<DIV>Pre patch:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://users.pandora.be/damme/sc/Warden.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After patch:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://users.pandora.be/damme/sc/Wardenafter.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our dogs also scale with out level now, nice upgrade but still low direct heals</DIV>

<div></div>After all Lockeyes "talk" about our DIRECT heals, what do we get?  Almost Zero.  What a joke. If Lockeye had to get special permissions to make those changes, what will a real fix cost him? A kidney? Edit - to insert DIRECT. <div></div><p>Message Edited by pedigree on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:12 AM</span>

<DIV>Dude you got no idea lol</DIV> <DIV>Put the tree on ( 200hp/2 seconds ) + wild growth ( 400hp/2 seconds ) and wild chlorostorm ( 350hp/2 seconds ) and sylvan streams ( 80hp/ second ) and verdant bless ( 100hp/ second ) gives us a total of 655 HP / second !!! excluded the amount of heal on our direct ones. We can keep all these regens up at the same time, this is a very very nice upgrade and calling us [Removed for Content]... you got no idea what you talking about then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks alot SOE, great job!</DIV>

Cast mashing - getting as many spells out as you can whilst trying to keep a tank alive. Why not just give us a single spell with a GOOD DH on it rather than having to bash out 4 or 5 spells to do the same thing? Direct Heal , not regens <div></div>

<span><blockquote><hr>pedigree wrote:After all Lockeyes "talk" about our heals, what do we get?  Almost Zero.  What a joke. If Lockeye had to get special permissions to make those changes, what will a real fix cost him? A kidney? <div></div><hr></blockquote> Uh... this is definitely *not* almost zero. I'm looking forward to playing with this today, but it *definitely* will go a good way toward solving our healing problems. You're not looking hard enough if you don't see that. It doesn't fix our other issues, but I'll take this as a first step.</span><div></div>

Mistype then, I meant to type "Direct heals".  Having to spam spells out just to hit a DH figure, why??  At 53, my biggest DH isnt even 600 and yet a defiler can bounce out well over 1000 levels below me.  A Warden is still a sub-standard healer. <div></div>

<P>If you were looking for regens to be better, you will be happy.</P> <P>If you were looking for direct heals to deliver more up front, you will be disappointed.</P>

<P>Hmmmm... not to bad.  Just looking at regens and the single target regens seem to be boosted about 13% and group regens by about 46%(!) assuming  I did the math right.  Definiately not "zero" . </P> <P>As for the heals it looks like only about 5% was taken away from the regen part and put in the direct portion.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Omegarhino on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

<span><blockquote><hr>Timber13 wrote:<div>Dude you got no idea lol</div> <div>Put the tree on ( 200hp/2 seconds ) + wild growth ( 400hp/2 seconds ) and wild chlorostorm ( 350hp/2 seconds ) and.....</div><hr></blockquote>10 seconds of casting....  Why cant we simply get a single DH that makes a difference...  VR at 53 DH's for the same as a defilter at 40</span><div></div>

<span><blockquote><hr>Spagma wrote: <p>If you were looking for direct heals to deliver more up front, you will be disappointed.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>And I am and thats my right.</span><div></div>

<DIV>Roll another class, I wanted to be warden cause there regens, that's how SOE promised we'll be, now we are like that. If you don't like it, go play a templar or so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my eyes this patch is awesome, anything more we get is nice, but this is just perfect for me about heals.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Timber13 on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:19 AM</span>

<DIV>Pedigree,</DIV> <DIV>  I understand what you are looking for.  Previous to the combat revamp, we had huge direct heals which made up for a lacking regen. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After revamp we had slow direct heals that had no chance to make up for a lacking regen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now we have the same slow direct heals but a better/faster regen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all if the regen can do a better job keeping pace, you will have less need for huge direct heals, which is the path we are on.</DIV>

<div></div>Well, I won't pass judgement until I get in and play.... but I have to say I am in the disappointed camp when I just look at the numbers.   If the regen really does make up the difference for our DH then fine.  But our arch heal is still 44% - 56% which still bites. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Morie on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

<DIV>Right now our regen heals for 50% more than a templar reactive as they heal the same amount each time it goes off, but we get 6 ticks, they get 4 reactions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sure this will get looked at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have not had a chance to play yet, and can only go by the numbers.  With these changes it brings up our sustained HP/s in line with Templars, which should help leave our direct heals available for burst, adds or additional HP/s.  Our group regen got a 50% per tick boost.  On single target it is still not as good as a group reactive, but on 2 targets it works out to be better.  I can live with that, and can even occasionally take the efficiency hit when using it on a single target, as efficiency is not normally a problem.</DIV>

Personally I think the heals are doing good now. All that really needs to be changed is our buffs.  We need to be desirable buffers in our groups and as the defensive priests of the druid archtype I would like something better.  I hope that HG and Sandstorm can be changed.

