<DIV>One of the great things of eq1 was the freedom of movement, choice, and do most anything you wanted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>im not trying to say eq2 should be compared to eq1. Im saying that soe should take some things from eq1 that worked and bring them here (i know they are diff games and ment to be diff games). I know you guys (soe) are trying to make something new and dynamic, but please if its not broke why fix it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, i feel like im constantly trapped in a jail cell when i play. I dont feel like i have a choice of what i want to do sometimes, its almost routine like. I think others would agree with me when i say, i HATE zoning into zones  via bell, doors, and various other crap. It just adds another effect of being trapped or forced to do something. Dont get me wrong, some zones you should have doors on, but more than most there shouldnt be. I just feel like im trapped alot of times. Everything is becoming routine like on moving everywhere, group choices, and what i have to kill. This may also have something to do with mobs looking the same from lvl 1-50.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well im off to work now (im going to be late). ill finish up when i get back</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Zones are a necessary evil. You might hate zoning, but tremendous lag and/or crashes would be far worse.

<DIV>Your not forced to do anything.... if the game makes you feel trapped, i think it's time to move on man.... lol</DIV>

<DIV>I really don't understand what it is you are complaining about. Is it that you have to choose to zone by clicking an object?</DIV> <DIV>I think it is great that you can not accidentaly zone just by walking to close to some invisible border.</DIV>

<DIV>Okay I played 5 toons in EQ1, and they all started like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>level 1-10 - Geater Faydark (I had all half elves)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>10-16 Crushbone/Kurns</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>16-25 Paludal Caverns</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>25-30 DSP/HHK</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>30-40 LDoNS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>40-46 LDoNS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>46 - 55 PoJ (and LDoNs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>55-62 PoV</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>62+ BoT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now here in EQ2 it goes like this</DIV> <DIV>1-6 IoR</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>6-18 Anty/Firemyst</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>18-22 Stormhold</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>22-27 TS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>27-30 Varsoon</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>30 +  Take your pick  Zek, EL Runnyeye</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats where I am now. But there are at least 3 more major zones that I need to get too.  Feerott, EF, LS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There we're too many garbage lower level zones in EQ1, places that we're completely Void by the time EQ2 came out. All it did was thin out the zone populations alot, and make getting groups together take for ever.<BR></DIV> <DIV>Who remembers this line "Don't worry the Cleric is coming, he's in zoneXXX and running as fast as he can, should be here in 15 minutes".  What happened next?  Group blew apart.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There was a lot to explore, but you really couldn't enjoy untill you we're too high in level to really enjoy it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My 2cp though, everyone's oppinion is different, I just see much of a difference, I like how the zones are laid out, with great zones inside of zones.  Like Runnyeye and Varsoon in EL and TS respectively.  Makes traveling easy and I can usually form a RE group in less then 10 minutes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Editted portion</DIV> <DIV>----------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Let me just add this as well, when EQ1 launched it was 1/20 the size it is now, and EQ1 wasn't broke it was just old and tired, I love the fact that EQ2 is trying to blaze a new trail, while every other MMORG is trying to ride on the coattails of EQ1. (WoW)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by GoNomar on <SPAN class=date_text>03-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:48 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by GoNomar on <span class=date_text>03-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:50 AM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jeridor wrote:<BR>Zones are a necessary evil. You might hate zoning, but tremendous lag and/or crashes would be far worse.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>See this is what I don't get, why are players always making excuses for SOE, it's truly  unreal how they've managed to completely fool us. Case in point, comment above. Honestly, do you really feel that having multiple instances of a Zone like Commonlands is all that needed ? Is there more to these zones that I havn't seen in 5 months and my whole way to lvl 50 ? </P> <P>Not to compare to any other games but it's just plain truth, the Mega City in MxO is I would say comparable in size to all of the outward zones in EQ2, keep in mind that every building in that city can be entered, all have appartments, npc's in them, etc etc... Now MxO is one giant zone, the only instances are team missioins in appartments and such, and quite honestly even in it's beta state and much better graphics then EQ2, it runs a hell of alot better... but thats just IMO. Now of course the game is in beta, so their are less players hitting the servers and so on but still, it's far more impressive if you ask more, and helps alot more towards immersivness of the MMO.</P> <P>So my question is, why are we holding SOE and EQ2 to such a low standard of approval when other games out there are so obviously holding themselves to a much higher ground ?</P>

