<DIV><U>Here are the main problems with these two classes</U>:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Carpentry:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Some furniture looks the same throughout tiers.</LI> <LI>Most furniture made by a carpenter can be bought at an NPC vendor for a fraction of the price.</LI> <LI>Shelves stick backwards in the walls.</LI> <LI>Some rugs stick upwards off the ground.</LI> <LI>Tier 5 Strongboxes are the exact same as Tier 4 Strongboxes.</LI> <LI>Impossible to get rare woods for furniture unless you harvest it your self. Having severed fir for a heritage item makes the price sky rocket.</LI> <LI>Only have up to Tier 2 woodworking skills which we need for every piece of lumber we make.</LI> <LI>Bugged reaction buttons that do not do what they say.</LI></UL> <P>Alchemy:</P> <UL> <LI>Making washes, oils, resins, or tempers are useless as ANYONE can make them. Let alone, just as well as us.</LI> <LI>Impossible to sell these chemicals.</LI> <LI>Potions and posions still suck.</LI> <LI>Selling essences is a stroke of luck.</LI> <LI>Poisons from NPCs are better than that made of a player.</LI> <LI>No one buys ink any more either, as sages can make their own.</LI></UL> <P> </P> <P>So that's almost 61 wasted levels, thanks SoE.</P>

you're welcome

<DIV>Carpenter here, just want to say I concur. Don't add please SOE, fix! Anyone notice the drop in people tradeskilling the last day or two? On the other hand, you got money coming in by the dump truck full, not much incentive really to do much of anything I'd say. </DIV>

<DIV>This has been resolved</DIV><p>Message Edited by fmjim on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:02 AM</span>

you're all welcome

<DIV>Thank you for contributing to this thread SinR. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pssst sign me up for tehubah d00dz club!!111! too....</DIV>

<DIV>Roast me if you like but I seem to be lucky.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I only really play one character a 22nd Templar who is 21st Tailor atm. I craft my own backpacks and sell the non-pristines which keeps me busy enough to lvl as a crafter the same slow way I lvl as an adventurer and brings some coin to. I have to admit that I make more money on drops though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My 11th warrior/ 14th craftsman makes  food and drink which still seems sufficient enough for my 22nd templar who harvests the raws in return so I guess I could even make some money I'd spend an evening exclusively at the stove.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still have a 11th scout, 11th artisan whom I dumped (he should have made spell upgrades for my templar but its way to much time to lvlv him to scribe and I can always buy  app IV for 40-80 silver). If I ever decide to play him again thiugh I could  easily supply him with crafted armor and food. I'd probaby lvl him to a scribe and he'll do a good job for himself and the templar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So for my small *family* everything works fine but probably only because I see crafting as a way to support myself and not to make money......</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tradeskill_Addict on <span class=date_text>03-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:16 AM</span>

<DIV>Ah SinR likes to Troll I see. So why don't ya change your Ogre avatar to a Troll. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back on  topic. I don't have anything but a Provisioner at the moment. Got it to 34 and said screw it. Since retiring my provisioner I've made 2 plat in a week just from selling harvested items and shiny (?'s) I find on the ground.  Only harvest for like 3-4 hours a day too. No way in hell I could make that much selling tier 4 food/drink during a week. Hope they fix all crafting issues so that crafting becomes fun for everyone again.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Suraklin on <span class=date_text>03-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:48 AM</span>

<DIV>In response to tradeskill_addict. I am happy for you that it's working well for you. I think we will all agree that T1-T3 are nice. It's really when you start getting into T4/T5 that most classes turn into money sinks. Just to clarify what i was saying. However, I do wish you the best in that you can stay self sefficiant. </DIV>

A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><BR>As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P> <P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $<BR></P></FONT>

<blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P><P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $</P></FONT><hr></blockquote>This is my only source of income...I use alchemy to support my armorer, my carpenter, my fighter, and to make some profit along the way. What's so wrong with this?<p>Message Edited by Odissius on <span class=date_text>03-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:54 AM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><BR>As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P> <P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $<BR></P></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>This is my only source of income...I use alchemy to support my armorer, my carpenter, my fighter, and to make some profit along the way. What's so wrong with this? <P>Message Edited by Odissius on <SPAN class=date_text>03-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:54 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There's nothing wrong with this - play as you like.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but the game was simply not designed the way that crafters produce income for adventurers. And it was certainly not designed to make crafters rich.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so stop complaining - this game is about characters, not money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I consider myself Mr. average casual unguilded mediocre player. And even I see no problems in making my toon to a lvl 50 templar/ lvl 50 tailor by the time the game will allow lvls 51+ (AND enjoying the way to 50)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So why should anyone else do?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

As a 34 Alchemist I've really started to appreciate the adventure side of the game now. It's pretty fun outside the Tradeskill dungeon and I thank SoE for utterly destroying my Artisan class and forcing me to discover the other 1/2 of the game./sarcasm offThere really needs something to be done for Alchemists so we have a better market for our wares. There are way way WAY too many Adept 1's out there, and trying to compete in the Adept III market is tough.Alchemist created Potions and Poisons need to go through the same revital process Food/Drink did. Lets get all that crap off the NPC vendors, or make our player made versions so much better Players will take notice.Where are Adept II's, Master II's or Master III components? When will these advanced forms of spells become available for players to make?

