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Darlordofthesith8969 10-04-2010 07:01 PM

<p>Well I never thought I would post this but omg just left a Garank bg were there where 4-12 of us beating on this one warden and his health never moved or his power, how do the other classes get a setup like that ?.</p><p>Soe has nerfed lets see scouts, casters, bards and fighters for bg's, Inq Temps Def and mystics only have to have 1 or 2  people beating on them to die but waredns stand tall in the thick of the bg's in leather armour impervious to harm when theres a x2 raid beating on them imo thats bs</p>

StaticLex 10-04-2010 07:05 PM

<p>Nice exaggeration.  But hey, carry on with the QQ, it's funny.</p>

Blambil 10-04-2010 08:47 PM

<p>It's a warrior, brawler, crusader, druid, cleric, shaman, sorcerer, predator, rogue thing.... if you're not one of those archtypes, you don't get "god mode", so sorry..</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>In all seriousness, I've experienced what you describe, playing against, or playing AS, any of the types I listed there, when well geared..</strong></span></p>

MMKA 10-04-2010 08:48 PM

<p>A fully geared warden played by someone who knows what they are doing shouldn't die to any fewer than 12 undergeared players.</p><p>The real question is: How many of you did he kill?</p>

Blambil 10-04-2010 08:50 PM

<p><cite>MMKA wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The real question is: How many of you did he kill?</p></blockquote><p><snicker></p>

Telnights 10-04-2010 09:02 PM

<p>While agree with the TS I dont think scouts have been nerfed very much Rangers are if anything the easyest class the play in PVP right now.</p><p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nice exaggeration.  But hey, carry on with the QQ, it's funny.</p></blockquote><p>Thats funny coming from a Warden. Might as well say my class isnt over powered <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />.</p>

Davngr1 10-05-2010 12:11 AM

<p>i don't have issues with wardens on any of my dps classes and can give them a hek of a hard time on my tanks.    </p><p> you just need better gear and start timing your damage better.    ie. save a stifle/stun and a big hit for when the healer goes red.   it's all about timing with a druid, if you don't strike hard when red they're back up to green in seconds.</p>

Notsovilepriest 10-05-2010 12:29 AM

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i don't have issues with wardens on any of my dps classes and can give them a hek of a hard time on my tanks.    </p><p> you just need better gear and start timing your damage better.    ie. save a stifle/stun and a big hit for when the healer goes red.   it's all about timing with a druid, if you don't strike hard when red they're back up to green in seconds.</p></blockquote><p>Only crappy wardens hit red from 1-3 people.</p>

mrsma 10-05-2010 10:32 AM

<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>there where 4-12 of us beating on this one warden and his health never moved or his power</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Hmm, me thinks possibly a slight exaggeration. His health and power must have moved down at least 10% <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></strong></span></p><p>I can't see what gear you have as you are "private" but an Assassin fully geared <strong>"can"</strong> mess a warden up - and that is one on one. </p>

Brynhild 10-06-2010 02:30 AM

<p>It's hard enough to outheal one good assassin for example on my warden, or a good brig for another example, and that's if im not stunned/stifled/interrupted/mezed etc.  You throw one enchanter in there with one of the dps scouts and the warden is dead.</p><p>Undergeared underskilled players a warden can stand there all day and outheal 6 of you while she eats dinner and watches tv, but you are in no chance of dying from her.</p>

Rahatmattata 10-06-2010 12:04 PM

<p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>there where 4-12 of us beating on this one warden and his health never moved or his power</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Hmm, me thinks possibly a slight exaggeration. His health and power must have moved down at least 10% <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></strong></span></p><p>I can't see what gear you have as you are "private" but an Assassin fully geared <strong>"can"</strong> mess a warden up - and that is one on one. </p></blockquote><p>Not in T4. I realize you guys are in T10, and could probably care less about T4 but... just sayin.</p>

Wigg 10-06-2010 12:46 PM

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mrsmall wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>there where 4-12 of us beating on this one warden and his health never moved or his power</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>Hmm, me thinks possibly a slight exaggeration. His health and power must have moved down at least 10% <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></strong></span></p><p>I can't see what gear you have as you are "private" but an Assassin fully geared <strong>"can"</strong> mess a warden up - and that is one on one. </p></blockquote><p>Not in T4. I realize you guys are in T10, and could probably care less about T4 but... just sayin.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, but in T4 a warden also loses mana unlike in T10 where the myth enervated keeps them over 90% power with no problems.  </p>

