<DIV>Here is how I see it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Due to some time shortfalls or the developers felt that there was an imballance for dungeons on the freeport side, the Befallen zone was relocated to Antonica and renamed Stormhold (notice the files are still called befallen).  The zoneline for befallen was given a fancy door and fallen gate was relocated there instead of the Thexian camp in Nektulos.  (I did notice that the quest for access to caldron hallow tells you to light the torches from the entrance of neriak outward and just happens to start by the thexian camp in Nektulos)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am just wondering, will these dungeons ever be relocated when Befallen is reintroduced?  (you can't hide it forever *wink*)  Also will there be any plans to add a further zone for deeper neriak?  I would love to explore the ruins of second gate (like the blind eye) and third gate and remembering the way that foreign quarter was, you don't have to run all the way to the back of fallen gate to find the entrance to Second Gate.</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaargen wrote:<BR> <DIV>Here is how I see it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Due to some time shortfalls or the developers felt that there was an imballance for dungeons on the freeport side, the Befallen zone was relocated to Antonica and renamed Stormhold (notice the files are still called befallen).  The zoneline for befallen was given a fancy door and fallen gate was relocated there instead of the Thexian camp in Nektulos.  (I did notice that the quest for access to caldron hallow tells you to light the torches from the entrance of neriak outward and just happens to start by the thexian camp in Nektulos)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am just wondering, will these dungeons ever be relocated when Befallen is reintroduced?  (you can't hide it forever *wink*)  Also will there be any plans to add a further zone for deeper neriak?  I would love to explore the ruins of second gate (like the blind eye) and third gate and remembering the way that foreign quarter was, you don't have to run all the way to the back of fallen gate to find the entrance to Second Gate.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sure they can. They have solid lore to state that Befallen is just about gone for good. And the continents shifted. That is the entrance to Neriak on the outskirts of the Forest now.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyways from what we can tell, Neriak is sealed off underground. anyone who tries to enter or exit the city is killed by a magical barrier that they put up or something.</P>

<P>From a <STRONG><EM>lore</EM></STRONG> point of view, then Befallen is a dungeon just waiting to be rediscovered.  The history and lore involved in Befallen (which has now spilled over into Stormhold) surrounding the Bone Bladed Claymore, Lanys T'Vyl, and the fate of the Knights of Truth, all cries out for it's inclusion.</P> <P>Then, on the other side of the coin, is the <STRONG><EM>game</EM></STRONG> point of view of balance between the Freeport side, and the Qyenos side, etc.</P> <P>I would not hazzard a gues, but I *think* that since the artwork for a 'Befallen' in the game went instead to a 'Stormhold', that it would not be an easy project to;</P> <P>1.)  Re-draw up a new artwork scheme for Befallen,</P> <P>2.)  Make that new artwork look sufficiently different from Stormhold, yet sufficiently like what Befallen should be.</P> <P>For these reasons I suspect that the developers may let the 'Rendering' bury Befallen forever out of EQ2.  I hate to see it, but I think that may be something we will have to accept.</P>

<P>The Stormhold = Befallen discussion has been going on since Beta.  IIRC people early on found that the Stormhold files were actually named Befallen.  As I understand it, it was originally supposed to put into the Commonlands, probably near the Hidden Griffin Tower.  However, it was later moved over to Antonica because there wasn't a lvl 20-30 dungeon over there and the Commonlands already had Fallen Gate.  Thus the imbalance would have been in favor of FP.  Although personally, it would have made more sense to put Stormhold/Befallen in the CL, then put Fallen Gate in Nek Forest and make it equivalant to RoV, but that would still offset the balance in favor of FP because you'd have Nek Castle and FG in Nek Forest.</P> <P>During one of the early discussions here in the Lore forums, one of the devs stated that Befallen was completely destroyed during the Shattering.  </P> <P>As far as Neriak goes, it was hinted at and talked about in several places of the original game, the Bloodline Cronicles, and in EoF.  I doubt we'll see it anytime soon, but if SOE ever releases an expansion into the Underfoot, I'm sure that Neriak will be included in that.  BTW, the Rolikk (sp) live event and the whole history behind the Ratunga is an indication that an expansion into the down below is imminent in the future, at least to me anyway. =p</P><p>Message Edited by Gobbwin on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:11 AM</span>

<DIV>Filenames mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... Some files from the KoS expansion were called like `Kerafyrms Lair`, but have you ever seen that? I have, it's a part of Deathtoll. Even though Stormhold has a lot of links to Befallen, I'm pretty sure a developer once posted that Stormhold is not Befallen.</DIV>

<DIV>The problem is that Stormhold looks too much like Befallen.  And the coincidence that the Bone Bladed Claymore, which dropped in Befallen, just happened to show up in Stormhold? ...</DIV> <DIV>cause Stormhold was supposed to be Befallen in the first place.</DIV>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:<BR> <DIV>The problem is that Stormhold looks too much like Befallen.  And the coincidence that the Bone Bladed Claymore, which dropped in Befallen, just happened to show up in Stormhold? ...</DIV> <DIV>cause Stormhold was supposed to be Befallen in the first place.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>They've sufficiently covered the reason why the BBC is in Stormhold, and why Stormhold was designed to look like Befallen. The BBC made it's wielder go mad and he ordered the knights to design Stormhold to be like Befallen without him even knowing what he was doing.