<blockquote><hr>GoNomar wrote:<DIV>Okay I played 5 toons in EQ1, and they all started like this.</DIV><DIV>-list of zones noted for exceptional XP, though not the only zones in EQ1 (or even, ironically, the best zones for XP)-</DIV><DIV>Now here in EQ2 it goes like this</DIV><DIV>-list of zones noted for exceptional XP, though not the only zones in EQ2 for a Qeynos character (or even the only ones giving XP)-</DIV><hr></blockquote>If you are grinding, the one making the box is YOU. There is a wealth of content if you seek it. There are more areas to play then just a simple straight path to boredom. If you are a Qeynosian, nothing stops you from going over to the Commonlands to mix it up a bit. If you are a Freeporter, you can go attack things in Antonica. Same for Thundering Steppes, Nek Forest, Wailing Caves, Blackburrow, Stormhold, Fallen Gate, Vermin's Snye, Serpent Sewer, etc etc etc. Nothing -requires- you follow a set path. You can even cross-adventure in the "newbie" zones. You can get all quests but the once in your opposing city dirctly (and even a few of those are open to both sides). You can even get book quests to "direct" your killing sprees. Yes, if you travel a bit further from home, you will have a bit of travel time to get there.. wah. The world is a big place. If you are missing the game, don't blame SOE, look at how you are playing. YOU are the one to make the choices to go to those limited locations. The blame is all yours.My boyfriend and I have characters which started in Freeport and betrayed. We've done most of the Commonlands, Wailing Caves, and Fallen Gate quests -after- betraying. We also do stuff in Antonica and its ajoining zones. We have combat XP off so we -can- do more and see more and even so we're leveling up on quests a tad faster than we want at times.

<DIV>One of the major downsides of EQ1 is that instead of revamping old zones they made new ones. After the first 2 expansions, all new expansions should include both new zones and revamped old ones. First they need to get enough area in the game to allow for revamping to occur. Right now the game is overkill linear, some choices do need to be added for adventurers to choose between. This all comes from the two city choice and is made even more restricting by the evil, good theme of certain areas. Lets keep our hopes up and believe more starting and adventuring choices will be given in future expansions. First they need to get the mechanics right, They need one mechanic for grouping and a whole new less restrictive mechanic for soloing. The combat speed mechanic for grouping is fine, but it doesn't work for soloing. Some classes have a very hard time soloing because the solo mechanic is the same is the grouping mechanic. Some degree of kiting is in order for solo fighting. This mechanic needs to be priority one.</DIV>

<blockquote><hr>Shadena wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Jeridor wrote:<BR>Zones are a necessary evil. You might hate zoning, but tremendous lag and/or crashes would be far worse.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><P>See this is what I don't get, why are players always making excuses for SOE, it's truly unreal how they've managed to completely fool us. Case in point, comment above. Honestly, do you really feel that having multiple instances of a Zone like Commonlands is all that needed ? Is there more to these zones that I havn't seen in 5 months and my whole way to lvl 50 ? </P><P>Not to compare to any other games but it's just plain truth, the Mega City in MxO is I would say comparable in size to all of the outward zones in EQ2, keep in mind that every building in that city can be entered, all have appartments, npc's in them, etc etc... Now MxO is one giant zone, the only instances are team missioins in appartments and such, and quite honestly even in it's beta state and much better graphics then EQ2, it runs a hell of alot better... but thats just IMO. Now of course the game is in beta, so their are less players hitting the servers and so on but still, it's far more impressive if you ask more, and helps alot more towards immersivness of the MMO.</P><P>So my question is, why are we holding SOE and EQ2 to such a low standard of approval when other games out there are so obviously holding themselves to a much higher ground ?</P><hr></blockquote>Yes, I do believe it. Have you seen how bad some areas in town lag when it gets populated? I don't think antonica for example suffers so badly, but sections of it could. Plus it's just crowd control. Some features of an area will be so popular they will be overused. And these extra instances for major areas only open when X people are in that area, so it's not like you always have a dozen antonicas handy so you can be completely antisocial.I think the instanced areas are one of EQ2's strengths, not a weakness. I don't mind if you disagree, but there's lots of reasons for this and it's not even all performance based. Some of it is social. I have no interest in camping every spawn I need for a quest or competing with other guilds to do a raid, etc like in other such games.

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote:<BR> <DIV>One of the major downsides of EQ1 is that instead of revamping old zones they made new ones. After the first 2 expansions, all new expansions should include both new zones and revamped old ones. First they need to get enough area in the game to allow for revamping to occur. Right now the game is overkill linear, some choices do need to be added for adventurers to choose between. This all comes from the two city choice and is made even more restricting by the evil, good theme of certain areas. Lets keep our hopes up and believe more starting and adventuring choices will be given in future expansions. First they need to get the mechanics right, They need one mechanic for grouping and a whole new less restrictive mechanic for soloing. The combat speed mechanic for grouping is fine, but it doesn't work for soloing. Some classes have a very hard time soloing because the solo mechanic is the same is the grouping mechanic. Some degree of kiting is in order for solo fighting. This mechanic needs to be priority one.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I agree to some extent with EQ1 that revamping old zones would have been nice, but I doubt it is worth the effort to do it much.  As the average player level got much much higher there were too many zones that were almost completely unused.  The problem is when they start revamping zones a lot of work has to be done to prevent breaking tons of quests that rely on specific mobs in that zone.  Changing mobs and/or lvl of the zone could break tons of quests.  Probably easier just to make new zones most of the time.

