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-   -   Silent Bans: AFK mercs, and sony's responibility. (https://archive.eq2wire.com//showthread.php?t=517957)

Cloudrat 05-02-2012 12:54 AM

<p>I personally don't care how you level lol  afk , pl by friends , spending huge amounts of plat on collections  whatever,  but when you park your toon where writ or quest mobs spawn and your merc grabs them over and over interfering with the ability to smoothly complete their quests then you have crossed the line.</p><p>I have my doubts that anyone falls asleep in an area with a steady rapid mob spawn.  Leaving a toon in a spot like that is bound to interfere with the gameplay of others and you should be more considerate of others and a timeout courtesy of SOE sounds appropriate to me.</p>

Te'ana 05-02-2012 01:45 AM

<p>As long as someone isn't bothering me I don't care a fig about what other folks are doing. If they interfere with my progress I will report them, otherwise live and let live.</p>

wullailhuit 05-02-2012 03:39 AM

<p><cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Easy tweak to game to give 0 experience for anything killed by merc and you did not even a single autoattack, spell, or combat art. After all, you didn't do anything so don't get rewarded for it.</p><p>Bot players are an entirely different issue. Ban those players I don't care.</p></blockquote><p>This would work , but....we had a simlilar situation with summoner pets killing mobs in a group of mobs before the summoner could cast on it a while back , this caused no XP for the kill and no quest updates either...they had to remove the code that stopped the XP gain when this happened.</p><p>I'm sure pets and mercs share the same code for this , it'd cause more problems than it would solve unfortunately.</p>

Gladiolus 05-02-2012 03:50 AM

<p>It's simple enough for us to get a message after say 5 minutes of inactivity to the effect that the mercenary will become inactive in 60 seconds. Any movement by the player should then cancel it. If there's no activity by the player, the mercenary is not suspended but will stand idle until given new instructions.</p>

Tigress 05-02-2012 06:34 AM

<p><cite>[email protected] Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Complication not required:</p><p>Simple solution: After 1 hour (or 2-3, no more than 3 I'd say) of non-activity of the character, log them out of the game. No more AFK leveling (except for that short span). I've seen people AFK level in the game and once it even prevented me from finishing a quest because the AFK'd character was attacking a targetable Quest NPC. A GM had to intervene and actually move their character.</p><p>Just set a timer of inactivity and have the toon log out. Really, its rather simple. Other games have implemented the same thing where if your character hasn't moved from one spot in X amount of time and the system hasn't read any keystrokes from your computer, you're insta-logged. I mean, how difficult is it for the person to just log back in when they get back from their AFK?</p></blockquote><p>this is a much better solution than the OP's complicated ideas. </p><p>i have fallen asleep playing the game.  sure, it was tradeskill, but i can see how a really tired person or a person on medication or having certain conditions falling asleep while leveling in combat.  also, someone might need to leave computer abruptly if something happened outside the game.  i've had to do that but it didn't last more than an hour.  if someone falls alseep or had a real-life emergency to tend to, it would be an honest mistake and not an exploit. </p><p>if character was auto logged out after an hr, that would solve the problem.  we know this is in the game bc i have been sent to character screen many times when i fell asleep while tradeskilling in my guild hall.  of course, there would be those that would say "hey i can get a free hr every day!" but they could also implement a pattern check.  that would protect the innocent and out the guilty.</p>

Tigress 05-02-2012 06:36 AM

<p><cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's simple enough for us to get a message after say 5 minutes of inactivity to the effect that the mercenary will become inactive in 60 seconds. Any movement by the player should then cancel it. If there's no activity by the player, the mercenary is not suspended but will stand idle until given new instructions.</p></blockquote><p>5 minutes is not enough.  i have gone afk with my merc and been gone 15 min.  i have never been near a mob when i do that bc i have a lack of trust that i won't die but, still.  5 min is way too short.</p>

Flidias 05-02-2012 06:50 AM

<p>If your guildmate (or anyone for that matter) is tired enough to fall asleep while the game is running, they should log out and go to bed.</p><p>see, problem solved with no GM involvement. Simples. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

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SOE-MOD-02 05-02-2012 10:13 AM