Well lets <font size="4"><b>not</b></font> forget the ghost of that elf right at the entrance of Stormhold, Sir Valinye or something, who says Befallen in the voiceover but in the text it says Stormhold.<div></div>

He is probabbly confused where he is...

<P>all that Lore was put there to cover up one point : Stormhold was supposed to be Befallen.</P> <P>that's what I think anyway.</P>

<div></div>The whole point on which the dev base their explanation is wrong in the first place. They say that BF was moved to antonica to avoid too many dangeons in the CL area because of fallen gate, and fallen gate was moved there becasue of the Nek castle. The thing is that Neriak shouldn't have been moved and the Nek castle wasn't really needed in that case. They whould have, and should have, just added a new dangeon in antonica and we, lore lover and old eq players, whould have been much more happy. From the look of it, map messed around and other things, it seems like the devs never ever even bothered to look at the maps of the first game before start the process of doing the maps for eq2. The shattering, mass cataclisms, alright all good reasons for some changes but there's no way to explain how the entrance to a city ends up hundred of miles (theoreticaly speaking) away from his original location. I remember when I first started playing and went down to fallen gate for the first time, when I reached the first gate I was like "huh ? that's neriak, [Removed for Content] is the first gate doing in the CL??"Don't take me bad, I kind of like the nek castle but I whould have surely prefered to have Neriak in the nek where it was supposed to be than then nek castle. <div></div><p>Message Edited by LordDarthKhan on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:28 AM</span>

<DIV>It WAS suppose to be Befallen. That is true, but they found themselves that they'd be adding two undead teir 3 dungeons to the Commonlands and nothing to the Qeynos side.</DIV>

Again, Neriak shouldn't have been placed in the CL in the first place. It's not soo much work to actualy do a new map from scratches without messing the whole geography of the world.<div></div>

<DIV>Nek Castle has been in Everquest's lore since even when Everquest was in Beta. It has nothing to do with Neriak not being in Nektulos forest.</DIV>

Well, since it's the excuse for neriak been in the CL, it IS the reason why teh geography is messed up.<div></div>

<DIV>I've never once heard them state that Nek castle was the excuse for Neriak being in Commonlands. I dont know where you heard it.</DIV>

<DIV>Y'know, the fact that certain points of lore were added for reasons other than enriching the storyline doesn't mean that they aren't valid.  The connection between Stormhold and Befallen has already been covered lorewise.  Neriak's original entrance was completely destroyed, and moreover, the boundary lines between Commonlands and Nektulos could easily have changed dramatically during the Shattering.  Were there some oversights in executing their designs for these zones that reveal the devs' primary intent?  Sure, but I don't particularly care what their reasons are, as long as the lore itself makes sense.</DIV>

<DIV>Befallen and Stormhold are bound in tale. The BBC is the author of this tragedy. What tales can be told about the legendary claymore's origin and has this weapon completed its work?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Thexians are hard at work in the Fallen Gate. Do they hope to uncover the records of their past or do they hope to uncover something greater?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The tales behind these dungeons are not forgotten and are far from abandoned.</DIV>

As I see it, when the devs switched the dungeons around, they made up the lore to cover that change.  Otherwise the lore would have been different.  The lore can be based upon design decisions more than anything else. 

I loved befallen as a zone and it still makes me really mad to see how they messed up a number of the dungeons. When you look at the praise being heaped on EoF for the nostalgia value, it shows how deeply misguided a lot of the design decisions were that were made during EQ2's development. I wasn't in beta but it was so blatantly obvious that Stormhold was Befallen I didn't need to know about it. Apart from the ghost who still thinks he is in Befallen, there is the entrance room with four doors (one of them mysteriously locked), the well to the bottom etc. etc. Fwiw I don't really blame the devs for any of this as it was forced on them by some idiot higher up to ensure release at a certain time. I'd love it if they switched it back but I guess it's just not a project worth doing. It would take a lot of resources and you would have very little to show for it at the end. So were stuck with this mess. You can put sticking plasters all over it and call it "lore" but at the end of the day, it is still a big mess. <div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NoNameChosen wrote:<BR> <DIV>Filenames mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... Some files from the KoS expansion were called like `Kerafyrms Lair`, but have you ever seen that? I have, it's a part of Deathtoll. Even though Stormhold has a lot of links to Befallen, I'm pretty sure a developer once posted that Stormhold is not Befallen.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's not just filenames.  Some of the original voiceovers in Stormhold would state Befallen, even though the written text stated Stormhold.  When the voice actors were brought in for the work required on that dungeon...it was still being referred to as Befallen.  In fact, this was the case for at least a year after release.  </P> <P>EDIT:  Noticed Emerant brought this up first.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>12-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 AM</span>

