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-   -   Wild beating does not work in PvP (https://archive.eq2wire.com//showthread.php?t=480511)

Greggthegrmreapr 06-07-2010 09:46 PM

<p><span >Olihin,<p>Would it be possible to get this AA ability to work in PvP with the taunt effect?  Bruisers finally get a good abilty for AE aggro control, and it does not work in PvP, but other tanks can constantly keep you on them or have you snapped back to them instantly if you hit one of their allies.</p><p>(I posted the same thing in the Bruiser forums, but I thought about it and have never seen you post there...  Please delete that one)</p></span></p>

Grimfort 06-08-2010 04:37 AM

<p>The SK Grave Sacrament is the same, its the only AE threat (excluding DM which doesn't state it) that works in pve but not pvp.</p><p>Don't see a change coming there tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

Greggthegrmreapr 06-08-2010 10:51 AM

<p><cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The SK Grave Sacrament is the same, its the only AE threat (excluding DM which doesn't state it) that works in pve but not pvp.</p><p>Don't see a change coming there tho <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</p></blockquote><p>With the staggering ways that an SK is OP, they don't need to worry about one spell.  They actually changed GS to make it not work in PvP because it was absurdly powerful.  Bruisers on the other hand have 2 ways to control more than one encounter.  Both require the use of AA points to get them.  One is just a taunt added onto one of our blue aoe ( and requires the use of Defensive stance)  The other requires 12 points to get the new SF end line for the Bruiser tree.</p><p>Actually, I just checked it, and neither of these abilities have the taunt effect in PvP.  Please fix this, or give us a valid reason why they don't work.  You give bruisers a lot of things that actually make us able to tank effectively, then screw us in the PvP realm of it.</p>

Grimfort 06-08-2010 11:00 AM

<p>Maybe I didn't make my point clear, neither SK nor Brusiers have this ability, without trying the other classes myself, maybe we are not ment to have an AOE taunt in pvp, just target/encounter.</p>

Greggthegrmreapr 06-09-2010 09:53 AM

<p>And Sk's have a very good way to keep out of encounter aggro.  It's called your mythical.  Every lifetap you cast can force anyone they hit to target you.  Which works out of encounter as well.</p>

alabama 06-10-2010 12:51 PM

<p>any responce on this yet from dev?</p>

Edavi 06-10-2010 12:56 PM

<p>Id like to point out that Wild Beating does not work in PVP, and neither does AA enhanced beatdown.  You can add a taunt to Beatdown and that taunt does not work in PVP.</p><p>It would be nice if they were not wasted AA's.</p>

Greggthegrmreapr 06-10-2010 03:14 PM

<p>Yeah.  After the first post, I did some testing, and neither of these AA lines do not work in PvP.  Though they are wonderful when tanking in PvE.</p><p>Please fix this.</p>

Brynhild 06-10-2010 05:19 PM

<p>The only tank that EVERY SINGLE AA for threat works in PVP is a berserker.</p><p>Guardians do pretty well too but berserkers are absolutely insane for taunts. I have several tank classes and a lot of their taunts don't do anything when you check the pvp box, except zerkers :/</p>

Yonaton 06-10-2010 05:21 PM

<p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And Sk's have a very good way to keep out of encounter aggro.  It's called your mythical.  Every lifetap you cast can force anyone they hit to target you.  Which works out of encounter as well.</p></blockquote><p>And your class has three DI's.</p><p>I don't see much difference tbh. Brawler survivability is rediculous,and the fd/target lock exploit has been around forever and works on an entire group.</p><p> And that's not telling anyone how to do it,it's saying it's long past time that crap was fixed.</p>

Greggthegrmreapr 06-10-2010 05:57 PM

<p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And Sk's have a very good way to keep out of encounter aggro.  It's called your mythical.  Every lifetap you cast can force anyone they hit to target you.  Which works out of encounter as well.</p></blockquote><p>And your class has three DI's.</p><p>I don't see much difference tbh. Brawler survivability is rediculous,and the fd/target lock exploit has been around forever and works on an entire group.</p><p> And that's not telling anyone how to do it,it's saying it's long past time that crap was fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Actually it isn't an exploit.  It does exactly as it is supposed to.  It is the same as a scout or mage or priest deaggro where you can not target something for a few seconds.</p><p>Something that works exactly as it was designed to isn't an exploit.  The taunt forces the target onto the brawler and the FD clears it.  So then a tank having the averted eyes ring is also an exploit according to what you say.  The tank taunts and then that ring procs and the target is cleared and unable to get a new one for a few seconds.</p>

Taldier 06-10-2010 06:02 PM

<p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>[email protected] wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And Sk's have a very good way to keep out of encounter aggro.  It's called your mythical.  Every lifetap you cast can force anyone they hit to target you.  Which works out of encounter as well.</p></blockquote><p>And your class has three DI's.</p><p>I don't see much difference tbh. Brawler survivability is rediculous,and the fd/target lock exploit has been around forever and works on an entire group.</p><p> And that's not telling anyone how to do it,it's saying it's long past time that crap was fixed.</p></blockquote><p>That isnt an exploit lol, its the way the targeting mechanics have been since release.  Nor is it related specifically to fd.</p><p>I suggest you try coordinating with your tank to cast your detarget on the same target he rescues.  The combination of a taunt/detarget effect on the same target is no different from any deagro that has a pvp duration.  It happens all the time fighting dps classes that have deagro effects with a duration.</p>