Rahatmattata 10-06-2010 12:49 PM

<p>Yea, but not from 1 assassin attacking them.</p>

StaticLex 10-06-2010 04:25 PM

<p>Assassins can kill me occasionally.  Same with rangers now that they're so OP even a [Removed for Content] can get kills with them.</p>

TuinalOfTheNexus 10-06-2010 10:29 PM

<p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's hard enough to outheal one good assassin for example on my warden, or a good brig for another example, and that's if im not stunned/stifled/interrupted/mezed etc.  You throw one enchanter in there with one of the dps scouts and the warden is dead.</p><p>Undergeared underskilled players a warden can stand there all day and outheal 6 of you while she eats dinner and watches tv, but you are in no chance of dying from her.</p></blockquote><p>A geared warden is immune to stun/stifle from procs, immune to root (and I think reduces snare effects) from AA, and also procs interrupt immunity.</p><p>So the only option really is chain knockdowns or fear, but you kinda have to rule out fear since it breaks on damage. Also of course don't forget Wardens also get spells like Heirophantic Genesis that is a 30s regen at about 2khp/sec, so even if you've completely stopped them from casting they're still regenning at a considerable rate from either genesis or other HoTs that are running.</p><p>I think as many have said heals are just too large across the board, they've gone way out of whack with dps with toughness and all the damage mitigation gear not being balanced against any gear that noticably increases dps, and mutilation doesn't work anywhere near as well as it would need to to get things back in line.</p><p>Nerfing cures as they're doing isn't a great solution either, since it widens the gear gap between those who have near 100% stun/stifle immunity proc gear and those that don't.</p>

Muraazi 10-07-2010 01:47 AM

<p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Assassins can kill me occasionally.  Same with rangers now that they're so OP even a [Removed for Content] can get kills with them.</p></blockquote><p>So an OP class can only kill you on occasion? Yet you are defending your class, lol go figure.</p>

StaticLex 10-07-2010 05:35 AM

<p><cite>Muraazi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Assassins can kill me occasionally.  Same with rangers now that they're so OP even a [Removed for Content] can get kills with them.</p></blockquote><p>So an OP class can only kill you on occasion? Yet you are defending your class, lol go figure.</p></blockquote><p>What can I say, I think I play the class well.  /shrug</p>

Ralpmet 10-07-2010 05:37 AM

<p>CC, then dispel, then burn.</p><p>If you don't have dispel you won't remove the HoT's and the CC is pointless; unless it's repeated knockbacks that last ~10+ seconds.</p><p>That's the only way I've ever killed wardens t8+.</p>

Chiyoiche 10-07-2010 07:24 AM

<p><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A geared warden is immune to stun/stifle from procs, immune to root (and I think reduces snare effects) from AA, and also procs interrupt immunity.</p><p>So the only option really is chain knockdowns or fear, but you kinda have to rule out fear since it breaks on damage. Also of course don't forget Wardens also get spells like Heirophantic Genesis that is a 30s regen at about 2khp/sec, so even if you've completely stopped them from casting they're still regenning at a considerable rate from either genesis or other HoTs that are running.</p><p>I think as many have said heals are just too large across the board, they've gone way out of whack with dps with toughness and all the damage mitigation gear not being balanced against any gear that noticably increases dps, and mutilation doesn't work anywhere near as well as it would need to to get things back in line.</p><p>Nerfing cures as they're doing isn't a great solution either, since it widens the gear gap between those who have near 100% stun/stifle immunity proc gear and those that don't.</p></blockquote><p>your giving away our secrets! ssshhh! a stunn will land...sometimes...lol...but like mentioned, if you dont knock us down (yes i say us, because i play one too), stop us from casting, your probly sol...even if we dont cast, we have spores. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but...a good scout who knows what their doing against a warden...-shakes fist- they make me so angry! annoying buggars...</p><p>oh, and yes, the warden, can, and -will- kill you. specialy if they have infusion. healing=dmg=death for you. so yea, keep wailing away at that warden who knows what their doing, with their right buffs up, while their healing. their probly eating or making a pbnj and giggling at you,(or the undergeared,underplayed scout) nipping at their heals like a excited puppy.</p><p>honestly though, its not just wardens, its well played healers, period. a well played, healer, who knows their class and how to react, is not going to go down easy just because a few of you gang up on them. and the fact that the OP mentioned such a wide range of ppl beating on said warden, whats the reall ratio? when someone says 5-10, its really 1-3? lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Darman81 10-07-2010 11:55 AM

