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-   -   Focused Minion (and other summoner changes) (https://archive.eq2wire.com//showthread.php?t=503990)

Iacon 07-28-2011 04:40 PM

<p>Most of the changes are fantastic, but I think most summoners would rather keep the Spell Double Attack for our pets than have an AA that increases another AA that no one really wanted. Good work on the changes otherwise, and I hope we get our pet SDA back. Thanks.</p>

Xillean 07-28-2011 05:22 PM

<p>Please pleae pelase Xelgad reverse this change on Focused Minion. The changes you made other then this are ubber I love them all, you guys have really made the summoner tree a vaild choice in many aeras instead of everyone spec this way, but why take away our spell da? please give it back, we dont need even more of a hate transfer the new wis line is more then enough by itself without changing that.</p><p>With the huge curves past 100 cast its not liek we are going to be getting ungodly amounts of sda, please let us know if youll at least consider this.</p><p>Another option would be to change the mages giving 5 pot to the grp in Teamwork to 5 SDA. That would make nice benefit to a mage grp while giving us some of our sda back.</p>

Trensharo 07-28-2011 05:38 PM

<p>How about they just put the SDA back in Focused Minion.  I'm all for buffing others but there's a limit.  I'm not losing 12.8% SDA just to boost a Wizard up to ~26% SDA given what they already have.  They simply need to give the SDA back.  Making it a gorup buff may work well for Conjies that get TC, but my pet doesn't get DoT ticks from UT.  I want the SDA back.</p><p>They added so much threat management AAs that it's not even logical that they turned this from uber unique to such a boring redundant "Enhance this" AA.</p><p>Also, I don't think I'd even take the AA that the New Focused Minion enhances because the other AA procs a detault, which is virtually all the mage pets needed to keep their threat in check and make it more manageable (unless it's such a low proc chance that no one would take that either).</p><p>I need to log into the test server to see what this stuff looks like.</p><p>No summoners on test have posted screenshots and thing slike that to show us what the actual increases form the new revamped AAs are.</p><p>We really have no clue if it's properly compensated (unless you're on test and can see what a lot of us don't see), so complaining ATM (for me, at least) doesn't seem warranted.</p><p>Have to evaluate all changes and how they affect performance as a whole, not just single out stuff.</p><p>Also, does the mage pet have spell auto attack, or will it still suicide to riposte on bosses I have to hump if my call servant is down for another 2 seconds?  At least that will give the new stats a bit more weight.</p>

Xillean 07-28-2011 05:44 PM

<p>Im on test, and yeah I want our full sda back my other suggestion was more of a compromise if the devs refused to budge on said 12.8 sda</p><p>I perosnally see no reason we should have lost it and im hoping its just a oversight in thier desire to give us a true dehate line, they went a bit overboard by taking the sda. It is a MASSIVE NERF to our damage imo. New stuff is kool but doesnt make up for the loss of the sda. But best way to check it for yourself is to get on test, lady luck is up on test copy if you dont want to wait to be copied over, amke a new necro and buff em up.</p>

Xalmat 07-28-2011 05:47 PM

<p>I'll look at these changes later tonight when I get the chance, but based on what I'm reading I'd rather have the old Summoner tree back as-is.</p>

acctlc 07-28-2011 06:52 PM

Have to agree, losing spell DA is definitely an unwelcome nerf to the summoner class. Will post more feedback after test finally gets done installing :/

Cisgo 07-28-2011 06:57 PM

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll look at these changes later tonight when I get the chance, but based on what I'm reading I'd rather have the old Summoner tree back as-is.</p></blockquote><p>  Aside from the loss of SDA (which is a hit), there is alot of nice changes in the new AA structure. Much more utility from the Agil. Line, means to increase mage pet 10% health for Soulburns, new AoE, Reanimate, Wis. dehate line for the conjurors complaining of aggro, increase in raid buff stats. </p><p>  Although there were a few good things changed, there is alot more to choose from now and there many different spec options which is good. Not to overlook the SDA hit, it will hurt, however there are some very nice changes otherwise.</p>

