I'm sure they would do but:Here are some great mistakes on LU24. <b>    1º - Is pretending to bring back chanters to be a wanted class</b>a - I NEVER have say no to a chanter whenever I was trying to build a group. b - There are too few chanters. So it will be really hard to find a free chanter. c - The real problem cause there are so few chanters if the class concept. (It's Devs fault) cause most people find more funny to play a Sorceror or Predator or Figther or... And all cause the class concept and spells. <b>    2º - Is pretending to bring back summoners to their tier.</b>Ok do that but not nerfing summoners. Bring the rest of the classes to their real places. Power up all the classes and let summoners like they are. All happy. <b>    3º - Is pretending to stop groups to be able to ever stuns mobs...</b>there are so few times we did it. Most times one or more stuns were up on the mobs at the same time (so at least one of them is wasted) It's not soo ease to do that. Stuns are a too important too for groups to take control of a situation. Most of us are not Uber players fully fabled. May be some hardcore ubers players complains about EQ2 is a too ease game. I did not and I never will do that. EQ2 is not a ease game. If you do a bad pull most of the times you are death.     It's not too hard to find a good challenge in EQ2. Most players are Casual players with non full fabled gear. so most players find EQ2 challenging enought. With the next LU 24 most classes will be nerf. MOST of them. So the game will be too hard for most of us.     I tryed to do the last trial of the MoA and I find it a real nigthmare. Then I learned EQ2 is a game designed for real hardcore players and most of it's content is designed for them.    I do not find it fair cause most players are casual players. Casual players that keep paying their account each mounth<div></div>     So please. Do not release this LU that nearly no one likes and will make this game a too hard to be played game. Please, just remember that. We all are not uber players with our great flabled gear.

<DIV>Perhaps this patch's real purpose is to reduce Lag caused by people logging on and playing? :smileywink:</DIV>

Please DO release LU24, and as soon as possible as I and many others are eagerly looking forward to the changes it introduces.<div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>enrique_tome wrote:<BR><B>   1º - Is pretending to bring back chanters to be a wanted class</B><BR>a - I NEVER have say no to a chanter whenever I was trying to build a group.<BR>b - There are too few chanters. So it will be really hard to find a free chanter.<BR>c - The real problem cause there are so few chanters if the class concept. (It's Devs fault) cause most people find more funny to play a Sorceror or Predator or Figther or... And all cause the class concept and spells.</P> <P><STRONG>...</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>   3º - Is pretending to stop groups to be able to ever stuns mobs...<BR></STRONG>there are so few times we did it. Most times one or more stuns were up on the mobs at the same time (so at least one of them is wasted) It's not soo ease to do that. Stuns are a too important too for groups to take control of a situation. Most of us are not Uber players fully fabled. May be some hardcore ubers players complains about EQ2 is a too ease game. I did not and I never will do that. EQ2 is not a ease game. If you do a bad pull most of the times you are death.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I haven't played with the changes, so all of these comments are just opinions.  I played an illusionist prior to LU 13 when I could completely drain the mob of power and keep them stunned a large portion of the fight.  I felt like I contributed a lot to the group.  Since KOS, I admit I haven't played my illusionist very much but I don't have that same sense of contribution that I did.  I know that durations are being shortened, but when a normal group can keep a mob stunned 75%+ of the time (I do it all the time with guild groups and coordinated stuns) there is no need for a chanter...  SOE keeps saying it, and everyone keeps hating it, but this really does have to be done for the longevity of the game.  It's not going to be fun or easy, and it may not be perfect the first time around, but this isn't the end of the world catastroph most people are making it out to be.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> enrique_tome wrote:<BR>I'm sure they would do but:<BR><BR><B>   2º - Is pretending to bring back summoners to their tier.</B><BR>Ok do that but not nerfing summoners. Bring the rest of the classes to their real places. Power up all the classes and let summoners like they are. All happy. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Unfortunately, you can't just beef up every class that needs help for a few reasons.  One, its either adjust summoners down a little, or adjust warlocks, wizards, illusionists, coercers, assassins, rangers, brigands, etc etc up.  But then, they are doing too much damage for fighters to control, so you have to adjust all 6 fighter classes.  But then, the groups eat orange heroics without thinking twice, so you have to adjust all the NPCs.  Then the healers can't keep up and they have to get twinked too!  Next thing you know, you've redone the entire game because two classes didn't like being adjusting...</P> <P>You can't have a continuous upward spiral...it just doesn't work.</P> <P>This update isn't the end of the world, and I don't see the max exitous that people are claiming...everyone just loves to be drama queens on the forums.  Live and learn and keep playing...<BR></P>

