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-   -   Bloodthirsty Choker hitting too hard (https://archive.eq2wire.com//showthread.php?t=417689)

Mr. Dawki 05-13-2008 12:17 AM

<p>Ok the choker says it takes 5% of your overall HP for every CA/Spell used</p><p>1) when you equip it it takes way more than 5%</p><p>2) well, pictures speak louder than words</p><p><img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h263/gummby8/EQ2_000190.jpg" alt="" width="1024" height="741" border="0" /></p><p>Ok simple math 6973 X .05 = 348.65   so 411 is off by a bit there</p><p>Had a friend test it with his coercer, and he too got the same results. It seems as though the dmg is not longer affected by resists, which is fine, yet the math is still wrong.</p>

Xalmat 05-13-2008 02:47 AM

The damage can crit.

EasternKing 05-13-2008 05:13 AM

iirc when it was first added to the game, you could still swap all gear slots in and out.so the dev made a penalty hit on the item to stop people swapping it in and out quickly, otherwise it does what it says when you actually cast any spells / ca's.

acctlc 05-13-2008 05:23 AM

Really unsure why you are quibbling over 60 hps of damage.    Fine ok if you are saying it is bugged..and maybe someone should take a few mins to fix the fact that it is critting, but really this item is working well within useable parameters.

Killerbee3000 05-13-2008 06:43 AM

<cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite><blockquote>Really unsure why you are quibbling over 60 hps of damage.    Fine ok if you are saying it is bugged..and maybe someone should take a few mins to fix the fact that it is critting, but really this item is working well within useable parameters.</blockquote><p>Or, fix the message about the dmg from it to say it critted, because in the screeny it says: "Your Vampiric Requiem hits YOURSELF for 411 magic dmg" and does not mention a crit hit from it.</p><p>411 is within the possible range of a crit if you have 348 as a base.</p>

Mr. Dawki 05-13-2008 11:49 AM

<p>I gues i should have posted more of the combat log. I have 60+ spell crits and never once did it show a crit message, also the dmg never changed from 411 after 10-15 battles. Which leads me to believe that it is not affected by resists, does not crit, and the math is still wrong.</p><p>True enough 60 extra is not a huge thing, yet it still needs to be fixed</p>

Sylvana 05-13-2008 01:02 PM

Count your lucky stars you werent using it when shard of fear was first released.It had more damage per spell-cast.On AoE encounters it procced on every mob hit.It killed you twice!! When i had 100% on my armor, and died with the choker on, i revived with a message saying "Player1 killed Player1" , and 80% armor.I think its fine as it is, the thing adds a LOT of damage to hard hitting spell classes, especially wizards.

slippery 05-13-2008 01:21 PM

The damage it does to you increases based on the amount of base damage you have and will crit based on your spell crit. So when you get to the really high end and have 10k hp as mage with 100% crits and generally around 40% base damage it isn't uncommon for it to hit you for almost 1k damage.

Mr. Dawki 05-13-2008 01:43 PM

OK let me try saying this again It is NOT critting It is NOT being affected by resists (With a coercer magic resist buff, no change in dmg) It is ALWAYS 411 dmg The math is WRONG I just tried respecing out of my 60+ spell crits just to test it, it still hit for 411 dmg EVERY SINGLE TIME. Honestly this is not rocket science here, I know what you are all trying to say. After nearly an hour of using CA's EVERY SINGLE TIME 411 dmg, as long as I did not change my max HP.

Noaani 05-13-2008 02:33 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK let me try saying this againIt is NOT crittingIt is NOT being affected by resists (With a coercer magic resist buff, no change in dmg)It is ALWAYS 411 dmgThe math is WRONGI just tried respecing out of my 60+ spell crits just to test it, it still hit for 411 dmg EVERY SINGLE TIME. Honestly this is not rocket science here, I know what you are all trying to say. After nearly an hour of using CA's EVERY SINGLE TIME 411 dmg, as long as I did not change my max HP.</blockquote><p>Were you in a group when you were looking at this?</p><p>One with, say, group HP buffs?</p>

Korpo 05-13-2008 03:05 PM

The important question is, why do you only have 7k HP at level 80?