Trensharo 07-28-2011 07:22 PM

<p>On the ohter forum in the Necro Subforum there's a screenshot of the new AAs from the Summoner Tree.</p><p>Personally I agree with Xalmat.  They should have just left the tree as is.</p><p>The Class Trees were basically unchanged and given how things stand now there will not be much change in which AAs you grab there.  Maybe you'll skip one or two AAs that you were forced to get before due to the webbing, but that's about it.</p><p>Also, revamping SF/TSO instance gear without doing something about the PQ gear outlier is a waste of time at best.</p>

Iacon 07-28-2011 10:40 PM

<p>I copied my conj to test to check out the changes first hand...</p><p>Xelgad, why did you leave in the reduced resist chance on the bottom line but take out the SDA? The resist % thing is pretty worthless (we have Unabated and high hit rates already), and you must have had a suspicion atleast that summoners like SDA for their pet.</p><p>Was it too powerful or do you honestly think we are better off now than we were before?</p>

acctlc 07-28-2011 10:49 PM

<p>Feedback regarding summoner changes on test:    * Empower Servant is now in the Cabalist line and is now Cabalistic Conversion.  It reduces the group’s power cost by 1% per rank.Horrible change, put it back the way it was please.  My pets power is not easily managed by myself and this aa allowed me to never worry about the pet running out of power.  I can't toss a shard my pets way, I can't easily ask a chanter, hey..could you feed my pet?   My worry is without this aa in heavy powerdrain fights the pet will always be running on empty and the only choice will be to constantly recast the darn thing to restore its power pool.  Managing the groups power is a chanters job anyway, we don't need to add it to a summoners arsenal in the form of aa. Its fine where its at in the tree but just revert it back to what it was.    *Focused Minion is now Symbiotic Bond.  It increases the amount of Symbiosis by 1% per rank.Worse than the previous AA, by far.  Symbiosis is a nice idea, gives options to those wanting more or less pet hate.  Changing this AA from SDA for pet to enhancing that AA further is a horrible downgrade to this AA in its previous form however. Revert it back and rethink its position in the tree.  As is now I"m stuck sinking 16 points into the sentinals fate attributes and the only one I really want to spend 8 points on is the Aptitude of the theurgist.    *Unflinching Servant can now be used on any pet.This could have been the solution to conjuror aoe prevent for mage pets in combat, which as opposed to necromancers, we are definitely lacking.  We now have 2 aoe prevent AA options, neither of which the mage pet can be attacking.  So really less than useful from a conjuror+magepet prospective.  Still as useful as the previous AA that folks would use with melee pets. General line structure:Removing the webbing was great for the Conjuror tree but is still very restrictive in the Summoner tree.  You've come up with some nice AA's and currently they are buried beneath ones that based on playstyle, just aren't useful.  With the 100 point restriction on the tree its a bit rough atm.  Reanimate as a conjuror with no viable aa for pet aoe prevent, is very tempting but the choices above it could easily be sacrificed for better aa's elsewhere in the tree.  If for some reason it was decided that SDA is too overpowered for summoners (I don't agree with this), animate might make a good replacement on that line as atm I find the sentinal's fate points lackluster short of Aptitude of the Theurgist.  The bump to the raidwide buff isn't a horrible choice but 8 AA points for 2.4 increase to its stats..I'd rather have better pet surviveability considering the puny pet HP pools.BUGS:A reanimated pets hitpoint pool seems to have gone down drastically from an original summoned pet.  For example, an originally summoned pet  has for me 21,506k hp (spec'd both HP increasing aa's btw).  I can reanimate him once and have the reanimated pet's HP match the original pets.  Then if I hit reanimate again more than a minute later, the pet I have is at 12,744k HP.  Obviously the amazing draw to this aa is pet death can be negated without recasting but the cutting of pet HP almost in half is a huge drawback that in its current form if bugged makes it no different than dimensional storage as a pet with 12k hp won't be lasting long at all.</p>

