p>aITEM 1904960045 1115667870:Bow of Eternal Hunger/a</p><p>All T8 heroic bows. Not including the epic weapon quest for rangers or T8 crafted. Honestly look before you leap guys and gals. No they are not all fabled but everyone needs to get away from wanting fabled without raiding because its getting old.</p></blockquote><p>I suggest reading before posting. We are talking about RAID type bows. Bows that can only granted via raid. (Not 1 group).</p><p>/sigh</p></blockquote><p>Well according to the OP he is looking for heroic bows. Also some raid bows were already listed in the third reply so if you dont want those raid bows or these heroic bows what in gods name are you looking for? Anyway just because you think you are so smart I will now include RAID bows to the list so you can shut your hole and look before you leap as I have already stated.</p><p>aITEM -1228726387 -719825673<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />ragonhawk/a</p><p>aITEM 511202822 -131049441:Silvertipped Recurve/a</p><p>aITEM -2106030322 -1419690064:Vol'drath/a</p><p>aITEM -794418309 997015228:Resonating Wire/a</p><p>aITEM 1685957121 1815652551:Trueshot Recurve/a</p><p>So thats 5 fabled bows from raids, 1 fabled from heroic, and 4 legendary from heroic. Also 1 fabled epic for rangers and 1 mythical for rangers. Thats a total of 12 bows just in T8 legendary or better. There are also a handful of satchels so Im not sure why people are complaining. Sure there are more 1h weapons than bows but you have to think you have 2 hands so even if there are 24 good 1h weapons thats equal.</p><p>So now that I have read both the OP and your post and answered both I repeat look before you leap.</p>

<cite>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anekuh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>aITEM 824178063 -894712297:Ironstrand/a</p><p>aITEM 682000240 -518069607:Snaggletoothed Bow/a</p><p>aITEM 529333788 -17106602:Stonebow of Charasis/a</p><p>aITEM 1464182558 1935676360:Aquatic Bow of Obedience/a</p><p>aITEM 1904960045 1115667870:Bow of Eternal Hunger/a</p><p>All T8 heroic bows. Not including the epic weapon quest for rangers or T8 crafted. Honestly look before you leap guys and gals. No they are not all fabled but everyone needs to get away from wanting fabled without raiding because its getting old.</p></blockquote><p>I suggest reading before posting. We are talking about RAID type bows. Bows that can only granted via raid. (Not 1 group).</p><p>/sigh</p></blockquote><p>Well according to the OP he is looking for heroic bows. Also some raid bows were already listed in the third reply so if you dont want those raid bows or these heroic bows what in gods name are you looking for? Anyway just because you think you are so smart I will now include RAID bows to the list so you can shut your hole and look before you leap as I have already stated.</p><p>aITEM -1228726387 -719825673<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />ragonhawk/a</p><p>aITEM 511202822 -131049441:Silvertipped Recurve/a</p><p>aITEM -2106030322 -1419690064:Vol'drath/a</p><p>aITEM -794418309 997015228:Resonating Wire/a</p><p>aITEM 1685957121 1815652551:Trueshot Recurve/a</p><p>So thats 5 fabled bows from raids, 1 fabled from heroic, and 4 legendary from heroic. Also 1 fabled epic for rangers and 1 mythical for rangers. Thats a total of 12 bows just in T8 legendary or better. There are also a handful of satchels so Im not sure why people are complaining. Sure there are more 1h weapons than bows but you have to think you have 2 hands so even if there are 24 good 1h weapons thats equal.</p><p>So now that I have read both the OP and your post and answered both I repeat look before you leap.</p></blockquote><p>Not smart, just pointing out a fact. Why bother with bows that are below the Epic Fabled??? They are garbage really anyway. The poster is also asking why not more tier 1 and 2 RAID bows??? (He is askin the Devs btw. Get a clue). Bows that might be equal or maybe better than the group Epic version.</p><p>Do me a favor + everyone else: shut your own hole. </p>

<p>aITEM 1685957121 1815652551:Trueshot Recurve/a</p><p>aITEM -2106030322 -1419690064:Vol'drath/a</p><p>Those are both T2 raid fabled bows. One from Overking and one from VS. You are correct there are 0 fabled bows from T1 raiding and 0 from T3 raiding. So exactly what fact are you pointing out? You say why bother with fabled bows below epic and I ask you the exact same thing. Does it matter if there are any bows in the game after your epic? Most melee classes wont replace their fabled epics with any fabled weapon from T1-T4 raiding but they will use a second one in their offhand.</p><p>As for asking devs you can ask all you want but what people are trying to point out here is that they will not answer. They have given you at least 10 options for bows not including your epic. If you want to take the time to do your epic then you get a better weapon. As a MT guardian I used my T7 SoD until I finished my mythical version of my T8 epic. You think its fair that there were 0 upgrades to tanking weapons from T7-mythical T8?</p>

<p>Mages have the same exact issue with our primary and range slots.  As Kriddle says, some tanks obviously do also.</p><p>Lets all whine and be beligerant to other posters!</p>