Mr. Dawki 05-13-2008 03:10 PM

<p>/sigh</p><p>no, I was not in a group.</p><p>And some new interesting things occured now, talking to a conj friend, as he sits with no gear on (no modifiers of any sort) the think nukes for different numbers, sometimes under 5% sometimes over 5%, and it seems to actualy crit on him, with the proper wording, however it was rare, and with me 60% crit rate never critted once.</p><p>Still the part where he is sitting wiith no gear on and it procing for variable amounts of dmg is just plain wierd. And it hits with focus dmg now, which per test notes is not supposed to be resistable or mitigatable. So whats up with the random numbers? How is 5% a random number when you are naked?</p>

-Aonein- 05-13-2008 03:11 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK let me try saying this againIt is NOT crittingIt is NOT being affected by resists (With a coercer magic resist buff, no change in dmg)It is ALWAYS 411 dmgThe math is WRONGI just tried respecing out of my 60+ spell crits just to test it, it still hit for 411 dmg EVERY SINGLE TIME. Honestly this is not rocket science here, I know what you are all trying to say. After nearly an hour of using CA's EVERY SINGLE TIME 411 dmg, as long as I did not change my max HP.</blockquote> Hmmm strange, there is alot of times I will see this only hit me for the 100's, so I am sure something is stopping it from sapping the entire 5%. 9.8k hp raid buffed I have, so, dunno.

Fyreflyte 05-13-2008 08:20 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK let me try saying this again It is NOT critting It is NOT being affected by resists (With a coercer magic resist buff, no change in dmg) It is ALWAYS 411 dmg The math is WRONG I just tried respecing out of my 60+ spell crits just to test it, it still hit for 411 dmg EVERY SINGLE TIME. Honestly this is not rocket science here, I know what you are all trying to say. After nearly an hour of using CA's EVERY SINGLE TIME 411 dmg, as long as I did not change my max HP.</blockquote>While it is a possibility, it is unlikely that the math is wrong. The way we create spells, they typically use standard templates as opposed to custom scripts. This item is no different, using a standard spell template that simply deals 5% damage to the caster, no special code or equations that could be miscalculated. As is mentioned above, this damage will be modified by any base damage bonuses you have. So for instance, if you have an epic weapon adding a base 10% damage mod to spells: 6973 hps * 0.05 = 348 damage dealt to you. Wearing epic + choker adds an additional 20% damage to this. 348*1.2 = 418. Not exactly 411, but you have to take into account that our system rounds in various places, so that value is pretty close.When I cast this on a naked character I get the following numbers:4438 hps * 0.05 = 222hps. Damage dealt by choker cast: 245222*1.10 (add 10% damage from wearing choker) = 244So in this case it is working properly. If you are not wearing any other base damage mods, then I'd need to take a closer look at your equipment to see if there was something else that could possibly be modifying it. Due to the way spells and bonuses work, there is no easy way for me to prevent base damage % mods from affecting the damage done by this item.

Xalmat 05-13-2008 08:39 PM

Actually I've been doing further testing on the choker to make sure it is working properly, and it seems the damage will vary up and down without any kind of outside influence.Here's the results. And it seems to reflect what I've been seeing for a long time with the choker.<img src="http://images.xalmat.com/choker-stat.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><img src="http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/choker-stat.jpg" alt="" border="0" />3568 HP x 5% = 178 HPBut instead I see these two:<img src="http://images.xalmat.com/choker-high.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><img src="http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/choker-high.jpg" alt="" border="0" /><img src="http://www.mattcrews.com/images/eq2/choker-low.jpg" alt="" border="0" />Again, I have no spell damage mods on when I ran these tests.What's up with that?I've also seen Vampiric Requiem specifically say it crits, and the damage is pretty high when it crits too.

Fyreflyte 05-13-2008 09:41 PM

Odd, it should not be critting at all (and I can't seem to manage to make it crit for me even with a 100% crit rate). Are you certain it's Vampiric Requiem that is critting?As to the damage discrepancy, I took a deeper look at it and there's just something about the way the game rounds the numbers numbers that's causing it to be slightly off. Again, not sure there's anything I can do to fix it. The choker is pretty well balanced in its current form.

Xalmat 05-13-2008 09:51 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>Odd, it should not be critting at all (and I can't seem to manage to make it crit for me even with a 100% crit rate). Are you certain it's Vampiric Requiem that is critting?</blockquote>100% certain it was Vampiric Requiem that crit. But it's a pretty rare chance to crit, only seen it a couple times.