<P>I wouldnt dismiss those changes right away.  I think they look pretty good.  The adjustments on the regen's are a significant improvement and will go along way in helping our burst damage.  Yes the DH were not increased a lot, but the adjustment in combo with the regen adjustments looks pretty good.  Obviously needs some testing, but I like what I see so far.  I almost think that if they increased the DH more than that, they cleric's out there could complain.  This leaves clerics with the biggest bang on DH by the looks of it, but we should be able to handle burst damage better now, and our overall healing ability looks to be improved.  </P> <P> </P> <P>Lets get these live so we can actually test them.</P> <P>Arathania -56th Level Warden</P> <P> </P>

What about our group direct heal?  I don't see it listed.  Was it nerfed? <div></div>

<DIV>Forgot to post our group heal... gah sorry, I will do it tommorow or so, it has slightly been increased.</DIV> <DIV>Our instant heals are still the same like before.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Timber13 on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:35 AM</span>

<DIV>Overall the changes make me happy... With this change I should be able to keep a group alive as well as any other priest class.  What still saddens me is our inexcusable lack of useful buffs.  Not to mention the lack of any definite reason for an up and coming druid to choose the warden line as opposed to the fury line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know I keep banging my head against comparing fury and warden.  I feel this is justified since they are our sister/brother class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 50 Fury : Porcupine : +1600 to all mitigation for 36s, + damage proc (stuns)</DIV> <DIV>Lvl 50 Warden : Heirophantic Genesis : (not sure of exact values here) 250-320/2s for 36s (stuns)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is it just me or does this seem a tad unbalanced?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lvl 52 Fury : Back into the Fray : 1.4k heal if the target < 50% health, 700 otherwise.</DIV> <DIV>lvl 52 Warden : Tunares Watch : Group Emergency Death (lasts 30s), 100% chance to have the tank die twice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmmm?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could go on... pointing out that the only difference in our buff lines is that we can add 90 wis, while the fury adds 90 int...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our regens are now identical, we have no leg up here.</DIV> <DIV>Our Directs are nearly identical, we have no leg up here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wardens should have SOME benefit over a fury, just as a fury should have some benefit over a warden.  Yet both classes should be unique enough that they don't just feel like watered down versions of the same class.</DIV>

<P>Just logged in my warden to check my healing spells ...</P> <P>It looks like not all tiers got bumped like the image above shows for t6 heals. I'm pretty sure my Master II Sylvan Waters (level 43) did heal for a whooping max 396 with a HoT of 66 before this patch, and guess what? no changes ... still the same numbers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also, I checked my Master I Nature's Embrace (level 32) and its direct part heals for 424 ... that is MORE then a level 43 Master II ???</P> <DIV>VERY disappointed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

<span><blockquote><hr>Tsais wrote:<p>Just logged in my warden to check my healing spells ...</p> <p>It looks like not all tiers got bumped like the image above shows for t6 heals. I'm pretty sure my Master II Sylvan Waters (level 43) did heal for a whooping max 396 with a HoT of 66 before this patch, and guess what? no changes ... still the same numbers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also, I checked my Master I Nature's Embrace (level 32) and its direct part heals for 424 ... that is MORE then a level 43 Master II ???</p> <div>VERY disappointed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>The change affected the regrowth and arch healing lines, not the healing line (sylvan waters). Similarly, comparing NE from the Arch Heal line with Sylvan Waters from the healing line is comparing apples and oranges, so the fact that NE M1 heals for 424 instantly is... irrelevant, especially seeing as how AH spells got a boost to their initial heal but the healing line did not. I think you're simply not looking at the right spells to see the changes...</span><div></div>

hmm yes you totally right I did jump to conclusions to fast, and comparing different lines. However, the changes to the spells that DID get bumped seems so small to me that I certainly not have the feeling that it will make much difference ... AND lvl 32 templars are still outhealing me by factor 2 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

<span><blockquote><hr>Tsais wrote:hmm yes you totally right I did jump to conclusions to fast, and comparing different lines. However, the changes to the spells that DID get bumped seems so small to me that I certainly not have the feeling that it will make much difference ... AND lvl 32 templars are still outhealing me by factor 2 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I'm still not sure that you're looking at things closely enough. The change to our regen and group regen lines is *massive*. The change to our Arch Heal line, while not massive, still improves both the burst healing *and* the efficiency of the spell. This is *definitely* going to make a difference if you're using all the spells available to you.</span><div></div>

Hmm so you suggest i keep spamming GROUP heals along with all my other heals to try keep my MT alive ... ? doesnt seem right to me, we need a big direct heal to cope with damage spikes. period.