Xalmat 07-28-2011 11:44 PM

<p>So I'm going to do a thorough before-and-after, with opinions:</p><p>STR tree:</p><p>Before: Animated Dagger, summon a swarm petAfter: Piercing-based NukeVerdict: Heck yeah in principle. However the damage is VERY, VERY anemic.</p><p>Before: Parrying, 1% uncontested Parry per rankAfter: <span>Theurgistic Prowess,</span><span> increases the summoner’s subjugation, ordination, focus, disruption and ministration.Verdict: Meh. I'd rather the uncontested Parry personally. At least for a Conjuror, most of these stats are low use, even with the changes to stats. This also hurts Summoners pretty heavily in a PvP setting due to the loss of avoidance.</span></p><p>Before: Wild Channeling, 1.2% Crit Chance per rankAfter: Unchanged</p><p>Before: Implode, sacrifice the pet for an AoE nuke (relatively useless)After: <span>Theurgist’s Detonation, inflicts magic damage around the summoner.Verdict: Heck yeah</span></p><p>Conclusion: I want Parrying back, but otherwise an excellent change to the tree. This is now the personal DPS tree.</p><p>AGI tree:</p><p>Before: Shadowstep (this is now moved to the INT tree)After: Transference (this was moved from the WIS tree)Verdict: I really don't understand this change. Looks like it was done to change the purpose of the AGI tree.</p><p>Before: Cabalist's Cover (intercept chance)After: Same as the old Minion's Warding (moved from INT tree)Verdict: I don't understand the change. Looks like it was done to change the purpose of the AGI tree.</p><p>Before: Minion's Zeal, scout pet grants group MAAfter: Cabalistic Conservation, reduce group mana costVerdict: Um...OK? Worthless.</p><p>Before: Reanimate, resurrect the scout pet when it diesAfter: Teamwork, grants the pet a group buff depending on the pet typeVerdict: This is god awful expensive for such a small bonus all around.</p><p>Conclusion: This is now the personal defense and group utility tree. A mostly useless AA tree (still)</p><p>STA tree:</p><p>Before: ShockwaveAfter: Same, except all pets can now use itVerdict: Good change</p><p>Before: Perceptor's Command (moved/merged into WIS tree)After: Perceptor's Parry, grant the pet parry chance per rankVerdict: Interesting change</p><p>Before: Perceptor's Bodyguard, increase fighter pet HPAfter: Same, affects all pets but HP is now reduced to 1% per rank.Verdict: Interesting change.</p><p>Before: Unflinching ServantAfter: Same, now affects all petsVerdict: Good change, if useless</p><p>Conclusion: Interesting. This is now the pet defensive utility tree.</p><p>WIS tree:</p><p>Before: Transference (now moved to AGI tree)After: Magic Leash (a merging of the old INT tree Magic Leash and Perceptor's Command, and making it AE)Verdict: I'm still confused about the rearranging, but a good change to the spell.</p><p>Before: Minion's Barrier (increase pet's defensive stats)After: Minion's Attention (proc hate position adjustments for pet)Verdict: Interesting is the word of the day, though this is a pretty hard nerf for summoners, unless the new Perceptor's Parry is better</p><p>Before: Minion's Uproar (increase pet's offensive stats, now moved to INT tree)After: Symbiosis, Transfer some hate to tank pet, and transfer some scout/mage pet hate to SummonerVerdict: VERY interesting, although this could hurt</p><p>Before: Animist's Bond (reduce damage by 2/3 and inflict in mana damage instead)After: Animist's Evasion (self 24 hate position reduction)Verdict: VERY interesting, although I'm not really sure why summoners need <em>another</em> hate position adjustment spell. Though in conjunction with the endline to this tree this makes sense.</p><p>Conclusion: Very interesting. WIS line is now the hate adjustment line.</p><p>INT tree:</p><p>Before: Magic Leash (now moved to WIS line)After: Shadowstep (now applies to mage and tank pet as well)Verdict: very interesting. Although for mage pet it's mostly useless imo if it interrupts spell cast.</p><p>Before: Minion's Warding (now moved to AGi tree)After: Minion''s UproarVerdict: Still a mostly useless AA for the mage pet.</p><p>Before: Arcane MinionAfter: Same, except now affects all petsVerdict: Good change</p><p>Before: Empower Servant (reduce mage pet mana cost significantly)After: Reanimate (moved from AGI tree, affects all pets now)Verdict: HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE. With Dimensional Storage alone summoners should have no problem keeping a pet up; at most this will save one spell cast. Not worth the AA investment. Please change it back.</p><p>Conclusion: This is now the pet DPS line. Reanimate is still garbage.</p><p>Sentinel's Fate changes:</p><p>Aptitude of the Theurgist - no change</p><p>Before: Cabilist's Aura, grant scout pet FlurryAfter: Improves the pet raidwide buffVerdict: Very interesting change, but a VERY poor AA. 0.25% raidwide potency per AA, for a grand total of 2% potency for 8 AA? No thanks.</p><p>Perceptor's Defense: No Change</p><p>Before: Animist's Aptitude (now moved to INT line)After: Symbiotic Bond, improve hate transfer of SymbiosisVerdict: HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE idea getting rid of Focused Minion and giving us this piece of crap.</p><p>Before: Focused Minion, 1.25% pet spell double attack/rankAfter: Magician's Aptitude (same as old Animist's Aptitude)Verdict: HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE.</p><p>Overall verdict: Getting rid of Focused Minion is a massive nerf to Summoners, there's no question. There's no way that Cabilist's Aura can even come remotely come close to matching the loss of Focused Minion in a group or raid setting where the group has Velious gear or better.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>Aside</em></span> from that, this is an interesting set of changes to the tree.</p>