<DIV>im not directly point at the zone layout and the living in a box feeling, im saying the entire game has way to many restictions where it almost decides for you on where to go, waht to do, and all decisions that you would make ur self. Theres so many restrictions in the game, its not a flowing game, its sharp and directs you straight towards things. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just to name a few restricted feelings things:</DIV> <DIV>zone timers</DIV> <DIV>instances</DIV> <DIV>maps</DIV> <DIV>eq2 being small in size (this is the smallest ive ever seen eq)</DIV> <DIV>group restrictions on killing mobs ( 2x, 3x, 4x,)</DIV> <DIV>no levitate</DIV> <DIV>few ways of transportation (run, bird, ticket)</DIV> <DIV>all mobs looking very similar or totally the same throughout the lvl range</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im not taking my view to a specific point, its the overall feel of the game that gives me that eerie, you have to do this and that type of thing. </DIV>

<font color=cyan>My comments in cyan.</font><blockquote><hr>stoutbrewdrinker wrote:<DIV>im not directly point at the zone layout and the living in a box feeling, im saying the entire game has way to many restictions where it almost decides for you on where to go, waht to do, and all decisions that you would make ur self. Theres so many restrictions in the game, its not a flowing game, its sharp and directs you straight towards things. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>just to name a few restricted feelings things:</DIV><DIV>zone timers</DIV><div><font color=cyan>For a lot of the zones the timers have been changed. But, the timers are there to prevent one of EQ1's major ills farming a spot for drops or simply to prevent others from accessing it.</font></div><DIV>instances</DIV><div><font color=cyan>LAG and server line issues. If there were no zones you would have more places with the lag issues of Qeynos Harbor, Vermin Snye, and most of Freeport (basically anyplace with dense buildings). You would likely have more issues like SWG has with server line oddities (though many of those are with houses and harvesting structures... but ask any SWG player about warping off the bike or mount, that's from the server lines you can't see. But.. Frankly, I think EQ2's zone divisions are grandly done. Gates where gates make sense. Bells instead of boats... well... umm.. okay, I can imagine the boat ride and not the wait on it. Grates, etc.</font></div><DIV>maps</DIV><div><font color=cyan>Behing handed a map you have to clear to make it readable makes you feel like you're in a box and restricted only to go in certain places? huh? They added the maps because of the constant whine-fest in EQ1 about no in-game maps. I rememeber when maps were added o EQ1. I think the EQ2 method (other than not being able to add notes or your own mapped areas) is pretty decently done.</font></div><DIV>eq2 being small in size (this is the smallest ive ever seen eq)</DIV><div><font color=cyan>This is essentially one continent from EQ1 which is broken apart. It's a larger version of that continent... or at least larger than -I- remember it. If you started in EQ2 after expansions (I started right after Luclin), then yes, it would seem smaller. If you were used to the insta-travel of the Knowledge books... then.. well.. I pity you.</font></div><DIV>group restrictions on killing mobs ( 2x, 3x, 4x,)</DIV><div><font color=cyan>OH.. umm.. yeah... a single level 50 could solo kill Vox without using 60+ gear, buffs and single heals. Right. The marking of mobs with x2, x3, x4 is to give information to those who are too...umm... to those who want the information on a silver platter what they need to do to attack thus and so. Yes, it limits you to a max but that's to prevent the zerg "tactics" that became so popular in EQ1. Let's not have a challenge, let's jsut through an ever revolving (be sure to have your bind point at the door) number of "toons" at whatever it is. Yeah, zerging is tactics *rolls eyes*</font></div><DIV>no levitate</DIV><DIV>few ways of transportation (run, bird, ticket)</DIV><DIV>all mobs looking very similar or totally the same throughout the lvl range</DIV><div><font color=cyan></font>This one I will grant you. They do, as they did in EQ1 and SWG and probably other games not even made by SOE, recycle and reuse the same creature model a bunch of times. Sometimes that can be irritating, I will agree. But... at the same time, I understand the concept. Are skeletons really going to look -that- much different in different places when they are human skeletons?</div><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Im not taking my view to a specific point, its the overall feel of the game that gives me that eerie, you have to do this and that type of thing. </DIV><hr></blockquote> <font color=cyan>Again.... there is only one person saying you MUST do this or do that and that's you. You don't need to do any quest aside from the citizenship, class, and sub-class quests. You don't need to go to thus and so zone. You don't have to do squat unless YOU chose to.</font>

haha, telling soe "if it aint broke dont fix it" thats funny, because they really dont like that rule, horses, illusion items,bruiser armors, entire classes.. they "Fix" them and other things that function all the time, and they wernt really broken.