<P>It comes down to that the developers have the decision and power to make the lore the inevitable.</P> <P>For example they could make the lore say that how the Isle of innothule moved north of Faydwer. Anything can happen and its pretty easy to change the lore around.</P>

<DIV>They can be placed wherever they want to be as long as us Conjs dont have to summon them there!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the reason we are seeing the Fallen gate in CL is for a few reasons.</DIV> <DIV>The gate into it was formed, because htey started excavating in CL and struck the part of the foreign quarters underneath CL... Since the Fallen Gate is near the Nek gate, I would assume the CL desert expanded over Nek a little. If the real enterance to Neriak is ever found, which I am assuming it will be found... will be located in Nek itself.</DIV>

another area they forgot to remove references to befallen is in the quest helper. For the BBC, it states;"I have taken the ancient sword from its resting place in Befallen. I will earn its power through my own blood, sweat and tears if I must, but it will be MINE!"It should probably be changed to reflect that you are actually getting it from the bowels of stormhold.<div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gukkor2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> Neriak's original entrance was completely destroyed, and moreover, the boundary lines between Commonlands and Nektulos could easily have changed dramatically during the Shattering.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Comments like this make me wish that geography was manditory every year of high school and you had to have a 85% average to move on.</P> <P>Each major land mass in EQ2 is a tectonic plate...</P> <P>Tectonic plates.  I suggest you look it up.</P>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gukkor2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> Neriak's original entrance was completely destroyed, and moreover, the boundary lines between Commonlands and Nektulos could easily have changed dramatically during the Shattering.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Comments like this make me wish that geography was manditory every year of high school and you had to have a 85% average to move on.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Each major land mass in EQ2 is a tectonic plate...</FONT></P> <P>Tectonic plates.  I suggest you look it up.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And you know this how?  Not all planets have tectonic plate activity.  For example, Mars in our solar system does not. 

<div><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Gukkor2 wrote: <div> Neriak's original entrance was completely destroyed, and moreover, the boundary lines between Commonlands and Nektulos could easily have changed dramatically during the Shattering.  <hr> </div></blockquote> <p>Comments like this make me wish that geography was manditory every year of high school and you had to have a 85% average to move on.</p> <p>Each major land mass in EQ2 is a tectonic plate...</p> <p>Tectonic plates.  I suggest you look it up.</p><hr></blockquote>No, each major landmass on Earth is a tectonic plate.Each major landmass on Norrath is either pixelated or painted on paper, and will behave according to the will of the devs rather than geography.</div>

<blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:Comments like this make me wish that geography was manditory every year of high school and you had to have a 85% average to move on.Each major land mass in EQ2 is a tectonic plate...Tectonic plates.  I suggest you look it up.<hr></blockquote>It's a fantasy world. In the light of the "a wizard did it" explanation, in this case it's quite explicitly stated: A(The) god(s) did it. Who cares about rules? They're gods!

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gukkor2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> Neriak's original entrance was completely destroyed, and moreover, the boundary lines between Commonlands and Nektulos could easily have changed dramatically during the Shattering.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Comments like this make me wish that geography was manditory every year of high school and you had to have a 85% average to move on.</P> <P>Each major land mass in EQ2 is a tectonic plate...</P> <P>Tectonic plates.  I suggest you look it up.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Earth Geography does not apply in Norrath, otherwise there would be a different spread to the weather. Why does the desert moving into Nek make you want to add more geogrpahy to our stressfull lives and move the passing rate up 15 points? You would have people who would never graduate. It is completely possible for a desert to grow, shrink, wither away, be randomly formed... You also have to remember, Earth has not had it's moon blow up and fall to the ground and hit us, and has not had 100s of deities fighting over it and breaking antonica up and messing with the seas. If Ro could mess up my ancient ancient ancient homeland, by turning it into a desert, the other deities can totally mess up Nek forest. <BR></P>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DreamerCloud9 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gukkor2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> Neriak's original entrance was completely destroyed, and moreover, the boundary lines between Commonlands and Nektulos could easily have changed dramatically during the Shattering.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Comments like this make me wish that geography was manditory every year of high school and you had to have a 85% average to move on.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Each major land mass in EQ2 is a tectonic plate...</FONT></P> <P>Tectonic plates.  I suggest you look it up.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And you know this how?  Not all planets have tectonic plate activity.  For example, Mars in our solar system does not. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ahh, but it did my Daniel-san.</P> <P><A href="http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast29apr99_1.htm" target=_blank>http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast29apr99_1.htm</A><BR></P>