Talathion 07-28-2011 11:47 PM

<p>atleast your tree did get changed, but SDA after the stat changes might be way OP.</p><p>You guys are going to be gaining so much damage its going to be dumb.</p>

Xalmat 07-28-2011 11:47 PM

<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>atleast your tree did get changed, but SDA after the stat changes might be way OP.</p><p>You guys are going to be gaining so much damage its going to be dumb.</p></blockquote><p>How so? We would need about 1000% ability cast speed to match the lost spell DA.</p>

Davngr1 07-29-2011 12:56 AM

<p>need the SDA back the is no way that the other changes made up for that lost damage.  you in fact made it more interesting but also made it worse <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>  now as far as the casting speed to SDA conversion thing.  i have a question, does the casting speed granted to individual spells in the AA trees modify that one spell to SDA?  or is it exclusive to "casting speed" and also does it work with "hostile spell casting speed"?</p>

acctlc 07-29-2011 12:58 AM

<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>atleast your tree did get changed, but SDA after the stat changes might be way OP.</p><p>You guys are going to be gaining so much damage its going to be dumb.</p></blockquote><p>What Xal said:</p><p>Per Xelgad overcap conversion for SDA goes like this:</p><p><span ><p>Ability Casting Speed to Doublecast:</p> <ul><li>100: 0%</li><li>200: 0.75%</li><li>300: 1.5%</li><li>400: 2.25%</li><li>500: 3%</li></ul>Considering he didn't continue past 500 I'm guessing we won't be seeing totals that high for a loooong time.  And they took away 10+ from our pet..sure  feels like a massive neft to me.</span></p>

Xalmat 07-29-2011 12:59 AM

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>now as far as the casting speed to SDA conversion thing.  i have a question, does the casting speed granted to individual spells in the AA trees modify that one spell to SDA?  or is it exclusive to "casting speed" and also does it work with "hostile spell casting speed"?</p></blockquote><p>I doubt it.</p>

Davngr1 07-29-2011 01:03 AM

<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BUGS:A reanimated pets hitpoint pool seems to have gone down drastically from an original summoned pet.  For example, an originally summoned pet  has for me 21,506k hp (spec'd both HP increasing aa's btw).  I can reanimate him once and have the reanimated pet's HP match the original pets.  Then if I hit reanimate again more than a minute later, the pet I have is at 12,744k HP.  Obviously the amazing draw to this aa is pet death can be negated without recasting but the cutting of pet HP almost in half is a huge drawback that in its current form if bugged makes it no different than dimensional storage as a pet with 12k hp won't be lasting long at all.</p></blockquote><p> this is a bug that was never fixed.  reanimate summons an app1 pet not a master pet.</p>