<DIV><EM><STRONG>Please DO release LU24, and as soon as possible as I and many others are eagerly looking forward to the changes it introduces</STRONG></EM>.<BR></DIV> <DIV>.....someones definitely not a troub...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

<blockquote><hr>Fildarum wrote:<DIV><EM><STRONG>Please DO release LU24, and as soon as possible as I and many others are eagerly looking forward to the changes it introduces</STRONG></EM>.<BR></DIV><DIV>.....someones definitely not a troub...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>I'd say wizard or tradeskiller.

please release the lu, or don't but take a decision so i wont' see mindless posts like the OP did

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fildarum wrote:<BR> <DIV><EM><STRONG>Please DO release LU24, and as soon as possible as I and many others are eagerly looking forward to the changes it introduces</STRONG></EM>.<BR></DIV> <DIV>.....someones definitely not a troub...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Id be guessing a PvP Coecer from Nagafen server.......boy is he in for a shock when some of these changes hit him on PvP, but wait, he thinks these changes wont effect PvP servers. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>These changes are going to make some of your PvP spells even worse, and we all know how the rulesets work on PvP before you start rambling on about that too, which is why there about to be changed again, unless they just for some reason dont decide to put LU24 on PvP servers which i highly doubt.</P> <P>I been reading about Enchanters utility after this, and its getting nerfed overall with a hint of raid utility that wont even decide the out come of a raid. I say this because i also have a lvl 70 Illusionist 50 aa along with my Zerker who is also 70 / 50, so naturally i was worried about where Enchanters would be going with this LU.</P> <P>This is a gamewide change with a attempt at percieving people that there is a good trade off for it, which there clearly isnt. Its easier for them to adjust stuns then to go through the game and adjust mobs behaviour to said control abilites.</P>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkLegacy2005 wrote:<BR>This looks like a step in the right direction. And it may be just that, a step... we may have a hike yet to go.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, in 2 maybe 3 years more time, it might be where it was suppose to be on launch in 2004......<BR>

<DIV>Too many changes for minority raiders and thus you are hitting soloers too hard.</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> enrique_tome wrote:<BR>    It's not too hard to find a good challenge in EQ2. Most players are Casual players with non full fabled gear. so most players find EQ2 challenging enought. With the next LU 24 most classes will be nerf. MOST of them. So the game will be too hard for most of us....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When we make a change to major gameplay systems--especially when we call out how the change will affect raids--there are some who assume that we are doing it solely for the sake of raiders. Trust me, if all we wanted to do was make raids tougher, we could do that without making changes to core mechanics.</P> <P>We don't balance the game around players in full fabled. If we want a certain encounter or instance to require that quality of gear, we'll design the encounter or instance that way--not the whole of the game.</P> <P>Control abilities are an issue at all levels of play, not just raids. As such, we did a system-wide revamp of how they impact gameplay across the board.</P> <P>We don't make such changes lightly, but we do them when we believe they will be better for the game overall. LU13 included extensive changes to combat that took some time to adjust to, but the game ended up being better off. With LU24, there will again be a period of adjustment for some classes, though others will see little impact.</P> <P>Again, this is neither the case of nerfing the majority for the sake of a couple classes, nor is it an attempt to make the game harder for a small percentage of our players. It is about making control abilities more meaningful and equitable throughout the whole game. That is the goal, and why we feel these changes are needed.</P>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> enrique_tome wrote:<BR><BR><BR><B>    2º - Is pretending to bring back summoners to their tier.</B><BR>Ok do that but not nerfing summoners. Bring the rest of the classes to their real places. Power up all the classes and let summoners like they are. All happy. <BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>the problem with this idea is that for one mobs die way too fast already, and 2 it is much easier programatically to lower 1 class to where they should be than to raise up 23 other classes and then be forced to raise up all mobs in order to compensate. this would leave them in the same place as it would be if they just lowered summoners. <BR>