<blockquote><hr>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Tradeskill_Addict wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><BR>As for carpentry, that's for the the Devs to fix.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This sounds like you choose alchemy to make money not to supply your toons with stuff they need. </P><P>if this is really so, you are playing the wrong came - its called<FONT color=#ff9900> Everquest 2</FONT>, not <FONT color=#99ff00>$ TRADESKILL TYCOON IV $<BR></P></FONT><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>This is my only source of income...I use alchemy to support my armorer, my carpenter, my fighter, and to make some profit along the way. What's so wrong with this?<P>Message Edited by Odissius on <SPAN class=date_text>03-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:54 AM</SPAN><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>There's nothing wrong with this - play as you like.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>but the game was simply not designed the way that crafters produce income for adventurers. And it was certainly not designed to make crafters rich.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>so stop complaining - this game is about characters, not money.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I consider myself Mr. average casual unguilded mediocre player. And even I see no problems in making my toon to a lvl 50 templar/ lvl 50 tailor by the time the game will allow lvls 51+ (AND enjoying the way to 50)</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>So why should anyone else do?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>You won't see my point until you hit atleast a Tier 3 Alchemist, you therefore have nothing to contribute to this thread....unless you happen to have a carpenter.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR><BR>You won't see my point until you hit atleast a Tier 3 Alchemist, you therefore have nothing to contribute to this thread....unless you happen to have a carpenter.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>quite funny - and you wont see my point until you are done with the money sims and try a fantasy role-playing game :smileyvery-happy:<BR>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>That doesn't fix Alchemy at all.  Potions need a huge overhaul, since they are currently utterly useless.  Poisons need some tweaks to make them sufficiently better than those you can buy from NPC vendors.   Your fix doesn't solve the problem of low demand for poisons, potions, or fighter app4s, all it does is allow alchemists to dominate the WROT and Ink market again.   That isn't why I chose Alchemy as a tradeskill.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV>

As a side note, Alchemists have no buyback loopholes to exploit from a vendor. Their combat essences are an irregular demand item, same for poisons and potions. Chemicals are consistently needed and used, but the demand for them is now gone because everyone can make them. In order to raise the demand, a simple raising of the fuel costs from 1 to 2 fuels for non alchemists will allow alchemists even at tier 5 to make a little bit of money selling them. It comes out to just over 1gp once you do the math to sell chemicals to all artisans at break even costs for them and profits for the alchemist. That would be a perfect world IMO...

<blockquote><hr>Amise wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>That doesn't fix Alchemy at all. Potions need a huge overhaul, since they are currently utterly useless. Poisons need some tweaks to make them sufficiently better than those you can buy from NPC vendors. Your fix doesn't solve the problem of low demand for poisons, potions, or fighter app4s, all it does is allow alchemists to dominate the WROT and Ink market again. That isn't why I chose Alchemy as a tradeskill.</FONT></DIV><DIV></FONT> </DIV><DIV></FONT> </DIV><hr></blockquote>I agree completely. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

A rather simple solution would be to increase the timers on the Potion buffs. I've found some great potions, but they only last like 2 mintuts, or at best 15 minutes. Now most of these were off rare potions (Patterned Glass) which is not easily found. With the Alchemist changes we're now fairly useless and the only option I see that could save us would be increasing the usefullness of Potions.Some very easy fixes to immediatly increase player use of potions would be:1. Increase potion timers from 2-15 minutes to 30-60 minutes, or increase the charges dramatically to make these viable for players to use.2. Allow potions and poison vials of the same kind to stack inside bags like food/drink currently can.3. Remove NPC poisons from the game, or at minimum please reduce their effect like you did for NPC Food/Drink.4. Add rare alchemist drops to make even more rare potions/poisons (example Drakota Blood).

<blockquote><hr>Baelzharon wrote:A rather simple solution would be to increase the timers on the Potion buffs. I've found some great potions, but they only last like 2 mintuts, or at best 15 minutes. Now most of these were off rare potions (Patterned Glass) which is not easily found. With the Alchemist changes we're now fairly useless and the only option I see that could save us would be increasing the usefullness of Potions.Some very easy fixes to immediatly increase player use of potions would be:1. Increase potion timers from 2-15 minutes to 30-60 minutes, or increase the charges dramatically to make these viable for players to use.2. Allow potions and poison vials of the same kind to stack inside bags like food/drink currently can.3. Remove NPC poisons from the game, or at minimum please reduce their effect like you did for NPC Food/Drink.4. Add rare alchemist drops to make even more rare potions/poisons (example Drakota Blood).<hr></blockquote>Great post, fixing these potions and posions will be great for my adventurer...if they can make them comparable to Morrowind III: The Elder Scrolls we will definitely have a winner.