<DIV>I don't think anyone is "making excuses" for SOE.... but you have to be realistic... I do NOT want to play in a game that has every frikkin character in the server in one huge area....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALso, to the person that listed out the zones they went through to level all of their characters.... try something NEW!  Don't just go to every zone that has easy groups in it.  How about making a character in Freeport?  Yes, if you want the easist fastest path you will be going the same way every time... duh!  SOE did provide some more (not a ton but more) options you are not even exploring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's OK to want more... but keep it realistic, your wanting things no company does, or does not do out of Beta... and Beta can no where match the load that a love server will feel.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will trade enhanced performance in trade for a 20 sec zone any day, and if you are taking longer to zone because of your connection... you think a massive zone will be better??? LAG!</DIV>

<DIV>"all mobs looking very similar or totally the same throughout the lvl range"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This REALLY made me laugh.... try playing FFXI... same mobs through EVERY level range.... number of different models SOE has so far is no problem for me.  I go into a different zone and it has differnt mob types... what do you want?  To go into runneye and not find lots of goblins?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you just need to try a few different zones than the ones you have been grinding.</DIV>

<DIV>I agree that the game is too box-like, but for my own reason...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Self-contained zones. every friggen zone is its own little world completely walled in. And I think the horrible sky could count as a topper so technically it IS a box. Sure, this is fine for some zones, but not all of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Invisible Walls. My pet peeve in 3d games. All these great mountains that I would love to hike up and get a great view, and some invisible wall keeps me from going up. pft. Same with the ocean walls. Should be able to swim from qeynos to say freeport... or at least be able to try and die horribly in the dangerous waters...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. This is really an extension of #1... Why must zones be so distant? take away the world map, and qeynos to antonica is no different than Thundering Steppes to Nektulos Forrest. EQOA had it going good, why did you regress for EQ2? For those who didn't play it, EQOA was all one big congruous landmass with SEEMLESS zones. What does that mean? it means that you could run from the Rathe Mountains to the Lavastorm Mountain without ever having a load bar. This is done with a system that dynamically loads content in front of you and unloads content behind you. The same technology was used in Dungeon Siege, and makes these games 100000x better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Also related to 1 and 3... Zone level restrictions. For raid instances, sure, bring on hte level requirements. But for main zones like Enchanted Lands? Helloooo linear-ville!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Miral on <span class=date_text>03-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:43 PM</span>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miral wrote:<BR> <DIV>I agree that the game is too box-like, but for my own reason...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Self-contained zones. every friggen zone is its own little world completely walled in. And I think the horrible sky could count as a topper so technically it IS a box. Sure, this is fine for some zones, but not all of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Invisible Walls. My pet peeve in 3d games. All these great mountains that I would love to hike up and get a great view, and some invisible wall keeps me from going up. pft. Same with the ocean walls. Should be able to swim from qeynos to say freeport... or at least be able to try and die horribly in the dangerous waters...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. This is really an extension of #1... Why must zones be so distant? take away the world map, and qeynos to antonica is no different than Thundering Steppes to Nektulos Forrest. EQOA had it going good, why did you regress for EQ2? For those who didn't play it, <FONT color=#ff0000>EQOA was all one big congruous landmass with SEEMLESS zones. What does that mean? it means that you could run from the Rathe Mountains to the Lavastorm Mountain without ever having a load bar. This is done with a system that dynamically loads content in front of you and unloads content behind you.</FONT> The same technology was used in Dungeon Siege, and makes these games 100000x better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Also related to 1 and 3... Zone level restrictions. For raid instances, sure, bring on hte level requirements. But for main zones like Enchanted Lands? Helloooo linear-ville!</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Miral on <SPAN class=date_text>03-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:43 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>EQOA zones were sweet. I miss that not being in EQ2. Still play EQOA every now and then cause I got a Necro there and think Necro here blows. <BR>

<DIV>Yeah necro here does blow... I only left EQOA because Tom Wells came in and started killing the game (notably the magician class)... unfortunately he's on the EQ2 team now =(</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miral wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah necro here does blow... I only left EQOA because Tom Wells came in and started killing the game (notably the magician class)... unfortunately he's on the EQ2 team now =(</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heard they brought someone from the SWG dev team over too that totally believes in utilizing the nerf bat as often as possible. Not sure if it's true. Friend of mine got tired of the changes done lately and canceled his account early this week. Said he logged in one  morning early this week and just had no desire to do anything. He's playing Project Entropia now. I just restarted playing EQOA again because I have the all access. If I can't find anything to keep me playing EQ2 probably going to just stay with EQOA. Sad when a game starts out really fun and they slowly start removing it over a few months time.<BR>