Fildarum wrote:Please DO release LU24, and as soon as possible as I and many others are eagerly looking forward to the changes it introduces......someones definitely not a troub...My thoughts exactly. I'm failing to see how any change (reduction) in Troubador abilities is going to balance things for the good of the game overall.Zooo70 Troubador of Permafrost

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MugnMobs wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> SOE keeps saying it, and everyone keeps hating it, but this really does have to be done for the longevity of the game.  It's not going to be fun or easy, and it may not be perfect the first time around, but this isn't the end of the world catastroph most people are making it out to be.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This update isn't the end of the world, and I don't see the max exitous that people are claiming...everyone just loves to be drama queens on the forums.  Live and learn and keep playing...<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A 1 second duration nerf to stuns and such isn't going to make the game un-playable to anybody.  EQ2 is way way way to easy as it is.  When you have people that leveled from 60 to 70 in less than 5 days after the release of KoS you know there is a problem.</P> <P>These changes add some more challenge to the game but don't make it un-playable or too challenging.  Geez, give things a try, if its really that bad things will be tweaked. </P>

<div><blockquote><hr>bongotez wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> enrique_tome wrote:<b>    2º - Is pretending to bring back summoners to their tier.</b>Ok do that but not nerfing summoners. Bring the rest of the classes to their real places. Power up all the classes and let summoners like they are. All happy.  <hr> </blockquote>the problem with this idea is that for one mobs die way too fast already, <hr></blockquote>Unless it's trash mobs in a raid zone made by Zliten! <span><span>:smileywink:(Bah, Feithen made me infamous for something I never said, might as well live it up.)</span></span></div>

I'm an Alchemist, and a Troubador. Alchemists are the tradeskill class that are hanging over the edge more than any of the others since a big part of our money comes from subcombines (inks, extracts, etc), our potions are made out of leftovers form those inks (loams) which will get changed all around. It used to be in order to make a rare poison we would need to make an ink, get the loam, and turn the loam into 21 uses of potion or poison. Now it would seem that in order to make a rare poison or potion we need a dust that comes from making a PRISTINE adept3 and that produces only 10 uses of potion or poison. This could potentially hurt alchemists very much if SOE doesn't get it right.Troubadors are losing much of their control abilities, the extent of which I'm not going to get into since it's all over these forums.And let me tell you, I'm so looking forward to these changes. Surprised? Well, I like things to be fixed. Coercers needed some fixing, they were broken. It's their turn to get fixed, hopefully the next one will be troub's turn to be fixed. We all know about the flavor of the month idea... A class will be awesome, until it gets nerfed. And every class WILL get nerfed. So just accept it. It's our turn to get nerfed. If they nerf us really badly they'll realize how broken we are and get back to fixing us. The intentions of all of their changes are great. I don't think anyone can logically argue against their intentions. So if they manage to get things working up to what they intend by release date, it's all good. And if they totally bork alchemists and troubs over, well that's great too! I like playing a troub because I'm so rare, I look forward to being the only troub on my server!*in case you didn't notice, much of the above post was sarcasm. In truth I do think the idea of these changes are great, I just think that they way they are being implemented are very concerning. However, I survived SWG. These devs are smarter than the SWG devs, so I have faith that they won't screw it up as badly as SWG. I hope they don't prove me wrong*<div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlueSun wrote:<BR>I'm an Alchemist, and a Troubador. <BR><BR>Alchemists are the tradeskill class that are hanging over the edge more than any of the others since a big part of our money comes from subcombines (inks, extracts, etc), our potions are made out of leftovers form those inks (loams) which will get changed all around. It used to be in order to make a rare poison we would need to make an ink, get the loam, and turn the loam into 21 uses of potion or poison. Now it would seem that in order to make a rare poison or potion we need a dust that comes from making a PRISTINE adept3 and that produces only 10 uses of potion or poison. This could potentially hurt alchemists very much if SOE doesn't get it right.<BR><BR>Troubadors are losing much of their control abilities, the extent of which I'm not going to get into since it's all over these forums.<BR><BR>And let me tell you, I'm so looking forward to these changes. Surprised? Well, I like things to be fixed. Coercers needed some fixing, they were broken. It's their turn to get fixed, hopefully the next one will be troub's turn to be fixed. We all know about the flavor of the month idea... A class will be awesome, until it gets nerfed. And every class WILL get nerfed. So just accept it. It's our turn to get nerfed. If they nerf us really badly they'll realize how broken we are and get back to fixing us. The intentions of all of their changes are great. I don't think anyone can logically argue against their intentions. So if they manage to get things working up to what they intend by release date, it's all good. And if they totally bork alchemists and troubs over, well that's great too! I like playing a troub because I'm so rare, I look forward to being the only troub on my server!<BR><BR>*in case you didn't notice, much of the above post was sarcasm. In truth I do think the idea of these changes are great, I just think that they way they are being implemented are very concerning. However, I survived SWG. These devs are smarter than the SWG devs, so I have faith that they won't screw it up as badly as SWG. I hope they don't prove me wrong*<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The problem with this is that Coercers are even more broken after LU24 than they are now.  This is a major NERF to coercer's (especially crowd control abilities and ability to do any damage) in exchange for being able to momentarily stun an epic mob some day - oh, if it doesn't outright resist and then instantly kill me.</P> <P>There are numerous threads of outrage on the Coercer class boards from folks who actually play on test.  My only hope is that SOE actually listens to the people who are testing this update and take the time to get it right.  There are a few good things in the update my trade-skiller can hardly wait to see.  I can say, as a coercer, assasin and bruiser I'm not excited about the sweeping nerfs to my characters abilities to contribute to group play.</P>