Xillean 07-29-2011 01:05 AM

<p>Need our sda back devs, and prehaps scrape the Reanimate and give our pets back thier power replenish Empower Servant as Xalmat said.</p><p>Just these two changes and we are good to go. I do have to ask what about our class trees? nothing seems different, Not tryign to be greedy I am grateful for all the work I see thats been done a lot of these changes have been needed for years, but really we still have the hydro and ooze? For all that is good please scrap this crap and make it where the endlines grant us a condesened version of those pets abilties.</p><p>Make it something our primary pet can use or something we ourselves can use if we spec for it, put it on a semi long recast if need be 1-3 mins. In thier current form both pets dps like a wet noodle and are never, and I mean NEVER worth casting over our primary pets. Or make it where we can summon them alongside our primaries we are a pet class, why cant we have another guy following us around doing thier thing?</p><p>Im sure theres more for our class trees that could/should be done but the hydro and ooze above all else imo need the biggest help, they suck something needs to be done to make it where we want to cast them or at least consider speccing for them.</p>

Davngr1 07-29-2011 01:07 AM

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>now as far as the casting speed to SDA conversion thing.  i have a question, does the casting speed granted to individual spells in the AA trees modify that one spell to SDA?  or is it exclusive to "casting speed" and also does it work with "hostile spell casting speed"?</p></blockquote><p>I doubt it.</p></blockquote><p>i'd just like to know for sure since there are so many different types of casting speed buffs. hos,ben,sub,spell,abi.</p>

Xalmat 07-29-2011 01:11 AM

<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Just these two changes and we are good to go. I do have to ask what about our class trees? nothing seems different, Not tryign to be greedy I am grateful for all the work I see thats been done a lot of these changes have been needed for years, but really we still have the hydro and ooze? For all that is good please scrap this crap and make it where the endlines grant us a condesened version of those pets abilties.</blockquote><p>At least for Conjurors, so many different AA options were opened up in the Conjuror tree it's pretty silly.</p>

Davngr1 07-29-2011 01:14 AM

<p>yea time after time the conj seem to get the bigger piece of pie :  </p><p>  I HATE CONJ!!!!! </p><p> <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Xillean 07-29-2011 01:15 AM

<p>Necros still have our craptastic temp pet ehancers, didnt they remove the aa for your guys? conjys that is. Not saying we have it bad, I love the new class tree just wish those two pets were worth casting. Cant have it all I suppose, if it came down to we can fix them or work on making the summoner tree tweaked to where it needs to be via the feedback here of course id go with them tweaking the summoner tree, especailly since it seves both of our archtypes.</p>

acctlc 07-29-2011 01:22 AM

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BUGS:A reanimated pets hitpoint pool seems to have gone down drastically from an original summoned pet.  For example, an originally summoned pet  has for me 21,506k hp (spec'd both HP increasing aa's btw).  I can reanimate him once and have the reanimated pet's HP match the original pets.  Then if I hit reanimate again more than a minute later, the pet I have is at 12,744k HP.  Obviously the amazing draw to this aa is pet death can be negated without recasting but the cutting of pet HP almost in half is a huge drawback that in its current form if bugged makes it no different than dimensional storage as a pet with 12k hp won't be lasting long at all.</p></blockquote><p> this is a bug that was never fixed.  reanimate summons an app1 pet not a master pet.</p></blockquote><p>Oh jeez..so the chance that they will fix the aa is probably nil at this point.</p>

Davngr1 07-29-2011 01:31 AM

<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BUGS:A reanimated pets hitpoint pool seems to have gone down drastically from an original summoned pet.  For example, an originally summoned pet  has for me 21,506k hp (spec'd both HP increasing aa's btw).  I can reanimate him once and have the reanimated pet's HP match the original pets.  Then if I hit reanimate again more than a minute later, the pet I have is at 12,744k HP.  Obviously the amazing draw to this aa is pet death can be negated without recasting but the cutting of pet HP almost in half is a huge drawback that in its current form if bugged makes it no different than dimensional storage as a pet with 12k hp won't be lasting long at all.</p></blockquote><p> this is a bug that was never fixed.  reanimate summons an app1 pet not a master pet.</p></blockquote><p>Oh jeez..so the chance that they will fix the aa is probably nil at this point.</p></blockquote><p>heh..</p><p> no one really pushed it since the scout pet is useless tbh :p</p>