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I see people saying this is a stupid idea but I'd love to see how they feel if everyone could buy  a book and put in double the fuel and make pristine armor, pristine weapons, pristine back packs etc, then the shoe would be on the other foot because it would negatively effect you as it did alchemists.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The WORTs were my main market before the patch, which now is almost totally dead.  Friday night I crafted a ton of T4 WORTs and went into trader mode until Sunay night.  I had about 10 stacks an only 1 stack sold, and I was the lowest price listed all weekend.  I finally sold them when I advertised in the trade channel I was going to sell to the vendor and basically sold them for a few copper over what I had in making them.  Before someone says it does not cost that much to make them, let me see you drop your prices of your pristine armor, weapons, back packs etc, to what it costs to make them, otherwise shut it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the idea of non-alchemist produced inks being lower than pristine is a valid idea.  That way people can still make their own inks for grinding exp and alchemists would still have a market for their pristine inks.</DIV>

<blockquote><hr>Gathis wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR> Odissius wrote:<BR>A fix could work for alchemy like this, let me know your opinions:<BR><BR>Remove the recipes for all chemicals from everyone else, while leaving in inks, but only allowing them to be crafted up to shaped ink...this should definitely put us back in business.<BR><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>I see people saying this is a stupid idea but I'd love to see how they feel if everyone could buy a book and put in double the fuel and make pristine armor, pristine weapons, pristine back packs etc, then the shoe would be on the other foot because it would negatively effect you as it did alchemists. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The WORTs were my main market before the patch, which now is almost totally dead. Friday night I crafted a ton of T4 WORTs and went into trader mode until Sunay night. I had about 10 stacks an only 1 stack sold, and I was the lowest price listed all weekend. I finally sold them when I advertised in the trade channel I was going to sell to the vendor and basically sold them for a few copper over what I had in making them. Before someone says it does not cost that much to make them, let me see you drop your prices of your pristine armor, weapons, back packs etc, to what it costs to make them, otherwise shut it.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I think the idea of non-alchemist produced inks being lower than pristine is a valid idea. That way people can still make their own inks for grinding exp and alchemists would still have a market for their pristine inks.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I completely agree...I would love to buy a book and make my own armor and laugh in their faces! But, I would much rather have everything the same as before the interdependency nerf.

carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<a href=http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_a scending&page=1 target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</a><a href=http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=470 41&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 target=_blank> more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</a>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more...../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bleusong wrote:<BR>carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_a scending&page=1" target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</A><BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=470 41&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</A><BR><BR>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more..<BR><BR>.../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Adding insult to injury, Blackguard has posted to the first of these two threads, so we <STRONG><EM>know </EM></STRONG>that SOE is aware of the issues.</DIV>

<blockquote><hr>RoseWhite wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Bleusong wrote:<BR>carpentry has been ignored...completely...here are some threads to give folks better understanding about what is wrong with carpentry..<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a5&message.id=1481&view=by_date_a scending&page=1" target=_blank>consolidated carpentry issues by Didi</A><BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=470 41&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>more carpentry issues, and links to other carpentry posts on forum</A><BR><BR>thank you..i have no more energy left to talk about this more..<BR><BR>.../shrug..thank you for your time, everyone.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV>Adding insult to injury, Blackguard has posted to the first of these two threads, so we <STRONG><EM>know </EM></STRONG>that SOE is aware of the issues.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Well then, it looks like they still need to fix alchemy.

maybe they are...personally i think it got lost somewhere..

<DIV>There is also this thread about <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=housing&message.id=13236" target=_blank>What Furniture Is Bugged</A>. Blackguard not only responded to the thread, he told us to keep it up to date (because, apparently, the devs don't bother with such trivialities) and that such posts will "help us out." Help them out identifying the troublemakers who want what was promised, I'm guessing.</DIV>

<blockquote><hr>Odissius wrote:<DIV>Poisons from NPCs are better than that made of a player.</P><hr></blockquote>While I agree with your other points, the above quote is flat-out wrong.

<blockquote><hr>Meldarion wrote:<blockquote><hr>Odissius wrote:<DIV>Poisons from NPCs are better than that made of a player.</P><hr></blockquote>While I agree with your other points, the above quote is flat-out wrong.<hr></blockquote>Well from what I have seen they are, maybe they were too low a level.