<cite>Kriddle Kraddle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>aITEM 1685957121 1815652551:Trueshot Recurve/a</p><p>aITEM -2106030322 -1419690064:Vol'drath/a</p><p>Those are both T2 raid fabled bows. One from Overking and one from VS. You are correct there are 0 fabled bows from T1 raiding and 0 from T3 raiding. So exactly what fact are you pointing out? You say why bother with fabled bows below epic and I ask you the exact same thing. Does it matter if there are any bows in the game after your epic? Most melee classes wont replace their fabled epics with any fabled weapon from T1-T4 raiding but they will use a second one in their offhand.</p><p>As for asking devs you can ask all you want but what people are trying to point out here is that they will not answer. They have given you at least 10 options for bows not including your epic. If you want to take the time to do your epic then you get a better weapon. As a MT guardian I used my T7 SoD until I finished my mythical version of my T8 epic. You think its fair that there were 0 upgrades to tanking weapons from T7-mythical T8?</p></blockquote><p>I'm not going to disagree with you on 0 upgrades for tanking weapons, but rangers are so dependant on our one item: bows.</p><p>To have zero bows in tier 1 is plain stupid and only 2 in tier 2. As for melee replacing fabled epics, I am not sure since they use 2 weapons instead of 1. At least they have a couple that drop in the tier 1-2 (Betryal's, Serrated, Throatripper, Dissector....)</p>

<cite>Anekuh wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote><p>I'm not going to disagree with you on 0 upgrades for tanking weapons, but rangers are so dependant on our one item: bows.</p><p>To have zero bows in tier 1 is plain stupid and only 2 in tier 2. As for melee replacing fabled epics, I am not sure since they use 2 weapons instead of 1. At least they have a couple that drop in the tier 1-2 (Betryal's, Serrated, Throatripper, Dissector....)</p></blockquote>Point is, they really don't need to add a T1 bow.Should mages demand symbol a from T2/T3/T4?  Because aITEM 496583315 -725785211:Statischer Feld-Projektor/a from T1 isn't a symbol it's a slap in the face with a chance of a Crystallised Mana.Don't get me wrong, I'm <b>not </b>saying that other classes have it worse off and that's why you should not get what you want. I just really don't think what you're asking for is even needed. For just about every class a bow is a stat bonus (preferably with some sort of effect that works for melee attacks), sure, a good max hit is nice too so a tank bow pulling gets that little bit more, or to get a bit more damage in while jousting. BUT, there are enough bows elsewhere to cover for the absense in T1.There are a lot more things that Rangers should be asking for than worrying about a T1 bow, that will if added probably be worse than your Fabled epic, or possibly worse than what's available from heroic instances.There are a lot of 1h weapons that drop throughout T1 and T2. Most raids have around 10 scouts? and how many of those are rangers?  for my guild 0, for many other guilds there's 0 too.  That's a lot of people that can use another 1h, and few that really care about another bow.The last thing we all need is more loot to transmute further removing the chances of something useful dropping.

<cite>Kaizan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anekuh wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote><p>I'm not going to disagree with you on 0 upgrades for tanking weapons, but rangers are so dependant on our one item: bows.</p><p>To have zero bows in tier 1 is plain stupid and only 2 in tier 2. As for melee replacing fabled epics, I am not sure since they use 2 weapons instead of 1. At least they have a couple that drop in the tier 1-2 (Betryal's, Serrated, Throatripper, Dissector....)</p></blockquote>Point is, they really don't need to add a T1 bow.Should mages demand symbol a from T2/T3/T4?  Because aITEM 496583315 -725785211:Statischer Feld-Projektor/a from T1 isn't a symbol it's a slap in the face with a chance of a Crystallised Mana.Don't get me wrong, I'm <b>not </b>saying that other classes have it worse off and that's why you should not get what you want. I just really don't think what you're asking for is even needed. For just about every class a bow is a stat bonus (preferably with some sort of effect that works for melee attacks), sure, a good max hit is nice too so a tank bow pulling gets that little bit more, or to get a bit more damage in while jousting. BUT, there are enough bows elsewhere to cover for the absense in T1.There are a lot more things that Rangers should be asking for than worrying about a T1 bow, that will if added probably be worse than your Fabled epic, or possibly worse than what's available from heroic instances.There are a lot of 1h weapons that drop throughout T1 and T2. Most raids have around 10 scouts? and how many of those are rangers?  <b><u>for my guild 0, for many other guilds there's 0 too.</u></b>  That's a lot of people that can use another 1h, and few that really care about another bow.The last thing we all need is more loot to transmute further removing the chances of something useful dropping.</blockquote><p>And yes, there is a major reason why your guild has zero rangers. Our dps is not good in comparison to other classes. (That's another thread: check test forum Arrow issue)</p><p>Bows are everything to a ranger. Most of our damage comes from our ranged auto attack. Rangers will not do well in the dps in comparison to assassins because of the lack of early raid tier 1 bows. We have to wait until we start killing end bosses in tier 2.</p><p>Having a RSB is great (and not ever ranger has one), but the bow itself is flawed and will be nerfed this upcoming GU. The only other decent bow we can get before tier 2 is the Epic Fabled. That's it. Just one bow. The rest below are not even worth mentioning. So, rangers get screwed again and our dps suffers (thus causing guilds to drop them from raids).</p>