Dreemscape 07-29-2011 06:08 AM

<p>Please leave Focused Minion as it is, there is no reason for this huge nerf. Sad to see after getting some loving to the class in the last couple of expansions that the devs now want to start rolling us back. </p>

Cisgo 07-29-2011 06:10 AM

<p>  These new lines are not horrible, I suggest you test them rather than just read them and post complaints.</p><p>   The Str. line AoE is a very nice change. Losing parry I wont lose sleep over it, this hurts PvPers moreso. The new AoE dominates anything that was in this line prior.</p><p>   The entire Agl. line has a purpose (as do all the new AA lines). I am not sure you can say adding 2.4% potency to a raid (over 50 potency overall) is weak. The endline Agl. adds another 5% potency to group (with mage pet), thats 7.4% increase in personal/pet potency, you don't think that will make up some of the loss in SDA? Reducing your groups power by 10% is also a very nice option, it is not horrible. For years summoners cried weak utility, well with this line you have it.</p><p>   The Sta. line allows you to increase your mage pet health by 10%, that translates to a much better Soulburn, again another improved DPS option like the above AoE and potency increases that will help offset the loss of pet SDA.</p><p>   The Wis. line is for all the complaining conjurors since SoF that are ripping aggro with thier insane pet and Elemental Blasts. Seriously a 24 position hate reduction, as well as other hate reducers and there are complaints? The only complaints here should be from the necros who do not need this entire line. This is a nice line/option for anyone have aggro issues.</p><p>   The Int. line is also for those complainers who are pushing for the necro AoE prevent and stating they cannot keep thier pet up with the multiple stoneskins they have at thier disposal (also on a side note, necro pets die also in raids they are not immune to death cause they have Bloodpact). Well, for those that fit this catagory there is Reanimate, a very useful ability (as long as it works properly). In conjunction with Storage this should eliminate future complainers and ppl. having trouble with multi pet deaths. Also, an additional insta cast damage ability is also nice.</p><p>   Please people, test the new abilities rather than just log on a read them. You will find that it might not be as bad as you think and you have alot more options and direction than you had prior to the changes. You may find that the new AoE, 10% more health for Soulburn, 7.4% potency additions doesn't make the DPS loss of SDA look so bad afterall (it is a big hit, but not the end of the world). The devs knew that there would be a backlash when they removed the pet SDA, they are not stupid. I am sure that there is a good reason why they went this route. Like it or not, its a give and take, we were not going to get a bunch of decent AA upgrades without a give back cost. If you like/dislike the changes is another story. But, these are just my opinions, please feel free to test/discuss and agree/disagree.</p>

katalmach 07-29-2011 07:45 AM

<p>Others may well disagree, but I am really sad to see Animist's Bond go. For me it's a very useful spell and an AA that I've always specced into. Just yesterday it saved my life twice! I realize that maybe it's not very useful for raiders/groupers (I wouldn't know, as I don't do either of those anymore), but for my solo/duo playstyle, it's surprisingly helpful. It frequently gets me out of trouble that would otherwise have ended with a revive box on my screen! (I know that us necros have many survival tools like this, but Animist's Bond was one of my favourites, and I really don't think its replacement is going to be useful at all to me).</p><p>I will also find it difficult to accept losing the pet spell double attack and the pet power return. Very sad.</p>