<p>Well I have a fully pvp geared warden with max AA and all that crap. And yes we are very hard to kill. But honestly when Im running a healing spec i cant kill anybody. Just have to have a well organized group hookshot, drag, fear the healer away from the grp. I know on Nagafen in warfields an excellent tactic against all healers is to have several rangers on the outside of the main battles hookshot healers out of the crowd and pull them over to a few awaiting assassins or rogues where they pummel them. This takes a little organized grp play and it is truly amazing to watch. This wont help much in Battlegrounds unless you go in with premade groups and everyone knows their place.  </p>

LivelyHound 10-07-2010 12:55 PM

Honestly dispel then mez and walk away. Doesnt matter if they dont die, they are out the game for awhile and their grp dies. That said a good chanter vs a good warden is a funfight.

Verrie77 10-07-2010 01:13 PM

<p>Why not remove healers completely, then ppl will finally miss them.I find some ppl strange...you want heals, even across the whole field. but at the same time you dont want healers to heal to well so that you cant kill them when you go up againts them.</p>

Forebian 10-07-2010 02:55 PM

<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I have a fully pvp geared warden with max AA and all that crap. And yes we are very hard to kill. But honestly when Im running a healing spec i cant kill anybody. Just have to have a well organized group hookshot, drag, fear the healer away from the grp. I know on Nagafen in warfields an excellent tactic against all healers is to have several rangers on the outside of the main battles hookshot healers out of the crowd and pull them over to a few awaiting assassins or rogues where they pummel them. This takes a little organized grp play and it is truly amazing to watch. This wont help much in Battlegrounds unless you go in with premade groups and everyone knows their place.  </p></blockquote><p>It's not just about whether you can kill while running a 'healing spec' - it's about your ability to not be killed and - as importantly - keep your groupmates from dying. If you don't die your group doesn't die...ergo your group is invulnerable.</p><p>I am not max'd out on AAs but I've got nearly all Nagafen PvP gear (except 4 items of jewelry), crits over 100%, Freehand Sorcery, bonuses to crits, etc. and I can burn a bar of mana on a warden and not even have them bat an eyelash. Usually in a BG I'll target the healers and attempt to at least keep them off balance by stifle, stun (storming tempest), and Ice Comet. But for the most part a well-equipped and AA'd warden is invulnerable to me... and rarely do my efforts to even slow down their healing come to any avail. </p>

Rageincarnate 10-07-2010 03:46 PM

<p>elemental ward.. wink wink.  learn what your killing.  Dont you have some arcane damage?</p>

StaticLex 10-07-2010 04:48 PM

<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>elemental ward.. wink wink.  learn what your killing.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p><p>Wizards are my favorite DPS class to face actually considering how many tricks I have against them.</p>

Oakum 10-07-2010 08:28 PM

<p><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's hard enough to outheal one good assassin for example on my warden, or a good brig for another example, and that's if im not stunned/stifled/interrupted/mezed etc.  You throw one enchanter in there with one of the dps scouts and the warden is dead.</p><p>Undergeared underskilled players a warden can stand there all day and outheal 6 of you while she eats dinner and watches tv, but you are in no chance of dying from her.</p></blockquote><p>A geared warden is immune to stun/stifle from procs, immune to root (and I think reduces snare effects) from AA, and also procs interrupt immunity.</p><p><strong>Hmm, I dont know what you are talking about stun/stifles. I can be stunned or stifled, I can also break it every 15 seconds IF i can get tranquility off unless you are talking about signets ect which can only be used once a bg, lol.  There is a proc that can spare us IF we can get heals off and it HAPPENS to proc. We do have root immunity and snare reduction from group which CAN be dispelled by any class which dispells buffs. </strong></p><p>So the only option really is chain knockdowns or fear, but you kinda have to rule out fear since it breaks on damage. Also of course don't forget Wardens also get spells like Heirophantic Genesis that is a 30s regen at about 2khp/sec, so even if you've completely stopped them from casting they're still regenning at a considerable rate from either genesis or other HoTs that are running.</p><p><strong>Lol, a scout autoattacks for 2k a second.</strong></p><p>I think as many have said heals are just too large across the board, they've gone way out of whack with dps with toughness and all the damage mitigation gear not being balanced against any gear that noticably increases dps, and mutilation doesn't work anywhere near as well as it would need to to get things back in line</p><p><strong>Here is what your shortsightedness is not realizing. Ask yourself a question. Which class is always targeted first in a BG? Healers right. Now which healer subclass has the lowest armor? Druids. So if toughness or heals and various other things are reduced and nerfed which subclass will always be the first to die? Druids. Which class is already gimped for raids compared to the other healer classes? Druids and wardens the worst. So how will making druids and wardens specificaly the first to die to any scout/tank/mage and plate/chain healers even make BG's fair for druids? </strong></p><p>Nerfing cures as they're doing isn't a great solution either, since it widens the gear gap between those who have near 100% stun/stifle immunity proc gear and those that don't.</p><p><strong>People get what they ask for and they ask for healers to be nerfed. They want the to call BG's SFG's. As in scout fighter grounds. lol. </strong></p></blockquote>