Moorguard I'm sure you can say that after LU13 the whole of the Warlock class was pleased with the changes, I think not.  There was nothing good with those changes for our class and lord knows we beat it do death and every parse post the community could come up with fell on deaf ears at SoE.  And now we have LU24 wich will strain even more from this class which is in serious need of help, at some point you guys got to start thinking the players need a break and give them a bone.  A hungry dog only stays loyal for so long.

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <P>We don't balance the game around players in full fabled. If we want a certain encounter or instance to require that quality of gear, we'll design the encounter or instance that way--not the whole of the game.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Halls of Fate is one of example, is especially designed for Fabled Gear players (for minority of minority)</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:22 PM</span>

<DIV>The biggest mistake .... or  just the dumbest plan on this update is the stun/mez nerf .. the devs are trying to justify it so u cant keep a mob totally inmobile and paralized the whole fight cuz its not right ..... um....... maybe if the devs actually knew something about MMORP  then YES IT IS RIGHT!!! thats why the enc is a CROWD CONTROL  class thats their purpose ... thats the reason for a mez/stun ... IS TO MEZ THE MOB ...... its absolutly right for an enc to be able to (if no resists or breaks) be able to hold a mob at bay  thats why they have those spells ......  i really wish EQ2 devs would start researching and teaching themselves what a MMORPG  game really is and just why theres different classes to play instead of listening to all the whining newbs that   complain cuz they  cant do everything that every other class does (AKA im a zerker or pally  and cant tank as good as a guard) YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO !!</DIV><p>Message Edited by kstangcobra on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 PM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <P>We don't balance the game around players in full fabled. If we want a certain encounter or instance to require that quality of gear, we'll design the encounter or instance that way--not the whole of the game.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Halls of Fate is one of example, is especially designed for Fabled Gear players (for minority of minority)</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by selch on <SPAN class=date_text>05-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:22 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Halls of fate isn't that hard... it was.. till people complained and got it nerfed over and over again.</P> <P><BR>Now its a walk in the park like the rest of the game....</P> <P> </P> <P>Only thing hard about HoF (and its not even that hard) are the named that are immune to stun</P>

honestly what is eq2 coming to ....  a nice little  game where all the classes are cookie cutter images of each other .... i want to see a wizzy drop group mobs quick with huge nukes that actually show up on the mobs health bar .. i wat to see a SK take out a gigantic chunk with his HT  i want to see the guard be able to  avoid and mit the best i want to see a bard run faster then anyone else and be able to kite 10 mobs and if they are good enough kill them all ... and yes i want to see an ENC  be able to mez 5 adds while the group clears to them ... i want to see  the classes do what they are supposed to  do ...  i want raids where if u dont have a kiter or mezzer u are hurting  add some dam strad  thats based on what classes u bring with u to this game and act like everquest started the MMORPG world ... not just hey lets raid this ... ok  need a healer .. tank ... and anyhting else its fine just dps it down its all the same  <p>Message Edited by kstangcobra on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span>