RogueSpideyChick 05-13-2008 10:08 PM

it's definitely the requiem because u see the BIG red numbers pop up whenever u equip it & ur nowhere near mobs, like in a crafting instance. ive seen it crit when im in combat also & just casting my normal nukes

Sferoflex 05-13-2008 11:43 PM

Hold on a F-ing second...Xalmat's post says the BT Choker is doing <b>FOCUS </b>damage.So now the damage can't be mitigated by a Troub with Arcane up?!?!

Xalmat 05-14-2008 01:51 AM

I don't think it ever could be mitigated before. My testing showed prior to today's update that increasing my resistances had no effect on the damage both before today's update, and after today's update.Plus this bit in the patch messages:<b>Damage that can not be resisted or mitigated will now be referred to as "focus" damage instead of crush/pierce/slash/poison/heat/cold/etc in combat chat messages.</b>So it was probably always Focus damage before, we just didn't know it.

Yarginis 05-14-2008 02:55 AM

It does crit, but it isn't affected by crits, so it's just got the 1% default crit chance. (someone once rumored it was affect by heal crits but haven't tested)

Ka 05-14-2008 08:19 AM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>Odd, it should not be critting at all (and I can't seem to manage to make it crit for me even with a 100% crit rate). Are you certain it's Vampiric Requiem that is critting?</blockquote>It's affected by heal crits.

Mr. Dawki 05-14-2008 11:24 AM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>Odd, it should not be critting at all (and I can't seem to manage to make it crit for me even with a 100% crit rate). Are you certain it's Vampiric Requiem that is critting?As to the damage discrepancy, I took a deeper look at it and there's just something about the way the game rounds the numbers numbers that's causing it to be slightly off. Again, not sure there's anything I can do to fix it. The choker is pretty well balanced in its current form.</blockquote>I know can confirm it crits, while playing around to see if my healer could keep up while i equip and de-equip it, there was a definate crit. Although it was not called requem, the dmg when you equip the choker is called something else. It seems as tho the crit is extreamly rare, I am much more concerned with how Xalmat managed to have 2 different results while standing naked.

Pins 05-14-2008 11:52 AM

Fyreflyte, Vampiric Requiem crits based on Heal Crits, which is probably why you are failing to get it to crit even with "100%" crits <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><div>However, I haven't done any math on the #s since the LU, but it's definitely critting still based on Heal Crits.</div>

Fyreflyte 05-14-2008 06:31 PM

Well... I am stumped. I have the effect flagged to be no-crit, but apparently that isn't working. I'll talk to some coders and figure out why that is.

-Aonein- 05-15-2008 03:22 PM

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well... I am stumped. I have the effect flagged to be no-crit, but apparently that isn't working. I'll talk to some coders and figure out why that is.</blockquote> I was watching my combat logs for this tonight and sure enough there was times I was getting hit with crits for 600+ dmg.

-Aonein- 05-16-2008 11:40 AM

<p> I downloaded the plug in for ACT that registers Vampiric Requiem and did a Maidens Chamber run:</p><ul><li>333'510 focus damage to myself</li><li>295.40 Ext DPS </li><li>Min Hit = 23</li><li>Max Hit = 837 </li><li>500 swings </li><li>120 crits</li><li>100% hit ratio</li></ul><p> I double checked this with the actual log file itself and its 100% correct, only took me like 1 and a half hours to doube check.</p>

Mr. Dawki 05-16-2008 01:14 PM

The min hit could have been what was left after a ward, the crit still is bad.

-Aonein- 05-16-2008 01:47 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>The min hit could have been what was left after a ward, the crit still is bad.</blockquote><p> I have never understood why we simply cannot use a resistance check against this OR make it so reactives can at least lessen the effect done to fast casters, as it stands, the only thing that absorbs that effect is wards. I also wonder why the item states it does magic damage to the target but then it comes up in logs as focus damage.......</p><p> Please at least make it so it can trigger reactives too please...</p>

Mr. Dawki 05-16-2008 02:06 PM

Fire if the mechanics round the numbers up,  why dont you just tweek it so after it rounds up it is 5% or just make it so the choker does not affect its own nuke


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