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Sinnous 05-02-2012 10:47 AM

<p>I didn't even know this was a bannable offense...I have fallen asleep or went to eat dinner or something while being near some respawning mobs....hope I don't get banned for not knowing. Is there a time limit or something that gets you a time out?</p>

Elorah 05-02-2012 11:08 AM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't even know this was a bannable offense...I have fallen asleep or went to eat dinner or something while being near some respawning mobs....hope I don't get banned for not knowing. Is there a time limit or something that gets you a time out?</p></blockquote><p>Were you somehow killing these mobs while AFK?  That is a bannable offense.  If you were AFK and not killing mobs, then you are fine.</p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 11:14 AM

<p>Well I fall asleep while harvesting in places and my merc basically kills any roamers that come near me. Didn't know that afk xping was bannable because it is allowed in most other games and I hadn't heard from anyone in game telling me to stop. One night I fell asleep at like 2 in the morning and when I woke up I had gained a whole 2yellow.</p>

Levatino 05-02-2012 11:16 AM

<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On the last double xp weekend, I was getting aa points with my level 10 toon and a merc in Halas area.  During the weekend I would go put a load of laundry in the washer or dryer, etc.    I would move my toon and merc over to a corner away from most of the mobs but some would wander over or repop there sometimes while I was gone.  </p><p>I would have hated to have gotten banned for something like that.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Easy solution, dispend merc for the time you're away, longer then 2 minutes gone then you can let him return with one click.. </span></p>

Lempo 05-02-2012 11:46 AM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well I fall asleep while harvesting in places and my merc basically kills any roamers that come near me. Didn't know that afk xping was bannable because it is allowed in most other games and I hadn't heard from anyone in game telling me to stop. One night I fell asleep at like 2 in the morning and when I woke up I had gained a whole 2yellow.</p></blockquote><p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I didn't even know this was a bannable offense...I have fallen asleep or went to eat dinner or something while being near some respawning mobs....hope I don't get banned for not knowing. Is there a time limit or something that gets you a time out?</p></blockquote><p>Actually you SHOULD have known you clicked a box and clicked accept saying that you had read, understood and agreed to the terms and conditions which is by default an acceptance of the AUP.</p><p>You will not get banned for an isolated incident, you will get a warning at worst. Repeat offenders will get a short ban, if they continue to refuse to play by the rules they will be banned for a longer period, and possibly, eventually get a lifetime ban. Do not believe the hype the OP is stating, while he may be honestly offering what he believes are reasonable suggestions as alternatives (they have potential side effects that will cause larger problems), and his 'guildie' may have TOLD him "No, I never did it before and then BAM" he doesn't have the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I honestly don't believe this was a 'guildie' because of all of the justifications, and why it should be ok because SOE does X therefore people are encouraged to do Y.</p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 11:49 AM

<p>So it says in the updated ToS to not afk with your merc active?</p>

Elorah 05-02-2012 11:52 AM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So it says in the updated ToS to not afk with your merc active?</p></blockquote><p>I believe that it falls in line with 3rd party hacks that allow you to kill/harvest or craft while not being at your keyboard.  That was how it was before the mercenaries went live and summoners had to be careful not to have their pet aggro mobs while the summoner was away.</p>

Lempo 05-02-2012 11:55 AM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So it says in the updated ToS to not afk with your merc active?</p></blockquote><p>It doesn't need to AFK leveling, is covered in there, they do not need to cover every possible way that you can find to angle shoot the situation to where you think it is acceptable.</p><p>This is not a 4th grade class room, but if it were and the teacher told you to stop touching Jill and then you begin poking her with a ruler you are old enough to know better.</p><p>This is nothing more than an issue of people that want to angle shoot and mince words and bend and twist rules. It is one thing to AFK with your merc active, and it is another entirely to AFK in a place where a pack of mobs spawn and site there for hours on end.</p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 11:56 AM

<p>But thats not 3rd party....thats a 1st party in game tool. I'm not saying I do this often or even care, just trying to figure out what makes this against the rules. I understand the instances where someone pops a merc next to a quest mob or in a good grinding spot and just continously disrupts other players experience. But how does me being at the keyboard or not and still logged in with the Merc that I pay for to protect me(especially while i'm afk for 10 minutes) against ToS. Again, I don't care I just want clarification.</p><p>*And don't give me the our government does it all the time crap without telling us why. Just saying...anytime i've ever gotten in trouble(which has been maybe 1 speeding ticket and a no seatbelt violation) I knew quite well I could get in trouble for what I was doing.*<---just adding that becuase I saw someone on page one going on about that.</p>