Yonaton 06-10-2010 08:45 PM

<p>Excuse please,if I don't take the two brawler's word for it.</p><p>If you're talking averted eyes proc,or the swashbuckler ability to detaunt(which has no duration as the bruiser tauntlock),it doesn't lock target and leave you open to nothing.</p><p>And I'm talking SPECIFICALLY as it relates to FD. Tauntlock a group,then fd forcing a drop target. Unless you pot or use some other clicky,you're stuck targeting nothing. It's not a change of targets,it's not a prevention of changing targets. It's a simple drop target to nothing with no way to reaquire without the taunt finally wearing off(if pots and cures are down) or popping one.</p><p>It's not single target either,as you well know. Group tauntlock/fd. Scout/Mage deaggro doesn't affect an entire group either. So that's out the window as well. And it wasn't a big deal up to the last couple years on Vox. Now every group must have a bruiser who fd's/tauntlocks because it's specifically an easy button. And no,it's not "intended",unless Sony thinks that being able to taunt lock an entire group every 5 seconds and deaggro is "intended".</p>

Darry 06-11-2010 01:42 AM

<p>You can cure it by the way.</p><p>Taunt/FD is not an exploit.</p>

Yonaton 06-11-2010 06:27 AM

<p>LTR.</p><p>I said above what you said,with the caveat that pots,and clickies do not come back as fast as the bruiser fd/tauntlock is used. Perhaps it's not an exploit. Perhaps it's a broken game mechanic. Either way,it's bs.</p><p>And why are there have only been brawlers so hip to defend it,if it's not something messed up? Can you tell me that Kastuzo?</p>

Greggthegrmreapr 06-11-2010 08:18 AM

<p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LTR.</p><p>I said above what you said,with the caveat that pots,and clickies do not come back as fast as the bruiser fd/tauntlock is used. Perhaps it's not an exploit. Perhaps it's a broken game mechanic. Either way,it's bs.</p><p>And why are there have only been brawlers so hip to defend it,if it's not something messed up? Can you tell me that Kastuzo?</p></blockquote><p>Because the topic was about brawlers, so not everyone is going to read it.</p>

alabama 06-11-2010 11:59 AM

<p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LTR.</p><p>I said above what you said,with the caveat that pots,and clickies do not come back as fast as the bruiser fd/tauntlock is used. Perhaps it's not an exploit. Perhaps it's a broken game mechanic. Either way,it's bs.</p><p>And why are there have only been brawlers so hip to defend it,if it's not something messed up? Can you tell me that Kastuzo?</p><p><span style="font-size: small; color: #ff0000;">Noone cares about the issue because its not an exploit so go back to your corner and crymore.</span></p></blockquote><p>LTNotsuck.</p><p>Its not an exploit or a broken mechanic.</p><p>Now stop derailing the thread. Its about our ae taunts not working in pvp and bg's.</p><p>If you want to make another nerf brawlers blubie tearfest post start your own topic.</p>

Taldier 06-11-2010 01:21 PM

<p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Excuse please,if I don't take the two brawler's word for it.</p><p>If you're talking averted eyes proc,or the swashbuckler ability to detaunt(which has no duration as the bruiser tauntlock),it doesn't lock target and leave you open to nothing.</p><p>And I'm talking SPECIFICALLY as it relates to FD. Tauntlock a group,then fd forcing a drop target. Unless you pot or use some other clicky,you're stuck targeting nothing. It's not a change of targets,it's not a prevention of changing targets. It's a simple drop target to nothing with no way to reaquire without the taunt finally wearing off(if pots and cures are down) or popping one.</p><p>It's not single target either,as you well know. Group tauntlock/fd. Scout/Mage deaggro doesn't affect an entire group either. So that's out the window as well. And it wasn't a big deal up to the last couple years on Vox. Now every group must have a bruiser who fd's/tauntlocks because it's specifically an easy button. And no,it's not "intended",unless Sony thinks that being able to taunt lock an entire group every 5 seconds and deaggro is "intended".</p></blockquote><p>I know your detaunt in and of itself has no duration.  Neither does fd.  They are the exact same effect.  You are not talking specifically about fd because the only difference between fd and any other no duration detarget effect is that it effects multiple targets.</p><p>This is like a wizard saying "we are not talking about ice comet here everyone, only rift".</p><p>The duration comes in when the target is already under the effect of a taunt effect before a detaunt is applied.  This is not in any way unique to fd.</p><p>Brawlers get fewer ways hold pvp agro then any of the other tank classes.  We have no reactive upon being hit.  We have absolutely no out of encounter hate effects in pvp.  We do not force everything in the zone thats engaged with our group to target us every time we use an ability.</p><p>We get the one encounter taunt that all the other tanks have and bruisers get d&c, which is identical to the group taunt (except we have to put aa into it for it to even hit the entire encounter) on an over 1 min recast.</p><p>But "oh no, he can taunt 1 single encounter to nothing for 3 seconds, change FD!"</p><p>It isnt even remotely unique to brawlers, an sk wearing the shifting hoop is going to do this 10% of the time anyone hits him.  If a guard taunts you and you do an aoe and hit someone with a detaunt proc it WILL happen.  If you are thoughtsnapped and a scout detaunts you it WILL happen.</p><p>IT IS NOT FD.  It is an effect that HAS ALWAYS OCCURED when you combine ANY detaunt with ANY taunt effect.</p><p>And even our regular encounter taunt wouldnt come up under 10 seconds even if you had 100% reuse so try again with your fail bs.</p>