Banditman 07-29-2011 11:14 AM

<p>Losing SDA on our pet is a direct, and massive nerf to Summoner DPS.  Nothing that is being given comes anywhere NEAR to replacing the lost DPS.  Summoners are a DPS class.  That's what they do.  Nothing else they do, nothing that is being added will in any way make up for the loss of their personal DPS.  Summoners were competitive prior to this, not overpowered, but competitive.  This will make them solidly second rate DPS with no redeeming features of note.</p><p>Losing Empower Minion will also impact our DPS, since our pet will now burn through it's power much more quickly, with no personal means to replenish it.  This is huge, since we can't do anything for our pet.  Again, the problem here is that players have many, many ways to recover, replenish and conserve our power.  Our pets do not.  Empower Minion kept the pet on fairly equal footing, and it's lack will constitute a further nerf to the class.</p><p>Unflinching Servant is still just as useless as ever.  For a Conjuror, this AA is ridiculous.  If we want our pet AE immune we can stifle it (so it does no damage *and* spend 5 seconds of our own time casting that) or we can summon it to ourselves, tell it to stop attacking and hope Bubble works.  For a Necro, it's just as stupid, since Necros have a AE avoid for their pet that actually works.  This AA doesn't help either Summoner class.  Make the [Removed for Content] thing immune or don't, but stop putting limitations on it that make the effect useless.</p><p>Frankly, we're far better off with the current AA tree than with this.  Yes, there are some neat ideas here, but no one can get excited about any of them when the overall effect is that Summoners are less effective at their primary role.  You cannot ask people to embrace your changes when they are so clearly a loss in overall effectiveness.</p>

Trensharo 07-29-2011 11:32 AM

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Losing SDA on our pet is a direct, and massive nerf to Summoner DPS.  Nothing that is being given comes anywhere NEAR to replacing the lost DPS.  Summoners are a DPS class.  That's what they do.  Nothing else they do, nothing that is being added will in any way make up for the loss of their personal DPS.  Summoners were competitive prior to this, not overpowered, but competitive.  This will make them solidly second rate DPS with no redeeming features of note.</p><p>Losing Empower Minion will also impact our DPS, since our pet will now burn through it's power much more quickly, with no personal means to replenish it.  This is huge, since we can't do anything for our pet.  Again, the problem here is that players have many, many ways to recover, replenish and conserve our power.  Our pets do not.  Empower Minion kept the pet on fairly equal footing, and it's lack will constitute a further nerf to the class.</p><p>Unflinching Servant is still just as useless as ever.  For a Conjuror, this AA is ridiculous.  If we want our pet AE immune we can stifle it (so it does no damage *and* spend 5 seconds of our own time casting that) or we can summon it to ourselves, tell it to stop attacking and hope Bubble works.  For a Necro, it's just as stupid, since Necros have a AE avoid for their pet that actually works.  This AA doesn't help either Summoner class.  Make the [Removed for Content] thing immune or don't, but stop putting limitations on it that make the effect useless.</p><p>Frankly, we're far better off with the current AA tree than with this.  Yes, there are some neat ideas here, but no one can get excited about any of them when the overall effect is that Summoners are less effective at their primary role.  You cannot ask people to embrace your changes when they are so clearly a loss in overall effectiveness.</p></blockquote><p>Quite frankly true.  The only thing that looks really nice to me is the attention proc, but they could have made our offensive stances useful by just slapping and the effect onto them (via AA i.e. Enhance Antagonize) and be done with it.</p><p>And leaving all the useless AAs in the Necro Class tree...  Just... Fail.</p><p>Seriously...  Shards, Enhance Consumption, Dumbfire Enhancements, Oozecrawler, Enhance:  Bloody Ritual.</p><p>@ SOE:  I'll work for free if you guys need help coming up with non-IMBA, imaginative AAs...</p>

Griffildur 07-29-2011 11:42 AM

<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Quite frankly true.  The only thing that looks really nice to me is the attention proc, but they could have made our offensive stances useful by just slapping and the effect onto them (via AA i.e. Enhance Antagonize) and be done with it.</p><p>And leaving all the useless AAs in the Necro Class tree...  Just... Fail.</p><p>Seriously...  Shards, Enhance Consumption, Dumbfire Enhancements, Oozecrawler, Enhance:  Bloody Ritual.</p><p>@ SOE:  I'll work for free if you guys need help coming up with non-IMBA, imaginative AAs...</p></blockquote><p>They will not accept someone who actually plays the game .... jeez the nerve. If you play the game, write code and OMG test to see if it works, then you're not bad enough for SOE.</p>


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