Raknid 05-02-2012 11:58 AM

<p>Unattended gameplay has never been allowed.</p>

Raknid 05-02-2012 12:01 PM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But thats not 3rd party....thats a 1st party in game tool. I'm not saying I do this often or even care, just trying to figure out what makes this against the rules. I understand the instances where someone pops a merc next to a quest mob or in a good grinding spot and just continously disrupts other players experience. But how does me being at the keyboard or not and still logged in with the Merc that I pay for to protect me(especially while i'm afk for 10 minutes) against ToS. Again, I don't care I just want clarification.</p><p>*And don't give me the our government does it all the time crap without telling us why. Just saying...anytime i've ever gotten in trouble(which has been maybe 1 speeding ticket and a no seatbelt violation) I knew quite well I could get in trouble for what I was doing.*<---just adding that becuase I saw someone on page one going on about that.</p></blockquote><p>Here. Now you know and can't come complain if you get tossed out on your rationalizing tootie.</p><p><a href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17502/kw/unattended%20gameplay/p/20/session/L3RpbWUvMTMzNTk3MDgxMS9zaWQvWHlSX2M2WGs%3D">http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/ans...vWHlSX2M2WGs%3D</a></p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 12:03 PM

<p>Lol...like I said. I ultimately don't care because I don't do it. My one level 90 got that way from me soloing my way to it. Just trying to get some clarification so I know why. Knowledge is power my friend.</p>

Gravy 05-02-2012 12:04 PM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So it says in the updated ToS to not afk with your merc active?</p></blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17502" target="_blank">http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/ans...tail/a_id/17502</a></p><h1>[EQ2] Gaining Experience while AFK</h1> <div>Answer ID 17502   |    Published 06/19/2007 02:08 PM   |    Updated 03/28/2012 10:46 AM</div> <p align="center"><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><strong><img src="http://www.station.sony.com/support/kb/EQ2/logo.png" border="0" /></strong></span></p> <p align="center"><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><strong>Gaining Experience while AFK</strong></span></p><p>Is it OK to gain exp while AFK?  No.   By taking advantage of (or exploiting) a game mechanic to advance a character with no input by the player, you are gaining an unfair advantage over others and are in violation of SOE policies.  Gaining experience while you are not at the keyboard is not intended gameplay and can result in disciplinary action taken upon your account.  Disciplinary action for unattended game play can include, but is not limited to; account warning, account suspension, and permanent account cancellation (ban).  If you are playing a pet class or have a mercenary and need to go AFK for an extended period of time (i.e. longer then a few moments), please make sure you are in a safe area away from where agro mobs wander or spawn. Please review the EverQuest II Rules of Conduct which includes the following: 12. You will not exploit any bug in EverQuest II and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in game), either directly or through public posting, to any other user of EverQuest II. You will promptly report any such bug via the in-game "/bug" command. You may also report any such bugs/exploits by submitting a customer service help ticket through our in-game petition process.</p><p>/thread</p>

Lempo 05-02-2012 12:05 PM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But thats not 3rd party....thats a 1st party in game tool. I'm not saying I do this often or even care, just trying to figure out what makes this against the rules. I understand the instances where someone pops a merc next to a quest mob or in a good grinding spot and just continously disrupts other players experience. But how does me being at the keyboard or not and still logged in with the Merc that I pay for to protect me(especially while i'm afk for 10 minutes) against ToS. Again, I don't care I just want clarification.</p><p>*And don't give me the our government does it all the time crap without telling us why. Just saying...anytime i've ever gotten in trouble(which has been maybe 1 speeding ticket and a no seatbelt violation) I knew quite well I could get in trouble for what I was doing.*<---just adding that becuase I saw someone on page one going on about that.</p></blockquote><p>Exactly what I mean about twisting, and bending and angle shooting, you are trying to find some way to put this out there to where someone will say well that might be ok. How much more clarification do you want and who do you want it from? Are you going to only take it form a red name that you are in fact NOT ALLOWED to AFK level? IT should be pretty clear to you by now fromt he responses of various people that you can't, yet your persist while you say you "don't do it often or even care" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> Then try to justify it saying I pay him to protect me.</p><p>Let me be clear if you do this and are AFK for 10 minutes no one is going to notice more than likely, unless you park yourself in a really obnoxious spot, and by the time there is a response to it, you will be gone, or back before any action was taken in the first place.</p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 12:06 PM