The way i see it & it was stated by SOE these changes are so mobs don't stay locked down as much & they can then cod mobs that don't one hit kill fully fabed players when they do have a chance to fight back, the prob is all the high end mobs are already coded this way & making these changes without changing the mobs as well is going to lead to an even bigger gap of the haves & have nots, the haves that are mostly in high end raid guilds will be able to move forward & all the ppl in lower guilds will have that much more of a hard time breaking into high end zones. Players needed the stuns & mezz's in order to controll mobs that are VERY over powered but with this change to players & not the mobs it will get even harder. while i agree there needed to be some change what i think also needs to be done is change the mobs so they are not so over powered as they are not in order to deal with players locking them do so much, so in the end i'll just say to Moonguard & SOE i agree with the changes coming down but you also need to take a look at the way mobs are now & make changes there to. <div></div>

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cecil_Strife wrote:<BR> <P>Halls of fate isn't that hard... it was.. till people complained and got it nerfed over and over again.</P> <P><BR>Now its a walk in the park like the rest of the game....</P> <P>Only thing hard about HoF (and its not even that hard) are the named that are immune to stun</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>They didnt touch it, it is you got more gear by time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

You may not want to admit but HoF has been stealth nerfed more then once, I ran this zone in beta in near full fabled with the devs and it got toned down it was pretty harsh then.  After release it was toned down a few weeks into the expansion after SoE realized just how restricted the zone was to high end players, the zone used to be a challenge even in decent gear if you didnt keep mobs properly debuffed and watch your tank status effects you would have issue.  Now grps can go in with crafted t 7 gear and clear the zone with little trouble.

Part of the problem is that when LU 13 changed everything there was not alot of difficulty adapting since it came out with a new expansion.  Hence a majority of us were not faced with fighting the same encounters with a new combat system thereby comparing outcomes.  However, with LU 24, we will in fact be taking on the same exact enounters that we have been used to for quite some time but with a different combat system (to some extent).  This means fights with the <i>same</i> encounters will be significantly different and in many cases much more difficult.  It is going to be like taking on a heroic encounter with your group and everyone deciding to take off half their gear to make it more challenging.  That doesn't sound like fun.I am not saying LU24 should not happen.  To be honest, I don't know whether it should or not.  However, I am saying that this change will be much less received than LU13.<div></div>

<div><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Moorgard wrote: <div></div> <p>We don't balance the game around players in full fabled. If we want a certain encounter or instance to require that quality of gear, we'll design the encounter or instance that way--not the whole of the game.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Halls of Fate is one of example, is especially designed for Fabled Gear players (for minority of minority)</div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">05-23-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:22 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>This is exactly true!!!  HoF was designed only for players with Fabled Gear.  You need at least T5 Fabled gear to get anywhere in that zone....Sure, fabled gear helps, but that zone is completely doable by a group that doesnt have a single piece of T7 fabled gear.  </div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <P>We don't balance the game around players in full fabled. If we want a certain encounter or instance to require that quality of gear, we'll design the encounter or instance that way--not the whole of the game.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Halls of Fate is one of example, is especially designed for Fabled Gear players (for minority of minority)</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by selch on <SPAN class=date_text>05-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:22 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guild isnt decked in full fabled at all and we surive HoF. HoF is far to easy and i hope LU24 will make it more challenging.

The biggest problem i with EQ2 is the constant changing of the game mechanics. Ive no idea if these u24 are good or bad changes but it just seems my chanter is becoming too much trouble to bother with anymore.The other thing is the game just seems to become more artifical in its mechanics - solo,heroic,epic contexts are a bad idea in the first place imho. The abilities that dont work on some mobs just cos they are epics have been a bone of contention for ages for me and now we're getting 'immunity timers' etc. The combat system in this game just becomes a nightmare of complexity and mechanisms. I garantee when the u24 arrives there'll be a whole host of new bugs and problems that will occur and these just seem to layer on the other issues that never seems to get addressed.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <P>We don't balance the game around players in full fabled. If we want a certain encounter or instance to require that quality of gear, we'll design the encounter or instance that way--not the whole of the game.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Halls of Fate is one of example, is especially designed for Fabled Gear players (for minority of minority)</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by selch on <SPAN class=date_text>05-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:22 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ha ha ha!  You're kidding right?</P> <P>My regular group finished HoF on a PvP server six weeks after the server began.  Half of us we not even level 70, we had a brusier tanking and none of us had any fabled gear, or had even set foot into a raid zone.  </P>