Notsovilepriest 10-07-2010 08:38 PM

<p><cite>Oakum wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brynhild wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's hard enough to outheal one good assassin for example on my warden, or a good brig for another example, and that's if im not stunned/stifled/interrupted/mezed etc.  You throw one enchanter in there with one of the dps scouts and the warden is dead.</p><p>Undergeared underskilled players a warden can stand there all day and outheal 6 of you while she eats dinner and watches tv, but you are in no chance of dying from her.</p></blockquote><p>A geared warden is immune to stun/stifle from procs, immune to root (and I think reduces snare effects) from AA, and also procs interrupt immunity.</p><p><strong>Hmm, I dont know what you are talking about stun/stifles. I can be stunned or stifled, I can also break it every 15 seconds IF i can get tranquility off unless you are talking about signets ect which can only be used once a bg, lol.  There is a proc that can spare us IF we can get heals off and it HAPPENS to proc. We do have root immunity and snare reduction from group which CAN be dispelled by any class which dispells buffs. </strong></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Stun immune I don't know, but your stifle proc is up a lot, Tranq should always be on yourself unless you have a good tank</span>.</p><p>So the only option really is chain knockdowns or fear, but you kinda have to rule out fear since it breaks on damage. Also of course don't forget Wardens also get spells like Heirophantic Genesis that is a 30s regen at about 2khp/sec, so even if you've completely stopped them from casting they're still regenning at a considerable rate from either genesis or other HoTs that are running.</p><p><strong>Lol, a scout autoattacks for 2k a second.</strong></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">If you are getting hit that hard, get better gear</span></p><p>I think as many have said heals are just too large across the board, they've gone way out of whack with dps with toughness and all the damage mitigation gear not being balanced against any gear that noticably increases dps, and mutilation doesn't work anywhere near as well as it would need to to get things back in line</p><p><strong>Here is what your shortsightedness is not realizing. Ask yourself a question. Which class is always targeted first in a BG? Healers right. Now which healer subclass has the lowest armor? Druids. So if toughness or heals and various other things are reduced and nerfed which subclass will always be the first to die? Druids. Which class is already gimped for raids compared to the other healer classes? Druids and wardens the worst. So how will making druids and wardens specificaly the first to die to any scout/tank/mage and plate/chain healers even make BG's fair for druids? </strong></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Wardens have equal mit to chain through AA. Druids are far from gimped this expansion, stop living in the past. They are able to solo heal on raids for just about every encounter. </span></p><p>Nerfing cures as they're doing isn't a great solution either, since it widens the gear gap between those who have near 100% stun/stifle immunity proc gear and those that don't.</p><p><strong>People get what they ask for and they ask for healers to be nerfed. They want the to call BG's SFG's. As in scout fighter grounds. lol. </strong></p></blockquote></blockquote>

Corydonn 10-07-2010 09:07 PM

<p>You can easily get 100% stifle immune from the ring that procs it from ERH, and stun immune gear comes from raids later on, These procs will almost always be up because on group heals it'll get an individual chance to proc for each group member making it reliable for PVE but somewhat overpowering for PVP. Just like how immunity proc items are pretty overpowering for fighters and scouts that have 100% AE autoattack for they will always by up from the 5x chance to proc from an AE auto.</p>

StaticLex 10-07-2010 11:37 PM

<p>The stun and stifle immunity is another gross exaggeration.  I am constantly stunned and/or stifled in a BG.  If I get stifled I usually try to run around until it wears off.  Stuns that don't wear off within a few seconds typically get broken with an ability or signet.</p>

Sinaya 10-08-2010 01:04 AM

<p>Edit: Deleted</p>


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