<p>And just to be clear, the ToS clause that "prevents" this from being ok says you shall not exploit a bug. How is the intended mechanic of the way the Merc or Pet was programmed exploiting a bug...I do software programming and a "bug" is something that is a problem and an unintended software hiccup. They know that they designed it this way. I just propose they do things like suspend the merc after 30 minutes of complete inactivity. Again I don't care but that doesn't seem that unreasonable to prevent this; Because are they really catching everyone who does it or just those who people file /petition on.</p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 12:10 PM

<p>I really don't understand why you are all getting so bent out of shape. Isn't a forum a place to gather and discuss things? Just getting answers to questions people. Calm down lol.</p>

Gravy 05-02-2012 12:11 PM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And just to be clear, the ToS clause that "prevents" this from being ok says you shall not exploit a bug. How is the intended mechanic....</p></blockquote><p>The intended mechanic is that you gain XP while YOU do something.</p><p>If you gain XP and you're not doing anything you are exploiting the system.</p><p>Exploiting the system is a bannable offense.</p><p>Are you arguing the <em>intention</em> of the EQ2 programmers was players would be able to gain XP while not interacting with the system?</p>

Lempo 05-02-2012 12:12 PM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And just to be clear, the ToS clause that "prevents" this from being ok says you shall not exploit a bug. How is the intended mechanic of the way the Merc or Pet was programmed exploiting a bug...I do software programming and a "bug" is something that is a problem and an unintended software hiccup. They know that they designed it this way. I just propose they do things like suspend the merc after 30 minutes of complete inactivity. Again I don't care but that doesn't seem that unreasonable to prevent this; Because are they really catching everyone who does it or just those who people file /petition on.</p></blockquote><p>Back to the class room... <sigh></p><p>Don't worry about who does what and who gets caught and doesn't get caught, play by the rules and you have nothing to worry about.</p><p><span style="font-size: large;"><strong>By taking advantage of (or exploiting) a game mechanic to advance a character with no input by the player</strong></span></p><p>Do you see ANYTHING  that says "BUG" in the above?</p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 12:13 PM

<p>Actually to be clear, the blurb above  the actual ToS is a clarification not actually in the ToS that you agree too. Again can anyone explain to why you are all getting so bent out of shape? Relax and be friendly. </p>

Sinnous 05-02-2012 12:16 PM

<p>And no I am arguing that they programmed it knowing that it would work that way and not putting in the logic in the code to do things that prevent it from being used. I use my merc as a pet on my Assassin. Why should an Assassin have a pet merc? Just basically having fun discussing things and you are all freaking out about it.</p>

Lempo 05-02-2012 12:33 PM

<p><cite>Sinnous wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And no I am arguing that they programmed it knowing that it would work that way and not putting in the logic in the code to do things that prevent it from being used. I use my merc as a pet on my Assassin. Why should an Assassin have a pet merc? Just basically having fun discussing things and you are all freaking out about it.</p></blockquote><p>By putting logic in the code that prevents it from being used in the manner that you and other apparently want to be allowed to abuse it by, it causes other side effects, one has been discussed here.</p><p>There is nothing wrong with the mechanic it is working fine as it is, people whether they are just a tad on the slow side, extremely stubborn, or maybe even compeltely illiterate are the problem.</p><p>There are many, MANY far more important things that the devs have to work on, than dealing with this foolishness.</p><p>You are not just having fun discussing things, you are angle shooting every way you can to try and come up with an acceptable scenario, and if you are not doing that then you are trolling, and I've fed you enough if that is the case. So carry on.</p><p>Maybe you can try to justify it by actually being at the keyboard whenever you gain a level or AA point next, and if you get caught or get a warning you can say "Yeah, but I was AT the keyboard when I gained a level, so I wasn't <em>really </em>AFK leveling, because I sat down right before I gained a level and went away again <strong>AFTER</strong>.</p>


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