Darry 06-11-2010 01:29 PM

<p>I could say every rogue that uses their deagro proc in PvP is using a broken PvP mechanic (no eligible target if you're immune to target change) but it's funny that you bring up my bruiser I don't even PvP with <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Corydonn 06-11-2010 01:58 PM

<p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And why are there have only been brawlers so hip to defend it,if it's not something messed up? Can you tell me that Kastuzo?</p></blockquote><p>I can do the same if not more damage with taunts on my tank specced brigand. I don't think having Wild Beating or Beatdown AA with a taunt component would actually help much or at all since the range on these abilities are so short you are lucky to hit a single target with them.</p>

Yonaton 06-11-2010 06:28 PM

<p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LTR.</p><p>I said above what you said,with the caveat that pots,and clickies do not come back as fast as the bruiser fd/tauntlock is used. Perhaps it's not an exploit. Perhaps it's a broken game mechanic. Either way,it's bs.</p><p>And why are there have only been brawlers so hip to defend it,if it's not something messed up? Can you tell me that Kastuzo?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: small;">Noone cares about the issue because its not an exploit so go back to your corner and crymore.</span></p></blockquote><p>LTNotsuck.</p><p>Its not an exploit or a broken mechanic.</p><p>Now stop derailing the thread. Its about our ae taunts not working in pvp and bg's.</p><p>If you want to make another nerf brawlers blubie tearfest post start your own topic.</p></blockquote><p>Divide and Conquer doesn't work in bgs?</p><p>LAWL.</p><p>Learn not to obscure the truth. I've NEVER fought a bruiser who didn't use dnc+fd. It's their one-trick pony in pvp. If it's so intended,how does it affect pve mob,eh? What,it DOESN'T? Oh,that's right lol. As soon as you fd the mob resets. It isn't standing there with a ten second lock and no target,waiting on pots or clickies to come back up.</p><p>And the thread started as a complaint about aoe taunts,then went straight into a cryfest about some other class. What did that class even have to do with it? Cry less yourselves. It's a pvp forum,not a Brawler specific forum.</p><p>Point is,everyone takes a nerf at some point. Everybody has something broken in their class. My class took a nerf not too long ago that removed one of our class defining abilities. So what? I still BG and pvp fine. Brawlers aren't broken. They are working as intended,right?</p>

Yonaton 06-11-2010 06:35 PM

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And why are there have only been brawlers so hip to defend it,if it's not something messed up? Can you tell me that Kastuzo?</p></blockquote><p>I can do the same if not more damage with taunts on my tank specced brigand. I don't think having Wild Beating or Beatdown AA with a taunt component would actually help much or at all since the range on these abilities are so short you are lucky to hit a single target with them.</p></blockquote><p>I don't doubt you can match or exceed the dmg on a brig Cory. And I've noticed the swear line + averted eyes proc showing up more. My only thing is it doesn't affect half a target encounter,it also doesn't have the duration. I understand it's a broken thing,wild beating not working. But it's not game breaking. I've been in BG's with you,and seen you top the dmg over high end t1 dps classes,simply on survivability. Admirable,and kudos to you man.</p>

Corydonn 06-11-2010 06:38 PM

<p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And why are there have only been brawlers so hip to defend it,if it's not something messed up? Can you tell me that Kastuzo?</p></blockquote><p>I can do the same if not more damage with taunts on my tank specced brigand. I don't think having Wild Beating or Beatdown AA with a taunt component would actually help much or at all since the range on these abilities are so short you are lucky to hit a single target with them.</p></blockquote><p>I don't doubt you can match or exceed the dmg on a brig Cory. And I've noticed the swear line + averted eyes proc showing up more. My only thing is it doesn't affect half a target encounter,it also doesn't have the duration. I understand it's a broken thing,wild beating not working. But it's not game breaking. I've been in BG's with you,and seen you top the dmg over high end t1 dps classes,simply on survivability. Admirable,and kudos to you man.</p></blockquote><p>Any type of stealthing clears targets so after a group taunt you can do the same detarget effect on a brigand. I actually enjoy the brigand just a much because of the dispels and other tricks it has.</p>


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