Our group heal is actually much closer to being worthwhile on even a single target now- inefficient, yes, but it's no longer to *completely* be ignored. I was mostly referring to the fact that a) the Arch Heal *did* get improved, and b) the single-target regen is now a truly impressive spell. Each tick of the single target regen is now about 85% of the initial direct heal component of our healing line! Consider, now, the following. One second into the fight, approximately 450pts is healed from Sylvan Streams adept 3. Three seconds into the fight, we're up to 450 + 70 + 70 + 725  = 1315 from two ticks of SS and a cast of Verdant Bliss. Please note that we now are very competitive as far as the burst healing we can provide in the first 3 seconds of a fight. Five and a half seconds into the fight we're up to 1315 + 90 + 90 + 70 + 70 + 375  = 2010 from two more ticks of SS and two ticks of VB as well as the first tick of Wild Growth. Seven and a half seconds into the fight we're up to 2010 + 90 + 90 + 70 + 70 + 375 = 2705 from two more ticks of SS, two more ticks of VB and another tick of WG. That's 360 HP/sec that we can sustain indefinitely using nothing but DHs and our single target regen. Oh, and we used 146 + 254 + 153 = 553 power (in order of casting) for 4.9 HP/power, which is some of the highest efficiency around. Concerns may remain regarding raiding as the regen does not stack, but from a group perspective I'm pleased. <div></div>

<DIV>I have been up until now very negative towards the whole way SOE has addressed CC for wardens to date.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just logged out from my evenign 4 hours session and i must say i am pleased with the way are working now in terms of heals. Direct heals are still pretty bad but i do not have to relay on them as much now that regen works better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We still lack on the buffs sdie nw but the bigget problem we had,m which was not being able to be solo healers, was solved in a way i could settle for. If you are unhappy on paper (cus the upgrade to our arch-heal line is again worthless) just try and play, forget all together you have direct heals and try to rely more on your regen. You will be surprised.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seems today was a step in the rigth direction. maybe also our heal line needs a small bump like the one we had in the arch heal line and i thnk with heals we are getting there where we should stand.</DIV>

<P>Haven't grouped yet since patch. But it seems like just quicker spamming, and even less (less then little) nuking oppurtunities. Only tried the even con mobs in the haunted house.</P> <P>Also the roots seem to be breaking even more now then after last adjustment.</P>

So, do we get to see a new sig, Ukraft? <div></div>

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morie wrote:<BR>So, do we get to see a new sig, Ukraft?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>In time probably yes. As i have said it's a good start - this doesn't mean the trust that was shattered in the last two month will get back 100% immediately.

<DIV> <DIV>Posting some numbers based on the images provided by Timber13. Posting this mainly to prevent people making wrong claims about our changes like last time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First row is pre-patch, second row is post-patch. People care a lot about burst healing so I provided how much of a boost we got to our healing done in ~4 seconds</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Verdant Bliss: 673.5 + 77.5 per sec for 12 seconds. Healing done in 3.5 seconds: 828.5. Total amount healed:1603.5</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Verdant Bliss: 725.5 + 93.5 per sec for 10 seconds. Healing done in 3.5 seconds: 912.5. Total amount healed:1660.5</DIV> <DIV>Split: 42.0% initial 58.0% regen</DIV> <DIV>Split: 43.7% initial 56.3% regen</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Initial heal increase: 52 hp. 7.7% increase</DIV> <DIV>Amount healed in 3.5 seconds increase: 84 hp. 10% increase</DIV> <DIV>Total amount healed increase: 57hp. 3.5% increase</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wild Growth: 276.5 instant and per tick for 6 ticks: 1935.5</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Wild Growth: 375.5 isntant and per tick for 5 ticks: 2253.0</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Amount healed in 4 seconds increase: 1126.5/829.5 = 35.8% increase. 297 hp increase</DIV> <DIV>Total amount healed increase: 16.4%. 317.5 hp increase</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=+0></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Wild Chlorostorm: 190.0 instantly and per tick for 6 ticks: 1330</DIV></DIV> <DIV>Wild Chlorostorm: 333.5 instantly and per tick for 5 ticks: 2001</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Amount healed in 4 seconds for one target increase: 430.5 hp. 75.4%</DIV> <DIV>Total amount healed increase: 671 hp. 50.5%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Syvan Streams: same(waaaaah)</DIV> <DIV>Bufrfs: same(who cares, nothing changed so why post 'em?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Notes: I was expecting it to look like we got a bigger buff to our group heal, our group heal is *tremendous* now. It is worth it to put it on even if it only helps the main tank, it is a lot better than letting the tank die, I know I'll be putting this badboy back onto my heal bar. And I thought the split was 50 inital and 50 in the regen, oh well, that's what it should be, well I want it to be be like 65/35 or even 70/30 but hey I dunno. I am liking our specialty-single-target regen now, it does much better in 4 seconds. What is very good is that all of our increases will come within 4 seconds of our healing spell landing. We still need some work, but it is getting closer, I would say our small and large direct heals both need more upfront healed or a shorter regen duration. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If there's any mistakes or something you would like to see, please reply and I'll add it in. Hope this helps.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>